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| Topic: Ohio versus the top of the MAC |
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Paul Graham
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| Ohio versus the top of the MAC |
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Posted: 10/18/2015 1:32:14 AM |
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0-11
That is Ohio's record against the top 5 MAC teams from each season (just choosing the five teams with the best conference records for that year) since 2012. The average loss of those games is 21.3 points.
2012
Kent - Lost 28-6 (-22)
Ball State - Lost 52-27 (-25)
Bowling Green - Lost 26-14 (12)
2013
CMU - Lost 26-23 (-3)
Buffalo - Lost 30-3 (-27)
Bowling Green - Lost 49-0 (-49)
2014
CMU - Lost 28-10 (-18)
Bowling Green - Lost 31-13 (-18)
WMU - Lost 42-21 (-19)
NIU - Lost 21-14 (-7)
2015
WMU - Lost 49-14 (-35)
EDIT: I really like this team and I hope I'll be able to add to this list a defeat of BG and/or NIU.
Last Edited: 10/18/2015 1:36:59 AM by Paul Graham
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ytownbobcat
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| RE: Ohio versus the top of the MAC |
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Posted: 10/18/2015 11:48:10 AM |
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If you look at yesterdays scores the top MAC West trounced the East. Add Bowling Green and you see we have a league of haves and have nots.
Toledo, CMU,WMU and NIU in the West and BG in the East are far superior at this time.
What should be the changes employed at Ohio to move us into an elite status?
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Paul Graham
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| RE: Ohio versus the top of the MAC |
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Posted: 10/18/2015 2:08:26 PM |
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| ytownbobcat wrote: | |
If you look at yesterdays scores the top MAC West trounced the East. Add Bowling Green and you see we have a league of haves and have nots.
Toledo, CMU,WMU and NIU in the West and BG in the East are far superior at this time.
What should be the changes employed at Ohio to move us into an elite status? |
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Here are my thoughts on how this happened (Ohio is no longer a top MAC program) and how it could be fixed:
Programs like BGSU, WMU and Toledo I think are really elevating the overall level of play in the conference. And most importantly they are doing so by scoring lots of points and fielding teams with BCS-level talent on the offensive side of the ball.
Yesterday we got shredded by a team filled with 3 and 4 star players, many of whom are sophomores or younger. Bogan, Davis, Bellamy, Franklin were are all 3 stars or better coming out of HS. Sometimes that matters, sometimes it doesn't. In this case, Fleck is getting guys that are living up to that billing.
Gone are the days when we could field a good defense, play "efficient" offensively and expect to will our way to a MACC game. Its not going to happen.
Solich and Co. (and perhaps some on this message board) need to adjust their expectation of what it looks like to be successful in this conference. Its a new era and there needs to be some post-Troy State like soul searching if we are ever to be a "player" in this conference again.
That said, who knows what capitulations we would need to make to be competitive with the Big Boys. Perhaps Solich Ball is good enough for us...as we can at least be proud we run a good clean program that still beats up on the bottom 2/3 of the conference.
Last Edited: 10/18/2015 2:09:14 PM by Paul Graham
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L.C.
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| RE: Ohio versus the top of the MAC |
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Posted: 10/18/2015 2:17:55 PM |
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| Paul Graham wrote: | |
| ...Solich and Co. (and perhaps some on this message board) need to adjust their expectation of what it looks like to be successful in this conference. Its a new era and there needs to be some post-Troy State like soul searching if we are ever to be a "player" in this conference again.... |
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I would agree that I'd like to see them set the bar higher in recruiting. The last few years they have been able to fill the bulk of the class early. I'd rather the bar was higher, and have it take a little longer to fill. I'm not knocking the players that Ohio has, just saying that to continue to progress, they need to keep raising the bar in all areas.
“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus
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The Situation
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| RE: Ohio versus the top of the MAC |
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Posted: 10/18/2015 5:18:30 PM |
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In 2012 OHIO beat an 8 win Penn State team.
In 2013 OHIO beat a 10 win Marshall team.
Make these conference distinctions all you want, but if a team doesn't win their division, their conference record is quite literally meaningless. There's no prize for coming 2nd in the division. There's no prize for beating the "top teams in the division".
You're literally creating a post for the sole purpose of making yourself unhappy.
If you want to take a hard look at beating good teams, OHIO beat good teams in 2012 and 2013.
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Paul Graham
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| RE: Ohio versus the top of the MAC |
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Posted: 10/18/2015 5:40:13 PM |
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| The Situation wrote: | |
In 2012 OHIO beat an 8 win Penn State team.
In 2013 OHIO beat a 10 win Marshall team.
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Those are both good wins, I really enjoyed the Penn State one.
Regardless, I think you're in a very small minority of people here that think this is not a pattern worthy of discussion.
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allen
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| RE: Ohio versus the top of the MAC |
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Posted: 10/18/2015 5:40:25 PM |
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We have had moments, we need consistency. Go Cats
Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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bobcat695
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| RE: Ohio versus the top of the MAC |
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Posted: 10/18/2015 5:43:28 PM |
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| Paul Graham wrote: | |
| ytownbobcat wrote: | |
If you look at yesterdays scores the top MAC West trounced the East. Add Bowling Green and you see we have a league of haves and have nots.
Toledo, CMU,WMU and NIU in the West and BG in the East are far superior at this time.
What should be the changes employed at Ohio to move us into an elite status? |
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Here are my thoughts on how this happened (Ohio is no longer a top MAC program) and how it could be fixed:
Programs like BGSU, WMU and Toledo I think are really elevating the overall level of play in the conference. And most importantly they are doing so by scoring lots of points and fielding teams with BCS-level talent on the offensive side of the ball.
Yesterday we got shredded by a team filled with 3 and 4 star players, many of whom are sophomores or younger. Bogan, Davis, Bellamy, Franklin were are all 3 stars or better coming out of HS. Sometimes that matters, sometimes it doesn't. In this case, Fleck is getting guys that are living up to that billing.
Gone are the days when we could field a good defense, play "efficient" offensively and expect to will our way to a MACC game. Its not going to happen.
Solich and Co. (and perhaps some on this message board) need to adjust their expectation of what it looks like to be successful in this conference. Its a new era and there needs to be some post-Troy State like soul searching if we are ever to be a "player" in this conference again.
That said, who knows what capitulations we would need to make to be competitive with the Big Boys. Perhaps Solich Ball is good enough for us...as we can at least be proud we run a good clean program that still beats up on the bottom 2/3 of the conference.
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You could substitute SEC with MAC and Spurrier with Solich and this looks like the transcript from a press conference last week in Columbia, SC.
"You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15
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The Situation
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| RE: Ohio versus the top of the MAC |
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Posted: 10/18/2015 5:46:39 PM |
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| Paul Graham wrote: | |
| The Situation wrote: | |
In 2012 OHIO beat an 8 win Penn State team.
In 2013 OHIO beat a 10 win Marshall team.
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Those are both good wins, I really enjoyed the Penn State one.
Regardless, I think you're in a very small minority of people here that think this is not a pattern worthy of discussion.
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"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority it's time to pause and reflect." -- Mark Twain
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MonroeClassmate
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| RE: Ohio versus the top of the MAC |
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Posted: 10/18/2015 9:50:00 PM |
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Some here have said: Run the ball, stop the run, win the game.
vs MAC (Akron, Miami, WMU) OHIO is:
12th in rushing offense, 12th in average per carry
10th in rushing defense, 12th in average gain per carry
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Bcat2
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| RE: Ohio versus the top of the MAC |
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Posted: 10/18/2015 10:23:49 PM |
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| MonroeClassmate wrote: | |
Some here have said: Run the ball, stop the run, win the game.
vs MAC (Akron, Miami, WMU) OHIO is:
12th in rushing offense, 12th in average per carry
10th in rushing defense, 12th in average gain per carry
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Toledo is 1st Rushing Offense, 3rd Rushing Defense.
Also since "Defense Wins Championships," Toledo is #1 Scoring Defense.
Strange given the Western game #2 Scoring Defense is "Ohio."
"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK
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OhioCatFan
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| RE: Ohio versus the top of the MAC |
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Posted: 10/18/2015 11:10:13 PM |
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| The Situation wrote: | |
| "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority it's time to pause and reflect." -- Mark Twain |
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+1
The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA
"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."
Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org
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Mark Lembright '85
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| RE: Ohio versus the top of the MAC |
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Posted: 10/19/2015 8:41:54 AM |
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| Paul Graham wrote: | |
0-11
That is Ohio's record against the top 5 MAC teams from each season (just choosing the five teams with the best conference records for that year) since 2012. The average loss of those games is 21.3 points.
2012
Kent - Lost 28-6 (-22)
Ball State - Lost 52-27 (-25)
Bowling Green - Lost 26-14 (12)
2013
CMU - Lost 26-23 (-3)
Buffalo - Lost 30-3 (-27)
Bowling Green - Lost 49-0 (-49)
2014
CMU - Lost 28-10 (-18)
Bowling Green - Lost 31-13 (-18)
WMU - Lost 42-21 (-19)
NIU - Lost 21-14 (-7)
2015
WMU - Lost 49-14 (-35)
EDIT: I really like this team and I hope I'll be able to add to this list a defeat of BG and/or NIU.
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This is the trend that has me the most concerned. While Ohio has some nice OOC wins, their recent record against the elite of the MAC is abysmal, and the trend is now in its 4th year. While even I get bored with Monroe's constant drumbeat of a lack of a MACC, I think his point and what Paul is stating in this thread are very accurate. I love what Coach Solich has done for the program but I am questioning whether he can get the program over the hurdle. Is he the "Marty Schottenheimer" of college football?
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GoCats105
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| RE: Ohio versus the top of the MAC |
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Posted: 10/19/2015 9:52:22 AM |
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| Mark Lembright '85 wrote: | |
| Paul Graham wrote: | |
0-11
That is Ohio's record against the top 5 MAC teams from each season (just choosing the five teams with the best conference records for that year) since 2012. The average loss of those games is 21.3 points.
2012
Kent - Lost 28-6 (-22)
Ball State - Lost 52-27 (-25)
Bowling Green - Lost 26-14 (12)
2013
CMU - Lost 26-23 (-3)
Buffalo - Lost 30-3 (-27)
Bowling Green - Lost 49-0 (-49)
2014
CMU - Lost 28-10 (-18)
Bowling Green - Lost 31-13 (-18)
WMU - Lost 42-21 (-19)
NIU - Lost 21-14 (-7)
2015
WMU - Lost 49-14 (-35)
EDIT: I really like this team and I hope I'll be able to add to this list a defeat of BG and/or NIU.
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This is the trend that has me the most concerned. While Ohio has some nice OOC wins, their recent record against the elite of the MAC is abysmal, and the trend is now in its 4th year. While even I get bored with Monroe's constant drumbeat of a lack of a MACC, I think his point and what Paul is stating in this thread are very accurate. I love what Coach Solich has done for the program but I am questioning whether he can get the program over the hurdle. Is he the "Marty Schottenheimer" of college football?
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I was thinking more the Marvin Lewis of college football.
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Recovering Journalist
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| RE: Ohio versus the top of the MAC |
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Posted: 10/19/2015 10:13:50 AM |
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This post is completely valid. As I said in the prediction thread, the Western game was where we'd either be revealed to be a good team or exposed. We were exposed, and we have been by the top half of the MAC for three straight years. I lived through the 1-win seasons as a student so I know terrible football, but I'm officially tired of 6-7 win seasons that include FCS teams and a handful of the worst teams in FBS. This season is shaping up as another now that the team is dinged up and shell shocked. I see one or two more wins at the most left on this schedule. Another year of mediocrity.
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Bcat2
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| RE: Ohio versus the top of the MAC |
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Posted: 10/19/2015 10:59:47 AM |
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| Recovering Journalist wrote: | |
| This post is completely valid. As I said in the prediction thread, the Western game was where we'd either be revealed to be a good team or exposed. We were exposed, and we have been by the top half of the MAC for three straight years. I lived through the 1-win seasons as a student so I know terrible football, but I'm officially tired of 6-7 win seasons that include FCS teams and a handful of the worst teams in FBS. This season is shaping up as another now that the team is dinged up and shell shocked. I see one or two more wins at the most left on this schedule. Another year of mediocrity. |
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I suppose Western fans were equally perturbed after the Georgia Southern loss. With what, nine preseason All MAC players on the roster they were/are a very good team. Fortunately for their fans the Western team was able to regroup. Five and two is the record I expected at this point. Was anyone seriously expecting better? Next thing is to get rid of the bad taste of the Western loss. To do so you need to be looking ahead, not backward. Buffalo needs to be the focus. There are some very proud young men on the Ohio O & D lines. I expect them to respond well and for Buffalo to taste better than Bronco.
"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK
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Recovering Journalist
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| RE: Ohio versus the top of the MAC |
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Posted: 10/19/2015 11:16:12 AM |
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| Bcat2 wrote: | |
I suppose Western fans were equally perturbed after the Georgia Southern loss. With what, nine preseason All MAC players on the roster they were/are a very good team. Fortunately for their fans the Western team was able to regroup. Five and two is the record I expected at this point. Was anyone seriously expecting better? Next thing is to get rid of the bad taste of the Western loss. To do so you need to be looking ahead, not backward. Buffalo needs to be the focus. There are some very proud young men on the Ohio O & D lines. I expect them to respond well and for Buffalo to taste better than Bronco. |
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You're ignoring the title of this post. We have an extensive body of work that demonstrates Ohio football has measured up poorly with the top tier of our conference for three years. You can keep apologizing or talking about beating Marshall, but until we're beating good MAC teams, we'll keep blazing out to phony 4-2 or 5-1 starts before settling in to another middling MAC season.
Imagine if our basketball team didn't beat a single decent conference team for three straight years. We would all demand change. I don't know why anyone defends the putrid record against good MAC teams that Paul has accurately outlined above.
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oucs 1986
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| RE: Ohio versus the top of the MAC |
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Posted: 10/19/2015 11:34:19 AM |
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| ytownbobcat wrote: | |
If you look at yesterdays scores the top MAC West trounced the East. Add Bowling Green and you see we have a league of haves and have nots.
Toledo, CMU,WMU and NIU in the West and BG in the East are far superior at this time.
What should be the changes employed at Ohio to move us into an elite status? |
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Strippers?
It seems to work for other programs...
Only sort-of kidding,
-john
Go Bobcats!
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Bcat2
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| RE: Ohio versus the top of the MAC |
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Posted: 10/19/2015 11:41:21 AM |
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| Recovering Journalist wrote: | |
| Bcat2 wrote: | |
I suppose Western fans were equally perturbed after the Georgia Southern loss. With what, nine preseason All MAC players on the roster they were/are a very good team. Fortunately for their fans the Western team was able to regroup. Five and two is the record I expected at this point. Was anyone seriously expecting better? Next thing is to get rid of the bad taste of the Western loss. To do so you need to be looking ahead, not backward. Buffalo needs to be the focus. There are some very proud young men on the Ohio O & D lines. I expect them to respond well and for Buffalo to taste better than Bronco. |
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You're ignoring the title of this post. We have an extensive body of work that demonstrates Ohio football has measured up poorly with the top tier of our conference for three years. You can keep apologizing or talking about beating Marshall, but until we're beating good MAC teams, we'll keep blazing out to phony 4-2 or 5-1 starts before settling in to another middling MAC season.
Imagine if our basketball team didn't beat a single decent conference team for three straight years. We would all demand change. I don't know why anyone defends the putrid record against good MAC teams that Paul has accurately outlined above. |
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Five and two is the record I expected at this point. Was anyone seriously expecting better? Next thing is to get rid of the bad taste of the Western loss. To do so you need to be looking ahead, not backward. Buffalo needs to be the focus. There are some very proud young men on the Ohio O & D lines. I expect them to respond well and for Buffalo to taste better than Bronco.
"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK
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OhioCatFan
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| RE: Ohio versus the top of the MAC |
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Posted: 10/19/2015 12:23:23 PM |
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And, Falcon will taste even better. I think you are going to see a much improved team over the next few weeks. From all reports these guys are very coachable and will learn from their mistakes, of which there were plenty on Saturday. If you are expecting another egg laying at BG, I think you'll be disappointed. ;-)
The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA
"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."
Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org
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GoCats105
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| RE: Ohio versus the top of the MAC |
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Posted: 10/19/2015 12:29:16 PM |
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This board is hilarious some times. A week ago, there were people on this board predicting we'd beat Western by one, two and maybe even three scores. Those same people are now more or less "OK" with a 35-point butt-kicking.
It's even more hilarious that that same group continues to argue with the group who thinks things need to be changed at some level. The people who want changes more or less keep copying and pasting what they wrote the previous week.
Just come join the middle where it's less stressful. A lot of you would probably be better off.
I forgot why message boards were so entertaining.
Thanks, everyone.
Last Edited: 10/19/2015 12:29:54 PM by GoCats105
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OhioCatFan
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| RE: Ohio versus the top of the MAC |
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Posted: 10/19/2015 1:04:34 PM |
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Who's OK with a 35-point loss? I really want those posters singled out. They should be in the Bobcat Hall of Shame. I don't think I've seen anyone who was OK with it. Some are apoplectic about it. Some are using it for their own -- not so hidden -- agenda. Others are saying it means that will not win another game this year. Some are suggesting that it might wake the team up and produce better results down the road. But, who exactly is OK with it?
The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA
"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."
Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org
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GoCats105
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| RE: Ohio versus the top of the MAC |
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Posted: 10/19/2015 1:28:23 PM |
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| OhioCatFan wrote: | |
| Who's OK with a 35-point loss? I really want those posters singled out. They should be in the Bobcat Hall of Shame. I don't think I've seen anyone who was OK with it. Some are apoplectic about it. Some are using it for their own -- not so hidden -- agenda. Others are saying it means that will not win another game this year. Some are suggesting that it might wake the team up and produce better results down the road. But, who exactly is OK with it? |
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Maybe OK isn't the correct term. Where's my journalism majors at? Is it apathy? Maybe that's it. A "lack of concern" for a 35 point beatdown? Sure, let's go with that.
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L.C.
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| RE: Ohio versus the top of the MAC |
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Posted: 10/19/2015 4:03:36 PM |
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I was one that thought Ohio would win that by 2 TDs. I'm certainly not "OK with it." I'm very disappointed, and most especially I'm disappointed with the lack of a rushing offense, and in particular, the lack of the offensive line's ability to drive others off the ball in run blocking.
It would be more correct to say, at least about me, that I'm not willing to write the entire season off as a result of this one game. There are five more games to be played, and I hope they continue to play hard, and continue to improve, and I continue to hope that in the process some good things happen.
Which was a "fluke"? The first 5 1/2 games? The second half of the last game? I guess we'll find out over the course of the rest of the season.
Last Edited: 10/19/2015 4:04:47 PM by L.C.
“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus
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GoCats105
General User
Member Since: 1/31/2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Post Count: 7,291
Status: Offline
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| RE: Ohio versus the top of the MAC |
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Posted: 10/19/2015 4:21:43 PM |
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| L.C. wrote: | |
I was one that thought Ohio would win that by 2 TDs. I'm certainly not "OK with it." I'm very disappointed, and most especially I'm disappointed with the lack of a rushing offense, and in particular, the lack of the offensive line's ability to drive others off the ball in run blocking.
It would be more correct to say, at least about me, that I'm not willing to write the entire season off as a result of this one game. There are five more games to be played, and I hope they continue to play hard, and continue to improve, and I continue to hope that in the process some good things happen.
Which was a "fluke"? The first 5 1/2 games? The second half of the last game? I guess we'll find out over the course of the rest of the season. |
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I don't necessarily see the season as lost either, L.C. I just think it's an interesting dynamic of this board. I am interested to see how they bounce back, too. It's hard to get up off the mat after getting beat like that. Like after the 2013 Buffalo-BG games. Just don't follow it up with another egg.
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