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Topic: 2 back pistol offense

Topic: 2 back pistol offense

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sargentfan
General User

Member Since: 3/16/2005
Post Count: 917

Status: Offline

2 back pistol offense

Posted: 4/20/2016 12:25:53 PM

Sorry if I missed any discussion elsewhere on this. But I loved hearing that the offense this coming year is looking to take advantage of our running back depth by using a 2 back pistol offense. A great way to have our talent on the field and can easily motion guys like Papi into the slot.

LuckySparrow
General User

Member Since: 10/15/2012
Location: Illinois
Post Count: 1,750

Status: Offline

RE: 2 back pistol offense

Posted: 4/20/2016 1:14:39 PM

Good to have a fresh thread on this topic.

I'm looking forward to all sorts of possibilities with this package. I think Papi is going to be all over the field. We're going to need to be a really strong running team this season. We've got the depth and a fair amount of experience on the OL.

What a day at the Convo.....Wow!

L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 10,470

Status: Offline

RE: 2 back pistol offense

Posted: 4/20/2016 2:51:26 PM

I wouldn't say that there is an unusual amount of experience returning on the OL, but I do think that there is a lot of talent there. This will be the third year in the system for the linemen of the Class of 2014 (Pruehs, Lowerey, McCray, Langencamp, Dudziak) so they will be Redshirt Sophomores and true Juniors, plus you have Watson, Wood, Gibbons, and a couple JUCOs, Cooper and Anderson. It may take a few games for this group to gel, but I think it will be a competent line by mid-season.

As for how they use the 2 back sets, that remains to be seen. All of them are competent receivers, too, so they should be able to have a lot of variety in what they try to do.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Monroe Slavin
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

Status: Offline

RE: 2 back pistol offense

Posted: 4/21/2016 2:31:17 AM

This topic is not a "fresh thread."

Some of us have been advocating this for years.

Sometimes, our coaches are a bit slow on the uptake.

[this space reserved for DCF and bobcatsquared to post their same old stale rejoinders

]

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!

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cc-cat
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Member Since: 4/5/2006
Location: matthews, NC
Post Count: 3,912

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RE: 2 back pistol offense

Posted: 4/21/2016 8:39:40 AM

What is "fresh" is that we now have a stable of running backs that provide the depth. Running backs that now better understand the playbook and their responsibilities on and off the field AND can be relied upon to hold onto the ball.

Monroe Slavin
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

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RE: 2 back pistol offense

Posted: 4/21/2016 10:14:02 AM

It's amazing how orthodox you SFB are.

If our coaches and their mediocre ways kept Jim Brown on the bench and stated the the sun rises in the south, you wouldn't question it.

Last Edited: 4/21/2016 10:14:25 AM by Monroe Slavin

cc-cat
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Member Since: 4/5/2006
Location: matthews, NC
Post Count: 3,912

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RE: 2 back pistol offense

Posted: 4/21/2016 10:20:14 AM

#evenwhenheistoldsomethingbysomeonepurportedtobeaparent
ofacurrentplayerandthatinformationisconfirmedbyother
sourcesheignoresitbecauseitdoesntfithisnarrative

LuckySparrow
General User

Member Since: 10/15/2012
Location: Illinois
Post Count: 1,750

Status: Offline

RE: 2 back pistol offense

Posted: 4/21/2016 12:25:47 PM

Freshen up your sarcasm detector, Monroe.

What a day at the Convo.....Wow!

Monroe Slavin
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

Status: Offline

RE: 2 back pistol offense

Posted: 4/21/2016 6:28:43 PM

Really--I don't recall any behavior allegations against any of our running backs over the last couple of years. Am I missing something.

I did have someone pm me last season, claiming to be the parent of a player. That person was highly complimentary of one of our running backs.

Look, if a guy is a discipline problem, then he shouldn't be in uniform.

But if he's in uniform, and he's amply talented, then he should play...Amply talented, being the basis for two-back sets...which we should have seen already.

I don't buy for a moment that any of our running backs can't block or don't know the plays. Running back is one of the easy positions to play. And, if a running back is moving the offense...or eminently capable of that...then play him....Take that abundance of talent and put it on the field: Where have the two back sets been, then?

Robert Fox
General User

Member Since: 11/16/2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
Post Count: 2,039

Status: Offline

RE: 2 back pistol offense

Posted: 4/21/2016 6:56:09 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Am I missing something.

You're missing a lot. And you know it. You don't know what's going on inside this team. Not a single clue. But hey, keep slinging it against the wall. Maybe something will stick.

Monroe Slavin
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

Status: Offline

RE: 2 back pistol offense

Posted: 4/21/2016 7:14:22 PM

You are correct. I have no inside knowledge. I'm some 3000 miles away with no connection to the team.

In contrast, you insiders (and apparently you are one in your view, right, Robert?) appear to be biased by your inside connections. Because the lack of reasonably objective appreciation for the 3-4 year times we've gotten destroyed over the last four years (by the, for the most part, not very good teams) is stunning.

And, if people are going to rely on 'inside info' without much giving details, then how am I supposed to refute that?

Again, if the guys are in uniform, I assume that behavior is not a problem.

Then, all I'm left with is what I see on the field.

Which I judge reasonably objectively. I was about Solich's biggest fan until about a year after the smashing losses began.

Now, in light of new and obseravble info (the continuing bad losses), I've re-assessed.

How in the name of the deity of your choice can anyone argue with or against unstated 'inside information'?

Having inside info would seem to mean that you should state it clearly and explicitly here so we can all discuss it. Or, being unwilling to share such info (which may be understandable), you should not post here as you are providing a wall whereas these are 'discussion' threads. Can be no discussion if one side will state conclusions on inside info but refuse to divulge that info.

Do you play poker with people who tell you what hand they have but refuse to show their cards?

Robert Fox
General User

Member Since: 11/16/2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
Post Count: 2,039

Status: Offline

RE: 2 back pistol offense

Posted: 4/21/2016 7:30:01 PM

The only one spouting theories is you. Your criticism of me and "insiders" is this: I never claimed to be an insider, and more importantly, I've never speculated on these pages and tried to pass it off as fact. You do that constantly. You don't know if there was a behavior problem or not. We do have some potentially inside information to support that possibility. Bottom line: we don't know. We're not SUPPOSED to know. It's team information.

Your theory that "there can't be discipline problems or he wouldn't be dressed out" is ridiculous. Clearly, there are degrees of punishment. Perhaps there has been an infraction that warrants reduced playing time but not being kicked off the team.

Honestly, you know all this. But your arguments DEMAND these basic responses. I'm not sold on the story--that discipline kept this player off the field. But, I'm not willing to deny it either. It may be true. It may not be. I'm sure as hell not going to stake a claim to one side or the other and then post endlessly to support that position.

I don't know how you enjoy following this team. It's like work for you. The only thing that seems to motivate you is arguing your Fire Frank Solich mantra. With every new topic, you respond with Fire Frank! In this off season, from time to time, even good, legitimate topics crop up from time to time, and you still can't get off your soap box. Fire Frank! I'm The ONLY One Who Recognizes This! Fire Frank! I'm a Genius! Fire Frank! Two-Back Sets! Fire Frank! He's Too Conservative! Fire Frank! I'm Not Calling For Anyone's Head Per Se! Fire Frank! Yada, yada, yada...

Monroe Slavin
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

Status: Offline

RE: 2 back pistol offense

Posted: 4/21/2016 7:38:06 PM

Repeat: Having no inside info and no bias for or against any player or coach, I judge on what I see.

This may confuse you but: I don't judge on what I don't and cannot see.

When I see underwhelming performance, I comment.

Note that I rarely criticize the players as they are, more or less, amateurs. The coaches are paid and criticism comes with that.

Note2: I've never initiated any post about player discipline or unreadiness. I have only responded to those who've stated or implied same.

They follow this tact: There's inside info. It's secret, so I can't reveal it. But, I'm basing my post on it. Since my post is based on secret inside info, it's both correct and you cannot possibly refute anything in my post.

That's a great basis for an exchange of ideas.

Last Edited: 4/21/2016 7:41:22 PM by Monroe Slavin

Robert Fox
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Member Since: 11/16/2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
Post Count: 2,039

Status: Offline

RE: 2 back pistol offense

Posted: 4/21/2016 7:47:33 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

This may confuse you but: I don't judge on what I don't and cannot see.

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Look, if a guy is a discipline problem, then he shouldn't be in uniform.

But if he's in uniform, and he's amply talented, then he should play...Amply talented, being the basis for two-back sets...which we should have seen already.

Here you go. You say you don't judge on what you can't see. And yet, here you are moments earlier "judging" whether or not a player was eligible to play. You knew there was a rumor that this particular player may have been in the doghouse. But you decided, somehow, that if he's dressed out then he's perfectly eligible. Why? Because you say so.

You judge all day long on things you cannot see. I don't believe you have the ability to watch a handful of Hulu videos on a running back and judge his talent level to be superior to other running backs on this team. I question whether full-time coaches can do that, never mind average fans. Takes a lot of arrogance to stake a claim that deep in the sand, especially when your foundation is knee deep in BS.

Monroe Slavin
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

Status: Offline

RE: 2 back pistol offense

Posted: 4/21/2016 8:24:11 PM

Sorry, I couldn't hear what you just said. Could you repeat it, please?

Your steadfast determination to adhere to your point of view and be right without regard to evidence is impressive.

You're mis-characterizing my viewpoints in an impressive way, also.

I get it. Solich and staff know worlds more than I ever could. That they've achieved truly mediocre to average over 11 years in a weak conference should not be part of their evaluation, should not bring into question the knowledge of Solich and staff.

How many years no-MACC before we can question?

Robert Fox
General User

Member Since: 11/16/2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
Post Count: 2,039

Status: Offline

RE: 2 back pistol offense

Posted: 4/21/2016 9:14:34 PM

That's the problem with your argument. I'm not making a point about this team. I'm reacting to your point about this team.

You're so neck-deep in trying to hammer your point, you will accept only one response from people--total agreement. And yet, you claim it is others who are hopelessly entrenched.

I get the impression you're doing this because you like to rile people, not necessarily because you buy into your own BS. It's like the radio hosts who stake outrageous positions because they know it will generate callers.

Is that the game you're playing?

mid70sbobcat
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 722

Status: Offline

RE: 2 back pistol offense

Posted: 4/21/2016 9:49:51 PM

Robert Fox wrote:

Robert - The only way to deal with Monroe is (1) not reply since he doesn't deal with facts a lot of the time or (2) if we had an IGNORE button to not have to read the repetitive drivel.

The only thing Monroe needs to understand is that players do dress for games when there are discipline issues. And there have been times when players didn't play due to said discipline problems. And some of them are known to the public but I guess Monroe likes to just shoot from the hip and pretend some issues don't occur. I guess that's what it's like to live in fantasy land.

OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,401

Status: Offline

RE: 2 back pistol offense

Posted: 4/21/2016 10:40:12 PM

cc-cat wrote:

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

Bobcatzblitz
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Member Since: 7/21/2010
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RE: 2 back pistol offense

Posted: 4/22/2016 3:52:01 AM

Depth means basically nothing for the OL. The guys that start usually play the majority of the snaps

sargentfan
General User

Member Since: 3/16/2005
Post Count: 917

Status: Offline

RE: 2 back pistol offense

Posted: 4/22/2016 10:12:11 AM

Ugh my thread has become a wasteland, I wanted to talk about the possibilities of the formation and instead its a pissing contest. :/

Bcat2
General User

Member Since: 7/6/2010
Post Count: 4,295

Status: Offline

RE: 2 back pistol offense

Posted: 4/22/2016 10:25:51 AM

sargentfan wrote:

Ugh my thread has become a wasteland, I wanted to talk about the possibilities of the formation and instead its a pissing contest. :/

Nice try though. Such is BA.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

OhioStunter
General User

Member Since: 2/18/2005
Location: Chicago
Post Count: 2,516

Status: Offline

RE: 2 back pistol offense

Posted: 4/22/2016 11:00:48 AM

sargentfan wrote:

Ugh my thread has become a wasteland, I wanted to talk about the possibilities of the formation and instead its a pissing contest. :/

Pistol --> Pissing

Same first syllable.

L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 10,470

Status: Offline

RE: 2 back pistol offense

Posted: 4/22/2016 12:21:20 PM

Bobcatzblitz wrote:

Depth means basically nothing for the OL. The guys that start usually play the majority of the snaps

That was certainly true under Lightner, but it seemed to be a self-fulfilling thing. He had no depth, so he mostly played the starters, so he had no depth. Johnson has made more frequent use of the backups. Is he using backups more because he has better depth? Or, is he developing better depth because he is using the backups more?

In any case, depth is certainly of value even when starters play the majority of the snaps. First, linemen do get hurt. What do you do then, if you have no depth? As an example, Sherman, today I've set the way-back machine to October 8, 2005. After a promising start, with a win over Pitt, and a 1-0 record in the MAC, three Bobcat starters go down to injury in one five minute period against BG. With no depth, the season goes south in a hurry, and the Bobcats lose 5 of the last 7, unable to do much offensively.

The other reason why depth is important is for maintaining continuity from year to year. If you want to be successful, year after year, you can't constantly be rebuilding every year on the offensive line. You need to build depth, so that when players leave, there are players behind them ready to step up. That was something Lightner was never able to do as well as I had hoped, but I'm optimistic that Johnson will finally accomplish this.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

cc-cat
General User

Member Since: 4/5/2006
Location: matthews, NC
Post Count: 3,912

Status: Offline

RE: 2 back pistol offense

Posted: 4/22/2016 4:42:36 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Really--I don't recall any behavior allegations against any of our running backs over the last couple of years. Am I missing something.

There was a known off the field issue handled by the police - this appears to be very much a thing of the past. (That sever of an issue receives one level of discipline, other issues are addressed differently. I do not know of "inside the team" issues - nor would most of us.)

Monroe Slavin wrote:

I did have someone pm me last season, claiming to be the parent of a player. That person was highly complimentary of one of our running backs.

May want to reread your PM to me on 12/20 re: understanding the playbook - something that has been echoed by others.

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Running back is one of the easy positions to play.

This speaks volumes.

I was traveling today and listened to Sirius radio. They had guy from Toronto call in and he was talking about that area hosting a series of camps this summer where the HS players will play American rules. Apparently Canadian HS plays CFL rules - 65 yard wide field, 3 downs, etc. I did not realize this. It really sheds light on the HUGE jump Irons has made going from a small Canadian HS to Ohio. Completely different game. I can only imagine how dominant he was against small school teams on a 65 yard wide field!!

Again, as has been stated, Irons has become the player they/we all hoped on and off the field. Good things ahead. We now have the players in place and ready to go to make our running game hit on all cylinders in single and 2 back packages.

Last Edited: 4/22/2016 4:45:42 PM by cc-cat

Monroe Slavin
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

Status: Offline

RE: 2 back pistol offense

Posted: 4/22/2016 5:58:18 PM

You strike me as another SFB who believes everything that the coaching staff says...or is alleged to have said.

And who refuses to see the results on the field..to acknowledge what they are and that they are the ultimate standard. Who refuses to consider anything that counters the coaches being infallible.

If a guy doesn't know the playbook nearly two years in, then he probably never will.

The playbook is either very complicated...or very simple. Because it doesn't much work: See the results on the field.

Hmm. If a player can't see the field because he doesn't know the playbook, then why should a coach keep his job if 11 years in his last four years contain a slew of crushing defeats. He must not still know the coaching playbook.

here come the SFB to storm at me

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