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Topic:  Fact 2 (by popular demand)

Topic:  Fact 2 (by popular demand)
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Monroe Slavin
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Location: Oxnard, CA
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  Message Not Read  Fact 2 (by popular demand)
   Posted: 2/20/2016 2:20:43 AM 
Name / Sport / Tenure / No. of MAC championships (tournament if is a tourney)

Rob Smith / Baseball / 3 / 1
Saul / Men hoop / 1+ / 0
Solich / Football / 11 / 0
Boldon / Women hoop 2+ / 1
Rodgers / Soccer (women) 3 / 0
Hermanek / Softball 7 / 1
Komisarz-Baugh / SwimDive 2 / 0
Webb / Volleyball 2 / 1

Can't readily find info on cross country (men or women), golf (men or women), track & field. Don't really compete in MAC in wrestling as far as I can tell. Neil MacMillan apparently about 11 years for field hockey with four league titles??

Did this quickly so my numbers may not be perfect.

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!


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TWT
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Location: Alexandria, VA
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  Message Not Read  RE: Fact 2 (by popular demand)
   Posted: 2/20/2016 8:39:12 AM 
Wrestling is in the Top 25 so enough said there. Frank is at Ohio so long that he doesn't need 1 MAC title he needs 2 of them to give the fans a warm and fuzzy.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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The Situation
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Location: Columbus, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Fact 2 (by popular demand)
   Posted: 2/20/2016 8:57:57 AM 
I couldn't resist:

Gary Pinkel/Mizzu/15/0 (2000-2015) "Retired"
Steve Spurrier/S. Carolina/11/0 (2005-2015) "Retired"
Mark Richt/Georgia/5/2 (2002-2005)
Mark Richt/Georgia/10/0 (2006-2015) "Fired"
Bronco Mendenhall/BYU/3/2 (2005-2007)
Bronco Mendenhall/BYU/8/0 (2008-2015) "Left School"
Pat Fitzgerald/NW/10/0 (2006-2015)
Rick Stockstill/MTSU/1/1 (2006)
Rick Stockstill/MTSU/9/0 (2007-2015)
David Bailiff/Rice/6/0 (2007-2012)
David Bailiff/Rice/3/1 (2013-2015)
Paul Johnson/Ga. Tech/2/1 (2008-2009)
Paul Johnson/Ga. Tech/6/0 (2010-2015)
Ken Niumatalolo/Navy/9/0 (2007-2015)
Brian Kelly/Notre Dame/6/0 (2010-2015)
Mike London/Virginia/6/0 (2010-2015) "Fired"
Todd Berry/La. Monroe/6/0 (2010-2015) "Fired"

We are not alone. (And yes I'm aware the 3 independents are listed --- it's still a fact they didn't win a conference championship. Some have argued that's allegedly the main point of playing college football)

But looking at the facts. Rick Stockstill might just be the smoking gun.

He won a conference championship at MTSU his first season and none in the 9 years since. His base salary is $721,000 and his contract was just extended from 2021 to 2023 in 2015.

Frank's base salary is $488,000.

So know we there's a guy on the market right now who make 47% more than our football coach and hasn't won a conference championship nine (9) years. Despite this fact he's getting an extension.

Good luck finding your purple squirrel for less money.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_squirrel
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TWT
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Location: Alexandria, VA
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  Message Not Read  RE: Fact 2 (by popular demand)
   Posted: 2/20/2016 9:44:38 AM 
The Solich regime going on 12 years is the 4th longest in the nation tied with Mike Gundy at Oklahoma State and Les Miles at LSU. Gundy and Miles have both won conference championships. It obviously could be better at Ohio.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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The Situation
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  Message Not Read  RE: Fact 2 (by popular demand)
   Posted: 2/20/2016 9:54:06 AM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
The Solich regime going on 12 years is the 4th longest in the nation tied with Mike Gundy at Oklahoma State and Les Miles at LSU. Gundy and Miles have both won conference championships. It obviously could be better at Ohio.


I agree. It's obvious to me it could be better at Ohio.

But I don't agree that statement is anymore useful or revealing than saying the sky is blue.

Or more on topic, it could be better at Georgia. It could be better at Mizzu. It could be better at Middle Tennessee State.

Last Edited: 2/20/2016 9:59:32 AM by The Situation
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The Situation
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  Message Not Read  RE: Fact 2 (by popular demand)
   Posted: 2/20/2016 10:12:32 AM 
The iron triangle:

-scope
-schedule
-budget

This is the foundation of goal oriented projects. Pick 2 and and the 3rd reacts beyond your control. The iron triangle is as important to project managers that produce results as water is to farmers.

If you want a shorter schedule to achieve the scope, you no longer get to pick the budget. The schedule and scope drives the budget. Other combinations are affected in the same way.

Right now Ohio sets the scope and the budget but not the schedule.

So if you want as close of a guarantee you can get to a MACC in the next 5 years, the market will set the price, not you Monroe.

I have done no research on what the budget would be. My first thought is it would start by doubling the coaching positions base salary.

Last Edited: 2/20/2016 10:14:56 AM by The Situation
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TWT
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  Message Not Read  RE: Fact 2 (by popular demand)
   Posted: 2/20/2016 10:15:30 AM 
The Situation wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
The Solich regime going on 12 years is the 4th longest in the nation tied with Mike Gundy at Oklahoma State and Les Miles at LSU. Gundy and Miles have both won conference championships. It obviously could be better at Ohio.


I agree. It's obvious to me it could be better at Ohio.

But I don't agree that statement is anymore useful or revealing than saying the sky is blue.

Or more on topic, it could be better at Georgia. It could be better at Mizzu. It could be better at Middle Tennessee State.


If I understand correctly this is an Ohio Bobcat board where we are talking about challenges related to the Ohio Bobcat program. The next level here isn't getting to a bowl game or packing Peden for homecoming as the program is already doing that. It's winning the conference championship.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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The Situation
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Location: Columbus, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Fact 2 (by popular demand)
   Posted: 2/20/2016 10:21:48 AM 
Uncle Wes wrote:

If I understand correctly this is an Ohio Bobcat board where we are talking about challenges related to the Ohio Bobcat program. The next level here isn't getting to a bowl game or packing Peden for homecoming as the program is already doing that. It's winning the conference championship.


See my explanation of the iron triangle which establishes why the market (every school but Ohio) sets the price.

You want to get a conference champioship? You pick the schedule and scope. We then have to look at the market to see what it will cost.

That's why I refer to Rick Stockstill as the smoking gun. He's making 47% more base salary than Frank for no championships in 9 seasons.

We've talked about the schedule and scope for days. But someone explain the market appraisal of the required budget

Last Edited: 2/20/2016 10:22:50 AM by The Situation
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TWT
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  Message Not Read  RE: Fact 2 (by popular demand)
   Posted: 2/20/2016 10:39:07 AM 
The Situation wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:

If I understand correctly this is an Ohio Bobcat board where we are talking about challenges related to the Ohio Bobcat program. The next level here isn't getting to a bowl game or packing Peden for homecoming as the program is already doing that. It's winning the conference championship.


See my explanation of the iron triangle which establishes why the market (every school but Ohio) sets the price.

You want to get a conference champioship? You pick the schedule and scope. We then have to look at the market to see what it will cost.

That's why I refer to Rick Stockstill as the smoking gun. He's making 47% more base salary than Frank for no championships in 9 seasons.

We've talked about the schedule and scope for days. But someone explain the market appraisal of the required budget


Pay is tied to conference norms. You can't compare the pay of a coach from another conference to one of the MAC's because its comparing apples to oranges. There is an attempt to nationalize the game of college football but its still very much a conference by conference sport. Schedule wise I think you can give a coach 6 years to fully populate his program with his players an his schemes. The scope for a MACC includes an offense that is potent enough to win games and that is where Frank is failing.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Fact 2 (by popular demand)
   Posted: 2/20/2016 10:52:19 AM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
Name / Sport / Tenure / No. of MAC championships (tournament if is a tourney)

Rob Smith / Baseball / 3 / 1
Saul / Men hoop / 1+ / 0
Solich / Football / 11 / 0
Boldon / Women hoop 2+ / 1
Rodgers / Soccer (women) 3 / 0
Hermanek / Softball 7 / 1
Komisarz-Baugh / SwimDive 2 / 0
Webb / Volleyball 2 / 1

What I like is that each of these coaches have raised their program from the dust to prominence and relevance. And also all suppport the ongoing employment of Frank.
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The Situation
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  Message Not Read  RE: Fact 2 (by popular demand)
   Posted: 2/20/2016 10:53:35 AM 
Uncle Wes wrote:


Pay is tied to conference norms. You can't compare the pay of a coach from another conference to one of the MAC's because its comparing apples to oranges.


That's right. I forgot the scope of the "next level" has been so narrowly defined that a team such as Buffalo briefly reached the "next level" in 2008 with a MACC.

Can you define the scope of the "next level" by the way?

Relative to only the MAC is OHIO spending the most on football? Have they opened their checkbooks to the market? Has Ohio demonstrated their scope and schedule dictates their budget?

If not, then clearly Ohio has set their own scope and budget. Therefore they have no justified complaints about the schedule.
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The Situation
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  Message Not Read  RE: Fact 2 (by popular demand)
   Posted: 2/20/2016 11:13:40 AM 
Or maybe Ohio has set their schedule and budget.

They want to operate for the forseeable future, so they set a budget. And the market sets the scope that's achievable (not Ohio).
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TWT
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  Message Not Read  RE: Fact 2 (by popular demand)
   Posted: 2/20/2016 12:32:35 PM 
The Situation wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:


Pay is tied to conference norms. You can't compare the pay of a coach from another conference to one of the MAC's because its comparing apples to oranges.


That's right. I forgot the scope of the "next level" has been so narrowly defined that a team such as Buffalo briefly reached the "next level" in 2008 with a MACC.

Can you define the scope of the "next level" by the way?

Relative to only the MAC is OHIO spending the most on football? Have they opened their checkbooks to the market? Has Ohio demonstrated their scope and schedule dictates their budget?


The next level is a school by school basis. In football we all understand takes longer than basketball and some of the other sports because of the five year redshirts, medical redshirts and the 2 year recruiting cycle. From the depths of the MAC it could take reasonably 6 years and if I were the AD at a place like Miami or EMU I'd give my coach a full 6 to see if they can make progress. Frank made substantial progress in his first 6 years no question about it. Frank up until recently has been the highest paid coach in the MAC. Beginning with Frank's hire the football operating budget was increased to the level it needed to be for the student athletes to compete. Improvements were made to Peden Tower and money was raised for an IPF and an academic center. Great equipment deal with Russel. The upgrades to compete at the major college level have already been made. On salaries, Ball State's new coach has come in for less money than Lembo was making and BG's new coach is making $425,000 which is less than Babers. What this is telling me is that salaries in the MAC are beginning to level off. The next coach after Solich will probably be making about the same regardless of how strong his incoming resume is. The great football run up at Ohio has already happened.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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The Situation
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  Message Not Read  RE: Fact 2 (by popular demand)
   Posted: 2/20/2016 12:55:39 PM 
I understand that MAC schools are at different levels. But I hope you're not suggesting the levels are undefined, because that's a game no one can win.

So I'm asking what is the scope of the next level Ohio can achieve (a level theoretically achievable by all MAC schools)? Please reference quantifiable criteria. I don't believe there's a right or wrong answer. But there's no point of talking about where we need to go if we can't even clearly define the goals.

As for the iron triangle. Yes Ohio paid Frank at the top of the MAC years ago. But I don't think any evidence suggests Ohio let the market set the budget. Moreover the budget is more than just the salary of the head coach.

I don't know who has the highest football expenses in the MAC. I know it's not Ohio. For that reason we can say for certain that Ohio has set their budget.

The only market variable at play is schedule or scope. We don't know which of these the Athletic Department has chosen, but we know with absolute certainty that no one can choose scope, schedule, AND budget.

Last Edited: 2/20/2016 12:55:54 PM by The Situation
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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Fact 2 (by popular demand)
   Posted: 2/20/2016 1:58:41 PM 


So, you're saying that Fact 2(a) should be by program, stating the # of MAC titles by sport for OHIO over the last 11 years (the tenure of our football coach)?

I think swim/dive, volleyball, hoops and others may start to stack them up on such an analysis.


I think that we all want football to get off the goose egg.




remember: if you don't like this post, it's your fault for hitting the 'ignore' button.

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!


DesignspiritUSA.com
The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags
The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping!

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The Situation
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Location: Columbus, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Fact 2 (by popular demand)
   Posted: 2/20/2016 2:03:23 PM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
So, you're saying that Fact 2(a) should be by program, stating the # of MAC titles by sport for OHIO over the last 11 years (the tenure of our football coach)?

I think swim/dive, volleyball, hoops and others may start to stack them up on such an analysis.


I think that we all want football to get off the goose egg.




remember: if you don't like this post, it's your fault for hitting the 'ignore' button.



what?
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OUcats82
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  Message Not Read  RE: Fact 2 (by popular demand)
   Posted: 2/22/2016 10:09:35 AM 
FACT

Bears eat beets!

Ohio-The State University
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mf279801
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  Message Not Read  RE: Fact 2 (by popular demand)
   Posted: 2/22/2016 11:45:31 AM 
OUcats82 wrote:
FACT

Bears eat beets!


Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.
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