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Topic:  OT: Attn Browns Fans re Pettine and Farmer

Topic:  OT: Attn Browns Fans re Pettine and Farmer
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C Money
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  Message Not Read  OT: Attn Browns Fans re Pettine and Farmer
   Posted: 1/4/2016 11:50:32 AM 
I'm not a Browns fan, and I do not mean to throw salt in any wounds. I genuinely am curious about your opinions on the Pettine and Farmer firings.

I thought Browns Nation would be ecstatic about both getting the boot, because (to a non-fan) both were absolutely horrible at their jobs. But the reaction I am seeing on the interwebs is....something substantially less than enthusiasm.

Is it just a matter of "here we go again..." all over again? Or was there some hope that Pettine and Farmer could get it pulled together?
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Attn Browns Fans re Pettine and Farmer
   Posted: 1/4/2016 12:02:24 PM 
The Browns organization is both unbelievably successful in one aspect of sports and profoundly inept in the other.

Successful: Providing a sense of hope. Every single year it seems like the Browns might turn the corner. Each new draft pick, every new coach, GM, etc. is brought with a renewed sense of optimism and the Browns take advantage of it. The fans eat it up like Thanksgiving dinner and feel just as bad afterwards when they find out how wrong they were.

Inept: Providing a winning product. I think this speaks for itself.

You wanna know how to get the Browns to be successful again? The fans need to stop showing up to games. What incentive does the Browns' front office have to put a winning team on the field? None. They are already banking tons of money while putting a loser on the field. The fans STILL watch, after all these years, no matter what.

If the fans stop coming to games, watching the games, buying the next draft pick's jersey, then all this goes away. They'll HAVE to put a winning product on the field to get you back in! Very simple concept that some can't come to grips with.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Attn Browns Fans re Pettine and Farmer
   Posted: 1/4/2016 12:10:46 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:

You wanna know how to get the Browns to be successful again? The fans need to stop showing up to games. What incentive does the Browns' front office have to put a winning team on the field? None. They are already banking tons of money while putting a loser on the field. The fans STILL watch, after all these years, no matter what.

If the fans stop coming to games, watching the games, buying the next draft pick's jersey, then all this goes away. They'll HAVE to put a winning product on the field to get you back in! Very simple concept that some can't come to grips with.


In a way, this describes the NFL as a whole.

Last Edited: 1/4/2016 12:11:07 PM by Deciduous Forest Cat
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Attn Browns Fans re Pettine and Farmer
   Posted: 1/4/2016 12:16:38 PM 
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:

You wanna know how to get the Browns to be successful again? The fans need to stop showing up to games. What incentive does the Browns' front office have to put a winning team on the field? None. They are already banking tons of money while putting a loser on the field. The fans STILL watch, after all these years, no matter what.

If the fans stop coming to games, watching the games, buying the next draft pick's jersey, then all this goes away. They'll HAVE to put a winning product on the field to get you back in! Very simple concept that some can't come to grips with.


In a way, this describes the NFL as a whole.



Totally agree.
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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Attn Browns Fans re Pettine and Farmer
   Posted: 1/4/2016 12:21:06 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:

If the fans stop coming to games, watching the games, buying the next draft pick's jersey, then all this goes away. They'll HAVE to put a winning product on the field to get you back in!


Either that, or they'll move to Baltimore.
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ShoreCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Attn Browns Fans re Pettine and Farmer
   Posted: 1/4/2016 12:22:45 PM 
I was jokingly going to post a thread: OT: Solich to Browns.

I'm trying to figure out how a 40 year old lawyer with no football personnel background is going to be an improvement. That said, it absolutely cannot get any worse. Pettine was not a good in-game coach and Farmer made so many mistakes (Manziel, Gilbert, $9 million guaranteed for Dwayne Bowe, etc.) that you had to make a change.

Apathy has set in for me and a lot Browns fans I know. I spent more Sunday afternoons this year re-discovering the MetroParks enjoying the first true Autumn we've had in awhile. This team has so many holes that I don't see it being competitive for awhile.

So my expectation right now is that they'll hire a new GM, a new coach, screw-up the draft and finish well below .500 again.

At least we have LeBron.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Attn Browns Fans re Pettine and Farmer
   Posted: 1/4/2016 12:27:32 PM 
My son, who is a big Browns fan, is really afraid they will draft Hackenberg. Both my son and I can't figure out the hype on this guy. He seems a mediocre college QB at best. We really can't figure out what pro scouts see in him.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Attn Browns Fans re Pettine and Farmer
   Posted: 1/4/2016 12:30:15 PM 
With as many as three cities (SD, Oakland, St. Louis) maybe losing a franchise, if Browns fans (or any others) stop going to games, their precious teams could wind up elsewhere fairly quickly. Browns fans should be keenly aware of that.

The Browns' owners have been making poor choices of management and coaches for nearly all of the past 50 years. In turn, the management and coaches have made poor personnel and strategy decisions. And it doesn't seem to matter who owns the team; the results are still the same. CBS mentioned yesterday that the last Browns coach to have a winning record for his tenure was Marty Schottenheimer, who coached from 1984-88. That's 27 years -- most of the players on the team hadn't been born yet. Good decisions start from the top, and until the Browns get an owner who knows football and cares about more than the bottom line, nothing will change.

Last Edited: 1/4/2016 12:31:24 PM by Pataskala

We will get by.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Attn Browns Fans re Pettine and Farmer
   Posted: 1/4/2016 12:32:27 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
My son, who is a big Browns fan, is really afraid they will draft Hackenberg. Both my son and I can't figure out the hype on this guy. He seems a mediocre college QB at best. We really can't figure out what pro scouts see in him.


OH GOD he's the perfect Browns' QB too. He was a big deal coming out of high school because he already had the NFL frame and arm. It was kind of unfortunate he played with some less than stellar talent at PSU while he was there. His offensive lines were terrible.

I really think the fans are gonna get this crazy notion in their head that Cardale Jones is gonna be the savior ala LeBron. Cleveland kid who went to Ohio State...cmon draft that guy! Hackenberg would be a perfect Big Ben replacement in Pittsburgh though, where he will probably be a Pro Bowler just because that's how the Browns work.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Attn Browns Fans re Pettine and Farmer
   Posted: 1/4/2016 12:33:34 PM 
Pataskala wrote:
With as many as three cities (SD, Oakland, St. Louis) maybe losing a franchise, if Browns fans (or any others) stop going to games, their precious teams could wind up elsewhere fairly quickly. Browns fans should be keenly aware of that.

The Browns' owners have been making poor choices of management and coaches for nearly all of the past 50 years. In turn, the management and coaches have made poor personnel and strategy decisions. And it doesn't seem to matter who owns the team; the results are still the same. CBS mentioned yesterday that the last Browns coach to have a winning record for his tenure was Marty Schottenheimer, who coached from 1984-88. That's 27 years -- most of the players on the team hadn't been born yet. Good decisions start from the top, and until the Browns get an owner who knows football and cares about more than the bottom line, nothing will change.



I don't think they could ever move the Browns again though. The backlash would be incredible.
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Mark Lembright '85
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Attn Browns Fans re Pettine and Farmer
   Posted: 1/4/2016 2:50:40 PM 
I think the biggest reason the Browns aren't getting positive feedback from the fans or the national press is because it looks like the Browns promoted a perceived non-football guy, Sashi Brown, to be their de facto GM. Does he have any football acumen? Can he run a front office? Does he know how to run a draft or help select a head coach? Who knows. The Browns seemed to have tried every type of front office structure and it hasn't helped them yet. I just want wins!! Don't blow 1st round draft picks!!
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ShoreCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Attn Browns Fans re Pettine and Farmer
   Posted: 1/4/2016 2:54:53 PM 
I don't think they are moving. The fan support, despite my apathy, is unreal. And I'll be back scouring mock draft sites next April. I would think, that even with LeBron, that if you asked 10 Cleveland sports fans if they'd rather see a Browns Super Bowl win, an Indians World Series, or a Cavs NBA championship that at least 5 would pick the Browns. It's still a football town.

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C Money
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Attn Browns Fans re Pettine and Farmer
   Posted: 1/4/2016 3:15:42 PM 
BayCat wrote:

I'm trying to figure out how a 40 year old lawyer with no football personnel background is going to be an improvement. That said, it absolutely cannot get any worse. Pettine was not a good in-game coach and Farmer made so many mistakes (Manziel, Gilbert, $9 million guaranteed for Dwayne Bowe, etc.) that you had to make a change.



C'mon....No one takes fantasy football more seriously than lawyers. It's a no-brainer! :P
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Attn Browns Fans re Pettine and Farmer
   Posted: 1/4/2016 3:16:47 PM 
BayCat wrote:
I don't think they are moving. The fan support, despite my apathy, is unreal. And I'll be back scouring mock draft sites next April. I would think, that even with LeBron, that if you asked 10 Cleveland sports fans if they'd rather see a Browns Super Bowl win, an Indians World Series, or a Cavs NBA championship that at least 5 would pick the Browns. It's still a football town.



100% agree.
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.
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Attn Browns Fans re Pettine and Farmer
   Posted: 1/4/2016 3:23:04 PM 
I'm gonna rant.

I swear if a guy in a striped boater jacket, straw hat and a cane started sweet talking him into forming a marching band, Haslam would do him one better and make him the next GM.

They can't evaluate talent. That's the issue. It's not coaching, it's not a curse, it's not a lack of consistency or continuity. They cannot identify a Pro-Bowler from an NFL starter from a special teamer. It's not that the Browns draft picks flame out in Cleveland and then leave to great success. They disappear. They go away. They become color analysts by the age of 27 or terrible starters for the Houston Texans.

They manically go back and forth between drafting safe, low-reward (Jeff Faine, Brady Quinn, Phil Taylor, Brandon Weeden, Cam Erving, Danny Shelton, Kam Wimbeley) and gigantic high risks (Johnny Manziel, Justin Gilbert, Josh Gordon, Kellen Winslow, Barkevious Mingo).

They're gun-shy at QB because of TIM COUCH. That was SEVENTEEN YEARS AGO. He still haunts them, as if they can never take another quarterback higher than 22nd in the draft because TIM COUCH might re-emerge from the Kentucky hills in the form of another quarterback (He did. His name was Brandon Weeden). So we sit through Jake Delhomme, Jeff Garcia, Josh McCown, Luke McCown, Kip McCown, Kerry McCown, Kory McCown, Brian Hoyer, Doug Pederson, Colt McCoy, Seneca Wallace and Charlie Frye because TIM COUCH DIDN'T PAN OUT.





Last Edited: 1/4/2016 3:25:34 PM by .
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Attn Browns Fans re Pettine and Farmer
   Posted: 1/4/2016 3:34:24 PM 
Brian Smith wrote:
I'm gonna rant.

I swear if a guy in a striped boater jacket, straw hat and a cane started sweet talking him into forming a marching band, Haslam would do him one better and make him the next GM.

They can't evaluate talent. That's the issue. It's not coaching, it's not a curse, it's not a lack of consistency or continuity. They cannot identify a Pro-Bowler from an NFL starter from a special teamer. It's not that the Browns draft picks flame out in Cleveland and then leave to great success. They disappear. They go away. They become color analysts by the age of 27 or terrible starters for the Houston Texans.

They manically go back and forth between drafting safe, low-reward (Jeff Faine, Brady Quinn, Phil Taylor, Brandon Weeden, Cam Erving, Danny Shelton, Kam Wimbeley) and gigantic high risks (Johnny Manziel, Justin Gilbert, Josh Gordon, Kellen Winslow, Barkevious Mingo).

They're gun-shy at QB because of TIM COUCH. That was SEVENTEEN YEARS AGO. He still haunts them, as if they can never take another quarterback higher than 22nd in the draft because TIM COUCH might re-emerge from the Kentucky hills in the form of another quarterback (He did. His name was Brandon Weeden). So we sit through Jake Delhomme, Jeff Garcia, Josh McCown, Luke McCown, Kip McCown, Kerry McCown, Kory McCown, Brian Hoyer, Doug Pederson, Colt McCoy, Seneca Wallace and Charlie Frye because TIM COUCH DIDN'T PAN OUT.







The list of 1st Round Draft Picks since they re-entered the league is astoundingly pathetic.

1999 1 Tim Couch * QB Kentucky

2000 1 Courtney Brown * DE Penn State

2001 3 Gerard Warren DT Florida

2002 16 William Green RB Boston College [23]

2003 21 Jeff Faine C Notre Dame

2004 6 Kellen Winslow II TE Miami (Florida) [24]

2005 3 Braylon Edwards WR Michigan

2006 13 Kamerion Wimbley LB Florida State [25]

2007 3 Joe Thomas OT Wisconsin [26]
22 Brady Quinn QB Notre Dame [27]

2008 — No Pick — — [27]

2009 21 Alex Mack C California [28]

2010 7 Joe Haden CB Florida

2011 21 Phil Taylor DT Baylor

2012 3 Trent Richardson RB Alabama
22 Brandon Weeden QB Oklahoma State

2013 6 Barkevious Mingo OLB Louisiana State

2014 8 Justin Gilbert CB Oklahoma State
22 Johnny Manziel QB Texas A&M

2015 12 Danny Shelton DT Washington
19 Cameron Erving C Florida State

What? Two guys off this list have actually panned out? Thomas and Haden? Sheesh.

Last Edited: 1/4/2016 3:35:27 PM by GoCats105
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Recovering Journalist
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Attn Browns Fans re Pettine and Farmer
   Posted: 1/4/2016 3:42:23 PM 
I don't have much to add beyond the very accurate takes here. I'll point out that Brian's "rant" isn't even a rant. That's because he's exhausted. All Browns fans are, whether they are avid or apathetic, they're just tired. We've been through not just a whole team leaving and returning, but a new regime every 2-3 years. It's been joyless awful football and crushed hope since 1999. I agree that this is still a football town, but more and more people are rediscovering the joy of doing anything except watching the Browns on Sundays. They left my senior year of college, and I honestly think that for many of us they never really came back.
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Attn Browns Fans re Pettine and Farmer
   Posted: 1/4/2016 3:45:34 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:
[QUOTE=Brian Smith]

What? Two guys off this list have actually panned out? Thomas and Haden? Sheesh.



Haden is undersized, grossly overrated and injury-prone. Thomas has been solid. I'd argue that Mack is a good pick too. So my total number is the same as yours. Pathetic. You could throw darts at the top 60 projected picks and do better than the average Browns GM.
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.
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Attn Browns Fans re Pettine and Farmer
   Posted: 1/4/2016 4:02:15 PM 
I still believe the most underappreciated moment in sports history is Brandon Weeden getting trapped under a giant United States flag before his first game as an NFL quarterback.
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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Attn Browns Fans re Pettine and Farmer
   Posted: 1/4/2016 4:45:28 PM 
Ability to correctly assess the quality of the Browns' play yet not likewise assess OHIO FOOTBALL (instead substituting hope) is impressive.


Not saying that we are as bad as the Browns.

Four seasons replete with several astounding losses, yet so many willing to take the wins vs. horrid kents, Ball and NIU (which had a huge qb gap) as proof that all is wonderful.

If acknowl that we had/have qb probs, it follows must admit that NIU's huge problem there may have had effect on our win.)

Ophthalmologist sought.

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!


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PhiTau74
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Attn Browns Fans re Pettine and Farmer
   Posted: 1/4/2016 6:24:54 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:
Brian Smith wrote:
I'm gonna rant.

I swear if a guy in a striped boater jacket, straw hat and a cane started sweet talking him into forming a marching band, Haslam would do him one better and make him the next GM.

They can't evaluate talent. That's the issue. It's not coaching, it's not a curse, it's not a lack of consistency or continuity. They cannot identify a Pro-Bowler from an NFL starter from a special teamer. It's not that the Browns draft picks flame out in Cleveland and then leave to great success. They disappear. They go away. They become color analysts by the age of 27 or terrible starters for the Houston Texans.

They manically go back and forth between drafting safe, low-reward (Jeff Faine, Brady Quinn, Phil Taylor, Brandon Weeden, Cam Erving, Danny Shelton, Kam Wimbeley) and gigantic high risks (Johnny Manziel, Justin Gilbert, Josh Gordon, Kellen Winslow, Barkevious Mingo).

They're gun-shy at QB because of TIM COUCH. That was SEVENTEEN YEARS AGO. He still haunts them, as if they can never take another quarterback higher than 22nd in the draft because TIM COUCH might re-emerge from the Kentucky hills in the form of another quarterback (He did. His name was Brandon Weeden). So we sit through Jake Delhomme, Jeff Garcia, Josh McCown, Luke McCown, Kip McCown, Kerry McCown, Kory McCown, Brian Hoyer, Doug Pederson, Colt McCoy, Seneca Wallace and Charlie Frye because TIM COUCH DIDN'T PAN OUT.







The list of 1st Round Draft Picks since they re-entered the league is astoundingly pathetic.

1999 1 Tim Couch * QB Kentucky

2000 1 Courtney Brown * DE Penn State

2001 3 Gerard Warren DT Florida

2002 16 William Green RB Boston College [23]

2003 21 Jeff Faine C Notre Dame

2004 6 Kellen Winslow II TE Miami (Florida) [24]

2005 3 Braylon Edwards WR Michigan

2006 13 Kamerion Wimbley LB Florida State [25]

2007 3 Joe Thomas OT Wisconsin [26]
22 Brady Quinn QB Notre Dame [27]

2008 — No Pick — — [27]

2009 21 Alex Mack C California [28]

2010 7 Joe Haden CB Florida

2011 21 Phil Taylor DT Baylor

2012 3 Trent Richardson RB Alabama
22 Brandon Weeden QB Oklahoma State

2013 6 Barkevious Mingo OLB Louisiana State

2014 8 Justin Gilbert CB Oklahoma State
22 Johnny Manziel QB Texas A&M

2015 12 Danny Shelton DT Washington
19 Cameron Erving C Florida State

What? Two guys off this list have actually panned out? Thomas and Haden? Sheesh.



To be fair, several of those players had bad injuries which could happen to any NFL player, Phil Taylor, Courtney Brown and Winslow and Winslow had a few spectacular years. Edwards had a few good years when he didn't drop the ball or run his mouth. Thomas, Mack and Haden have been good even if Haden had a disaster of a 2015. The biggest issue really is total misses at QB and the last 4 years which is a life time of misery. Farmer was a disaster in judging talent and Pettine was just as bad. I'm not sure Gilbert is as bad as Pettine thought and how would he know since he rarely made the field. Gilbert was as least as good as 3-4 CB's that played most of the season. Too early to judge Shelton or Erving, Erving is a better run blocker than pass blocker and needs to put on 15 lbs of muscle and Shelton didn't have a lot of talent around him especually at lb.
Pettine's defensive scheme was horrible, he was a mishire as bad as they come. Farmer was horrible in judging talent, you could pick someone out of the stands and it would be an improvement.

Last Edited: 1/4/2016 6:26:03 PM by PhiTau74
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El Gato Roberto
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Attn Browns Fans re Pettine and Farmer
   Posted: 1/4/2016 8:49:44 PM 
Well, at least they didn't pick Bo Callahan.

"The name's Ohio University, but everybody calls me Ohio. Any of you guys call me Ohio U, and I'll kill you."
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OrlandoCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Attn Browns Fans re Pettine and Farmer
   Posted: 1/4/2016 11:23:48 PM 
The problem with being a Browns fan is:

You look at what they do, who they draft, and their on field results. You then look at your fantasy football team year after year and joke to your friends that you couldn't be any worse than who the Browns currently employ based on the success of your fantasy football teams.

Then they make a lawyer with no real football acumen their roster guru because he's 'really good' at fantasy football.

Their off-season needs to look like this:

1. Load up a Brinks Truck
2. Back it up to Sean Payton's house
3. Pray
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Attn Browns Fans re Pettine and Farmer
   Posted: 1/5/2016 11:02:18 AM 
They can't find talent, and yet somehow, Joe Thomas is a sure fire "Hall of Famer". Riiiigghtt.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT: Attn Browns Fans re Pettine and Farmer
   Posted: 1/5/2016 11:15:30 AM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:


Four seasons replete with several astounding losses, yet so many willing to take the wins vs. horrid kents, Ball and NIU (which had a huge qb gap) as proof that all is wonderful.

If acknowl that we had/have qb probs, it follows must admit that NIU's huge problem there may have had effect on our win.)

Ophthalmologist sought.


#1. Eye roll. at least attempt to stay on topic.
#2. Sorry, once again, by your own oft-repeated rule, Injuries happen, and you have to get past it. If it's not an excuse for Ohio (playing 3rd string QB in same game, which, as anyone who recently visited an ophthalmologist can see, severely limited our passing game), then it's not an excuse for NIU>

Last Edited: 1/5/2016 11:16:38 AM by Deciduous Forest Cat
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