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Topic: The "D" or Lack There of

Topic: The "D" or Lack There of

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71 BOBCAT
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
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The "D" or Lack There of

Posted: 9/4/2016 10:53:58 AM

So all that talk about the "D" being the strength of the team certainly did not materialize in this game.
With 11 minutes left and up by 10 points, at home, the "D" failed to do their job. I was crunch time and the "O" did their job to storm back and get a 2 score lead only to have the "D" let TX State back in.
The "D" isn't as good as we were all lead to believe.

The team has a lot of work to do.

GO BOBCATS

L.C.
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RE: The "D" or Lack There of

Posted: 9/4/2016 6:28:05 PM

I didn't see any of the game, or hear any on the radio, so I have no idea what went wrong. It seems clear from the score that the defense was a problem. It's now in year 3, and I'm still not sold on the Cover 4 defense. It simply seems to give up far too many long plays for my liking.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Casper71
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RE: The "D" or Lack There of

Posted: 9/5/2016 12:31:24 AM

And, the last series it was a cover 4- prevent defense. Yep, it prevented us from having a chance to win. Our corners give up way too much cushion and a couple looked like they don't belong. I hate seeing them out there on an island. Little underneath coverage and afraid to get beat deep is not a defense for success with the personnel we have (or don't).

RSBobcat
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RE: The "D" or Lack There of

Posted: 9/5/2016 12:49:49 AM

I don't know how many times I saw 5 D back, 2 receivers in the back and BOTH WIDE OPEN

RS Bobcat

allen
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RE: The "D" or Lack There of

Posted: 9/5/2016 2:43:41 AM

The cover four never works and you have to hold players accountable. Blair Brown needs to wrap up and play smart and Moore needs to cover ground and make solid tackles. We finally got some turnovers from our db's. We need to get our hands on the ball and we need to get 5-9 sacks per game, we have high motor guys and instinctive players like Poling make it happen.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

Valley Cat
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RE: The "D" or Lack There of

Posted: 9/5/2016 9:06:57 AM

I don't understand the unwillingness to play nickel versus four or more Wr's. I assume with all the loses at corner they don't have enough guys to cover.

doubledribble
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RE: The "D" or Lack There of

Posted: 9/5/2016 3:51:00 PM

Our lack of experience and depth at this position is something that we will need to overcome before we hit conference play.

L.C.
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RE: The "D" or Lack There of

Posted: 9/5/2016 4:20:10 PM

Valley Cat wrote:

I don't understand the unwillingness to play nickel versus four or more Wr's. I assume with all the loses at corner they don't have enough guys to cover.

The outside linebackers are essentially safeties anyway. That's why Ohio has gotten away from nickle/dime defenses - because they are in one all the time anyway.

Ohio's cover-4 defense seems to work really well in some games, and not well at all in others. When teams have excellent quarterbacks, the defense can get torched. Examples would be Marshall with Cato, BG, and now Texas State. Against average QBs the defense does very well. Contrast Marshall in 2015 to Marshall in 2014. I personally feel much better about the Cover-2. It does give up a lot of yards, at times, but far less big plays.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Pataskala
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RE: The "D" or Lack There of

Posted: 9/5/2016 4:20:56 PM

There's also a bit of a discipline problem on the D. We were flagged for at least three late hits/unsportsmanlike and I saw two or three others that could've or should've been called.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: The "D" or Lack There of

Posted: 9/5/2016 4:24:18 PM

Let's keep backtracking! I'm in!:

TX State is clearly one of the all-time great football teams.

You got any that you want to add--jump in?!

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!

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L.C.
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RE: The "D" or Lack There of

Posted: 9/5/2016 4:32:30 PM

No one has said that Texas State has a great team. However, even before the game, the emphasis was on the fact that they have a very good quarterback. It is against that type of QB that the cover-4 seems to fail miserably.

I should add that the other problem with the cover-4 is that it requires outstanding cornerbacks. The one position that has scared me all year is cornerback. I haven't been concerned about any other position.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

OhioCatFan
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RE: The "D" or Lack There of

Posted: 9/5/2016 6:29:11 PM

Monroe, let's see how they do against the likes of Houston, Arkansas and Incarnate Word. There have been sleeper teams before that were very poorly ranked at the beginning of a season and turned out to be very good. I'm not saying that'll be the case with Texas State, but one never knows until the chips are on the table. If they pull an upset against either of their next two opponents, or even play them very close, that'll tell us one thing. They get blown out by Incarnate Word, it'll tell us something entirely different.

I watched Toledo rout Arkansas State, a favorite to win the Sun Belt. It looked to me like Texas State might be very competitive against ASU.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

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allen
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RE: The "D" or Lack There of

Posted: 9/5/2016 6:52:49 PM

A victory against Kansas will not be an upset.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

Deciduous Forest Cat
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RE: The "D" or Lack There of

Posted: 9/5/2016 8:00:14 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Even if Texas State is much better than anyone expected, their lack of depth is likely to kill them down the stretch so no matter what, this will still look like a bad loss.

bshot44
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RE: The "D" or Lack There of

Posted: 9/6/2016 11:56:39 AM

L.C. wrote:

Wasn't a problem giving up a lot of long plays. It continued to give up 8-12 yard pass plays over and over and over again. They torched us because we kept giving them a huge cushion. At no time did coaches make adjustments. Only two pass plays more than 30 yards. None over 40.

GoCats105
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RE: The "D" or Lack There of

Posted: 9/6/2016 12:08:56 PM

bshot44 wrote:

L.C. wrote:

It's almost like the coaches were scared the guys would get burnt deep, so they just continued to allow for the underneath throws hoping Texas State would make a mistake. At some point you have to let your guys play.

L.C.
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RE: The "D" or Lack There of

Posted: 9/6/2016 12:22:52 PM

bshot44 wrote:

I can see that they did give up some long runs, though. That's a related problem. I'm generally comfortable with giving up a large number of short passes, which was the traditional strategy of the Cover-2. The idea is that it's hard to sustain an 80 yard drive with 16 five yard completions. A sack, a drop, an interception, a penalty... lots of things can go wrong.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

bshot44
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RE: The "D" or Lack There of

Posted: 9/6/2016 12:25:47 PM

6 regulation scoring drives....all at least 50 yards (all but one at least 61 yards)....little to no resistance....right down the field in less than 2:11 in each of them.

That's the problem. Ohio defense did little to make "something go wrong" in any of those drives. Was way too easy for TxSt most of the day.

8 plays, 61 yards, 2:06 - TD (7-6)
9 plays, 68 yards, 1:07 - TD (14-6)
7 plays, 75 yards, 1:56 - TD (21-16)
7 plays, 71 yards, 2:11 - TD (28-31)
5 plays, 50 yards, 0:49 - TD (35-31)
5 plays from own 29-yd line for FG, :33 - FG (38-38)

Pataskala
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RE: The "D" or Lack There of

Posted: 9/6/2016 12:46:40 PM

One thing mentioned on TV is our speed on the D line made us susceptible to screens and shovel passes. We'd over-pursue and leave the underneath open. Could be. I'd rather have that, tho, than not have a decent pass rush. Making adjustments to compensate for over-pursuit is relatively easy to fix. Not having a decent pass rush is much harder to deal with.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

BillyTheCat
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RE: The "D" or Lack There of

Posted: 9/6/2016 1:15:17 PM

bshot44 wrote:

One thing not to be over looked here is the fact that TSU ran a very fast pace offense. Getting off 9 plays in 67 seconds is impressive, very impressive 7.4 seconds per play, with college timing rules.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: The "D" or Lack There of

Posted: 9/6/2016 1:33:08 PM

L.C. wrote:

bshot44 wrote:

Not sure about the math on that. Stats show that they hit 41 of 56 passing attempts. About 77%. For 440 yards, so about 10 yards per completion.

Hmm. Three downs to get a first...and your throwing completions of about 10 yards each on 2 of them (if you pass 3 times). You might be content to let them keep hitting short ones in that firestorm. So might the OHIO coaching staff.

But not someone who reacts to circumstances.

Again, I didn't watch for this the whole game. But on their first drive of the second half we played their receives tight at the line. The drive went nowhere. I don't think that we went to that tactic again. I wouldn't have gone to it exclusively. But I'd've used it more.

Valley Cat
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RE: The "D" or Lack There of

Posted: 9/6/2016 1:48:18 PM

Is Maxwell Howell still on this team?

Bcat2
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RE: The "D" or Lack There of

Posted: 9/6/2016 1:51:50 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

L.C. wrote:

bshot44 wrote:

Yes. They averaged 7.9 per attempt and 10.7 per completion. Ohio managed 8.4 per attempt and 14.1 per completion.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

Monroe Slavin
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RE: The "D" or Lack There of

Posted: 9/6/2016 2:38:15 PM

Yeah, but there's no real equivalence between our passing and theirs.

First, if you watched the game, you realize that.

Second, we went 27 of 45. That's not near 41 of 56. To get from ours to theirs, you'd have to go 14 of 11.

I will be repeating this one endlessly, so get used to it. (No, it's not that experienced qb's always dice us...though that will be pretty constant, apparently.) It's that we have not shown to have a qb who's 1) above average on hitting wide open guys 2) and who can at all gun balls into tight/small windows--and that puts a ceiling on us.

L.C.
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RE: The "D" or Lack There of

Posted: 9/6/2016 2:38:38 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

First of all, the defense that I like is the cover 2. That was the defense used from 2005-2013. The defense I'm not comfortable with is the defense used from 2014-2016. Converting to it was a bold gamble, but it has resulted in some disastrous games.

Next, if they don't have the cornerbacks up pressing in the cover-4, they aren't playing the defense the way Mark Dantonio played it. The whole idea of his defense is to attack. The line attacks, the corners press. If the line is penetrating, the QB has to throw early, at which point the corners are up close. If the pass rush isn't there, however, pressing will lead to giving up long passes. If the QB has plenty of time to throw, and the corners press, eventually a receiver will get open.

If the line is pressing, but the corners aren't, then you're going to force the QB to throw early, but that isn't a problem for him since he has somewhere to throw it. I don't see the point of that. Conversely, in the cover-2, you don't press the QB, and you don't press the receivers. Your defense defends and reacts, and leaves no screens, or the like, plus they drop guys into passing lanes sometimes, or blitz other times. You let the QB throw short, but never long, and try to confuse him into an ill-advised pass.

I'll have a better idea after I watch the Kansas game, but it sounds like they didn't trust any of the young corners enough to bring them up and have them press, and ended up in a defense that didn't work well at all.

Last Edited: 9/6/2016 2:41:34 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

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