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Topic:  The Solich Offense

Topic:  The Solich Offense
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TWT
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  Message Not Read  The Solich Offense
   Posted: 2/20/2016 2:05:07 PM 
With us entrenched in the offseason and while I have some time to post it, I've decided to share some info I've had on the offensive production by thee program. Its the basis behind my opinion that the Solich offense isn't potent enough to get the job done. The offense is losing more ground every year as offenses across the country become more explosive. I'll show two numbers next to the ppg outputs. One number is the national rank of the output in that year. The second number is where that output rank in 2015. Solich's offense in 2015 numbers has averaged almost the bottom 1/3 percentile of FBS (36.6) in 11 years in Athens.

2005 17.5ppg #106 (117)
2006 19.0ppg #84 (113)
2007 30.0ppg #45 (54)
2008 21.6ppg #87 (106)
2009 24.5ppg #73 (87)
2010 27.0ppg #55 (66)
2011 30.5ppg #34 (51)
2012 30.7ppg #48 (45)
2013 26.5ppg #72 (73)
2014 19.3ppg #115 (113)
2015 26.9ppg #67 (67)

Solich Offense Avg Rank 71.5 (81.1)
National Percentile 44.1 (36.6)

https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/points...

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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Solich Offense
   Posted: 2/20/2016 2:50:54 PM 
Defense Wins Championships.

There are games that got away for lack of offense, credit the opponent's defense.

There are games that got away for lack of defense, credit the opponent's offense.

For some reason I never see Ohio fans credit the opponent. The Blame Game is the favorite of the loudest on BA.

I doubt you will ever see a Solich team lead the MAC in offense. The Solich plan is to gain control and end the game. Usually, Run the Ball, Stop the Run, Win the game. He will never run up a score. He is not motivated by the next job, so, he will leave that to coaches trying to pad their stats. So the only thing that matters is contending.


"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Solich Offense
   Posted: 2/20/2016 3:59:22 PM 


IS INCREDIBLY PREDICTABLE.


IS OFFENSIVE.





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TWT
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Solich Offense
   Posted: 2/20/2016 4:19:49 PM 
Bcat2 wrote:
Defense Wins Championships.

There are games that got away for lack of offense, credit the opponent's defense.

There are games that got away for lack of defense, credit the opponent's offense.

For some reason I never see Ohio fans credit the opponent. The Blame Game is the favorite of the loudest on BA.

I doubt you will ever see a Solich team lead the MAC in offense. The Solich plan is to gain control and end the game. Usually, Run the Ball, Stop the Run, Win the game. He will never run up a score. He is not motivated by the next job, so, he will leave that to coaches trying to pad their stats. So the only thing that matters is contending.


If Ohio could combine the blue collar defensive players with a coach that has an exceptional offense it would be in a New Year's bowl. I'd like to see Ohio go after an OC from Boise State. It worked for Arkansas State who hired a Boise State OC and a year later won the SBC conference. I've been following the Bobcats for 20 years and we've always had a good defense and talent because that is the character of the state. Ohio St. is the same way every year but now they have Urban Meyer, the architect of the potent Bowling Green offense in the early 2000's. Solich's success in Athens could be done by almost any old coach that runs a clean program. It just isn't that hard with the in-state talent.

Last Edited: 2/20/2016 4:23:01 PM by TWT

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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Solich Offense
   Posted: 2/20/2016 7:58:08 PM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Defense Wins Championships.

There are games that got away for lack of offense, credit the opponent's defense.

There are games that got away for lack of defense, credit the opponent's offense.

For some reason I never see Ohio fans credit the opponent. The Blame Game is the favorite of the loudest on BA.

I doubt you will ever see a Solich team lead the MAC in offense. The Solich plan is to gain control and end the game. Usually, Run the Ball, Stop the Run, Win the game. He will never run up a score. He is not motivated by the next job, so, he will leave that to coaches trying to pad their stats. So the only thing that matters is contending.


If Ohio could combine the blue collar defensive players with a coach that has an exceptional offense it would be in a New Year's bowl. I'd like to see Ohio go after an OC from Boise State. It worked for Arkansas State who hired a Boise State OC and a year later won the SBC conference. I've been following the Bobcats for 20 years and we've always had a good defense and talent because that is the character of the state. Ohio St. is the same way every year but now they have Urban Meyer, the architect of the potent Bowling Green offense in the early 2000's. Solich's success in Athens could be done by almost any old coach that runs a clean program. It just isn't that hard with the in-state talent.



The defense does not hold in a lot of big games. When we play the teams we are supposed to beat, the defense looks great. We get real conservative on Offense and Defense in big games and we get smoked. We need new schemes on offense and defense, the kids have the heart. The pregame losing speeches have to stop, like we have to play perfect to beat Minnesota, that creates a psyche, when things go wrong, uh oh, we will lose. We have to expect to win, then we will play like it. We have to believe and be relentless on the field and in the living room.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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MonroeClassmate
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Solich Offense
   Posted: 2/20/2016 11:40:33 PM 
Bcat2 wrote:


For some reason I never see Ohio fans credit the opponent. The Blame Game is the favorite of the loudest on BA.




Come now Bcat2, you aren't serious with this comment are you? We NEVER credited Babers and his BG team for having an exciting, imaginative, diversified offense that caused OUr defense and most every defense it faced, fits?

That's what those who are bitchin want--it has been witnessed, explosive offenses are lurking in the MAC. Credit has been given to these programs; lets see some "Speed Chess" as Babers called it, at OHIO.
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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Solich Offense
   Posted: 2/21/2016 12:18:09 AM 
MonroeClassmate wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:


For some reason I never see Ohio fans credit the opponent. The Blame Game is the favorite of the loudest on BA.




Come now Bcat2, you aren't serious with this comment are you? We NEVER credited Babers and his BG team for having an exciting, imaginative, diversified offense that caused OUr defense and most every defense it faced, fits?

That's what those who are bitchin want--it has been witnessed, explosive offenses are lurking in the MAC. Credit has been given.




Show me. Cut and paste some credit allowed, perhaps a congratulation or two.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Solich Offense
   Posted: 2/21/2016 1:50:27 AM 



Why then so difficult to recall the OHIO All-MAC elected defensive players?

Or offensive side players?

Where's the band?!
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TWT
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Solich Offense
   Posted: 2/21/2016 10:20:37 AM 
allen wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Defense Wins Championships.

There are games that got away for lack of offense, credit the opponent's defense.

There are games that got away for lack of defense, credit the opponent's offense.

For some reason I never see Ohio fans credit the opponent. The Blame Game is the favorite of the loudest on BA.

I doubt you will ever see a Solich team lead the MAC in offense. The Solich plan is to gain control and end the game. Usually, Run the Ball, Stop the Run, Win the game. He will never run up a score. He is not motivated by the next job, so, he will leave that to coaches trying to pad their stats. So the only thing that matters is contending.


If Ohio could combine the blue collar defensive players with a coach that has an exceptional offense it would be in a New Year's bowl. I'd like to see Ohio go after an OC from Boise State. It worked for Arkansas State who hired a Boise State OC and a year later won the SBC conference. I've been following the Bobcats for 20 years and we've always had a good defense and talent because that is the character of the state. Ohio St. is the same way every year but now they have Urban Meyer, the architect of the potent Bowling Green offense in the early 2000's. Solich's success in Athens could be done by almost any old coach that runs a clean program. It just isn't that hard with the in-state talent.



The defense does not hold in a lot of big games. When we play the teams we are supposed to beat, the defense looks great. We get real conservative on Offense and Defense in big games and we get smoked. We need new schemes on offense and defense, the kids have the heart. The pregame losing speeches have to stop, like we have to play perfect to beat Minnesota, that creates a psyche, when things go wrong, uh oh, we will lose. We have to expect to win, then we will play like it. We have to believe and be relentless on the field and in the living room.


Don't you think some of those defensive breakdowns are caused by a defense that is gassed because the offense can't move the ball? Ohio was 48th last year in scoring defense which is in the 63rd percentile. That's an acceptable performance only 12 ppg behind Alabama. Offense was 20ppg behind Baylor and only in the 52nd percentile. All the quality wins by Ohio last year were because of a strong defensive performance. Akron, NIU, Marshall, Miami, Kent State. Okay things opened up for Idaho with that magical Irons TD run but that was an unusual offensively led game by Solich standards.

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Cats-22
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Solich Offense
   Posted: 2/21/2016 11:05:10 AM 
Here is how Ohio's offense ranked in points scored compared to what our opponents gave up in 2015. That is, our 45 against Idaho was 7th out of their 12 opponents. Whereas our 29 against App State was the 4th most anyone scored on them.

I grouped the games together because it does look like Ohio's offense played better in the first four, and especially the last four (setting aside NIU when both teams were down two QBs and Ohio was playing ball control).

Idaho 7/12
Marshall 5/13
SE LA 1/11
Minn 7/13

Akron 9/13
Miami 7/12
WMU 10/13
Buffalo 9/12
BGSU 9/14

Kent 5/12
BSU 4/12
NIU 9/14
App St 4/13
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PhiTau74
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Solich Offense
   Posted: 2/21/2016 1:54:39 PM 
Pretty funny conversation that defense wins championships when the national championship game was Alabama 45 and Clemson 40.
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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Solich Offense
   Posted: 2/21/2016 2:42:21 PM 
PhiTau74 wrote:
Pretty funny conversation that defense wins championships when the national championship game was Alabama 45 and Clemson 40.


Peel the onion.

2015 FBS Defensive stats.

Total Defense Alabama 3rd, Clemson 10th, Akron 15th
Scoring Defense Alabama 3rd, Clemson 24th
Rushing Defense Alabama 1st, Clemson 18th
Defensive TDs Buffalo 2nd, Alabama & Ohio & App State 8th, Clemson 44th
Turnovers Gained NIU 8th, Akron, 9th, Marshall 10th, Alabama 13th, Clemson 24th
Pass Efficiency Defense Marshall 4th, Alabama 8th, Clemson 11th
Passes Intercepted NIU 4th, BGSU 8th, Alabama 10th, Clemson 21st
Red Zone Defense App State 1st, Toledo 2nd, Marshall 8th, CMU 20th. Akron 32nd, Alabama & BGSU & Clemson tied 62nd

Defense Alabama > Clemson

Offense

Rushing Offense App State 6th, Clemson 21st, Alabama 32nd
Scoring Offense BGSU 6th, Clemson 16th, App State 23rd, Alabama 30th,
Total Offense BGSU 4th, Clemson 11th, App State 26th, Alabama 45th

Offense Clemson > Alabama

Head to head Alabama > Clemson. Defense Wins Championships. The better defense won the championship. JMHO


Last Edited: 2/22/2016 7:56:46 AM by Bcat2

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Solich Offense
   Posted: 2/21/2016 7:42:07 PM 
Cats-22 wrote:
...Idaho 7/12
Marshall 5/13
SE LA 1/11
Minn 7/13

Akron 9/13
Miami 7/12
WMU 10/13
Buffalo 9/12
BGSU 9/14

Kent 5/12
BSU 4/12
NIU 9/14
App St 4/13

Thanks. That's a very interesting way to look at the data. For me, offensively the WMU and Buffalo games were the bottom of the barrel, as the offensive line wasn't able to do anything. They show that way on here, too. Then, against BG, the offensive line played better, and the offense was much better after that.

That's part of why I expect the offense to be better this fall. If they can take what they learned against BG, and continue to build on it, the offense will have a good season.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Solich Offense
   Posted: 2/21/2016 10:30:46 PM 
A quality QB solves a lot of offensive problems.
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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Solich Offense
   Posted: 2/21/2016 10:40:03 PM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
allen wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
Defense Wins Championships.

There are games that got away for lack of offense, credit the opponent's defense.

There are games that got away for lack of defense, credit the opponent's offense.

For some reason I never see Ohio fans credit the opponent. The Blame Game is the favorite of the loudest on BA.

I doubt you will ever see a Solich team lead the MAC in offense. The Solich plan is to gain control and end the game. Usually, Run the Ball, Stop the Run, Win the game. He will never run up a score. He is not motivated by the next job, so, he will leave that to coaches trying to pad their stats. So the only thing that matters is contending.


If Ohio could combine the blue collar defensive players with a coach that has an exceptional offense it would be in a New Year's bowl. I'd like to see Ohio go after an OC from Boise State. It worked for Arkansas State who hired a Boise State OC and a year later won the SBC conference. I've been following the Bobcats for 20 years and we've always had a good defense and talent because that is the character of the state. Ohio St. is the same way every year but now they have Urban Meyer, the architect of the potent Bowling Green offense in the early 2000's. Solich's success in Athens could be done by almost any old coach that runs a clean program. It just isn't that hard with the in-state talent.



The defense does not hold in a lot of big games. When we play the teams we are supposed to beat, the defense looks great. We get real conservative on Offense and Defense in big games and we get smoked. We need new schemes on offense and defense, the kids have the heart. The pregame losing speeches have to stop, like we have to play perfect to beat Minnesota, that creates a psyche, when things go wrong, uh oh, we will lose. We have to expect to win, then we will play like it. We have to believe and be relentless on the field and in the living room.


Don't you think some of those defensive breakdowns are caused by a defense that is gassed because the offense can't move the ball? Ohio was 48th last year in scoring defense which is in the 63rd percentile. That's an acceptable performance only 12 ppg behind Alabama. Offense was 20ppg behind Baylor and only in the 52nd percentile. All the quality wins by Ohio last year were because of a strong defensive performance. Akron, NIU, Marshall, Miami, Kent State. Okay things opened up for Idaho with that magical Irons TD run but that was an unusual offensively led game by Solich standards.

The D is good, but our schemes change and get more conservative out of our incredulous respect for so called top teams and we give up points, just like at the end of the Minnesota game. We made their tailback look like Mike Rozier.

Last Edited: 2/21/2016 10:44:00 PM by allen

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Solich Offense
   Posted: 2/21/2016 10:40:40 PM 
Casper71 wrote:
A quality QB solves a lot of offensive problems.


Quality OL makes any QB appear quality.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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OhioStunter
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Solich Offense
   Posted: 2/22/2016 12:24:42 AM 
Akron's total defense was ranked #15.
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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Solich Offense
   Posted: 2/22/2016 8:04:27 AM 
OhioStunter wrote:
Akron's total defense was ranked #15.


Thanks, I added that in. As I began the research I was only focused on Alabama vs Clemson.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Solich Offense
   Posted: 2/22/2016 10:56:07 AM 
And, making good reads and hitting open receivers makes an average QB better than average.
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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Solich Offense
   Posted: 2/22/2016 7:05:23 PM 
In MAC for OHIO, I bet that there's quite a close correlation between losing and experience of opposition's qb.


We sure as heck seem to get picked apart by a lot of MAC qb's ...espec ones who aren't so physically talented but are experienced.

THIS HAS TO STOP.

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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Solich Offense
   Posted: 2/23/2016 4:55:04 AM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
In MAC for OHIO, I bet that there's quite a close correlation between losing and experience of opposition's qb.


We sure as heck seem to get picked apart by a lot of MAC qb's ...espec ones who aren't so physically talented but are experienced.

THIS HAS TO STOP.



+1

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Solich Offense
   Posted: 2/23/2016 7:36:40 AM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
In MAC for OHIO, I bet that there's quite a close correlation between losing and experience of opposition's qb.


We sure as heck seem to get picked apart by a lot of MAC qb's ...espec ones who aren't so physically talented but are experienced.

THIS HAS TO STOP.



Get real Monroe. Alabama had as good a defenses as you will find Rushing D 1st, Total D & Scoring D 3rd and yet Red Zone D was 62d. OMG 62d. I am sure Alabama has some genius fan, not, pointing out that 62d sucks and THIS HAS TO IMPROVE. Well, by God, Ohio really needs a better QB to pick other teams apart, but, by God a good QB from another team can not be allowed to have any success vs Ohio. Riight.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Solich Offense
   Posted: 2/23/2016 10:24:50 AM 
Bcat2, you can tell me that our O issues are on the line or with RBs or TEs or anything else. But, if you seriously don't think many of our issues on offense are related to having no better than average MAC QB play (most recent years) you are beyond help.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Solich Offense
   Posted: 2/23/2016 11:15:42 AM 
Casper71 wrote:
Bcat2, you can tell me that our O issues are on the line or with RBs or TEs or anything else. But, if you seriously don't think many of our issues on offense are related to having no better than average MAC QB play (most recent years) you are beyond help.

I guess you can count me among those "beyond help". I think that the last three years almost all of the offensive problems have been on the offensive line. It's difficult to assess the quarterbacks as a result, particularly since they've been hurt much of the time, or running for their life (think about the Kentucky game, for example).

Let's look at last season. Vick's passing numbers were very good up to the Miami game. In fact, they were on pace for Vick to become the all-time leader in Career Pass Efficiency at Ohio, but when the offensive line imploded against WMU-Buffalo-BG, his passing numbers were awful, and he got hurt as well, so he ended his career at #3, behind Tettleton and Boo Jackson. Meanwhile, when the offensive line was having a field day against Ball State and Northern Illinois, Sprague looked like he was all-MAC until he got hurt at NIU.

When I look at the data, what I see is that when the offensive line has been getting the job done, Ohio's quarterbacks have been among the MAC leaders in pass efficiency, and when the line hasn't been getting the job done, Ohio's quarterbacks have been frustrated and injured. To me that tells me that the offensive line needs to get it together and keep it together, and then the quarterbacks will be fine. What the data doesn't tell me is how good the quarterbacks would be/will be when the offensive line finally does put together a solid season from beginning to end. I hope to find the answer to that this fall, however.

Here are the top 10 seasons ever at Ohio for Pass Efficiency:
1. Tettleton 2011, 148.6
2. Tettleton 2012, 141.2
3. Bob Babbit 1962, 139.4
4. Tettleton 2013, 138.8
5. Boo Jackson 2008, 137.6
6. Sprague 2015, 136.6
7. Boo Jackson 2010, 136.2
8. Vick 2015, 134.0
9. Cleve Bryant 1968, 131.1
10. Vick 2014, 130.9

And, for a little more data, here are the MAC passing leaders from 2015:
1. Matt Johnson, BG 164.2
2. Zach Terrell, WMU 162.3
3. Cooper Rush CMU 144.7
4. Drew Hare, NIU 142.8
5. J.D. Sprague, Ohio 136.6
6. Derrius Vick, Ohio 134.0
7. Phillip Ely, Toledo 131.8
8. Brogan Roback, EMU 125.8
9. Ryan Graham, NIU 124.4
10. T. Woodson, Akron 123.1

When I look at the data, I don't see any evidence at all that QB was the problem. It appears to me that if they solve the problem up front, Ohio's QBs will be very close to the top of the MAC.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: The Solich Offense
   Posted: 2/23/2016 11:33:07 AM 
Casper71 wrote:
Bcat2, you can tell me that our O issues are on the line or with RBs or TEs or anything else. But, if you seriously don't think many of our issues on offense are related to having no better than average MAC QB play (most recent years) you are beyond help.


I believe Bcat's post was defending our defense, not supporting our QB. But good of you to take another shot at him.
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