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Topic:  Final Thoughts On OHIO vs MAC Since 2009

Topic:  Final Thoughts On OHIO vs MAC Since 2009
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71 BOBCAT
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  Message Not Read  Final Thoughts On OHIO vs MAC Since 2009
   Posted: 12/31/2015 10:03:03 AM 
W -L Record Bowl Eligibility
Ohio 57-35 7
BG 50-42 5
Miami 24-62 1
Kent 35-50 1
Akron 24-61 1
Buffalo 30-54 1
CMU 45-44 4
WMU 39-48 4
EMU 15-69 0
Toledo 57-32 6
NIU 72-25 7
Ball 39-47 2

I have been keeping track of these stats since 2009 and thought I would share with the group. Some may already know this, others may have had a feeling along these lines, but once the stats are presented in this fashion I believe we all start to see things a little differently.
Basically Ohio has the 3rd best winning record and is tied for the most bowl eligible years since 2009. This is a significant achievement. Period.
These results help show why our attendance figures are so good compared with other MAC schools.
I am convinced that had we not all the injuries our record, trips to the MACC game, and Bowl victories would have been far better.
Thank you Frank.

Happy New Year to all fans


GO BOBCATS
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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: Final Thoughts On OHIO vs MAC Since 2009
   Posted: 12/31/2015 12:03:49 PM 
Question for doubledribble, might this be Ohio achieving a major objective? Wait for it. How soon will it be before we see the term mediocre on this thread?

Last Edited: 12/31/2015 1:10:59 PM by Bcat2

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: Final Thoughts On OHIO vs MAC Since 2009
   Posted: 12/31/2015 12:49:23 PM 
How many MAC championships do we have? Why is our record 6-20 versus winning MAC schools during that period. This is good old-fashioned hogwash, and only a hog would eat it. Did you eat it? Who fell for the okie doke?

Last Edited: 12/31/2015 2:21:15 PM by allen

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: Final Thoughts On OHIO vs MAC Since 2009
   Posted: 12/31/2015 1:11:32 PM 
allen wrote:
How many MAC championships do we have? Why is our record 4-20 versus winning MAC schools during that period. This is good old-fashioned hogwash, and only a hog would eat it. Did you eat it? Who fell for the okie doke?


Yup. So easy to look at these numbers on the surface and say "Hey, everything is awesome"

I know that's not what some people are doing....but you know some of them are.

A quick dissection:

W -L Record Bowl Eligibility
Ohio 57-35 7
BG 50-42 5
Miami 24-62 1
Kent 35-50 1
Akron 24-61 1
Buffalo 30-54 1
CMU 45-44 4
WMU 39-48 4
EMU 15-69 0
Toledo 57-32 6
NIU 72-25 7
Ball 39-47 2

Notice the MAC East

#11 - Miami (has MAC title since Frank took over)
#10 - Akron (has MAC title since Frank took over)
#9 - Buffalo (has MAC title since Frank took over)
#8 - Kent

Four of the five worst teams in the MAC reside in the East....don't you think that inflated Ohio's win totals since 2009? And that's not even counting UMass!

And I'm guessing Toledo, WMU, CMU and NIU would have even more wins if they got to face those cupcakes every year since 2009.

And for arguments sake....since 2009....vs. those four bottom-feeders....Ohio is 20-8. (Throw in 2-0 vs. UMass & 3-0 vs. EMU - the worst team in the MAC)

That makes 25-8 vs. the 6 worst MAC teams......32-27 vs the rest of the league.

That's .542 winning %........just above average.

And yes...that's what this program has been since 2009.....just above average.

But let's not really dissect these numbers.

Let's just celebrate having the 3rd best MAC record since 2009!

I know you are supposed to win against the bad teams....and they are on the schedule whether we like it or not.....but let's be level-headed when looking at this.

We are NOT the 3rd best program in this league since 2009. We had 4 pretty good years in 2009, '10 (despite the meltdown vs. Kent with MAC East on line), '11 & '12 (despite second half collapse).

But since 2012...we've been average at best.

2015 showed some growth....I just hope they can parlay off this.

Ok....feel free to fire away and take about how negative I am. I'm just pointing out facts.

Last Edited: 12/31/2015 1:12:26 PM by bshot44
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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: Final Thoughts On OHIO vs MAC Since 2009
   Posted: 12/31/2015 1:13:41 PM 
The top teams also had to replace coaches and lose players in the process.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: Final Thoughts On OHIO vs MAC Since 2009
   Posted: 12/31/2015 1:15:25 PM 
allen wrote:
How many MAC championships do we have? Why is our record 4-20 versus winning MAC schools during that period. This is good old-fashioned hogwash, and only a hog would eat it. Did you eat it? Who fell for the okie doke?


The above just could not be allowed to stand. Like anything else in a positive light.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: Final Thoughts On OHIO vs MAC Since 2009
   Posted: 12/31/2015 1:17:13 PM 
Bcat2 wrote:
allen wrote:
How many MAC championships do we have? Why is our record 4-20 versus winning MAC schools during that period. This is good old-fashioned hogwash, and only a hog would eat it. Did you eat it? Who fell for the okie doke?


The above just could not be allowed to stand. Like anything else in a positive light.



Sorry Sally Sunshine....hate to rain on your positivity parade

But you keep searching for hard facts/stats/numbers that back your "awesomeness" approach

Last Edited: 12/31/2015 1:17:51 PM by bshot44
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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: Final Thoughts On OHIO vs MAC Since 2009
   Posted: 12/31/2015 1:20:19 PM 
bshot44 wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
allen wrote:
How many MAC championships do we have? Why is our record 4-20 versus winning MAC schools during that period. This is good old-fashioned hogwash, and only a hog would eat it. Did you eat it? Who fell for the okie doke?


The above just could not be allowed to stand. Like anything else in a positive light.



Sorry Sally Sunshine....hate to rain on your positivity parade

But you keep searching for hard facts/stats/numbers that back your "awesomeness" approach


I know raining on parades is what you do. Oh, I don't buy that you hate doing it.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: Final Thoughts On OHIO vs MAC Since 2009
   Posted: 12/31/2015 1:28:21 PM 
Bcat2 wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
allen wrote:
How many MAC championships do we have? Why is our record 4-20 versus winning MAC schools during that period. This is good old-fashioned hogwash, and only a hog would eat it. Did you eat it? Who fell for the okie doke?


The above just could not be allowed to stand. Like anything else in a positive light.



Sorry Sally Sunshine....hate to rain on your positivity parade

But you keep searching for hard facts/stats/numbers that back your "awesomeness" approach


I know raining on parades is what you do. Oh, I don't buy that you hate doing it.



No, I don't hate pointing out to the "cheerleaders" some of their statements that have holes in them.

If you think "everything is awesome", submit some data that backs it up. Not just your "everything is awesome" mindset.

I'm not saying the sky is falling....but I just choose to look at things more realistically than blindly optimistically.

The facts/data I submit back my viewpoint. We are an above average football program right now.

If that's all we are and that's what we strive to be....then I'll enjoy it for what it is.

But I think the athletic dept has not given that message yet. I think they are still trying to compete for championships. And as long as they are setting those expectations, those are the expectations I will choose to judge this program by.

You don't have to. No one is making you.

But yes, I'll continue to back up my opinions with facts. You are free to do the same if you wish.

Last Edited: 12/31/2015 1:29:10 PM by bshot44
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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: Final Thoughts On OHIO vs MAC Since 2009
   Posted: 12/31/2015 1:28:55 PM 
Bcat2 wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
allen wrote:
How many MAC championships do we have? Why is our record 4-20 versus winning MAC schools during that period. This is good old-fashioned hogwash, and only a hog would eat it. Did you eat it? Who fell for the okie doke?


The above just could not be allowed to stand. Like anything else in a positive light.



Sorry Sally Sunshine....hate to rain on your positivity parade

But you keep searching for hard facts/stats/numbers that back your "awesomeness" approach


I know raining on parades is what you do. Oh, I don't buy that you hate doing it.


The answer to your first post, mediocre. You waited for it and now you got it. MEDIOCRE

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: Final Thoughts On OHIO vs MAC Since 2009
   Posted: 12/31/2015 1:52:00 PM 
Just to make this clear, I am not calling Frank Solich or the players mediocre. I am talking to the ball handlers, who try to shame anybody on this site for wanting to win championships. I thank Frank Solich for what he has done. I now want him to make adjustments that will get us to the next level. if not then leave. this is not the pinnacle of Ohio football. I am willing to bet Frank wants to win championships and he is not patting himself on the back.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Final Thoughts On OHIO vs MAC Since 2009
   Posted: 12/31/2015 2:05:50 PM 
So the message is: If you're supportive of this team, you're the problem. If you post generally positive comments about this team, and leave negativity off the public message board, then you're accepting mediocrity, and YOU are hurting this team.

It's not Frank.
It's not the players.
It's YOU.

Stop being happy. Start complaining about this team, on BA.com, CONSTANTLY. Only then will this team finally succeed. I have found the enemy, and he is us.
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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: Final Thoughts On OHIO vs MAC Since 2009
   Posted: 12/31/2015 2:14:46 PM 
Robert Fox wrote:
So the message is: If you're supportive of this team, you're the problem. If you post generally positive comments about this team, and leave negativity off the public message board, then you're accepting mediocrity, and YOU are hurting this team.

It's not Frank.
It's not the players.
It's YOU.

Stop being happy. Start complaining about this team, on BA.com, CONSTANTLY. Only then will this team finally succeed. I have found the enemy, and he is us.


If that's your stance, go with it.

You can support and still point out the shortcomings or negatives. That's called being realistic. I don't need to be blindly optimistic to be a supporter.

Do I love America? Am I a fan of America? You're #/=%×÷# right I do/am. But is America perfect? No! Do they have problems? Can they improve? Hell yes!

Because I think America has problems or can improve, am I less of an American?

Replace America/American with Bobcats/Bobcat fan. No difference.

I'm totally comfortable with my level of fandom for this program. No one on here can alter that.

Again...no one forces you to read/react/respond. That's all your decision.

Go Bobcats!
Loyal fan since setting foot on campus in 1994

Last Edited: 1/1/2016 9:07:28 AM by Jeff McKinney
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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Final Thoughts On OHIO vs MAC Since 2009
   Posted: 12/31/2015 2:14:58 PM 
Wait a minute. The allegation that people here (and in other threads) are always negative is total HORSE GARBAGE.

In this thread, as in most other instances, people here have posted FACTS.

The lead in this thread posted top level facts that appear to show OHIO FOOTBALL in good position over the last 7 or so years in the MAC.

Responses to the lead post examined those facts more closely. That examination, WHICH ONLY STATED FACTS, put the top-level look in a more fair context.


There is some characterization of the facts-as-more-closely-examined as mediocre. But that is a fair characterization--which stands unrefuted. (Crying because someone makes a reasonable characterization is not refutation.)

So, can we quit the dishonesty? In 2016 can we recognize facts and the truth as facts and the truth instead of slamming as negative those who present those FACTS and FAIRLY CHARACTERIZE THEM?!


Last Edited: 12/31/2015 2:16:54 PM by Monroe Slavin

Where's the band?!
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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: Final Thoughts On OHIO vs MAC Since 2009
   Posted: 12/31/2015 2:19:42 PM 
Robert Fox wrote:
So the message is: If you're supportive of this team, you're the problem. If you post generally positive comments about this team, and leave negativity off the public message board, then you're accepting mediocrity, and YOU are hurting this team.

It's not Frank.
It's not the players.
It's YOU.

Stop being happy. Start complaining about this team, on BA.com, CONSTANTLY. Only then will this team finally succeed. I have found the enemy, and he is us.

We all support the team, the problem is when someone says something objective they get attacked and then the we are the best in the world post sprout up and we know darn well that it is not true. Frank's emotional backers lose their rationale and make the craziest arguments known to man. If someone syas the safety play sucked, we have to hear how NFL scouts are scouting are safeties. If we question decisions, we have to hear about how we have not coached for 40 years. Your arguments are so weak that I cannot help but to point them out.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Final Thoughts On OHIO vs MAC Since 2009
   Posted: 12/31/2015 2:28:16 PM 
Have you considered the possibility that WE GET IT? That we understand you're not satisfied with results. We understand we're not top-level in the MAC, never mind D1 at large.

71 posts a rather innocuous fact about our standing against the rest of the MAC. His data is (I presume) factual. Readers of that data are free to discern the information. No one in their right mind will read that and blindly accept that "yep, we're the third best team in the MAC and knocking on the door to be the champs."

The VAST MAJORITY of readers of that data will ingest it and then make a rational analysis: We're pretty good. We've got room to get better. We frustratingly too often lose to the top of the MAC. We're not competing for championships often enough. Our offense is suspect. Our injury frequency is deplorable.

However, the naysayers on here can't allow any free analysis to stand without an immediate post proclaiming the data is actually BS. In reality, you'll say, we suck. And any data to the contrary is just peaches and cream, pollyanna BS, and Rainbow farts.

Last Edited: 12/31/2015 2:29:49 PM by Robert Fox
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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: Final Thoughts On OHIO vs MAC Since 2009
   Posted: 12/31/2015 2:34:37 PM 
Robert Fox wrote:
Have you considered the possibility that WE GET IT? That we understand you're not satisfied with results. We understand we're not top-level in the MAC, never mind D1 at large.

71 posts a rather innocuous fact about our standing against the rest of the MAC. His data is (I presume) factual. Readers of that data are free to discern the information. No one in their right mind will read that and blindly accept that "yep, we're the third best team in the MAC and knocking on the door to be the champs."

The VAST MAJORITY of readers of that data will ingest it and then make a rational analysis: We're pretty good. We've got room to get better. We frustratingly too often lose to the top of the MAC. We're not competing for championships often enough. Our offense is suspect. Our injury frequency is deplorable.

However, the naysayers on there can't allow any free analysis to stand without an immediate post proclaiming the data is actually BS. In reality, you'll say, we suck. And any data to the contrary is just peaches and cream, pollyanna BS, and Rainbow farts.


I believe there is a debate going on about the state of our program. People like me believe we are in a little bit of a tail spin and losing traction and some see us at the mountain top and maybe some believe we are in the basement. I accepted the data partially, it of course did not represent the total picture and then Bcat2 added his two cents. The point is that we are having a debate and opinions will be exchanged, but we have to be rational and not let our emotions take over.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Final Thoughts On OHIO vs MAC Since 2009
   Posted: 12/31/2015 2:45:11 PM 
allen wrote:

People like me believe we are in a little bit of a tail spin and losing traction and some see us at the mountain top and maybe some believe we are in the basement.


You left at least one tier out: I believe we're on the third floor of a four-story MAC building. BG, Toledo and NIU are on the 4th floor. That's not the basement and it's not standing on the roof. Whether or not you agree, the real question is: are we ascending or descending?
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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: Final Thoughts On OHIO vs MAC Since 2009
   Posted: 12/31/2015 2:49:57 PM 
I can agree with that.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: Final Thoughts On OHIO vs MAC Since 2009
   Posted: 12/31/2015 2:51:02 PM 
Robert Fox wrote:
allen wrote:

People like me believe we are in a little bit of a tail spin and losing traction and some see us at the mountain top and maybe some believe we are in the basement.


You left at least one tier out: I believe we're on the third floor of a four-story MAC building. BG, Toledo and NIU are on the 4th floor. That's not the basement and it's not standing on the roof. Whether or not you agree, the real question is: are we ascending or descending?





That's a helluva question. Not sure. Feel like we're stuck in the elevator between 2nd & 3rd floors the last three seasons. Not sure which way we're headed. More optimistic we're moving towards that 4th floor after finish.....but that won't be decided until next October....how do we fare with BG and our 3 MAC west opponents? (assuming we don't draw EMU & Ball...and if we do 6-2 in the MAC should be floor for this program with that schedule)
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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Final Thoughts On OHIO vs MAC Since 2009
   Posted: 12/31/2015 3:06:41 PM 
I'm not sure either. I'm optimistic we'll do no worse than 3rd floor. I believe that's a Frank Solich characteristic. His ability to upgrade this team is obvious. Our "lows" are better than they used to be.

Now, that's not to say Solich is infallible. My biggest question mark is whether or not we can get to the 4th floor. I think doing so requires at least two things:
Superior recruiting
A little luck

In my mind, Solich has the coaching capability to get us to the top. It's the recruiting that's the biggest question mark, and most of the factors have been discussed on here: getting kids to Athens and recruiting against the P5. Another aspect is tradition. Ohio University simply does not have football tradition--the kind that attracts top-level talent. How much does that matter? I honestly don't know. However, tradition is an enormous factor. It's why Alabama will almost always be good. When they're down, it won't be for long. It's why Vanderbilt will always be bad. When they're up, it won't be for long.

What's Ohio's tradition in the MAC? As of the past 40 years or so? Not so good. Solich and ANY Ohio coach is working against that reality, working to change perceptions about Ohio football. That ain't easy, especially if you intend to make it permanent. I believe that's what Solich is attempting to do. He's chosen the more difficult path, and the payoff is slow in coming. But, I believe, it will get here.
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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Final Thoughts On OHIO vs MAC Since 2009
   Posted: 12/31/2015 3:16:18 PM 
Robert Fox--

I thought that the concept of 'the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth' is sacred in the USA.

Well, the first post in this thread is not the whole truth. Slamming those of us who want the whole truth--really?!!


And, I think that your characterization of us as a program on the upswing is not fair. When was the last time we were in the MACC game? The last 3-4 years have been filled with some thunderous MAC losses whereas I don't think the first 7 or so years of SOlich was that way.

Note, again: Predictions of robust coming 2016 and 2017 are predictions, which we've seen fail before. They are not facts.


Then, I disagree with your view that being near the top is okay. First, we're not near there. Second, after 11 years, not a single MAC means we are average or less. Why be in the MAC if a title is not the prime goal? [I realize that this paragraph is not about facts. It's about views. I do think that the average/unsatisfactory view is a much reasonable based on the trend, the past few years.]


Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!


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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Final Thoughts On OHIO vs MAC Since 2009
   Posted: 12/31/2015 3:23:46 PM 
But it is the whole truth. It's fact based (again, I presume) and without any spin. That apparently is what you're uncomfortable with. You don't want this factual data presented without your spin: that this team sucks. Our coaching staff sucks. Our players are subpar.

It's only data. Straight up data. How is that not the whole truth? Interpretation is in the minds of the readers. Let them read it and come to their own conclusions.
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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Final Thoughts On OHIO vs MAC Since 2009
   Posted: 12/31/2015 3:47:32 PM 
Robert Fox wrote:
But it is the whole truth. It's fact based (again, I presume) and without any spin. That apparently is what you're uncomfortable with. You don't want this factual data presented without your spin: that this team sucks. Our coaching staff sucks. Our players are subpar.

It's only data. Straight up data. How is that not the whole truth? Interpretation is in the minds of the readers. Let them read it and come to their own conclusions.



Okay. I'll do it your way, the 'don't have my M.O. way.'

OHIO led the 2011 MACC game 20-0.

Therefore, everything about the program is perfect and we won that game.

Don't bother me with further or more specific or more relevant facts.

That 'whole truth' thing is not my thing. I have a different point of view and agenda.

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!


DesignspiritUSA.com
The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags
The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping!

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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Final Thoughts On OHIO vs MAC Since 2009
   Posted: 12/31/2015 4:16:52 PM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:

OHIO led the 2011 MACC game 20-0.

Therefore, everything about the program is perfect and we won that game.

Don't bother me with further or more specific or more relevant facts.

That 'whole truth' thing is not my thing. I have a different point of view and agenda.



The data 71 posted is the "whole truth." It's not half the truth, as your example above. It's the "whole truth." You are, apparently, not comfortable with that.

What follows that data is interpretation, which is OPINION.

Data = fact
Interpretation = opinion

I think we're making progress here, Monroe. Same time tomorrow?
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