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Topic: 10 + 2

Topic: 10 + 2

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Mike Johnson
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10 + 2

Posted: 9/17/2015 9:59:09 PM

10 seasons plus 2 weeks. That's how long Coach Solich has led Ohio. Three division titles. Good but, yes, I wish there would have been more. No conference title and, yes, I wish there had been one or more. 6 bowl games. Heck yes, I'd like more of those too. Have I ever felt frustrated by Frank's admittedly conservative approach? That was a rhetorical question. But fellow BA'ers, what I really like is knowing that in virtually every game Ohio has a legitimate chance to win. By contrast, during the Dark Ages (Cleve-Lichty), I often could see during the coin toss that Ohio had no chance; our captains looked like undersized kids to the opponents' men.

I was just looking at this year's Phil Steele's. Here is how MAC schools have faired - wins and losses - during the 10 "Solich seasons" plus the first two weeks of this season:

70-55 Toledo
88-47 NIU
60-65 WMU
65-61 Ball State
71-59 CMU
27-94 EMU
65-63 BG
37-86 Akron
74-56 Ohio
58-63 Mass
47-75 Kent
44-79 Buffalo
39-85 Miami

64-63 Our friends in Huntington

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sargentfan
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RE: 10 + 2

Posted: 9/17/2015 10:25:19 PM

Interesting, not surprised that NIU has the best record, pleasantly surprised that we have the 2nd best. Which does boggle the mind that we haven't gotten a MACC title yet, then again we really should have won the year we controlled the entire 1st half.

bobcat695
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RE: 10 + 2

Posted: 9/17/2015 10:47:38 PM

NIU is way more impressive than OU over that stretch. They have played a better non-conference schedule over those 10 years, as well as playing in the tougher MAC division. Ohio gets to play Akron, Kent, Buffalo and Miami every single year. I appreciate not being the same program as my student years in the early 90's, but not winning at least one MAC title is really disappointing. In 10 years the average annual record is 7-5 against some of the worst football teams in the nation.

"You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15

Bcat2
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RE: 10 + 2

Posted: 9/17/2015 11:10:12 PM

bobcat695 wrote:

Solich (10 yrs) vs the seven previous coaches (32 yrs).

1973-2004 2005-14
Seasons 32 10
Coaches 7 1
Wins Per Year 3.7 7.2
Record 119-228 72-56
Bowl Appearances 0 6
Bowl Wins 0 2

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

Monroe Slavin
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RE: 10 + 2

Posted: 9/17/2015 11:41:52 PM

bobcat695 wrote:

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!

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Bcat2
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RE: 10 + 2

Posted: 9/18/2015 8:07:45 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

bobcat695 wrote:

Mike Johnson

Here is how MAC schools have faired - wins and losses - during the 10 "Solich seasons" plus the first two weeks of this season:

70-55 Toledo
88-47 NIU
60-65 WMU
65-61 Ball State
71-59 CMU
27-94 EMU
65-63 BG
37-86 Akron
74-56 Ohio
58-63 Mass
47-75 Kent
44-79 Buffalo
39-85 Miami

64-63 Our friends in Huntington

Media Guide

Solich (10 yrs) vs the seven previous coaches (32 yrs).

1973-2004 2005-14
Seasons 32 10
Coaches 7 1
Wins Per Year 3.7 7.2
Record 119-228 72-56
Bowl Appearances 0 6
Bowl Wins 0 2

Last Edited: 9/18/2015 8:13:34 AM by Bcat2

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

bobcat695
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RE: 10 + 2

Posted: 9/18/2015 8:57:56 AM

What are you debating? Jim Grobe was solid and every other coach had pathetic results. Those results are pretty clear.

I'm amazed at the sector of the fanbase that lambastes those of us that prefer not to wildly cheer for mediocre, long-term results.

"You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15

GoCats105
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RE: 10 + 2

Posted: 9/18/2015 9:02:12 AM

Unfortunately college football is in a state of "what have you done for me lately?" It's an unfortunate byproduct of the facilities arms race and "win now" mentality. Ohio has really broken through that mold by keeping the stability it has right now. It's even more impressive that they've done it in the MAC, which has a relatively high coaching turnover due to coaches either being let go or hired on to bigger jobs.

Has it been a great 10 years? Absolutely. Phil Steele's numbers for the past three years and five years tell a little bit of a different story if I recall when looking at it earlier this preseason, which was kind of surprising to me. I think Ohio was somewhere towards the middle, and both Toledo and BG had passed them by. Maybe even Ball State or CMU. I don't have the magazine in front of me. Still better than where Ohio was back in the dark ages though for sure.

Anyway, it's kind of hard not to be impressed with where Ohio is on THIS list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_NCAA_Divisi...

Sort by the First Season and it paints a nice picture. I'm still relatively shocked that Pinkel has last that long at Missouri. He still hasn't won a conference title there either, but has five division titles in both the Big 12 and SEC, plus a 6-4 record in bowl games.

GoCats105
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RE: 10 + 2

Posted: 9/18/2015 9:05:44 AM

bobcat695 wrote:

OUcats82
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RE: 10 + 2

Posted: 9/18/2015 9:11:03 AM

I think that most of us agree that Solich has brought this program from poor to solid and competitive. For that I am very grateful. That being said, I don't think the program should have ever been as putrid as it was and I deeply believe that if you are not playing for championships then why bother? Not saying the program does not have that attitude, but the bottom line is a championship once every 5-10 years should be realistic and it has not happened. Akron, BG, Buffalo, Miami, all have won at least one title in Frank's tenure. There is enough parity there to show that it's not an impossible feat. I think if we can break down that wall that we could very well win more in a short period of time.

Get it done!

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L.C.
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RE: 10 + 2

Posted: 9/18/2015 9:59:36 AM

bobcat695 wrote:

It makes one wonder what will happen after Solich is gone. One way or the other he will most likely be gone within 5 years at the most. Will the next coach be able to continue to build on the progress that has been made? Or, will Ohio experience the far more common regression to the mean?

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

GoCats105
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RE: 10 + 2

Posted: 9/18/2015 10:32:23 AM

L.C. wrote:

bobcat695 wrote:

I'm interested to see where the Administration wants to go. I'm thinking that Solich is going to want to have a say in who is successor is. In other words, he probably will want to promote from within the program. If Schaus and McDavis are still around at the time of Frank's departure, I'm wondering what they think.

Bcat2
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RE: 10 + 2

Posted: 9/18/2015 11:03:02 AM

bobcat695 wrote:

Grobe's 33-33 is "solid." Solich's 74-56 is "mediocre." There are those who focus on one drive from a victory over Marshall and decide to call out "someone needs to be fired." There are those of us who disagree with your assessment of Solich's results. I'm amazed at the sector that calls for firing coaches right after beating Marshall.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

GoCats105
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RE: 10 + 2

Posted: 9/18/2015 11:22:26 AM

Bcat2 wrote:

bobcat695 wrote:

Nevermind

Last Edited: 9/18/2015 11:24:10 AM by GoCats105

OhioCatFan
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RE: 10 + 2

Posted: 9/18/2015 11:31:17 AM

Bcat2 wrote:

. . . I'm amazed at the sector that calls for firing coaches right after beating Marshall.

Though this has been said more by implication than direct statement, I get that same drift in some of the comments, too. And, like you, I sit here utterly amazed by it. Yes, Saturday's win over Marshall was one of the ugliest games I've ever witnessed in my many years of being a college football fan, but the end results was a win. Frank has a good record against Marshall -- undefeated in Athens -- so this win was no fluke. I'll bet anyone on this board that Marshall will be a bowl team this year and will be a contender for the C-USA championship. I'm mighty proud that we beat them -- as ugly as it was.

Now, I'll also be very proud if we beat Minnesota in an even uglier game. I'd prefer, though, to win pretty! ;-)

Last Edited: 9/18/2015 11:32:23 AM by OhioCatFan

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The Optimist
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RE: 10 + 2

Posted: 9/18/2015 11:32:36 AM

I'm amazed at the sector of the fanbase that sat around while very little of significance was accomplished in the 30+ years preceding Frank.

I've seen crazier things happen.

OhioCatFan
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RE: 10 + 2

Posted: 9/18/2015 11:33:28 AM

The Optimist wrote:

I'm amazed at the sector of the fanbase that sat around while very little of significance was accomplished in the 30+ years preceding Frank.

+1

I plead guilty!

Alan Swank
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RE: 10 + 2

Posted: 9/18/2015 11:43:05 AM

Until we win a MAC championship, the lack of one in 47 years will continue to be a source of irritation for some/many. There's not a college coach or player in America that plays for less than a championship. Is lacking one a failure - absolutely not. However, when you consider the millions spent in the last 10 years versus the previous 20, the expectations are a tad bit higher. Here's hoping this is the last fall that a thread like this exists.

bobcat695
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RE: 10 + 2

Posted: 9/18/2015 12:50:09 PM

Bcat2 wrote:

bobcat695 wrote:

Jim Grobe came in after 20+ years of one of, if not the absolute worst, football programs in the nation. His 33-33 record was solid based on what he started with. Solich came in after a 5-year departure from the temporary momentum that had been built by Grobe. The cupboard was relatively bare, but there had also been positive strides within the prior decade by a coach that was hired away to a bigger program.

74-56 is an average of 7-5 each year. Barely above 50% winning percentage is mediocre by definition. I'm not disgusted by the results. I'd like to see Ohio get over the hump. I've still shown up to every single game in the past 25 seasons. I cheer loud during the games. It just drives me nuts that our fans, as a whole, take such a passive stance towards expecting to be better than the other terrible programs in the MAC. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, though. Look at the thousands who sit quietly during each defensive 3rd down.

"You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15

Jeff McKinney
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RE: 10 + 2

Posted: 9/18/2015 1:21:27 PM

LC: Isn't regression to the mean predicated on largely similar factors of production, or resources? I think Ohio has moved forward in a way that isn't going to change dramatically once Coach Solich retires. I can't see us going back to an undesireable destination for recruits, maybe a hundred people tailgating, and crowds normally under 10,000.

Of course, there is a danger of regressing if we make a bad hire. Or if we get a new university president who doesn't see much value in athletics.

OU_Country
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RE: 10 + 2

Posted: 9/18/2015 1:25:00 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

I'm completely in agreement here. When you've seen how bad the past has been, to call the current program is a little unfair. The only thing I think they've been mediocre at is being able to find "the guy" at QB. The rest of the Solich era has been better than mediocre in my mind.

Pataskala
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RE: 10 + 2

Posted: 9/18/2015 1:30:07 PM

Mike Johnson wrote:

our captains looked like undersized kids to the opponents' men.

One thing I noticed through the years is how the size disparity between "mid-major" teams and "power" teams has decreased. It used to be that "mid-major" players were dwarfed by "power" players. (Hell, even the "power" cheerleaders looked more mature than "mid-major" cheerleaders.) But when we go to Minn next week, our team sizes up well with them. Their O line roster ranges from 6-2 to 6-9 in height and 283-328 in weight. Ours ranges from 6-2 to 6-7 and 250-320. Their D line is 6-2 to 6-6 and 230-291; ours is 6-0 to 6-5 and 221-304 (the lightest guy on each team is a freshman). I think that getting closer to parity in size is one reason why the number of cupcake games when "P"5 teams play "G"5s has declined.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

L.C.
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RE: 10 + 2

Posted: 9/18/2015 1:49:28 PM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

Certainly the facilities upgrades such as the IPF and the Academic center will change the dynamics from the past. The same can be said for the fan-building efforts, which has spread Bobcat fandom to the north and west, and the closer ties to high school programs across the state.

That's why I've said that the contributions Solich have made go far beyond "coaching", and constitute "program building". To merely focus on what has (or hasn't been) achieved on the field significantly understates the contributions that Solich has made to Ohio long term.

Most MAC coaches come in with the plan to come in and coach for a few years, hopefully do well, and then move up and out. Maybe that was what Solich has in mind when he arrived, I don't know, but what he has actually done, from day one, is to constantly try to build the fan base, facilities, and ties to Ohio high school programs across the state, which is something only someone with a long term perspective would do. If you're only planning on being at a place 3-4 years, why worry about an IPF, which would take 5 years of lobbying to get started, a couple more years to raise money, and then another 1-2 years to build?

Because of where Ohio is, I agree, Jeff, I don't think that there is any chance that Ohio will regress to the extent that they were in the 90s. Yet, look at Ohio's history, and you see that after Peden came Widdoes who was pretty good, but not quite as good as Peden. Similarly, after Hess came Burke, who was pretty good, but not quite as good as Hess. (I know I skipped Wise and Kappes who were both very short term). That's more what I was picturing when I talked about regression to the mean, a coach who was close, but not quite as good. Another similar example from another school would be at CMU, where it took a few coaches for them to regress, but they regressed from the top of the MAC to the middle of the MAC West.

In any case, my point is, Ohio could continue to move up, but they could also go the other way. A move in either direction is certainly not a given, and it will be interesting to see how it develops.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Mike Johnson
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RE: 10 + 2 AND your thrill-o-meter

Posted: 9/18/2015 1:49:38 PM

In my post that led off this discussion, I said what I like about the Solich era is going to a game believing that Ohio has a legitimate chance to win. During his era there have been outcomes that have deflated me much as a pricked birthday balloon. Examples: Wyoming was set to run a 4th down play as time was expiring; the play was an incomplete pass and, voila!, victory was in hand. But wait. Frank had called a timeout. Wyoming got a mulligan - and a win. That was an instantaneous deflation. A much slower and more painful deflation was watching Ohio lose a 20-0 halftime lead against that Dekalb bunch.

But the following during the Solich era rank high on my personal thrill-o-meter:
* Topping Pitt in OT. Even my wife was high-fiving everyone in sight.
* Topping Illinois as the clock neared 00:00. Love the AP photo of holder hugging kicker.
* After a thunderstorm delay at Kent, watching the Cats clinch a division title.
* Coming from 9 pts down to top BG with a FG as time expired.
* Falling behind and looking over-matched against Utah State and then watching a fearless bunch of Bobcats come roaring back for Ohio's first bowl win.
* Logging onto a computer in France and seeing a headline: Bobcats Top Lions.
* All wins over Miami and Marshall. Edit: Temple too.

I'm certain that another division title clinching game or a MACC would send my pulse rate soaring. Meanwhile I'll continue enjoying adding outcomes to my personal thrill-o-meter.

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.
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RE: 10 + 2 AND your thrill-o-meter

Posted: 9/18/2015 2:04:55 PM

How has no one gotten this yet? The answer is 12.

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