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Topic: WMU in the NYTimes

Topic: WMU in the NYTimes

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giacomo
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WMU in the NYTimes

Posted: 11/6/2016 9:56:41 AM

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/06/sports/ncaafootball/wes...

Great article on the MAC and its slot in the food chain of college football.

Jeff McKinney
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RE: WMU in the NYTimes

Posted: 11/6/2016 9:13:40 PM

Western Michigan has zero chance of ever getting in a Power 5 conference.

Alan Swank
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RE: WMU in the NYTimes

Posted: 11/7/2016 10:15:32 AM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

Western Michigan has zero chance of ever getting in a Power 5 conference.

Based on that statement Jeff, is there a school in the MAC that you think does have a chance?

Kinggeorge4
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RE: WMU in the NYTimes

Posted: 11/7/2016 10:42:39 AM

I think that if they had kept winning, NIU was the only one with a chance. With being near Chicago, everyone looks at your market (not that NIU owns any of Chicago).

GO BOBCATS
GEORGE

El Gato Roberto
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RE: WMU in the NYTimes

Posted: 11/7/2016 10:59:01 AM

it doesn't hurt that in most years the Huskies are the best college football team in the state of Illinois. NU and U of I also don't draw well - there are always empty seats. If NIU could figure out how to get fans to travel to Dekalb for a game they would have a good shot. WMU is not close in Michigan. UM, MSU and heck throw in the Irish - all compete with Western for fans.

"The name's Ohio University, but everybody calls me Ohio. Any of you guys call me Ohio U, and I'll kill you."

L.C.
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RE: WMU in the NYTimes

Posted: 11/7/2016 11:06:24 AM

Kinggeorge4 wrote:

I think that if they had kept winning, NIU was the only one with a chance. With being near Chicago, everyone looks at your market (not that NIU owns any of Chicago).

To get into a P5 conference, first and foremost you need fans. NIU's attendance has been in decline for the last decade, so I think they never really had a chance.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Kinggeorge4
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RE: WMU in the NYTimes

Posted: 11/7/2016 11:40:24 AM

I do not really see anyone in the MAC going to a P5. NIU was the best football product. I agree with attendance issues. Toledo would of been my next guess but that is even more of a reach.

GO BOBCATS
GEORGE

Recovering Journalist
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RE: WMU in the NYTimes

Posted: 11/7/2016 11:42:44 AM

Western has as good of a chance at moving up as any MAC school (none).

Last Edited: 11/7/2016 11:43:41 AM by Recovering Journalist

GoCats105
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RE: WMU in the NYTimes

Posted: 11/7/2016 11:49:40 AM

Has anyone ever really thought that maybe Chicago just isn't a college football town?

Love the Bears. Love the Cubs. Big basketball city in all forms. Maybe college football isn't high on their priority list.

What little college football fan base they do have probably goes to other Big Ten schools or Notre Dame I'm guessing.

El Gato Roberto
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RE: WMU in the NYTimes

Posted: 11/7/2016 11:59:05 AM

Ptobably right. Hasn't been the same since U of C cancelled the program. THE MAROON were the original "Monsters of the Midway" - not da Bears.

A little Fight Song trivia. "Love and Honor" was originally for "Chicago" not Miami.

Last Edited: 11/7/2016 12:03:25 PM by El Gato Roberto

"The name's Ohio University, but everybody calls me Ohio. Any of you guys call me Ohio U, and I'll kill you."

Pataskala
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RE: WMU in the NYTimes

Posted: 11/7/2016 12:13:54 PM

Buffalo would have the best chance of any MAC school if they could keep a viable program going AND be able to use Ralph Wilson Stadium. UB Stadium would need a makeover. It's small by "P"5 standards (29,000+) and really not that attractive, even tho it's only 25 years old. On the plus side they're in a big TV market (51) and do well in men's b-ball and some other sports.

Akron is considered part of the Cleveland market (18) so that's attractive. But expanding Infocision beyond its 30,000 capacity may be problematic.

Toledo is in a smaller TV market (77) but is close to Detroit, although Detroit is almost completely closed to anyone but Mich and MSU. The Glass Bowl would also need a major expansion to be on par with some of the other "P"5 schools.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

The Optimist
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RE: WMU in the NYTimes

Posted: 11/7/2016 12:22:11 PM

Quote:

�People have just assumed he�s gone,� Kathy Beauregard, Western Michigan�s athletic director for the last two decades, said of Fleck, �and we haven�t just assumed that.�

When I hear PJ speak, he reminds me of another MAC coach whose team is getting Top 25 votes... Saul Phillips.

Interesting parallel to draw between the two looking at their personalities/how heavy they brand themselves/their schools.

Sure would be interesting if all the "experts" were wrong and they stuck around...

🤔

Last Edited: 11/7/2016 12:24:17 PM by The Optimist

I've seen crazier things happen.

Mark Lembright '85
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RE: WMU in the NYTimes

Posted: 11/7/2016 12:27:49 PM

Conversely, let me ask. Would any MAC school (Ohio in particular) WANT to move up to P5 level? The financial commitment is astronomical and the return might be somewhat questionable (see current TV ratings, which continue to decline). I'm not advocating one way or the other, just recognizing that a move up comes with very significant financial risks.

Kinggeorge4
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RE: WMU in the NYTimes

Posted: 11/7/2016 12:32:07 PM

I do not see any of the MAC having the money. Akron is in trouble with money, we are not flush by any means to afford to expand and upgrade.

GO BOBCATS
GEORGE

Recovering Journalist
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RE: WMU in the NYTimes

Posted: 11/7/2016 12:50:06 PM

Mark Lembright '85 wrote:

I agree with this. For a real cautionary tale, look at what Rutgers has done to sell its soul to the B1G.

OhioCatFan
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RE: WMU in the NYTimes

Posted: 11/7/2016 1:33:59 PM

El Gato Roberto wrote:

. . . A little Fight Song trivia. "Love and Honor" was originally for "Chicago" not Miami.

Really, that's interesting. Do you have any details on when it was stolen by Oxford Tech? As you may recall, my father was a U. Chicago graduate. When he was there they were in the B1G and Jay Berwanger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Berwanger ) was the "one man football team." Dad said he often kicked off, punted, as well as played both halfback and sometimes QB. Dad never saw another football player he thought could hold a candle to Mr. Berwanger. Chicago, of course, is a much more johnny-come-lately institution than venerable old Miami, but perhaps the "love and honor" thing doesn't date back that far. I'd really be interested in the details.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

L.C.
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RE: WMU in the NYTimes

Posted: 11/7/2016 1:46:42 PM

Pataskala wrote:

I agree with this. Buffalo was really the one school that ever had a chance to move up. I think that was the point of trying to re-brand them "SUNY - Bufflo", and with uniforms that said "New York". The problem is, it was 20+ years too late. Suppose they had called themselves "New York" and joined the Big East with Rutgers in 1991?

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

GoCats105
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RE: WMU in the NYTimes

Posted: 11/7/2016 2:31:00 PM

Mark Lembright '85 wrote:

Yeah but the finances are almost made up for with the TV contract you get dealt as a member of that conference. It depends what you would expect of the football program and how successful you think they could be.

I think that's where Rutgers screwed up. The athletic department and president just saw $$$$ from the Big Ten and said let's go there, not realizing how far behind they really were athletically. Remember: Rutgers joined the Big Ten from the Big East. They were already behind the 8-ball. It's not like Nebraska from the Big 12 to the Big Ten or Missouri from the Big 12 to the SEC.

I think the real danger comes from academics and recruiting. Once you get that kind of money, it's harder and harder to keep the same academic restrictions and recruiting practices if you want to stay competitive in one of those leagues.

BillyTheCat
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RE: WMU in the NYTimes

Posted: 11/7/2016 4:15:10 PM

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2012/11/joini...

giacomo
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RE: WMU in the NYTimes

Posted: 11/7/2016 5:11:10 PM

The other factor nobody has mentioned is the willingness of a few well heeled boosters to pony up. Every program now and then, after a few good years and then loses their coach, thinks they can/should do it. The MAC is better knowing who they are and sticking together.

bshot44
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RE: WMU in the NYTimes

Posted: 11/7/2016 5:16:42 PM

L.C. wrote:

To get into a P5 conference, first and foremost you need fans. NIU's attendance has been in decline for the last decade, so I think they never really had a chance.

I disagree with the first and foremost. Fans are important....but TV market is kingpin.

See Rutgers. They have HORRIBLE fan support and yet the B1G took them...for NE TV share.

Same could be said about Maryland. They've never drawn for football (as far as B1G standards go)

I think it's a total pipe dream that any MAC school would make jump to a P5 conference.

If Boise hasn't made that leap yet (also Houston, Central Florida, South Florida)....there is no way anyone from the MAC is going anywhere before them.

What would benefit the MAC most this year....is if WMU ran the table....got into the NY6 Bowl Game....and won.

If not, they're just another cute story that will be forgotten as soon as 2017 kicks off.

MAC needs sustainability from relevant teams. Can't have flashes in the pan. NIU was on that path, but seriously derailed the last couple years.

Boise created the blueprint....just need to follow that....but a lot easier said then done.

UCF, USF, UH all have benefit of being in Orlando, Tampa and Houston......a tick better than DeKalb, Athens and Kalamazoo.

El Gato Roberto
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RE: WMU in the NYTimes

Posted: 11/7/2016 5:59:06 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

El Gato Roberto wrote:

. . . A little Fight Song trivia. "Love and Honor" was originally for "Chicago" not Miami.

Actually, I got it all wrong -

Wave the Flag (For Old Chicago) is the fight song for the Maroons.[11] Gordon Erickson wrote the lyrics in 1929. The tune was adapted from Miami University's "Marching Song" written in 1908 by Raymond H. Burke, a University of Chicago graduate who joined Miami's faculty in 1906.
The song is traditionally sung by the players at midfield after all home victories.[12].

http://www.liquisearch.com/chicago_maroons/fight_song

"The name's Ohio University, but everybody calls me Ohio. Any of you guys call me Ohio U, and I'll kill you."

Jeff McKinney
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RE: WMU in the NYTimes

Posted: 11/7/2016 10:59:28 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

Jeff McKinney wrote:

Western Michigan has zero chance of ever getting in a Power 5 conference.

Based on that statement Jeff, is there a school in the MAC that you think does have a chance?

No team in the MAC has any chance of moving to a Power 5 conference.

rpbobcat
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RE: WMU in the NYTimes

Posted: 11/8/2016 6:34:20 AM

bshot44 wrote:

L.C. wrote:

To get into a P5 conference, first and foremost you need fans. NIU's attendance has been in decline for the last decade, so I think they never really had a chance.

About the only sport Rutgers has any fan support in is wrestling.
But even at that,the fans were pretty much no shows at the last NCAA's in NYC.

When Rutgers announced they were going to the B1G everyone said that their talent and facilities weren't Big Ten ready.

I know a bunch of big time RU fans and boosters.
They said RU wasn't ready and would be a doormat in football and basketball for years.

Everyone knew that the only reason they got in was for the B1G to get into the NY/NJ T.V. market.

OhioCatFan
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RE: WMU in the NYTimes

Posted: 11/8/2016 10:58:54 AM

El Gato Roberto wrote:

Wave the Flag (For Old Chicago) is the fight song for the Maroons.[11] Gordon Erickson wrote the lyrics in 1929. The tune was adapted from Miami University's "Marching Song" written in 1908 by Raymond H. Burke, a University of Chicago graduate who joined Miami's faculty in 1906.
The song is traditionally sung by the players at midfield after all home victories.[12].

http://www.liquisearch.com/chicago_maroons/fight_song

Thanks for the clarification, EGR.

If you listen here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u60sriWeQOs , I would say "stolen" might be a more accurate word than adapted. At least the chorus is exactly the same as the infamous Miami fight song. Every time we are at a Miami game, or watching one on TV, and this song is played my wife burst into the alternate unflattering lyrics, which I assume most on here know.

In terms of lyrics, the link you posted had these for the Chicago version:

Wave the flag of old Chicago,
Maroon the color grand.
Ever shall her team be victors
Known throughout the land.
With the grand old man to lead them,
Without a peer they'll stand.
Wave again the dear old banner,
For they're heroes ev'ry man.

The grand old man, of course, was Amos Alonzo Stagg, who was coach at Chicago when Dad started there. For those who don't know about Stagg he coached until he was in his 90s, though for the last several years he was an assistant coach rather than a head coach.

Last Edited: 11/8/2016 11:01:21 AM by OhioCatFan

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