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Topic: Group of Five Playoff

Topic: Group of Five Playoff

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GoCats105
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Group of Five Playoff

Posted: 12/29/2016 10:16:37 AM

It is being considered according to ESPN's Brett McMurphy.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/18369921/...

Count me in the I'll love it and believe it when I see it group, but this is FANTASTIC.

LuckySparrow
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RE: Group of Five Playoff

Posted: 12/29/2016 10:36:08 AM

I like that the top G5 team gets a New Years bowl. Don't want to see that go away.

This is an interesting idea, but sort of has an NIT feel.

What a day at the Convo.....Wow!

OhioStunter
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RE: Group of Five Playoff

Posted: 12/29/2016 10:41:16 AM

This is a case of "if you can't join 'em, beat 'em."

I'm actually surprised that ESPN hasn't signed on for something like this to give some structure and connectability to some of these bowls.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Group of Five Playoff

Posted: 12/29/2016 10:50:54 AM

This makes a lot of sense, though if you're going to do it, may as well go the full 9 and re-brand as a different division altogether.

There are several football national championships. Ohio isn't eligible for any of them. That's fundamentally ridiculous, and it's time to do something about that.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Group of Five Playoff

Posted: 12/29/2016 10:58:30 AM

A big stumbling block will be the playoff funding. This year the MAC, and all G5 conferences, are set to each get $18 milllion from the playoffs (P5 conferences get $50 million each). This doesn't include bowl payoffs, which are additional bucks. Follow the money.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

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Alan Swank
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RE: Group of Five Playoff

Posted: 12/29/2016 11:05:14 AM

GoCats105 wrote:

Fantastic idea and what some on this board have been calling for for quite some time. When you take this comment from the article into consideration, it makes perfect sense:

"There is absolutely no ability for us (teams in the Group of 5) to be in that national title conversation," Frazier said. "That's just reality. Anyone that says we can: That's a flat-out lie."

GoCats105
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RE: Group of Five Playoff

Posted: 12/29/2016 11:26:38 AM

Alan Swank wrote:

GoCats105 wrote:

The problem is there are other guys, like the AAC commissioner, who still believe they have a shot at a national championship. This guy's conference had 3-5 teams in line for Big 12 expansion and not ONE of them was attractive enough for the Big 12 to pull the trigger. Compete for national championships my a$$.

bshot44
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RE: Group of Five Playoff

Posted: 12/29/2016 11:57:06 AM

This idea is terrible. I cannot stress that enough.

Something like this could have a really, really bad domino affect on G5 teams.

Someone already mentioned the $$$ from the CFB ($18M)....I'm guessing that pipeline would be shut off if G5 went playoff? Where would they make up that money? A G5 playoff wouldn't be able to replace that?

So financially you've cut yourself off at the knees with a G5 playoff.

Now let's talk recruiting. Do you really think if G5 schools "break off"...recruits that are on the fence about going to Ohio to play immediately or go to Georgia to "have a shot" to play.....what are they going to choose? The P5 team that is elite....or the G5 that is admitting they are lower-class citizens in CFB? Do recruits currently choose FCS offers over FBS offers? I don't see many kids that say I'd rather play at Youngstown State then go to Toledo? Recruiting would take a serious hit if you ask me.

Therefore...the quality of play would take a serious dip. G5 football would be almost equal to good FCS football. No thanks.

Someone quoted something from the article......I prefer to read down a little further and use this:

Some officials are concerned a separate national title would perpetuate the perception of the haves and have-nots between the Power 5 and Group of 5.

"You mean compete for a junior varsity championship?" one Group of 5 AD said. "No thanks."

Yup.

Why wave the white flag and admit defeat at the hands of the P5? This is totally playing into their hands of widening that divide between the haves and have-nots. A G5 playoff only helps their argument that G5 teams are lower-class citizens.

Yes....the system is broke. 1000% correct. The only way to break it is to beat them at their own game....and it won't be easy. Houston had the right blueprint this year....play Oklahoma, Louisville and Cincinnati. If UH had gone undefeated with that schedule they would have been knocking on the door. Would they have gotten in? Not sure. We'll never know for sure. But they would have at least been in the conversation. You'll never be in the conversation playing Hampton, Purdue, Kansas and UMass.....or Kansas, Texas State and Gardner-Webb......or Northwestern, Illinois, Ga Southern and NC Central for that matter (WMU)

If more G5 teams did like Houston....but actually win those games....it could create a groundswell....where someday you'll get an 8 or 16 team playoff where G5 teams would earn a spot at the table.

But if you start a G5 playoff now....you all but kill any chance to ever return to that conversation. You have essentially seceded from the union and started your own country.....

Is that what we want for G5 programs? A division of football where we never can compete with those other schools? If that's the case....just join FCS.

Most G5 stadiums are half or a quarter empty for most home games....do you think dropping out of relevant competition is going to help that?

I don't think a postseason tournament is a bad idea. But you CANNOT market it as a G5 national championship. Market it like the NIT. Just a postseason tourney that crowns a winner. Still allow G5 teams to compete for a NY6 or CFP spot.

Once you admit you're not worthy of competing with P5 schools....that's something I don't think you can undo. Slippery slope.

colobobcat66
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RE: Group of Five Playoff

Posted: 12/29/2016 12:05:14 PM

GoCats105 wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

GoCats105 wrote:

The AAC still believes that they can make it as a new power conference, making it the P-6 instead of the P-5. They lost, it's probably not going to happen. They just can't face reality.

If we have a G-5 championship game and we get left out of the current money, can we possibly make as much money as a conference as we do now? I have no confidence in this, but it seems unlikely to me.

GoCats105
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RE: Group of Five Playoff

Posted: 12/29/2016 12:05:47 PM

I think a lot of this depends on how different the scheduling philosophy would change. If the G5 schools are still scheduling P5 opponents in the non conference, what difference does it make if they start their own playoff? They're essentially playing each other in these lower tier bowl games anyway right? So just turn those into a different playoff.

If that playoff revenue could be somewhat close to whatever the one spot in the NY6 Bowl game is, it's not the worst idea they've come up with. Why have someone MAYBE choose you for a NY6 game and lucrative payout when you can PLAY your way into the money on your terms?

OhioStunter
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RE: Group of Five Playoff

Posted: 12/29/2016 12:20:54 PM

bshot44 wrote:

Yes....the system is broke. 1000% correct. The only way to break it is to beat them at their own game....and it won't be easy. Houston had the right blueprint this year....play Oklahoma, Louisville and Cincinnati. If UH had gone undefeated with that schedule they would have been knocking on the door. Would they have gotten in? Not sure. We'll never know for sure. But they would have at least been in the conversation.

If the answer is to do what Houston did by scheduling tough OOC games, hope you win to go undefeated, then hope to be in the playoff conversation, then I think G5 teams will be waiting a long time for a playoff berth.

I do think playoff expansion is coming -- but hopefully it will include slots for G5 teams.

rpbobcat
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RE: Group of Five Playoff

Posted: 12/29/2016 12:27:57 PM

The sports talk stations out here have been spending a lot of time on this since they announced the 4 teams that made the playoff,especially since PSU didn't get
in.

Virtually all of the hosts and callers feel that they should go to an 8 team playoff.
That's only 1 more game for the teams that make it to the championship game.

bshot44
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RE: Group of Five Playoff

Posted: 12/29/2016 12:29:27 PM

OhioStunter wrote:

bshot44 wrote:

Totally agree. But if you start scheduling down and admitting you're not worthy.....you'll never get a seat at the table even if the playoff expands to 8 or 16.

Keep pushing the issue. G5 need more years like Houston and Boise the past couple and WMU this year. They need to remain in the conversation to ever have a chance to "earning" an auto berth into an 8-team or 16-team playoff.

Once you step away from that table.....the odds you'll find a spot again are pretty slim in my opinion.

OUVan
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RE: Group of Five Playoff

Posted: 12/29/2016 12:34:45 PM

LuckySparrow wrote:

I like that the top G5 team gets a New Years bowl. Don't want to see that go away.

This is an interesting idea, but sort of has an NIT feel.

The difference is that a G5 team has a chance at winning it all in basketball. A G5 team will never, ever make the playoff under the current format. And since we don't have that opportunity there is no longer any reason to pretend we are playing in the same division as the P5. The bowls have pretty much lost all their luster as well. I say go for it.

OU_Country
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RE: Group of Five Playoff

Posted: 12/29/2016 12:48:38 PM

OUVan wrote:

LuckySparrow wrote:

I like that the top G5 team gets a New Years bowl. Don't want to see that go away.

This is an interesting idea, but sort of has an NIT feel.

I say go for it, but go for it in a big way. Find a way to blend some FCS schools that fit, have a playoff in the way that they do - a real playoff. Involve TV that wants to be a part of a real playoff. There are plenty of fans that are fed up with the bowls and the so called playoffs that would watch real competition. Sell the hell out of it, and tell the P5 to go fly a kite in a lightning storm. As in, be unwilling to play their buy games more than once in the schedule.

bshot44
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RE: Group of Five Playoff

Posted: 12/29/2016 12:52:47 PM

OU_Country wrote:

OUVan wrote:

LuckySparrow wrote:

I like that the top G5 team gets a New Years bowl. Don't want to see that go away.

This is an interesting idea, but sort of has an NIT feel.

While I'm in agreement that the G5 should just give the big middle finger to the P5 and the sh***y bowl system....it's just not feasible.

There's no way these schools could survive financially without the P5 and playoff payouts.

It's the unfortunate truth.

Even if there is some seismic shift where the P5 just totally secedes.....the G5 teams would be scrambling for nickels in the seat cushions.

The guarantee games and the postseason payouts for a lot of schools keep them afloat...not just for football...but as an athletic dept.

ou79
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RE: Group of Five Playoff

Posted: 12/29/2016 1:11:58 PM

Good posts Bshot44 and I agree with the same. Once we give up being in the same block as the P5, we potentially lose SERIOUS $$$ that we now get. Why? Because as long as we are theoretically in the same block as the P5 (FBS), the P5 have to treat us somewhat as equals or at least throw serious $$$ our way or risk a lawsuit. Once we agree to leave the FBS for a G5 playoff system, those $$$ go away. Look at the FCS, they do not share in the $$$ we now get, because they are not a part of the FBS. If we leave the FBS, we lose those $$$ and that alone is a lot of money. The way to beat the system is for the G5 to produce teams like Boise, Houston, WMU or whoever. We may not make it to the BCS championship, but they cannot ignore us either. And, when the playoff system is expanded, we will still be at the table and they will have to include us or again risk litigation.

OhioStunter
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RE: Group of Five Playoff

Posted: 12/29/2016 1:25:09 PM

ou79 wrote:

Therein lies the challenge. Proceed as normal in the hopes that someday a G5 gets a playoff bid (will never happen with a four-team system), while G5 collects the $$$?

Or do something bold to force the hand of changing the system (at the risk of losing $$$, but gaining more excitement/exposure for your teams)?

Pataskala
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RE: Group of Five Playoff

Posted: 12/29/2016 1:41:02 PM

The conspiracy theorist in me says this would be the "P" conferences' way of segregating non-"P"s from the NCAA b-ball tourney, as some "P" coaches have argued for. If we're willing to have a separate football playoff, why not b-ball too?

If a G5 playoff comes about, my guess is that expansion of the CFP to 8 or more teams would quickly follow because the need to lock G5 teams out of the playoff would be gone.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

ou79
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RE: Group of Five Playoff

Posted: 12/29/2016 1:50:05 PM

Perhaps the G5 should talk to the Big 12 who has only one team one time in the playoffs (Oklahoma - 2015). Then again, maybe we call the PAC 12 who has only had two teams in the playoffs (Oregon - 2014) and Washington (2016). These two leagues/conferences have faired only a little better than the entire G5. Maybe they want to join us? Of course I am only being semi serious but you get the point. The Big 10, ACC and SEC have had teams in the playoffs all three years, but then again, in the ACC they have spread the wealth between FSU - 2014 and Clemson - 2015 and 2016. The Big 10 has sent only two members in the three years, Michigan State in 2015 and Ohio State in 2014 and 2016. Finally, the SEC has sent the same team all three years, Alabama. So the G5 are not the only ones in the same boat. The Big 12 is basically only a little better and the PAC 12 is not far behind. Message, don't leave now. This system will implode in the near future when teams in the P5 realize they have about as much chance of making the playoffs as the G5 teams.

bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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RE: Group of Five Playoff

Posted: 12/29/2016 1:54:52 PM

OUVan wrote:

LuckySparrow wrote:

I like that the top G5 team gets a New Years bowl. Don't want to see that go away.

This is an interesting idea, but sort of has an NIT feel.

G5 has the odds stacked against them, but I don't think it's fair to say they would never make the playoffs.

If Houston goes undefeated this year with their schedule they probably would be in the Playoffs over Washington.

With that being said, just because a good MWC or AAC team has a shot doesn't mean we do. I'd be all in favor of a G5 playoff for us.

Mark Lembright '85
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RE: Group of Five Playoff

Posted: 12/29/2016 9:41:44 PM

I think a separate G5 playoff is a great idea. NIU's AD is exactly right-AINT NO WAY A G5 TEAM CAN WIN THE CFP! Not gonna happen-that ship has long since sailed.

And what "serious" money would Ohio stand to lose if there were a G5 play-off? None. As we've discussed at great length, the vast majority of Ohio's athletic budget comes from student fees. If there's "serious" money that the G5 are currently getting, it sure hasn't trickled to Ohio.

Jeff McKinney
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RE: Group of Five Playoff

Posted: 12/29/2016 10:59:52 PM

I favor the idea and always have. I also like the idea of including the top several conferences in FCS. Those opposed still are following the pipe dream that somehow we can compete with the Alabama and Southern Cals.

We won't lose out on money in the long run. This sham house of cards run by ESPN is doomed to eventual collapse anyway.

Last Edited: 12/29/2016 11:01:35 PM by Jeff McKinney

brucecuth
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RE: Group of Five Playoff

Posted: 12/29/2016 11:07:33 PM

I've read the story, and there's certainly no groundswell for this. Seems to be as much opposition as there is support, so it won't happen anytime soon. I cannot imagine Navy and Air Force, for example, giving their enthusiastic backing.

Now, if the Power 5 schools at some point feel it is in their best interests to help this idea along, maybe in some way pay the Group of 5 to "go away", maybe then it becomes more feasible. And if it does happen, and teams are no longer eligible for the CFB, well then the AP and the Coaches polls might no longer include Group of 5 teams. And at that point the MAC and the other conferences will fade even further from public consciousness.

I do think that at some point the Power 5 will get tired of the NCAA, its investigations that seemingly never end, its rulebook that is more complicated than the tax code, and for football purposes leave the NCAA altogether.

perimeterpost
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RE: Group of Five Playoff

Posted: 12/29/2016 11:15:09 PM

segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever.

this is a horrible, horrible idea.

MY STATE. MY TEAM.

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