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Topic: My take on what I saw yesterday

Topic: My take on what I saw yesterday

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L.C.
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My take on what I saw yesterday

Posted: 10/18/2015 12:25:13 PM

I should probably read everything everyone has written before posting my thoughts, but I won't (I'll read them later sometime). I had a lot of things going on yesterday, and was able to see most of the first half, but none of the second half. I do wonder what the heck went on in the second half, but since I didn't see it, I can only guess, so I'll limit my comments to the things I actually did see.

In the first half Ohio's defense was dominant, at least until they lost Poling, Brown, and wells. They were playing a heck of a game. They seemed somewhat stunned after those losses, and they needed to regroup. Maybe they never did.

Even with the offense unable to do anything, Ohio was still in the game until they went for it on fourth down. For that play they used a formation Monroe has been calling for, and one I didn't like at all, one with a lot of beef. For that play they used a power set with 2 running backs and an H-back, plus two tight ends, and gave the ball to Ohio's most powerful back, AJ, but he had nowhere to go. If they were going for it on fourth down, they should have forgotten that power set, and used some wide outs. They needed to force WMU to play honest defense, not let them cram everyone in the box.

I have given my opinion on this before. When Ohio has four wideouts, normally the defense covers them with 5 defenders. If Ohio pulls four more players into the box, the defenders are able to pull five more into the box, and the odds become worse, not better. I like the power formation when the offensive line is able to push the defensive line back, but when they aren't able to, you need to use diversion, not power. Ohio was not able to drive the WMU defense back all day, and they weren't able to on that play, either. For what it's worth, Akron used that same set against Ohio (with everyone in the box), and it didn't work for them, either.

It also seemed to me that Vick wasn't having a very good day in the first half, for whatever reason. He had a few long passes where he just missed, a couple just barely too long, and at least one to short, letting the defender break it up when Cope had a step on him, and could have scored if the ball was on the money. If he made those passes, the game might have had a different tone because they would have forced WMU to back more players out of the box. I'm certainly not trying to blame the loss on Vick, though. He's played great this year.

My final comment was to point out that Ohio did score a TD, not a field goal, on the short clock in the first half. Unlike what some would have you believe, Ohio does play to score at the end of the half. They do try to end up in a position to kick a field goal if they don't get the TD, but that doesn't mean they don't prefer the TD.

As for the second half, the stats from it boggle my mind. It would appear that Ohio wasn't able to regroup at the half, and that all the injuries and missing players took a heavy toll, probably more so psychologically than physically. You'll have a bad game sometimes, I guess, and I hope they got it all out of their system this week. WMU has a good team, and I wish them success. Hopefully they'll beat BG, too, and get Ohio back on even footing with them.

I have two concerns going forward. First, I hope that those injuries from yesterday aren't too serious. Those were some important players, and Ohio will need them. Secondly, I don't think that Ohio have been able to run the ball nearly as effectively as they need to, and they need to find the reason and address it. The average per carry isn't terrible, but it's made up of a lot of no gain plays mixed with a few big ones. It would be much better to have a lot of 4-5 yard runs. I'll take 4,5,4,5,8 over 1,0,2,-1,24 any day, even though they are the same total yards.

At this point they need to regroup and beat Buffalo, which they can do. Buffalo had a bad game this week, too.

Go Bobcats!

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

BobcatSports
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RE: My take on what I saw yesterday

Posted: 10/18/2015 1:03:12 PM

My take LC from being there yesterday as well as what leads to our never ending injuries as well as our less than effective ability to consistently being able to run the ball against above average opponents --- we are too UNDERSIZED. We as a whole it seems to me unit by unit opponent
by opponent we are just "smallish" compared to the competition. I think that's a product of losing the recruiting battles vs poor training or poor coaching etc. no knock on Daz and Papi but those guys are just small. Great if the get that gaping hole block or if they get to the edge BUT to expect them to consistently expect them to pond yds between the tackles when the tackles themselves are usually outweighed by the guy across the line from them is tough.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: My take on what I saw yesterday

Posted: 10/18/2015 1:36:34 PM

On that 4th and 1, were we lined up such that there were two backs evenly set behind the qb in a way that the defense could not be sure who'd get the ball?

Was the qb under center such that any hand-off would not occur about five yards behind the line of scrimmage (so large ground to cover just to get back to scrimmage).

If not, then don't b.s. tie my name to that play.

Add in the brilliant non-use of OUellette up to that play, then bring him in on that such that everyone (uh, includes WMU) knew he'd get the ball.

Now, for once, say, "That was horrible coaching. And very typical and predictable as we've seen from this staff for years."

Way to hang the injury card! As someone else posted, I guess after the first liners, it's okay if we fall apart because we can't depend on the backups

Would you get a clue. Go back and watch the part of yesterday's game that you missed...and every game over the last 35 that we've played against a team that was not mediocre. Yesterday borders on the typical. Certainly not an anomaly.

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!

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L.C.
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RE: My take on what I saw yesterday

Posted: 10/18/2015 2:13:07 PM

That was not the first time AJ had been in.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Bcat2
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RE: My take on what I saw yesterday

Posted: 10/18/2015 2:43:27 PM

BobcatSports wrote:

There are several rosters out that show size data. The one linked below from the game notes has been updated to reflect current information. Some schools might play bigger LBs, but, Ohio has representative size everywhere else. Please open the link and scroll down to the roster at page 11. Disregard info on the depth chart as it still reflects info from most players freshman seasons.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/ohio/sports/m-footbl/...

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

Bcat2
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RE: My take on what I saw yesterday

Posted: 10/18/2015 3:08:40 PM

L.C. wrote:

That was not the first time AJ had been in.

This season the left side of the OL is Powell, Lucas & McQueen, all seniors. Add Heitzman and it is a group that should punch out a yard. Call the play, tell the defense it is coming and they should still get one yard. I formations are set up to give the back the ball deep enough for the back to read the blocking with room for a cut. Earlier in the year, in short yardage, McQueen would shift to guard, Lowery would be at LT, Heitzman at TE or HB and Ouellette was successful enough for them to have confidence in the play. Perhaps Ouellette felt the push would eventually come and stayed with the called hole when he might have been better to have looked for a backside cut. I do not fault the coaches or Ouellette for trusting Powell, Lucas, McQueen & Heitzman to get one yard. When a south paw has one punch to knock someone out, guess which hand is coming?

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

Mike Johnson
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RE: My take on what I saw yesterday

Posted: 10/18/2015 3:51:43 PM

Bcat2 wrote:

L.C. wrote:

That was not the first time AJ had been in.

Hmmm...When a D knows what's coming and prepares to go low and shoot the gaps, the BEST O-line is likely to have difficulty clearing the way for a 1-yard gain. That's even more true if the D has gotten acclimated to the QB's snap counts.

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Bcat2
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RE: My take on what I saw yesterday

Posted: 10/18/2015 4:00:57 PM

Mike Johnson wrote:

Bcat2 wrote:

L.C. wrote:

That was not the first time AJ had been in.

If they call anything else and do not make it the naysayers will be upset for not running behind these seniors. Any call is good when successful, bad when not.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

jack steffes

RE: My take on what I saw yesterday

Posted: 10/18/2015 5:53:37 PM

This Message was Deleted at 10/18/2015 10:53:15 PM

BuddyLee
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RE: My take on what I saw yesterday (NT)

Posted: 10/18/2015 6:35:01 PM

Last Edited: 10/19/2015 7:24:43 AM by BuddyLee

Bcat2
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RE: My take on what I saw yesterday

Posted: 10/18/2015 7:20:24 PM

BuddyLee wrote:

Previous post is right on the money. We are undersized and lack the speed of our peers. We have talked about this for years and it's a product of recruiting 1 & 2 star athletes and a poor strength/conditioning program.

Last Edited: 10/18/2015 7:21:39 PM by Bcat2

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

Parkersburgwvcat
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RE: My take on what I saw yesterday

Posted: 10/18/2015 10:12:30 PM

Man, it's impossible to argue with much that L.C., Monroe, or any of you other astute Bobcat fans have stated. Speaking of undersized, It wasr rather incomprehensible that their QUARTERBCK could run over us with physicality. Elusiveness I could understand.
We can still regroup and accomplish great thing this year. Yesterday , however, was a bad loss and we need to learn from it. If we don't bounce back next Saturday, then we will know that we have major problems.
Let's hope that the game yesterday proves to be a wake up call that we are not as good as some would have thought. Let's get better. There is much room in which ti do so.

The Optimist
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RE: My take on what I saw yesterday

Posted: 10/18/2015 11:35:47 PM

L.C. wrote:

I should probably read everything everyone has written before posting my thoughts

I'm going to keep reading your post, but first I'm going to tell you not to bother reading the other threads on the game. Most of it is pointless drivel.

I've seen crazier things happen.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: My take on what I saw yesterday

Posted: 10/19/2015 12:23:53 AM

Bcat2 wrote:

Mike Johnson wrote:

Bcat2 wrote:

L.C. wrote:

That was not the first time AJ had been in.

If they call anything else and do not make it the naysayers will be upset for not running behind these seniors. Any call is good when successful, bad when not.

Optimist--that's really fair and smart to ignore the honest appraisal of the poor performance yesterday, especially the placing of such in a too long body of mediocrity. Optimism is good. Unreasonable obstinacy and unwillingness to acknowl reality is not.

L.C.--Had AJ run the ball before that 4th and 1? If not, it is essentially intellectual dishonesty for you to say that AJ had been in the game before that play since the point made was that he was cold, hadn't run it yet.

Bcat2--If the whole left side and Heitzman are seniors, how'd WMU, not a good team by defensive reputation, shut us down? And aren't we looking at a lesser, rebuilding offense next year (espec since Vick is a senior) so more mediocrity again next year?

And, that argument that people would object to any call on that 4th and 1 if we didn't make it is a horsecrap way of dismissing any possible objection to your revered deity Solich.

We have some talent. We do some things well. But the sad record is that we've so often over the last few years gotten creamed by the teams in the top half of the MAC. And many of those teams have not been that good, given that the MAC is not a very good conference.

It is not unreasonable to object to this getting creamed.

OhioCatFan
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RE: My take on what I saw yesterday

Posted: 10/19/2015 12:45:53 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

. . . . And, that argument that people would object to any call on that 4th and 1 if we didn't make it is a horsecrap way of dismissing any possible objection to your revered deity Solich. . . .

Speaking of intellectual dishonesty: You've been calling for Frank to be less conservative in his play calling. He takes a big gamble on 4th and short just over the 50 and goes for it. If he succeeds, I'm sure it would be no more than a footnote in your analysis of the game. It fails, and you claim it was because he ran the wrong play. Why don't you man up and just say, I'm glad he was less conservative in that play call and took a gamble on 4th and short. That's the kind of ball I like. We need more of that mind-set and down the road I'm sure we'll be successful more often than not if we gamble a little more in our play calling. You basically want the right to bitch either way. It's very clear that you don't like Frank and you want him out of here. Problem is, you are not going to get your way no matter how much you scream and moan. It would be much more constructive and useful if you'd look for ways to try and improve the program rather than tearing it down with nearly every breath you take. There is such a thing as constructive criticism and then there's just plain mean-spirited bitching. You, my friend, have become a master of the latter.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

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Monroe Slavin
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RE: My take on what I saw yesterday

Posted: 10/19/2015 1:33:17 AM

Bull. I elswhere posted that I liked going for it.

BUt bringing in AJ--it was so obvious we'd go to him.

No one--no one--puts up more specifics in his objections (here that we ran out of a one back, pistol set instead of under center) and more specifics about stuff which we should be doing differently. I've put up scores and scores of posts of specifics.

And you know that.

OhioCatFan
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RE: My take on what I saw yesterday

Posted: 10/19/2015 9:58:22 AM

Actually, you don't have many specifics, and when you do they are usually based on your biases and not an actual understanding of the game and the specific situation. We've run AJ in situations like that before, where the defense is keyed on him and he gets his yard or two. If it had succeeded you would have said it was good but would have found something else to bitch about. Heck, if we had won you'd be bitching about something. And, when it comes to specifics you don't hold a candle to L.C., The Situation. bcat2, or a host of others, even some if your fellow bitch merchants. You, my man, are basically a polemicist.

colobobcat66
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RE: My take on what I saw yesterday

Posted: 10/19/2015 12:54:20 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

And what exactly is the reason that you post this stuff here? Tell it to the coaches directly. Are you trying to show how smart about football that you are? Again, the same old drivel in such a repetitive way does not seem a way to cause change. Just my opinion. And don't give me the old apologist stuff about people that aren't ready to fire Frank. It's old man.

Last Edited: 10/19/2015 2:26:34 PM by colobobcat66

L.C.
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RE: My take on what I saw yesterday

Posted: 10/19/2015 3:48:23 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

.. L.C.--Had AJ run the ball before that 4th and 1? If not, it is essentially intellectual dishonesty for you to say that AJ had been in the game before that play since the point made was that he was cold, hadn't run it yet....

Oh, I don't disagree that there is some blatant intellectual dishonesty going on here, but it isn't coming from me, it's coming from you. You see, your "proof" actually proves the exact oppositite of what you intended. How, may I ask, does bringing AJ in several times and NOT giving him the ball prove that on this specific play when they bring him in, they WILL give him the ball? It doesn't. Now, if every time prior to that, when they brought AJ in, they had given him the ball, you'd have a point, but since they didn't, you don't.

If you want to be a Monday morning QB, that's your right. If you want to be conscending, that's your perogitive. If those are your choices, at least be intellectually honest in the process.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

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