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Topic:  OT - College sports, exploitation and race

Topic:  OT - College sports, exploitation and race
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Paul Graham
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  Message Not Read  OT - College sports, exploitation and race
   Posted: 1/11/2016 12:10:39 PM 
An interesting opinion piece appeared in the Washington Post yesterday (what curious timing!).

http://wapo.st/1MXeUM3


Here's my thoughts on the subject:

(1) - The amount of money being generated by college football (particularly the "football factory" schools) is creating an unsustainable situation. In my mind the question is now not "should they be paid some stipend of 30K or 50K?" But rather, should players be paid hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars per year, which is proportional to the revenue they are generating. This is of course only true for the Alabama's and the OSU's of the world as the injustice becomes increasingly less obscene as you move down to Lower_P5->G5->FCS->D2->D3 etc...

(2) - Race plays an issue here (I can already hear the groans from the Fox News contingent). The reason is obvious: top CFB teams are between 50-60% african american, about 5x more than the proportion nationally. **The optics of a crowd of (mostly) white fans watching teams of (mostly) young african american males play an (increasingly) dangerous game for the financial benefit of (mostly) whites is unsustainable.** I watched the Iron Bowl this year, and I almost never watch P5 CFB, and the racial dynamics of the whole thing just shocked me.

(2a) - The sad part of this is that some african american men - some from very modest backgrounds- that aren't outstanding students get to attend a good university under this system and (in some cases) have good outcomes. In a country where african american youth unemployment is at 51%, this is something to consider.

(3) - That said, the actual education provided is somewhat dubious. With such crazy demands on your time, the educational experience is very different than what many of us got to experience. For example, my degree was in computer science and the academic demands on my time were extraordinary. I'd get two shots of espresso from Donkey and buy a Red Bull and spend the whole night writing code in Russ (sorry for the aside). This type of very lucrative major is closed off to football players, as they simply wouldn't have the time to be successful with it.

(3a) - Thats at the high end of it. At the low end, players take crummy vocational majors that allow them the time they need to be successful on the football field. Tutors are provided to make sure they get this very low-level work done. In the worst case, professors and/or tutors collude to keep players on the field.

(4) - And finally the nail in the coffin is the violence of the game and the long term effects being uncovered. While its less of an issue than at the professional level, it begs the question: What business does a University have in being involved in such a game? This is the Malcolm Gladwell position.

(5) - On a personal note, I'm reaching a place where I'm finding it increasingly difficult to continue to watch the game for all of the reasons stated above (and in the WaPo piece as well as Gladwell's work). Frankly, it just collides with my own personal ethics and there may be a time in the future where I'll just have to move on to something else. Which is sad, because I love to talk Bobcats with my dad and I enjoy coming to BA.

I'm not trying to start an argument or challenge the ethics of others...but I do think that the situation now is unlikely to continue for much longer.





Last Edited: 1/11/2016 12:25:46 PM by Paul Graham
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OhioStunter
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT - College sports, exploitation and race
   Posted: 1/11/2016 12:23:54 PM 
I read that article yesterday before you posted it here and I have to admit that I went into reading it with potential eyerolling about the case of "athletes should be paid". I've been very much against that argument.

But the way this article and information was presented actually changed the way I think about this -- $18 BILLION generated by CFB and NCAA Tournaments?

Where is all of this money going? Certainly not to athletes nor to athletic departments outside of a handful of big-name schools to help support their programs.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/01/... /

(reposting the link because the one above didn't work for me when I went to check some facts)
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT - College sports, exploitation and race
   Posted: 1/11/2016 12:37:52 PM 
The race thing is an interesting dynamic in all of sports, not just college football. I don't have the figures in front of me, but one can pretty easily come to the theoretical conclusion that sports in the U.S. are largely a group of rich white males controlling a group of minorities on a playing field. I was interested in writing my Master's thesis on the subject, but there wasn't enough material out there to go off of.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT - College sports, exploitation and race
   Posted: 1/11/2016 1:22:55 PM 
To me, when I look at the racial factors in sports I see, not whites taking advantage of blacks, but one of the more successful affirmative action programs around. In order for it to work, though, the students really need to be students, and they really need to study, and get an education as well as a diploma. That's why I favor things like the APR, which has forced schools to focus more on education, and things like the Zook Academic Center.

I do tend to disagree with Paul about one thing, though. While I studied hard, at times, or on long hours, at times, there were also times when I didn't study efficiently. With tutors pushing me, and with help organizing my time, I'd have had time to to a lot more things. I do agree that football (or other sports) is a huge time burden, but for years there have been people that worked jobs while going to college. Having those time burdens has to change your approach, and efficiency, but it does not in and of itself exclude people from difficult majors.

Now, the injury thing bothers me more and more, so I agree with Paul there. As athletes have gotten bigger and faster, the violence of the game has increased, and I strongly believe that the injury rate is higher today than in the past, and the seriousness of the injuries is higher. If the result is to cripple a lot of young men, it's pretty hard to support it. It's also hard for me to support the high incidence of pain killer usage, and the problems that can lead to.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT - College sports, exploitation and race
   Posted: 1/11/2016 1:53:30 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:
The race thing is an interesting dynamic in all of sports, not just college football. I don't have the figures in front of me, but one can pretty easily come to the theoretical conclusion that sports in the U.S. are largely a group of rich white males controlling a group of minorities on a playing field. I was interested in writing my Master's thesis on the subject, but there wasn't enough material out there to go off of.


When you put it in those terms it's kind of like the Romans and the gladiators or the Romans and the Christians. I once happened into a sports bar on a golf trip to Florida when MMA was just getting started. Every face in the place was fixated on a TV and it didn't take much to see blood coming out of their mouths as they anticipated the kill. It was so disgusting we ordered one beer and left.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT - College sports, exploitation and race
   Posted: 1/11/2016 2:08:24 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
The race thing is an interesting dynamic in all of sports, not just college football. I don't have the figures in front of me, but one can pretty easily come to the theoretical conclusion that sports in the U.S. are largely a group of rich white males controlling a group of minorities on a playing field. I was interested in writing my Master's thesis on the subject, but there wasn't enough material out there to go off of.


When you put it in those terms it's kind of like the Romans and the gladiators or the Romans and the Christians. I once happened into a sports bar on a golf trip to Florida when MMA was just getting started. Every face in the place was fixated on a TV and it didn't take much to see blood coming out of their mouths as they anticipated the kill. It was so disgusting we ordered one beer and left.



Which is exactly why I don't watch MMA. I can handle football violence to a degree. But MMA is like human cockfighting.

Comedian Nick Swardson has a great bit about MMA fighters. Paraphrasing but it's something like:

Reporter: So what's your day gonna be like?
MMA Fighter: A f***** nightmare?



Last Edited: 1/11/2016 2:09:07 PM by GoCats105
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OhioStunter
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT - College sports, exploitation and race
   Posted: 1/11/2016 2:25:47 PM 
L.C. wrote:
To me, when I look at the racial factors in sports I see, not whites taking advantage of blacks, but one of the more successful affirmative action programs around. In order for it to work, though, the students really need to be students, and they really need to study, and get an education as well as a diploma. That's why I favor things like the APR, which has forced schools to focus more on education, and things like the Zook Academic Center.



I think most of us favor that. And there is certainly an obligation for a student-athlete to make the most of his/her scholarship and get a degree -- regardless of race. However, that is not the reality for way too many student-athletes. These numbers cited in the article show that.

I can see the argument that says, "hey, we gave them a full college education, it's up to them to stay in school and/or make a living with it."

I can also see the other argument that says, "you know full well that bringing in many of these athletes will result in 1-2 years of on-field success and they'll graduate with a meaningless degree or drop out."


From the article: "Yes, the scholarships received by football and basketball players provide an economic benefit. However, they come with onerous restrictions and no promise of an education. The 2013 Penn study found that black male student athletes graduated at lower rates than other black men at 72 percent of institutions with big-time football and basketball programs — and lower than other undergraduates overall at 97 percent of them."
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT - College sports, exploitation and race
   Posted: 1/11/2016 3:02:34 PM 
L.C. wrote:
To me, when I look at the racial factors in sports I see, not whites taking advantage of blacks, but one of the more successful affirmative action programs around. In order for it to work, though, the students really need to be students, and they really need to study, and get an education as well as a diploma. That's why I favor things like the APR, which has forced schools to focus more on education, and things like the Zook Academic Center.



I'll disagree slightly here, and it mostly deals with P5 schools. The really powerful P5 schools could care less if they are getting kids that graduate to a certain degree. They want to win so they can keep their jobs. To win, they have to get the best athletes. Sure the athletes have to do some work to stay eligible, but the really high profile athletes are doing what they have to get by and that's about it.

One of the most amazing things to me is that the fans of these powerful schools are so blinded by it. They think these kids are darling angels who go to class and get straight As and do everything by the book. Shake yourself. Remember that SI article about Oklahoma State football? Look at what has happened at North Carolina!

Schools like Ohio might not have that problem since they put a higher premium and emphasis on the academic side of it. But like the article already suggests, money rules the college athletic world.

The schools really aren't the problem. It's the NCAA. The schools hold the power to do something about it since the NCAA only exists because of its member schools, but the cash cow is so big that I think they're scared to take it down.

Last Edited: 1/11/2016 3:05:08 PM by GoCats105
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Mike Johnson
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT - College sports, exploitation and race
   Posted: 1/11/2016 3:54:37 PM 
Paul Graham wrote:
An interesting opinion piece appeared in the Washington Post yesterday (what curious timing!).

http://wapo.st/1MXeUM3


Here's my thoughts on the subject:

(1) - The amount of money being generated by college football (particularly the "football factory" schools) is creating an unsustainable situation. In my mind the question is now not "should they be paid some stipend of 30K or 50K?" But rather, should players be paid hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars per year, which is proportional to the revenue they are generating. This is of course only true for the Alabama's and the OSU's of the world as the injustice becomes increasingly less obscene as you move down to Lower_P5->G5->FCS->D2->D3 etc...

(2) - Race plays an issue here (I can already hear the groans from the Fox News contingent). The reason is obvious: top CFB teams are between 50-60% african american, about 5x more than the proportion nationally. **The optics of a crowd of (mostly) white fans watching teams of (mostly) young african american males play an (increasingly) dangerous game for the financial benefit of (mostly) whites is unsustainable.** I watched the Iron Bowl this year, and I almost never watch P5 CFB, and the racial dynamics of the whole thing just shocked me.

(2a) - The sad part of this is that some african american men - some from very modest backgrounds- that aren't outstanding students get to attend a good university under this system and (in some cases) have good outcomes. In a country where african american youth unemployment is at 51%, this is something to consider.

(3) - That said, the actual education provided is somewhat dubious. With such crazy demands on your time, the educational experience is very different than what many of us got to experience. For example, my degree was in computer science and the academic demands on my time were extraordinary. I'd get two shots of espresso from Donkey and buy a Red Bull and spend the whole night writing code in Russ (sorry for the aside). This type of very lucrative major is closed off to football players, as they simply wouldn't have the time to be successful with it.

(3a) - Thats at the high end of it. At the low end, players take crummy vocational majors that allow them the time they need to be successful on the football field. Tutors are provided to make sure they get this very low-level work done. In the worst case, professors and/or tutors collude to keep players on the field.

(4) - And finally the nail in the coffin is the violence of the game and the long term effects being uncovered. While its less of an issue than at the professional level, it begs the question: What business does a University have in being involved in such a game? This is the Malcolm Gladwell position.

(5) - On a personal note, I'm reaching a place where I'm finding it increasingly difficult to continue to watch the game for all of the reasons stated above (and in the WaPo piece as well as Gladwell's work). Frankly, it just collides with my own personal ethics and there may be a time in the future where I'll just have to move on to something else. Which is sad, because I love to talk Bobcats with my dad and I enjoy coming to BA.

I'm not trying to start an argument or challenge the ethics of others...but I do think that the situation now is unlikely to continue for much longer.







Re "very lucrative majors" being "closed off to football players." Hmmm...How about football players majoring in engineering, finance, human resource management and other lucrative majors? Some do and excel in classroom as well as on field.

http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT - College sports, exploitation and race
   Posted: 1/11/2016 5:37:41 PM 
Just curious, anyone know why we quit putting the major of our football players in the media guide?
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D.A.
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT - College sports, exploitation and race
   Posted: 1/11/2016 5:53:27 PM 
I've stated my opinion here many times: if there is a problem it is restraint of trade, not racism and exploitation of any audience of potential participants.

However, the professional football and basketball leagues have been complicit in a complex method of collusion with colleges to prevent legitimate low level professional leagues from existing as an alternative training grounds for athletes that wish to provide their services for profit to a willing, paying audience.

I would be 100% fine with seeing the system dismantled for all sports to provide a hockey type system to exist for all sports.

NEVER...GONNA...HAPPEN...

Last Edited: 1/11/2016 5:54:05 PM by D.A.

The Few, The Proud, The Bobcats!

And for the record, I hate tOSU, and Ricordati and Torgerson are DB's.

"This isn't just another walkover from the MAC." Kirk Herbstreit, another DB, on College Football Gameday
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The Situation
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT - College sports, exploitation and race
   Posted: 1/11/2016 7:02:16 PM 
1 vote for not racism.

To me, in a rudimentary way, college sports at the D1 level seem to be 2 parts communism, 1 part capitalism. I don't think prescriptions solely based in capitalism are going to cure this monster.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT - College sports, exploitation and race
   Posted: 1/11/2016 8:38:22 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:
L.C. wrote:
To me, when I look at the racial factors in sports I see.....

I'll disagree slightly here, and it mostly deals with P5 schools. The really powerful P5 schools could care less if they are getting kids that graduate to a certain degree. They want to win so they can keep their jobs. To win, they have to get the best athletes. Sure the athletes have to do some work to stay eligible, but the really high profile athletes are doing what they have to get by and that's about it. ...

Unfortunately I have to agree with you as far as the P5. I don't have the feeling that Ohio is in that boat, however. I feel like one of Solich's strengths is that he really cares that the students do well in school. I think it's a credit to the University that the cornerstone project for the Athletic Department is a new Academic Center to help student athletes.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT - College sports, exploitation and race
   Posted: 1/12/2016 7:14:50 AM 
A friend of mine's son got into Stanford on a football scholarship.

As soon as he ws accepted he got a got a diet and exercise program for football.

Nothing similar on the academic side.

He wanted to major in pre-med.
He was smart,but didn't concentrate on academics in high school.

The coaches told him that with the time demands for football and his academic history he'd never be able to keep up and stay elibible,even with tutors.

They told him to take an easier major and,if he was still interested in pre-med,do it after his playing days (college/pro) were over.
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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT - College sports, exploitation and race
   Posted: 1/12/2016 7:34:02 AM 
Mike Johnson wrote:
Paul Graham wrote:
An interesting opinion piece appeared in the Washington Post yesterday (what curious timing!).

http://wapo.st/1MXeUM3


Here's my thoughts on the subject:

(1) - The amount of money being generated by college football (particularly the "football factory" schools) is creating an unsustainable situation. In my mind the question is now not "should they be paid some stipend of 30K or 50K?" But rather, should players be paid hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars per year, which is proportional to the revenue they are generating. This is of course only true for the Alabama's and the OSU's of the world as the injustice becomes increasingly less obscene as you move down to Lower_P5->G5->FCS->D2->D3 etc...

(2) - Race plays an issue here (I can already hear the groans from the Fox News contingent). The reason is obvious: top CFB teams are between 50-60% african american, about 5x more than the proportion nationally. **The optics of a crowd of (mostly) white fans watching teams of (mostly) young african american males play an (increasingly) dangerous game for the financial benefit of (mostly) whites is unsustainable.** I watched the Iron Bowl this year, and I almost never watch P5 CFB, and the racial dynamics of the whole thing just shocked me.

(2a) - The sad part of this is that some african american men - some from very modest backgrounds- that aren't outstanding students get to attend a good university under this system and (in some cases) have good outcomes. In a country where african american youth unemployment is at 51%, this is something to consider.

(3) - That said, the actual education provided is somewhat dubious. With such crazy demands on your time, the educational experience is very different than what many of us got to experience. For example, my degree was in computer science and the academic demands on my time were extraordinary. I'd get two shots of espresso from Donkey and buy a Red Bull and spend the whole night writing code in Russ (sorry for the aside). This type of very lucrative major is closed off to football players, as they simply wouldn't have the time to be successful with it.

(3a) - Thats at the high end of it. At the low end, players take crummy vocational majors that allow them the time they need to be successful on the football field. Tutors are provided to make sure they get this very low-level work done. In the worst case, professors and/or tutors collude to keep players on the field.

(4) - And finally the nail in the coffin is the violence of the game and the long term effects being uncovered. While its less of an issue than at the professional level, it begs the question: What business does a University have in being involved in such a game? This is the Malcolm Gladwell position.

(5) - On a personal note, I'm reaching a place where I'm finding it increasingly difficult to continue to watch the game for all of the reasons stated above (and in the WaPo piece as well as Gladwell's work). Frankly, it just collides with my own personal ethics and there may be a time in the future where I'll just have to move on to something else. Which is sad, because I love to talk Bobcats with my dad and I enjoy coming to BA.

I'm not trying to start an argument or challenge the ethics of others...but I do think that the situation now is unlikely to continue for much longer.







Re "very lucrative majors" being "closed off to football players." Hmmm...How about football players majoring in engineering, finance, human resource management and other lucrative majors? Some do and excel in classroom as well as on field.



Jason Arkley Retweeted Darren Rovell

Aka Party Right Through May (PRTM)

Jason Arkley added,
Darren Rovell @darrenrovell
Most popular major on the Clemson football team? Parks, Recreation & Tourism Management (21 players).



"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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Mike Johnson
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT - College sports, exploitation and race
   Posted: 1/12/2016 8:29:16 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
A friend of mine's son got into Stanford on a football scholarship.

As soon as he ws accepted he got a got a diet and exercise program for football.

Nothing similar on the academic side.

He wanted to major in pre-med.
He was smart,but didn't concentrate on academics in high school.

The coaches told him that with the time demands for football and his academic history he'd never be able to keep up and stay elibible,even with tutors.

They told him to take an easier major and,if he was still interested in pre-med,do it after his playing days (college/pro) were over.


Interesting...While I was at Stanford (GSB), I had a long chat with one of the Cardinal football players. His take on his teammates went as follows: They had done well in HS and on college boards, there were no easy majors and expectations were high.

Perhaps things have changed since back in that day. Although I do recall during Stanford's bowl win announcers citing McCaffrey's difficult major and the program's 99% grad rate.

http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author

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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT - College sports, exploitation and race
   Posted: 1/12/2016 8:49:35 AM 
Mike Johnson wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
A friend of mine's son got into Stanford on a football scholarship.

As soon as he ws accepted he got a got a diet and exercise program for football.

Nothing similar on the academic side.

He wanted to major in pre-med.
He was smart,but didn't concentrate on academics in high school.

The coaches told him that with the time demands for football and his academic history he'd never be able to keep up and stay elibible,even with tutors.

They told him to take an easier major and,if he was still interested in pre-med,do it after his playing days (college/pro) were over.


Interesting...While I was at Stanford (GSB), I had a long chat with one of the Cardinal football players. His take on his teammates went as follows: They had done well in HS and on college boards, there were no easy majors and expectations were high.

Perhaps things have changed since back in that day. Although I do recall during Stanford's bowl win announcers citing McCaffrey's difficult major and the program's 99% grad rate.


Army, Air Force and Navy also have great student/athletes.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT - College sports, exploitation and race
   Posted: 1/12/2016 8:52:54 AM 
Mike Johnson wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
A friend of mine's son got into Stanford on a football scholarship.

As soon as he ws accepted he got a got a diet and exercise program for football.

Nothing similar on the academic side.

He wanted to major in pre-med.
He was smart,but didn't concentrate on academics in high school.

The coaches told him that with the time demands for football and his academic history he'd never be able to keep up and stay elibible,even with tutors.

They told him to take an easier major and,if he was still interested in pre-med,do it after his playing days (college/pro) were over.


Interesting...While I was at Stanford (GSB), I had a long chat with one of the Cardinal football players. His take on his teammates went as follows: They had done well in HS and on college boards, there were no easy majors and expectations were high.

Perhaps things have changed since back in that day. Although I do recall during Stanford's bowl win announcers citing McCaffrey's difficult major and the program's 99% grad rate.


There are exceptions to every rule, of course. I think former OSU QB Craig Krenzel majored in something like molecular genetics, which is absurd for a starting QB of a national championship team.

But I think you'll find more like Rovell's example above which Arkley retweeted.
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mf279801
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT - College sports, exploitation and race
   Posted: 1/12/2016 10:29:27 AM 
GoCats105 wrote:


There are exceptions to every rule, of course. I think former OSU QB Craig Krenzel majored in something like molecular genetics, which is absurd for a starting QB of a national championship team.

But I think you'll find more like Rovell's example above which Arkley retweeted.



Pfff, you say that as if molecular genetics is hard
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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT - College sports, exploitation and race
   Posted: 1/12/2016 11:09:51 AM 
I agree with DA's post. If there were minor league options in football and basketball you wouldn't have players hiding in classes and majors that will not help them in the future.

But, sing no sad songs for those student athletes. They were given an opportunity to go to school and earn a degree. People succeed and fail in life every day. We don't care about the kid who drops out that was working at the cafeteria. Why should we care about these guys who are mostly coddled?

Regarding the new athletic academic center, why further segregate these student athletes? Why not go to the library like we all did? They didn't get to be scholarship athletes without having some discipline. They worked hard to be great athletes. Learn from that and work hard to be a good student and make something of yourself. How worthwhile is your education if it has to be spoon fed by tutors just so you can get by?
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Paul Graham
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT - College sports, exploitation and race
   Posted: 1/12/2016 12:01:50 PM 
Mike Johnson wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
A friend of mine's son got into Stanford on a football scholarship.

As soon as he ws accepted he got a got a diet and exercise program for football.

Nothing similar on the academic side.

He wanted to major in pre-med.
He was smart,but didn't concentrate on academics in high school.

The coaches told him that with the time demands for football and his academic history he'd never be able to keep up and stay elibible,even with tutors.

They told him to take an easier major and,if he was still interested in pre-med,do it after his playing days (college/pro) were over.


Interesting...While I was at Stanford (GSB), I had a long chat with one of the Cardinal football players. His take on his teammates went as follows: They had done well in HS and on college boards, there were no easy majors and expectations were high.

Perhaps things have changed since back in that day. Although I do recall during Stanford's bowl win announcers citing McCaffrey's difficult major and the program's 99% grad rate.


You can see all the majors of football players by school here...

http://bit.ly/1OoVNN8

One interesting thing w.r.t Stanford. Computer Science is the #1 major at Stanford right now...and with Google and FB right down the street and paying 6 figure signing bonuses right out of undergrad that should not be much of a surprise. And yet no FB player is enrolled in that major.

I think that backs up rpbobcat's point about football players - even at Stanford - being directed away from certain majors.

Of course, the point is not that these players are going to starve after they graduate. Just that the "payment" solely of free tuition comes with some caveats.
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OhioStunter
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT - College sports, exploitation and race
   Posted: 1/12/2016 5:19:04 PM 
giacomo wrote:


But, sing no sad songs for those student athletes. They were given an opportunity to go to school and earn a degree. People succeed and fail in life every day. We don't care about the kid who drops out that was working at the cafeteria. Why should we care about these guys who are mostly coddled?



A year ago, I felt the same way. Now, I'm realizing more that these guys who are "coddled" are also putting their health at risk, being steered more toward "easier" degrees that may not really be worth as much and are the key ingredient to a money-making machine for which they will not even see a fraction of the return of.

Yes, I do acknowledge that they should take advantage of the education provided them in return. That this may be the ONLY way for them to make something of themselves professionally. However, the stats don't prove that in most cases.

Also, in listening to the game last night, I'm realizing that Alabama's coaching staff has at least 3 former NFL coaches and the total coaching staff salary for the year is $5.2 MILLION*. They are making big money on the backs of the players. So is the NCAA.


*Edit: that is ONLY for assistant coaches -- Saban's is $7M -- thanks Bcat2.

Last Edited: 1/12/2016 5:58:31 PM by OhioStunter
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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT - College sports, exploitation and race
   Posted: 1/12/2016 5:26:46 PM 
OhioStunter wrote:
giacomo wrote:


But, sing no sad songs for those student athletes. They were given an opportunity to go to school and earn a degree. People succeed and fail in life every day. We don't care about the kid who drops out that was working at the cafeteria. Why should we care about these guys who are mostly coddled?



A year ago, I felt the same way. Now, I'm realizing more that these guys who are "coddled" are also putting their health at risk, being steered more toward "easier" degrees that may not really be worth as much and are the key ingredient to a money-making machine for which they will not even see a fraction of the return of.

Yes, I do acknowledge that they should take advantage of the education provided them in return. That this may be the ONLY way for them to make something of themselves professionally. However, the stats don't prove that in most cases.

Also, in listening to the game last night, I'm realizing that Alabama's coaching staff has at least 3 former NFL coaches and the total coaching staff salary for the year is $5.2 MILLION. They are making big money on the backs of the players. So is the NCAA.




Saben now at 7M himself.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2013/12/14/52098...

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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OhioStunter
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT - College sports, exploitation and race
   Posted: 1/12/2016 5:55:31 PM 
Once you go pro, you can't play college ball. So should former pro coaches be allowed to coach in college?
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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: OT - College sports, exploitation and race
   Posted: 1/12/2016 6:06:29 PM 
OhioStunter, back in the day I had discussions with an "academic advisor" who tried to steer me toward some easier classes during the season. I told them I was my own advisor and I needed to take certain classes to pursue my business degree. I had a goal of graduating in 4 years. I struggled and got decent grades, nothing to brag about, but accomplished my goal. I'm far better off for navigating the system and not allowing myself to be led down a path that was not for me. They have the responsibility to themselves to try and succeed.
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