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For those of you who understand the rules better than I do, why were those passes not penalized as picks? Great game! Back to Top C Money General User Member Since: 8/28/2010 Post Count: 3,420 Status: Offline     RE: Pick plays on passes in Clemson win    Posted: 1/10/2017 12:47:22 AM  It's a pure judgment call by the ref. Is the WR blocking downfield, or did the DB impede his route? The Clemson WRs did a good job selling that they were running routes, not blocking. Back to Top allen General User Member Since: 1/24/2006 Post Count: 4,635 Status: Offline     RE: Pick plays on passes in Clemson win    Posted: 1/10/2017 12:50:11 AM  If the receiver does not initiate contact, there is no penalty. I love Swinney's quotes on servant leadership.https://learnloftblog.com/2016/06/30/3-brilliant-leadersh... / Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes Back to Top BuddyLee General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 671 Status: Offline     RE: Pick plays on passes in Clemson win    Posted: 1/10/2017 12:57:04 AM  Was there contact with intent. Those were on the edge but clean plays. Back to Top allen General User Member Since: 1/24/2006 Post Count: 4,635 Status: Offline     RE: Pick plays on passes in Clemson win    Posted: 1/10/2017 1:04:11 AM  I think there should have been a penalty on the last one. Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes Back to Top Monroe Slavin General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Oxnard, CA Post Count: 9,121 Status: Offline     RE: Pick plays on passes in Clemson win    Posted: 1/10/2017 1:38:03 AM  Apart from that, the game made Sam Darnold stand out all the more for me. Deshaun Watson is a fine athlete and he may turn out to be a fine NFL qb. But I'll take Darnold's vision, calm, arm, etc in a heartbeat. Where's the band?! WHERE"S THE BAND?! DesignspiritUSA.com The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping! Back to Top ExCat21 General User Member Since: 9/29/2014 Post Count: 1,129 Status: Offline     RE: Pick plays on passes in Clemson win    Posted: 1/10/2017 1:41:13 AM  The first pick play is legal by #16 Leggett bcuz he flashes his hands and shows his number to the QB for the pass. The 2nd pick play is illegal. He initiates contact, dives into the legs of a defender going back towards the field of pla. Thats a 15 yrd OPI penalty. And for the ones saying he is blocking he cant block downfield while ball is in air. Great game but missed call Back to Top allen General User Member Since: 1/24/2006 Post Count: 4,635 Status: Offline     RE: Pick plays on passes in Clemson win    Posted: 1/10/2017 1:43:04 AM  ExCat21 wrote: The first pick play is legal by #16 Leggett bcuz he flashes his hands and shows his number to the QB for the pass. The 2nd pick play is illegal. He initiates contact, dives into the legs of a defender going back towards the field of pla. Thats a 15 yrd OPI penalty. And for the ones saying he is blocking he cant block downfield while ball is in air. Great game but missed call +1 Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes Back to Top RSBobcat General User Member Since: 8/22/2010 Location: Columbus, OH Post Count: 4,426 Status: Offline     RE: Pick plays on passes in Clemson win    Posted: 1/10/2017 1:45:30 AM  allen wrote: ExCat21 wrote: The first pick play is legal by #16 Leggett bcuz he flashes his hands and shows his number to the QB for the pass. The 2nd pick play is illegal. He initiates contact, dives into the legs of a defender going back towards the field of pla. Thats a 15 yrd OPI penalty. And for the ones saying he is blocking he cant block downfield while ball is in air. Great game but missed call +1 Even better because they would have had one more play even if it was called...... RS Bobcat Back to Top C Money General User Member Since: 8/28/2010 Post Count: 3,420 Status: Offline     RE: Pick plays on passes in Clemson win    Posted: 1/10/2017 9:11:58 AM  ExCat21 wrote: The first pick play is legal by #16 Leggett bcuz he flashes his hands and shows his number to the QB for the pass. The 2nd pick play is illegal. He initiates contact, dives into the legs of a defender going back towards the field of pla. Thats a 15 yrd OPI penalty. And for the ones saying he is blocking he cant block downfield while ball is in air. Great game but missed call The best argument I've seen as to why the second wasn't PI was that the defender initiated the contact around the shoulder pads, and the WR "fell" into his legs as a result. We all know that's not what really happened, but the WR sold it well. The refs were allowing physical play all night. I'm OK with the non-call there, although I would agree that by the letter of the law it is PI. Back to Top Ted Thompson Administrator Member Since: 11/11/2004 Location: MAC Play Post Count: 7,658 Status: Offline     RE: Pick plays on passes in Clemson win    Posted: 1/10/2017 3:09:27 PM  On the PI they said that happened in the end zone, it actually happened at the one. That's also where the flag was thrown. So my question is, since it happened on the one, should the ball have been spotted at the one? I am assuming it's a spot foul in that case and therefore not half the distance from the 9. Follow Ohio Football recruiting on the BobcatAttack.com football recruiting database. Back to Top OhioStunter General User Member Since: 2/18/2005 Location: Chicago Post Count: 2,516 Status: Offline     RE: Pick plays on passes in Clemson win    Posted: 1/10/2017 4:25:28 PM  Ted Thompson wrote: On the PI they said that happened in the end zone, it actually happened at the one. That's also where the flag was thrown. So my question is, since it happened on the one, should the ball have been spotted at the one? I am assuming it's a spot foul in that case and therefore not half the distance from the 9. I can't honestly read this post while looking at your avatar. Back to Top BillyTheCat General User Member Since: 10/6/2012 Post Count: 10,059 Status: Offline     RE: Pick plays on passes in Clemson win    Posted: 1/10/2017 6:06:36 PM  Ted Thompson wrote: On the PI they said that happened in the end zone, it actually happened at the one. That's also where the flag was thrown. So my question is, since it happened on the one, should the ball have been spotted at the one? I am assuming it's a spot foul in that case and therefore not half the distance from the 9. Inside the 17yd line this becomes an automatic spot foul and should be placed where the foul occurred unless in the end zone. Last Edited: 1/10/2017 6:08:01 PM by BillyTheCat Back to Top Ted Thompson Administrator Member Since: 11/11/2004 Location: MAC Play Post Count: 7,658 Status: Offline     RE: Pick plays on passes in Clemson win    Posted: 1/10/2017 9:53:16 PM  BillyTheCat wrote: Ted Thompson wrote: On the PI they said that happened in the end zone, it actually happened at the one. That's also where the flag was thrown. So my question is, since it happened on the one, should the ball have been spotted at the one? I am assuming it's a spot foul in that case and therefore not half the distance from the 9. Inside the 17yd line this becomes an automatic spot foul and should be placed where the foul occurred unless in the end zone. Thanks. Not a big deal as they got the ball at the two instead of the one. But had Clemson not converted, I could see a lot of scrutiny on that call. Follow Ohio Football recruiting on the BobcatAttack.com football recruiting database. Back to Top ExCat21 General User Member Since: 9/29/2014 Post Count: 1,129 Status: Offline     RE: Pick plays on passes in Clemson win    Posted: 1/11/2017 9:33:01 AM  I spoke with 2 collegiate refs and they stated it shouldve been called. Basically they said they look for the outside receiver doing the "pick" and he has to make an attempt to not contact the player being picked. I believe on Leggetts pick the two defenders ran into themselves. The second pick play, receiver initiated contact. So it should have been 1st and 17 with 1 second left. Clemson wouldve kicked a FG and mostly likely there wouldve went into overtime. Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,385 Status: Offline     RE: Pick plays on passes in Clemson win    Posted: 1/11/2017 10:57:00 AM  ExCat, are we looking at the swallow-your-whistle-in-the-last-minute phenomenon here? I've seen this so many times in basketball and football, and I've heard announcers praise it by saying things like, "They're letting them play here at the end. Don't want to decide this game with a whistle. That's the way it should be." To me this is total nonsense. If it's an infraction n the first minute of play, it's an infraction in the last minute. The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top ExCat21 General User Member Since: 9/29/2014 Post Count: 1,129 Status: Offline     RE: Pick plays on passes in Clemson win    Posted: 1/11/2017 1:52:15 PM  Yes we are. Which i sorta commend for letting players play however the two pick plays were so different that it shouldve been called. Back to Top BillyTheCat General User Member Since: 10/6/2012 Post Count: 10,059 Status: Offline     RE: Pick plays on passes in Clemson win    Posted: 1/11/2017 8:19:17 PM  OhioCatFan wrote: ExCat, are we looking at the swallow-your-whistle-in-the-last-minute phenomenon here? I've seen this so many times in basketball and football, and I've heard announcers praise it by saying things like, "They're letting them play here at the end. Don't want to decide this game with a whistle. That's the way it should be." To me this is total nonsense. If it's an infraction n the first minute of play, it's an infraction in the last minute. Funny in 2002 on the old board you weren't saying that about the National Title Game. Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,385 Status: Offline     RE: Pick plays on passes in Clemson win    Posted: 1/11/2017 10:55:32 PM  BillyTheCat wrote: OhioCatFan wrote: ExCat, are we looking at the swallow-your-whistle-in-the-last-minute phenomenon here? I've seen this so many times in basketball and football, and I've heard announcers praise it by saying things like, "They're letting them play here at the end. Don't want to decide this game with a whistle. That's the way it should be." To me this is total nonsense. If it's an infraction n the first minute of play, it's an infraction in the last minute. Funny in 2002 on the old board you weren't saying that about the National Title Game. I challenge your memory. What did I say in 2002? I can assure you that I didn't question any penalties on Miami (FL) on the basis of "just let 'em play" at end of regulation and OT and forget the rules. I might have thought there was a bad call, but that's a different matter. Sometimes I get the impression you just like to be ornery. BTW, Steve Hayes says he doesn't remember you. The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top rpbobcat General User Member Since: 4/28/2006 Location: Rochelle Park, NJ Post Count: 3,570 Status: Offline     RE: Pick plays on passes in Clemson win    Posted: 1/12/2017 6:56:03 AM  The issue of the "pick" is still being debated on the radio sports stations out here. One thing that all the pundits seem to agree on is that its very difficult to call a penalty for a "pick" on plays when you've you've got a QB rolling out,close to the goal line. Back to Top BillyTheCat General User Member Since: 10/6/2012 Post Count: 10,059 Status: Offline     RE: Pick plays on passes in Clemson win    Posted: 1/12/2017 11:07:18 AM  rpbobcat wrote: The issue of the "pick" is still being debated on the radio sports stations out here. One thing that all the pundits seem to agree on is that its very difficult to call a penalty for a "pick" on plays when you've you've got a QB rolling out,close to the goal line. And there is some truth to that. Just as culpable though is why in a formation and situation that lends itself to a pick or rub play (because they can very easily be run very effectively and legally) why you are in a pres man coverage. 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