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Topic:  Sporting News: MAC commissioner defends scheduling

Topic:  Sporting News: MAC commissioner defends scheduling
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  Sporting News: MAC commissioner defends scheduling
   Posted: 3/15/2017 12:54:34 PM 

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/news/mac-commis...
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OhioStunter
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sporting News: MAC commissioner defends scheduling
   Posted: 3/15/2017 1:39:19 PM 
I can't disagree with the logic of his explanation.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sporting News: MAC commissioner defends scheduling
   Posted: 3/15/2017 2:15:43 PM 
I think he overstates the value of what he calls exposure. Western got a coach that got total buy-in from his team. There won't be another undefeated MAC team in the next five years.
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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sporting News: MAC commissioner defends scheduling
   Posted: 3/15/2017 2:49:57 PM 
I would love to know what it costs the teams/communities to have these weekday games. Lost gate and concession revenue for the teams, and lost revenue big time for Athens businesses, etc.

This thing works as long as teams can still sell season tickets to fans who can't attend games mid-week.

Has the MAC gotten any better as the result of these mid-week games or it is all about the money? The MAC does get better exposure, but having stadiums with 2-3 thousand fans doesn't do much in raising the profile of the league in my opinion. It comes across as really bush league.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sporting News: MAC commissioner defends scheduling
   Posted: 3/15/2017 3:27:58 PM 
colobobcat66 wrote:
I would love to know what it costs the teams/communities to have these weekday games. Lost gate and concession revenue for the teams, and lost revenue big time for Athens businesses, etc.

This thing works as long as teams can still sell season tickets to fans who can't attend games mid-week.

Has the MAC gotten any better as the result of these mid-week games or it is all about the money? The MAC does get better exposure, but having stadiums with 2-3 thousand fans doesn't do much in raising the profile of the league in my opinion. It comes across as really bush league.


All good questions that would be interesting to know answers to. At the end of the day, mid-week MACtion has been great for the league. I still think it's time to modify it. Any game that isn't making it onto ESPN, ESPN2, or ESPNU should be played on a typical Saturday. ESPN3, while I love it for college basketball, isn't giving real "exposure" to anyone except current fans and alumni. People in Florida aren't flipping on ESPN3 and saying, gee, let's watch the third best MAC game tonight when their cable network has it on two other channels already. Maybe I'm mistaken, but that's my feeling on the ESPN3 vs cable games.
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Maryland Bobcat
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Location: Annapolis, MD
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sporting News: MAC commissioner defends scheduling
   Posted: 3/15/2017 5:17:02 PM 
Well if there was ever any question the most important thing to this sport is that article summed it up. So on one hand mid-major programs complain about the power and the influence of money at the P5 level, yet turn around and basically let it control every action at our level. We’re no better by selling ourselves out simply for a paycheck.

For the record I think it’s very short-cited. Do people tune in because there’s no other games on? Sure, I think that’s valid, but will they continue to tune in to watch games when absolutely nobody is in the stadium? I’m not sure about that. I think long-term viewers will ultimately find that boring - without fans it turns something possibly compelling into ho-hum television. 5-10 years ago watching a mid-major game on tv was compelling because the fans showed up in droves to have a big game on tv. Now there’s nothing special about it, and attendance at these games continues to dwindle. Think where we were a few years ago for that blackout game vs Temple (packed house), then look at our games last year. They are playing with fire by alienating entire fan bases. Students that don’t go to games (and to be fair some weeknights it’s tough depending on exam and vacation schedules and cold weather) won't go on to become future loyal supporters. Not to mention young alumni coming back to visit on weekends those first couple of years out. Also, fans that have to travel a decent distance, such as myself, never can see a key conference home game in person. We’re usually stuck going to see a Labor Day weekend matchup vs Gardner-Webb or trying to battle the crowds and costs of Homecoming. They’re turning off key segments of supporters leaving only the local community, and season ticket holders within an hour’s drive to prop up ticket sales. I was fortunate enough to attend during the Grobe era when students really started tailgating and attending in large numbers for the first time. Great memories of those fall Saturdays!

Last Edited: 3/15/2017 5:17:25 PM by Maryland Bobcat
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sporting News: MAC commissioner defends scheduling
   Posted: 3/15/2017 6:45:50 PM 
Maryland Bobcat wrote:
Well if there was ever any question the most important thing to this sport is that article summed it up. So on one hand mid-major programs complain about the power and the influence of money at the P5 level, yet turn around and basically let it control every action at our level. We’re no better by selling ourselves out simply for a paycheck.

For the record I think it’s very short-cited. Do people tune in because there’s no other games on? Sure, I think that’s valid, but will they continue to tune in to watch games when absolutely nobody is in the stadium? I’m not sure about that. I think long-term viewers will ultimately find that boring - without fans it turns something possibly compelling into ho-hum television. 5-10 years ago watching a mid-major game on tv was compelling because the fans showed up in droves to have a big game on tv. Now there’s nothing special about it, and attendance at these games continues to dwindle. Think where we were a few years ago for that blackout game vs Temple (packed house), then look at our games last year. They are playing with fire by alienating entire fan bases. Students that don’t go to games (and to be fair some weeknights it’s tough depending on exam and vacation schedules and cold weather) won't go on to become future loyal supporters. Not to mention young alumni coming back to visit on weekends those first couple of years out. Also, fans that have to travel a decent distance, such as myself, never can see a key conference home game in person. We’re usually stuck going to see a Labor Day weekend matchup vs Gardner-Webb or trying to battle the crowds and costs of Homecoming. They’re turning off key segments of supporters leaving only the local community, and season ticket holders within an hour’s drive to prop up ticket sales. I was fortunate enough to attend during the Grobe era when students really started tailgating and attending in large numbers for the first time. Great memories of those fall Saturdays!


MD,you nailed it. I live right here in town, have seats on the 50 and access to the end zone tent but when I can watch it from the comfort of my home on a weekday night when it's cold or rainy, I do. Weekends are the way to go. And has anyone talked about the number of classes being missed?
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sporting News: MAC commissioner defends scheduling
   Posted: 3/15/2017 6:57:00 PM 
colobobcat66 wrote:
I would love to know what it costs the teams/communities to have these weekday games. Lost gate and concession revenue for the teams, and lost revenue big time for Athens businesses, etc....

It seems like Alan posted something a few years back that come study had shown that each Saturday home game was worth about $.5 million to the Athens business community. I've always thought that it was more than a coincidence that NIU's attendance slide began when they started turning their back on the DeKalb business community and scheduling big games at Soldier field.

If a Saturday game is worth $.5 million, I'd guess a weekday game is worth $.1 million, so the Athens business community loses $.8 million as a result of losing two Saturday home games. Ohio, meanwhile, does get about $.7 million for the TV appearance. They also lose perhaps 5,000 a game in paid attendance, get less per ticket, and less in concessions. Probably Ohio losses $.1 million per game, or $.2 million for the season from the midweek games, so they are net $.5 to the positive in cash flow. Logically that means $.5 million less that needs to be assessed in fees, so more money in the pockets of students, some of which, in turn, ends up back in the business community. Regardless, Ohio is a little better off, and the business community is significantly worse off.

All this is moot, though. The TV contract runs until the 2026 season.

Last Edited: 3/15/2017 6:58:19 PM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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CA Bobcat
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Location: San Ramon, CA
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sporting News: MAC commissioner defends scheduling
   Posted: 3/15/2017 7:38:20 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Maryland Bobcat wrote:
Well if there was ever any question the most important thing to this sport is that article summed it up. So on one hand mid-major programs complain about the power and the influence of money at the P5 level, yet turn around and basically let it control every action at our level. We’re no better by selling ourselves out simply for a paycheck.

For the record I think it’s very short-cited. Do people tune in because there’s no other games on? Sure, I think that’s valid, but will they continue to tune in to watch games when absolutely nobody is in the stadium? I’m not sure about that. I think long-term viewers will ultimately find that boring - without fans it turns something possibly compelling into ho-hum television. 5-10 years ago watching a mid-major game on tv was compelling because the fans showed up in droves to have a big game on tv. Now there’s nothing special about it, and attendance at these games continues to dwindle. Think where we were a few years ago for that blackout game vs Temple (packed house), then look at our games last year. They are playing with fire by alienating entire fan bases. Students that don’t go to games (and to be fair some weeknights it’s tough depending on exam and vacation schedules and cold weather) won't go on to become future loyal supporters. Not to mention young alumni coming back to visit on weekends those first couple of years out. Also, fans that have to travel a decent distance, such as myself, never can see a key conference home game in person. We’re usually stuck going to see a Labor Day weekend matchup vs Gardner-Webb or trying to battle the crowds and costs of Homecoming. They’re turning off key segments of supporters leaving only the local community, and season ticket holders within an hour’s drive to prop up ticket sales. I was fortunate enough to attend during the Grobe era when students really started tailgating and attending in large numbers for the first time. Great memories of those fall Saturdays!


MD,you nailed it. I live right here in town, have seats on the 50 and access to the end zone tent but when I can watch it from the comfort of my home on a weekday night when it's cold or rainy, I do. Weekends are the way to go. And has anyone talked about the number of classes being missed?


Um, what if it's cold and rainy on a weekend?
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MonroeClassmate
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sporting News: MAC commissioner defends scheduling
   Posted: 3/15/2017 8:27:15 PM 
One gripe: rivals getting a crappy game.

Look at the Zips. Their two biggest conference draws, Kent and OHIO are on week nights in November. Total BS. And few fans in the stands when there may have been many on a balmy Saturday in September/October.

If the two November Akron opponents were low draw games then there is a benefit for the exposure. Taking revenue away from the Zips by scheduling the way they did is indefensible.
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sporting News: MAC commissioner defends scheduling
   Posted: 3/15/2017 8:51:37 PM 
I wonder whether the mid-week November games help boost attendance for the Sept/Oct Saturday games. People who would've attended a Nov game because of the opposing team may decide to go to an earlier game instead because they can't make a mid-week game.

Also, I think the MAC athletics offices should be more flexible with season ticket packages. Should offer a package of Saturday-only games or maybe let fans buy a package of something like any four home games. Why make them pay for games they can't go to or give away (other than to pad the attendance figures).

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
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Location: Ohio
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sporting News: MAC commissioner defends scheduling
   Posted: 3/15/2017 9:13:13 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
[QUOTE=colobobcat66]
Any game that isn't making it onto ESPN, ESPN2, or ESPNU should be played on a typical Saturday. ESPN3, while I love it for college basketball, isn't giving real "exposure" to anyone except current fans and alumni.



you can not do this. there is no true bye week anymore, so having some games on Saturday creates unfair scheduling where one team has 10-11 days rest and another has 6. Coaches would not go for this. Besides, how many people are actually in the stands at most MAC games in November? (hint: very few) Is everyone's memory foggy? Does your brain tell you we had packed houses with high-priced tickets? We're the top attendance team in the conference and I promise you being on TV is a huge net gain in revenue.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sporting News: MAC commissioner defends scheduling
   Posted: 3/15/2017 9:13:31 PM 
L.C. wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
I would love to know what it costs the teams/communities to have these weekday games. Lost gate and concession revenue for the teams, and lost revenue big time for Athens businesses, etc....

It seems like Alan posted something a few years back that come study had shown that each Saturday home game was worth about $.5 million to the Athens business community. I've always thought that it was more than a coincidence that NIU's attendance slide began when they started turning their back on the DeKalb business community and scheduling big games at Soldier field.

If a Saturday game is worth $.5 million, I'd guess a weekday game is worth $.1 million, so the Athens business community loses $.8 million as a result of losing two Saturday home games. Ohio, meanwhile, does get about $.7 million for the TV appearance. They also lose perhaps 5,000 a game in paid attendance, get less per ticket, and less in concessions. Probably Ohio losses $.1 million per game, or $.2 million for the season from the midweek games, so they are net $.5 to the positive in cash flow. Logically that means $.5 million less that needs to be assessed in fees, so more money in the pockets of students, some of which, in turn, ends up back in the business community. Regardless, Ohio is a little better off, and the business community is significantly worse off.

All this is moot, though. The TV contract runs until the 2026 season.


Excellent points LC but until someone does a public records request, we'll never know the real numbers related to various attendance figures. You cite $5000 in walk up paid attendance. That's only 250 people. Scary thought.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sporting News: MAC commissioner defends scheduling
   Posted: 3/15/2017 11:29:53 PM 
When I said "They also lose perhaps 5,000 a game in paid attendance, get less per ticket, and less in concessions", I meant they get about 5,000 less people per game for weekday games, and they lose $100,000 as a result.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Maryland Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sporting News: MAC commissioner defends scheduling
   Posted: 3/16/2017 2:38:23 PM 
CA Bobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Maryland Bobcat wrote:
Well if there was ever any question the most important thing to this sport is that article summed it up. So on one hand mid-major programs complain about the power and the influence of money at the P5 level, yet turn around and basically let it control every action at our level. We’re no better by selling ourselves out simply for a paycheck.

For the record I think it’s very short-cited. Do people tune in because there’s no other games on? Sure, I think that’s valid, but will they continue to tune in to watch games when absolutely nobody is in the stadium? I’m not sure about that. I think long-term viewers will ultimately find that boring - without fans it turns something possibly compelling into ho-hum television. 5-10 years ago watching a mid-major game on tv was compelling because the fans showed up in droves to have a big game on tv. Now there’s nothing special about it, and attendance at these games continues to dwindle. Think where we were a few years ago for that blackout game vs Temple (packed house), then look at our games last year. They are playing with fire by alienating entire fan bases. Students that don’t go to games (and to be fair some weeknights it’s tough depending on exam and vacation schedules and cold weather) won't go on to become future loyal supporters. Not to mention young alumni coming back to visit on weekends those first couple of years out. Also, fans that have to travel a decent distance, such as myself, never can see a key conference home game in person. We’re usually stuck going to see a Labor Day weekend matchup vs Gardner-Webb or trying to battle the crowds and costs of Homecoming. They’re turning off key segments of supporters leaving only the local community, and season ticket holders within an hour’s drive to prop up ticket sales. I was fortunate enough to attend during the Grobe era when students really started tailgating and attending in large numbers for the first time. Great memories of those fall Saturdays!


MD,you nailed it. I live right here in town, have seats on the 50 and access to the end zone tent but when I can watch it from the comfort of my home on a weekday night when it's cold or rainy, I do. Weekends are the way to go. And has anyone talked about the number of classes being missed?


Um, what if it's cold and rainy on a weekend?

I think the biggest difference is weekend games attract more fans from outside the area who come visit for the weekend. If you've made your plans, have hotel reservations, meeting up with friends, etc I think more are likely to go despite the weather. Weeknight games draw only those immediately in the community or close by and there isn't the incentive to go if it's cold and raining.
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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sporting News: MAC commissioner defends scheduling
   Posted: 3/16/2017 10:28:07 PM 
Why don't we try escaping mediocrity (the land of at least four losses a year and no MACC).

Maybe winning will give us a more fervent fan base. I suspect we'll start seeing drop off in actual bodies in Peden (if we haven't already) if we don't start playing in a way that makes us look like a legit contender for a MACC.

Hint: 8-6 does not meet that standard.



Hey, you're the one who brought up the topic.






Last Edited: 3/16/2017 10:28:38 PM by Monroe Slavin

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!


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OhioStunter
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sporting News: MAC commissioner defends scheduling
   Posted: 3/17/2017 2:32:11 PM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
I suspect we'll start seeing drop off in actual bodies in Peden (if we haven't already) if we don't start playing in a way that makes us look like a legit contender for a MACC.



Is playing in the championship game against the No. 17 team and against an 18-point spread and losing by 6 not considered a legit contender for a MACC?
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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sporting News: MAC commissioner defends scheduling
   Posted: 3/17/2017 2:51:57 PM 
OhioStunter wrote:
Monroe Slavin wrote:
I suspect we'll start seeing drop off in actual bodies in Peden (if we haven't already) if we don't start playing in a way that makes us look like a legit contender for a MACC.



Is playing in the championship game against the No. 17 team and against an 18-point spread and losing by 6 not considered a legit contender for a MACC?



He's hopeless. he just keeps talking to advertise dog bags. What a joke.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sporting News: MAC commissioner defends scheduling
   Posted: 3/17/2017 7:04:33 PM 
OhioStunter wrote:
Monroe Slavin wrote:
I suspect we'll start seeing drop off in actual bodies in Peden (if we haven't already) if we don't start playing in a way that makes us look like a legit contender for a MACC.

Is playing in the championship game against the No. 17 team and against an 18-point spread and losing by 6 not considered a legit contender for a MACC?

Actually he just telegraphed his next argument. If Windham hadn't thrown the pick at the end, and instead had Ohio driven to win, Ohio would not have been a "legit" champion, whatever that is.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sporting News: MAC commissioner defends scheduling
   Posted: 3/18/2017 2:12:12 PM 
We were vaguely close in the MAC title game last year.


But we lost.

We were 8-6 last year, worse than the prior year.

We lost 3 of our last 4 last year.

0-4 MAC Championship games.

2-6 bowl games, last bowl win being in 2012..about 80 years ago.




Now, if we'd've won the MAC title game, I'd be an ass and I suspect that interest in the program would skyrocket.

But we lost.


And, I've repeatedly posted that there are 13 teams in the MAC for football. Wrong; there are 12. So, if Solich brings home a MACC in year 13, he'll still be less than average and I'll still be right.


It must get tiring for you all SFB that the facts are on my side...allowing me to own you here.






Last Edited: 3/18/2017 2:16:32 PM by Monroe Slavin

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!


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The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags
The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping!

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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sporting News: MAC commissioner defends scheduling
   Posted: 3/18/2017 2:47:01 PM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
We were vaguely close in the MAC title game last year.


But we lost.

We were 8-6 last year, worse than the prior year.

We lost 3 of our last 4 last year.

0-4 MAC Championship games.

2-6 bowl games, last bowl win being in 2012..about 80 years ago.




Now, if we'd've won the MAC title game, I'd be an ass and I suspect that interest in the program would skyrocket.

But we lost.


And, I've repeatedly posted that there are 13 teams in the MAC for football. Wrong; there are 12. So, if Solich brings home a MACC in year 13, he'll still be less than average and I'll still be right.


It must get tiring for you all SFB that the facts are on my side...allowing me to own you here.








All you own is some sorry existence in negativity. Enjoy it.
Go sell some doggie bags.

Last Edited: 3/18/2017 2:48:09 PM by colobobcat66
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sporting News: MAC commissioner defends scheduling
   Posted: 3/18/2017 4:54:25 PM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
Now, if we'd've won the MAC title game, I'd be an ass . . .


As a CPA and a numbers guy, you sometimes get confused with your tenses. ;-)

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sporting News: MAC commissioner defends scheduling
   Posted: 3/18/2017 8:31:10 PM 
Good call.

I use alternative tenses.


Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!


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The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags
The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping!

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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sporting News: MAC commissioner defends scheduling
   Posted: 3/18/2017 8:34:10 PM 
colobobcat66 wrote:
Monroe Slavin wrote:
We were vaguely close in the MAC title game last year.


But we lost.

We were 8-6 last year, worse than the prior year.

We lost 3 of our last 4 last year.

0-4 MAC Championship games.

2-6 bowl games, last bowl win being in 2012..about 80 years ago.




Now, if we'd've won the MAC title game, I'd be an ass and I suspect that interest in the program would skyrocket.

But we lost.


And, I've repeatedly posted that there are 13 teams in the MAC for football. Wrong; there are 12. So, if Solich brings home a MACC in year 13, he'll still be less than average and I'll still be right.


It must get tiring for you all SFB that the facts are on my side...allowing me to own you here.








All you own is some sorry existence in negativity. Enjoy it.
Go sell some doggie bags.



Good call.

When you don't have any argument or reply of substance, go trumpage.

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!


DesignspiritUSA.com
The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags
The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping!

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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: Sporting News: MAC commissioner defends scheduling
   Posted: 3/18/2017 8:57:18 PM 
Back to scheduling...it seems to me the real question is what is the value of these mid week games to OHIO? To me, value would be increased enrollment, you know kids paying a bunch of money to go to school at OHIO. I really think some year they should survey new students and ask them: Is one of the primary reasons why you are enrolling at OHIO because you saw mid week football games on TV in November?

I don't think it is much value if a bunch of "non interested" 60 year old guys who are bored watch these games. Again, I would ask what is the value to OHIO of those viewers?

Seems to me the one potential value is "better" recruits. I have to question that premis given the program has not really moved forward on the field that much lately. And, do we ask the new recruits if they are coming to OHIO because we played mid games and they saw us or were they already identified and interested for other reasons?

So, experts, what do you think is the "real" value of playing mid week in November?
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