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Topic: Ohio's Mind Reading Problem: An Approach to Louder Crowds on Gameday

Topic: Ohio's Mind Reading Problem: An Approach to Louder Crowds on Gameday

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The Situation
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Ohio's Mind Reading Problem: An Approach to Louder Crowds on Gameday

Posted: 11/1/2015 11:04:15 AM

[PREFACE: I've wrote at length about Ohio fans focusing on factors within their control. (most recently in my post: "Ain't No Point Getting Out of Bed if You Ain't Living the Dream"). The post below is just one example of how an Ohio fan can attempt to positively change something within their control.]

People can't read minds. Ohio fans who yearn for a more engaged Peden crowd must understand this principle before attempting to impart any significant change.

Before I delve deeper I'll establish my credibility on the topic of crowd noise at sporting events. I'm not an expert but I've been a crowd leader in many capacities over the years.

From high school to college, even a pro game or two, I've lead dozens of crowds in unison to the chants of both the traditional and witty.

As just a bystander I've witnessed crowds that range from some of the quietest college football has to offer (Akron) to some of the loudest (Oregon).

I've been in traditionally quiet crowds that come alive for games that have meaning (NIU and Temple at Ohio, 2009). I've been in traditionally loud crowds that go quiet for games that have very little meaning to the home team (Ohio at Ohio State, Penn State). And I've been in traditionally loud crowds that reach deafening noise levels for games that have much meaning to both teams (Oregon State at Oregon, South Carolina at Clemson).

From my travels I've learned that nothing fundamentally separates the casual fan that's cheering in Oregon or Clemson from the casual fan that's not cheering at Ohio games.

There are three major elements to casual crowd involvement that I list in order of importance:

1. The tradition
2. The opponent
3. The action

Number 2 and 3 are variable and beyond the fan's control. But number 1 is essentially fixed. The "tradition" is the established precedent that casual fan is expected to achieve. The tradition grows as it is the summation of positive contributions from crowd leaders, fans, and alumni over the decades.

The tradition is whats said while the ball is in the air on kick off. The tradition is the interjection to "that team song". The tradition is that yell on the defense's third down. The tradition is that choreographed hand movement after the offense's first down.

The tradition is where Ohio fans yearning for more engaged crowds must focus their attention.

Ohio's tradition is currently bare bones. And this can be attributed in part to number 2 and 3 above. But primarily the tradition at Ohio has been bare bones because no one is asking for tradition.

The crowd leaders that have passed through Ohio University over the years have been too few and far between to sustain any signifanct momentum from one year to the next.

Without compelling competion on the field tens of thousands of casual fans remain silent during games. These fans are silent not because theyre inherently quiet people. They're quiet because no expectation has been set for them to make noise. There's no tradition. And because they can't read minds, there's no reason to expect these fans to make noise until someone asks them to.

The caveat to this problem is Ohio has no reason to expect a consistent flow of crowd leaders through the university over the forseeable future. The lack of competition on the field and the competing product up north is not conducive to a crowd leader producing environment.

In lieu of natural means of creating tradition, Ohio must intervene artificially to solve this problem. And if executed properly, what would've taken decades to produce naturally can be achieved over the course of just one season.

We've seen that casual Ohio fans are open to new traditions that carry over from one year to the next. Only a few seasons ago, the split side "OU Oh Yeah" was implemented by some of the crowd leaders Ohio did have at the time (much respect to them). It appears here to stay.

The artifical method is simple but not guaranteed:

You wheel a guy out to the 50 yard line who gives an impassioned speech a minute or two before the home opener kick off. McDavis could be the right guy for this. I could be the guy for this. Anyone really who speaks with charisma and can convey the vision in a relatable manner can make this work.

The speech is straightforward. But the passion MUST be there. This cant resemble some cheap message from the guy who runs out for a promotion during the time out or PA annoucer's plea for more noise.

The speaker states were starting some new traditions today. The goals are clearly defined. And the speaker asks for the sale at the end.

The goals:

1. Ask the crowd to yell something on kick off ("O..H..I..O" while the ball is in the air would be ideal)

2. Unveil the new third down song that will play on every third down. And ask the crowd to make noise everytime they hear that song (The crowds heard the current song for the umpteenth time. And because of the historically weak participation rate associated with this song, familiarity breeds contempt.)

3. Perhaps even ask for something like a show of four fingers at the start of the 4th quarter to plant the seed that there's actually a second half. If nothing else it forces engagement of the people that are there.

On opening night there is a 100% chance of achieving goal number 1 and 2 during the first half. Sprinkle in the "OU Oh Yeah chant" and in that moment, the incoming freshman can't relate to anything but this specific, engaging Ohio football experience.

Sidebar: I have some other ideas about concentrating the football ozone in a small section of consecutive rows further back behind less engaged students (as opposed to the incredibly inefficient arrangement along the first rows of the sidelines). I won't cover them in this initial post.

Start small and simple. Wheel the same guy out the next week to reinforce the mission statement. I can't guarantee the casual fan will respond well to this approach. But I can guarantee the casual fan cannot read minds.

The casual fan isn't going to give you their involvement until you ask for it.

Last Edited: 11/1/2015 11:41:36 AM by The Situation

L.C.
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RE: Ohio's Mind Reading Problem: An Approach to Louder Crowds on Gameday

Posted: 11/1/2015 1:35:56 PM

The Situation wrote:

...The casual fan isn't going to give you their involvement until you ask for it.

That was a good, well thought out post, with some positive ideas. The last sentence says it best, and is a universal truth of sales. You'll never get the sale if you don't ask for it.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

RPKirtland
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RE: Ohio's Mind Reading Problem: An Approach to Louder Crowds on Gameday

Posted: 11/1/2015 7:44:52 PM

Thanks for making this post. As many of you know, I've been what's been referred to as a "crowd leader" since I arrived as a freshman, even making the original "OU Oh Yeah" signs used. I love this university and I want to see our students give the athletes the support they need to help them exceed at their sport. With that in mind, I am graduating in December, a semester early. Now is a time to find the next generation, and it doesn't seem like there is one yet.

I've been mulling it over for a while, and I'd like to pick the board's brain: what could I do, if anything, in my limited time left to ensure a better atmosphere in years to come?

Went a little too far west, let's go SJ Earthquakes!

RSBobcat
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RE: Ohio's Mind Reading Problem: An Approach to Louder Crowds on Gameday

Posted: 11/1/2015 10:31:02 PM

New video board and speakers would certainly help

RS Bobcat

OhioCatFan
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RE: Ohio's Mind Reading Problem: An Approach to Louder Crowds on Gameday

Posted: 11/1/2015 11:19:23 PM

This post was so good, TS, that I'm breaking my promise to myself to not post anything until tomorrow. After all the histrionics on this board after the Buffalo fiasco I said I wouldn't post until a few days before the BG game, which in my mind was tomorrow (Monday). However, I just have to respond to say that you've articulated ideas that have been in the back of my brain for years, but I never had anything like a plan to actually carry them to fruition, or at least strive to do so. Your ideas make a lot of sense to me.

All I had in my mind was this vague idea that IF the students would become engaged and involved in our athletics we could have such an awesome atmosphere for game day. I know this because I've seen it on rare occasion when the students got really involved and seemed to have something vested psychologically in the outcome. A good example in the Solich Era is the Pitt game -- virtually everyone on both the Tower and student side stayed for the whole game. The students and old farts yelled and beat their thundersticks throughout the game. A nod to the students: they usually started beating the thundersticks and then the old farts took their lead and did likewise on their side. It was an electric atmosphere. We've had other good "atmosphere" games since -- the game against the ranked TU comes to mind and maybe one or two others. But, in general, our fans don't get engaged like that.

I'm one of the few fans in my part of the old fart side that stand up and yell on every defensive third down. One of the others is Bill Hess' daughter and her husband. The sad truth is that many OHIO fans don't really understand the reason for this tradition. The motivational speaker you propose could explain this to them. I'll give you one example of the lack of "football education" at our fine institution. At the recent Minnesota game Colorado66 and I were sitting right in back of a fine young graduate who lived in Texas, I believe it was, and had come to Minnesota just for the game. He said he loved OHIO athletics and that he was a real fanatic fan. He was really into the game, but he kept standing up and yelling on *offensive* third downs. I did not have the heart to tell him he shouldn't do that, not that our little OHIO section of a few hundred fans would have made that much difference in the overall noise level in the stadium, but it was the principle of the matter.

The motivational speaker could explain not only the rationale for standing and yelling on defensive third downs but also many other things like the tradition of the band putting their hats on backwards after a Bobcat victory. I wonder how many students even know about that, because so many are gone by the end of the game. In the old days (and this might be a tradition to be revived) the band would march up to Richland and onto the Main Green with their hats on backwards after a victory. And, why o' why with a video scoreboard don't we put the words of the Alma Mater on the screen when it is played. After a few short games a larger number of people would actually know the words. And, how many know to take their hats off not only for the National Anthem but also for the Alma Mater, and when a visiting fan for the opponent's Alma Mater? These are just a few of the many things that could be explained to help folks understand the total atmosphere of college football.

I wonder, in addition to having the motivational speaker before games, if OHIO should have a one-hour required course for freshmen that could be called OHIO Traditions. This would included instruction not only on athletic traditions but of other old traditions like the meaning of the Kissing Circle, the planting of the McGuffey Elms, the meaning of the Ordinance of 1787 and why it's emblazoned on the new College Gate, the significance of the Union Civil War Monument on campus and why it should be treated with respect, the Lincoln Hall Bobcat, Homecoming, etc. They could also learn some things about OHIO history, including how a future governor kicked a football (probably a rugby ball) over Cutler Hall in the 1830s and how this feat was reenacted by one of Carroll Widdoes' kickers on the 150th Anniversary of the University in 1954. The man who did this, by the way, was John Brough (rhymes with "rough") who walloped Clement Vallandigham, the Copperhead, in the 1863 gubernatorial election, carrying virtually every county in Southeastern Ohio and Northeastern Ohio, but not in Cowtown and Central Ohio, to their everlasting shame. When Brough won Lincoln telegraphed him and said, "Glory to God in the Highest. Ohio has saved the Nation." Aren't these things every OHIO graduate should know and cherish?

Also, this purposed class could have the Local Girls come in and sing some of the many traditional OHIO songs in their repertoire. Including "Round on the ends, high in the middle -- O-HI-O," which contrary to opinions in Cowtown was written by an OHIO graduate about OHIO, not about the junior institution in Columbus that has expropriated it the way they have done with so many things belonging to the real OHIO. And, how about teaching these heads full of mush that OHIO had what was probably the first African American QB of a predominately white school way back in 1903-04, and that this man, an Athens native, went on to graduate from Howard University medical school and became one of the finest medical educators in the nation? There's lots to be proud of at Ohio University and each generation should impart it to the next.

Ok, I've rambled on too long, but TS, your post inspired me. Go OHIO!

Last Edited: 11/2/2015 11:39:57 AM by OhioCatFan

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

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Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

Recovering Journalist
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RE: Ohio's Mind Reading Problem: An Approach to Louder Crowds on Gameday

Posted: 11/2/2015 8:26:37 AM

You can pipe in sound, invent traditions, and beseech/annoy/harass your seatmate all day long, but the only sustainable thing that makes crowds loud is actual excitement. It's why the 110 gets the loudest cheers - because they're exciting week in and week out. It's why the Convo was rocking during the final minutes of the Buffalo game. Football fans aren't going to get loud watching a beatdown by a directional Michigan team. Why should they? Ohio fans were loud in the early aughts, when we were playing for a place in the MACC instead of trying to avoid last place in the conference.

That one crazy fan
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RE: Ohio's Mind Reading Problem: An Approach to Louder Crowds on Gameday

Posted: 11/2/2015 9:54:11 AM

For the longest time, I've been wanting to see the student section start doing what the band does during kickoff's. During the drums, the rest of the band is chanting "hioooo-o-h-i-o-hioooooo-o-h-i-ohioooo. I think it would be amazing if the student section could start this (maybe it eventually becomes stadium-wide?)

The opposing team sucks!

The Situation
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RE: Ohio's Mind Reading Problem: An Approach to Louder Crowds on Gameday

Posted: 11/2/2015 6:58:03 PM

Recovering Journalist wrote:

You can pipe in sound, invent traditions, and beseech/annoy/harass your seatmate all day long, but the only sustainable thing that makes crowds loud is actual excitement.

Allegedly.

We can look to European football as an example of the demonstrable willingness of the human element to cycle through a handful of prearranged cheers in spite of a scoreless game.

On the topic of college football, my first hand experiences with casual, otherwise uninvolved people contradict your statement.

The Situation
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RE: Ohio's Mind Reading Problem: An Approach to Louder Crowds on Gameday

Posted: 11/2/2015 7:12:37 PM

That one crazy fan wrote:

I too would love this.

One of the biggest challenges in implementing this is the student section as its currently arranged. The most interested students are spread out across the first couple rows from the 20 to the other 20. They yell towards the field and therefore have no influence on the less interested students behind them (if for no other reason than sound doesn't travel backwards in an open stadium). This has been an incredibly inefficient arrangement of the enthusiasts. The ozone will always struggle to organize a collective cheer until this is changed.

If the "ozone" sat in the back rows in the section next to the band (essentially a vocal extension of the band) this could be implemented easily. And the ozone would then extend down towards the field as necessary.

Casper71
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RE: Ohio's Mind Reading Problem: An Approach to Louder Crowds on Gameday

Posted: 11/2/2015 10:07:12 PM

Why don't we try getting the band in the stands BEFORE the kickoff. It is stupid for them to be coming into the stands at kick off.

TWT
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RE: Ohio's Mind Reading Problem: An Approach to Louder Crowds on Gameday

Posted: 11/3/2015 12:00:33 AM

RSBobcat wrote:

New video board and speakers would certainly help

Ribbon boards telling the crowd to get rowdy on 3rd downs.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

shabamon
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RE: Ohio's Mind Reading Problem: An Approach to Louder Crowds on Gameday

Posted: 11/3/2015 11:09:48 AM

Sitch, knowing what I know about you from our few interactions and what I've read, you really should have been O Zone president at one point.

The Situation
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RE: Ohio's Mind Reading Problem: An Approach to Louder Crowds on Gameday

Posted: 11/3/2015 12:19:08 PM

shabamon wrote:

Sitch, knowing what I know about you from our few interactions and what I've read, you really should have been O Zone president at one point.

Thanks, I'll take the compliment.

In hindsight I wish I would've taken the time to get involved with the OZone while an undergrad.

Let that be a lesson to some guy reading BA from their dorm room right now who's on the fence about getting involved.

Kevin Finnegan
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RE: Ohio's Mind Reading Problem: An Approach to Louder Crowds on Gameday

Posted: 11/3/2015 12:23:19 PM

This really is a great article (which is how it reads, not like a post). What I find humorous is that what you're asking for (and I'm agreeing with) is making the artificial excitement that PJ Fleck brought to WMU with the 'Row The Boat' video and chants. Many here rolled their eyes at the effort and talked about how annoying he was for creating this. In reality, I think this is really a great idea.

Paul Graham
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RE: Ohio's Mind Reading Problem: An Approach to Louder Crowds on Gameday

Posted: 11/3/2015 12:40:23 PM

finnOhio wrote:

We're actually going to a WMU game this year to see RTB IRL...albeit to roll our eyes in person. The Fleck Traditions video is just the greatest, unintentionally hilarious thing ever.

But if you're 18 years old, maybe Fleck is "dope."

GoCats105
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RE: Ohio's Mind Reading Problem: An Approach to Louder Crowds on Gameday

Posted: 11/3/2015 12:49:38 PM

Paul Graham wrote:

finnOhio wrote:

PG - You almost more than anyone has voiced their opinion on Ohio needing better players. Fleck is enjoying great successes on the recruiting trail. That being said and with what you stayed above, would you embrace a guy like him in Athens?

Paul Graham
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RE: Ohio's Mind Reading Problem: An Approach to Louder Crowds on Gameday

Posted: 11/3/2015 5:47:18 PM

GoCats105 wrote:

I don't know! He's such a weird guy I'm not sure there are many others like him. :)

But a young, energetic coach with a little flash would be nice when Frank decides to hang up the ole' whistle.

Another thing Fleck brings to the table is a pretty good football/coaching pedigree. He played a little in the NFL and moved around a lot as a coach (Ohio State, NIU, Rutgers, Tampa Bay) and you could say that makes him a careerist. And that's probably true. But seeing how a bunch of top places do their work can only be beneficial.

Last Edited: 11/3/2015 5:47:56 PM by Paul Graham

The Situation
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RE: Ohio's Mind Reading Problem: An Approach to Louder Crowds on Gameday

Posted: 11/27/2015 11:45:30 PM

Monroe,

You have lots of ideas about what you would change that's beyond your control.

But I see none of your input on what you would change that's within your control.

Perhaps you could make a promise to fly back to Athens for every home game?

The Situation
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RE: Ohio's Mind Reading Problem: An Approach to Louder Crowds on Gameday

Posted: 1/5/2016 9:15:06 PM

RPKirtland wrote:

In another thread Alan Swank requested a topic change.

Perhaps he'd be willing to weigh in with some positive feedback?

P.S.

Opinions welcome

Last Edited: 1/5/2016 9:17:07 PM by The Situation

cc-cat
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RE: Ohio's Mind Reading Problem: An Approach to Louder Crowds on Gameday

Posted: 1/5/2016 10:40:57 PM

Traditions can be created - A perfect example is the playing of Sand Storm before South Carolina games. It is a fairly recent (2008sh) addition. YouTube can show you the impact. That song is now as popular as their alma mater and is played around campus, bars, etc. Just need to pick the right song.

I think a key is to start the game day experience BEFORE the stadium.

At Central Florida the band marches from the Mall to the stadium - students in tow. Tennessee band marches through a traditional route. LSU band marches down their Victory Hill. How can the band serve as pied pipers? Can they come from their dorms, playing and meet in a central place (uptown?) students in tow - great that the band used to go up Richland after the game, how about down Richland to start the day?

Its about the team: Ole Miss player walks through the grove. Clemson buses in and come down from the rock. How could we use Victory Hill - be it for players or the band?

All stadiums use the video board to get fans on their feet (Carolina Panthers use video of players telling fans to get on their feet (beats having some Ahole waving his arms up telling me to stand - never like THAT guy). Ohio could use fans, McDavis, profs, bar staff, etc.

Create tradition. Takes time, but make it consistent (and not corny) and it can take hold. Build it in steps. Initial steps: Get a song. Entrance of team/band. Use video board.

Jeff McKinney
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RE: Ohio's Mind Reading Problem: An Approach to Louder Crowds on Gameday

Posted: 1/5/2016 11:09:41 PM

Why can't we just do this stuff? Who is primarily responsible for implementation? The athletic dept or some other entity?

What are the main barriers to implementation?

OhioCatFan
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RE: Ohio's Mind Reading Problem: An Approach to Louder Crowds on Gameday

Posted: 1/6/2016 12:10:07 AM

One song I'd like to see played more as a "psyche up" piece is "We will, We will, Rock 'em." Back in the day this was used more often. I know some other schools use it, but I think it fits OHIO well. As I recall, it used to be played either before or after the "Rip 'em up, Tear 'em up, Give 'em Hell OHIO" cheer. That one could be revived. This music and the cheer blended well together. I'll bet McDavis remembers this cheer from his undergraduate days.

There's also a song that the band used to play in pre-game rituals with a name something like "Go OHIO." I've got an old song book and can look it up if anyone wants. This ditty was written, as I recall, back in the 1920s or '30s and is kind of what I think they called back in that day (way before my day, believe it or not) as a "rouser." That could be revived to.

I think along with inventing new traditions, which I'm all for, we could revive some old ones that got forgotten during our wilderness years or even earlier.

Last Edited: 1/6/2016 11:05:36 AM by OhioCatFan

Alan Swank
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RE: Ohio's Mind Reading Problem: An Approach to Louder Crowds on Gameday

Posted: 1/6/2016 9:08:38 AM

The Situation wrote:

RPKirtland wrote:

In another thread Alan Swank requested a topic change.

Perhaps he'd be willing to weigh in with some positive feedback?

P.S.

Opinions welcome

Fair question. One "tradition" that needs to be dropped today is the stand for defense thing for basketball. It's corny to use a term from an earlier post plus most people don't do it. If I'm a player on an opposing team, assuming they pay attention to the crowd, I can't wait to make a basket to make all of those people sit down. Paul would insert BANG here.

Traditions just kind of happen and catch on. Not sure when it started but at the 8:00 minute time out in the second half, the band plays stand up and cheer and most everyone does that although I've noticed more people sitting down even during that.

Some folks mentioned a song - it's just a matter of getting the right one like Rocky Top. I hate to say this but my bet is that more of our fans know the words to Hang on Sloopy than they do to Stand Up and Cheer.

MaMaKitty
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RE: Ohio's Mind Reading Problem: An Approach to Louder Crowds on Gameday

Posted: 1/6/2016 10:14:28 AM

Another suggestion or 2
1 - After the first down - the announcer says "and that's another Bobcat 1st down" THEN the bobcat growl.
2 - is there anything the cheerleaders can do after a touchdown except pushups?

Deciduous Forest Cat
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RE: Ohio's Mind Reading Problem: An Approach to Louder Crowds on Gameday

Posted: 1/6/2016 11:48:10 AM

MaMaKitty wrote:

#1 is what they already do today, except it's a Citizens Bank first down. Annoying but we have to pay the bills. I like what some stadiums do where the announcer leads in "And that's an OHIO..." Crowd: First Down! Bobcat fans actually participated and made noise with this one at the bowl game.

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