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Topic: Western Michigan Recruiting 2016

Topic: Western Michigan Recruiting 2016

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Bcat2
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Western Michigan Recruiting 2016

Posted: 3/5/2015 8:01:36 AM

Well, checking the Rivals recruiting site I find that for 2016 Ohio, Ball State, Central Michigan, Northern Illinois, Bowling Green, Marshall and Toledo all together are showing one committed recruit. Western Michigan is already showing eight. Damn.

USC & Texas together have seven. Alabama has four, OSU and FSU do show seven and ten respectively. What is it that Ohio, Ball State, Central Michigan, Northern Illinois, Bowling Green, Marshall and Toledo are not doing?

https://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recr...

Fleck's bio reflects three seasons as recruiting coordinator at Northern Illinois, 07-09. We all remember well; Jordan Lynch, Martell Moore (Atlanta Falcons), Perez Ashford (New England Patriots, Cleveland Browns and Seattle Seahawks), and Cameron Stingily. This guy recruits like no one else. Yikes.

http://www.wmubroncos.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4600...

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

The Optimist
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RE: Western Michigan Recruiting 2016

Posted: 3/5/2015 8:15:28 AM

Fleck took A TON of heat for his "style" but even in that opening season when he was flashy but losing it was clear his ways appealed to recruits...

I think WMU is going to be good this year and I think someone will come calling to take him big-time. With the recruits he is gathering, I have no doubt he could accelerate the winning if he chose to remain at WMU.

I've seen crazier things happen.

L.C.
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RE: Western Michigan Recruiting 2016

Posted: 3/5/2015 8:39:25 AM

I'm surprised no one took him last year, honestly. It's very clear that he's an outstanding recruiter. I guess they are waiting for him to prove he can coach, too? Either that, or he's being very picky about what job he takes at the P5 level, and wanting to make sure he gets one where he is sure to succeed.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

catfan28
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RE: Western Michigan Recruiting 2016

Posted: 3/5/2015 9:12:31 AM

Perhaps the better question: why is he so good?

What is he doing that other coaches haven't figured out? Is it just that 17-18 year-olds love catch phrases and coaches who tweet??

It's pretty remarkable that WMU has gone from an also-ran in the MAC to a recruiting powerhouse over 2 seasons.

Ohio69
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RE: Western Michigan Recruiting 2016

Posted: 3/5/2015 9:35:34 AM

catfan28 wrote:

He certainly is quirky. He's young. He's fun. He's excitable and thus exciting. And, it appears he and his staff can coach. More there than just tweets and catch phrases. WMU is getting rewarded for being brave enough to hire a quirky guy. Will his personality become endearing or grating? Time will tell. In the right place, it will become endearing.

They play Michigan State and Ohio State next year. Hope they do well.

Last Edited: 3/5/2015 9:37:23 AM by Ohio69

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

Pataskala
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RE: Western Michigan Recruiting 2016

Posted: 3/5/2015 12:41:48 PM

If he sustains last year's success in 2015, he'll be on the radar to fill vacancies. They open at home against Sparty and a win there would get people to take notice. The best they can hope for vs O$U is a close game; a 14-12 lead going into the 4th quarter would be great (we had O$U fans talking about that for a couple years, at least until we got throttled by the tattoo-gaters).

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

TWT
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RE: Western Michigan Recruiting 2016

Posted: 3/5/2015 7:07:59 PM

Fleck regime at WMU has validated everything I've said a MAC school could be. A MAC school can go out on the national scene and sign a Top 50 recruiting class. They can pay the HC a MWC sized 800,000 salary. Some of the posters on here think that ohio should be trying to lure the recruiting coordinator or Army for 80k. Pay him like Grobe and he will perform like Grobe! It sounds very exciting.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

colobobcat66
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RE: Western Michigan Recruiting 2016

Posted: 3/5/2015 11:42:34 PM

Uncle Wes wrote:

Yeah, WMU had 2 Florida recruits in 2015, not exactly your idea about pushing Florida by the. Next Ohio coach

OhioCatFan
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RE: Western Michigan Recruiting 2016

Posted: 3/6/2015 12:08:22 AM

What in the world is going on here? We are now measuring our success by WMU standards? Whatever success is achieved by rowing your boat up there will be a flash in the pan. We are trying to build a football PROGRAM at OHIO, not a short-term cult of personality. Fleck strikes me as something like a smooth talking snake oil salesman out of some grade B movie depicting the Wild West. Anyone want to bet on the outcome of this fall's WMU game here in historic Peden Stadium, otherwise known as the Wrigley Field of College Football?

Last Edited: 3/6/2015 12:09:03 AM by OhioCatFan

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

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colobobcat66
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RE: Western Michigan Recruiting 2016

Posted: 3/6/2015 12:57:21 AM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Like much on this board, it's something to talk about that affects us (since we play these guys) and they're in our conference. It's interesting for us to speculate about what it means and why is it happening. We seldom, if ever, really resolve anything.

I'm for sure not going to bet on us winning this game.

Last Edited: 3/6/2015 1:02:48 AM by colobobcat66

The Optimist
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RE: Western Michigan Recruiting 2016

Posted: 3/6/2015 6:54:05 AM

As I mentioned to Alan when he was discussing the chance we have 4 sellouts, I think WMU this year is going to be a very big game and a very tough one to win.

I've seen crazier things happen.

Bcat2
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RE: Western Michigan Recruiting 2016

Posted: 3/6/2015 9:09:50 AM

colobobcat66 wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Well said colorado66. I am curious about Fleck's recruiting. From his time at NIU to now he seems to be a closer. No doubt he relates well to the young men. Credit to him. Obviously he is doing something NIU, Toledo, BGU, BSU, Marshall & Ohio all are not. Hopefully they are done tearing up locker rooms. I like the athletes/young men Ohio recruits. They have chosen to be Bobcats and I would not trade any for anyone on another roster. Take RB for example. CMU brought in Rawls, WMU brought in Franklin and Ohio brings in A.J. & Irons. Franklin had a Beau B like season, Rawls gets himself arrested and A.J. has a fine freshman season. Irons might be the best of the lot. We shall see. I am comfortable with A. J. and Irons though. I just like the young men Ohio recruits. Crutch for example. Did not redshirt, so hey, might as well graduate in three an a half.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

Casper71
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RE: Western Michigan Recruiting 2016

Posted: 3/6/2015 12:40:56 PM

This is where I guess I get to say my expectations were that by year 10, OUr staff wOUld be recruiting exactly the way Fleck is. Veteran staff, stable, winning games. Yet somehow, WMU is pretty far ahead of everyone in the MAC when it comes to recruiting the last couple of years. Now the question is can they win really big? I know one thing, OUr staff would win big with those kinds of recruiting classes.

Bcat2
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RE: Western Michigan Recruiting 2016

Posted: 3/6/2015 1:05:41 PM

Casper71 wrote:

I have been careful not express envy of what Fleck is doing. I am not sure recruiting exactly the way Fleck is would have brought Crutch or Travis Carrie or Tremayne Scott or .... to Ohio. I would just like to better understand what he is selling.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

OhioCatFan
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RE: Western Michigan Recruiting 2016

Posted: 3/6/2015 1:12:03 PM

bcat2 . . . he's selling snakeoil. He'll be leaving Dodge soon, and the remedy will prove to be transitory. Others disagree strongly, and would prefer to have a string of three-year coaches who sell their snake oil and then move on to new more lucrative fields of endeavor. I, for one, prefer the model that we have developed at OHIO. I suspect that when Frank is ready to hang it up that he'll groom an assistant as his replacement and we'll have a smooth transition. This next HC may very well be someone who has been here long enough to put down roots and will, like Frank, make it a career and not a stepping stone to the P5. That's my hope, at least. We'll see what actually happens.

Last Edited: 3/6/2015 9:40:15 PM by OhioCatFan

perimeterpost
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RE: Western Michigan Recruiting 2016

Posted: 3/6/2015 4:41:41 PM

Remember when NIU hired Fleck to be their offensive coordinator and he quit 24hrs after accepting the position, and then accepted a position at Tampa Bay 2 days later? And NIU is his Alma Mater. When he leaves WMU its going to be ugly and they're going to be stuck with a Horse mascot and tens of thousands of dollars worth of various references to row boats that the new coach will want nothing to do with.

MY STATE. MY TEAM.

L.C.
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RE: Western Michigan Recruiting 2016

Posted: 3/6/2015 4:50:51 PM

It is a truism not only in coaching, but in all jobs, that there are some people that are just very good salespeople, and there are others that are good at the underlying skill, in this case coaching. It's a rare person that is good at both, and those tend to rise quickly.

If you can't have both, and most of the time you can't, which is better? A guy that is a good coach with a little sales ability, or a guy that can sell with a little coaching ability? For most jobs I think there is a consensus that the former is by far the better choice. The good coach can hire a recruiting coordinator that can sell, and then slowly build his program and reputation from a solid foundation, and then in time the quality of the recruits rises because players want to go there, not because they are sold to go there.

The good salesman can, of course, surround himself with good coaches, and that can work, too, but more often than not, those types seem to crash and burn. We were all wondering a year ago if Fleck would do exactly that - crash and burn. Had he had a second season like his first, he likely would have been gone, despite the good recruiting. At this point, though, it appears he can coach some, too, so he's virtually certain to be hired at the end of this year with another good season.

OhioCatFan wrote:

... He'll be leaving Dodge soon, and the remedy will prove to be transitory. Others disagree strongly, and would prefer to have a string of three-year coaches ... I, for one, prefer the model that we have developed at OHIO. ...

As you say, the one of the big disadvantages of the salesman approach is that they come, and they either crash and burn, or they leave. There's no reason for them to worry about building things like IPFs or Academic Centers because, by the time they are built, the coach will be gone anyway. Another thing I think we can all agree on is that, regardless of what people think about Frank as a coach, he has done a tremendous amount in the way of building a program, and a football culture at Ohio. If you go back to his 2005 comments, his comments indicated that he intended to try to actually build a program at Ohio, and he thought it could be done, I think he has done exactly that.

Whether you look at facilities, or you look at things like fan support, and student support, or you look at national attention to the Ohio program, it's all gotten better at Ohio under Solich. I actually think that's one of the reason for many of the attacks he gets. People that want to see football dropped completely despise the fact that he is building a program, or they are upset that he takes focus off of basketball, where the would rather see the focus.

In any case, Ohio is making progress year after year, and the results are tangible and indisputable. The facilities has improved, recruiting has improved, and fan support has improved. I suspect that alumni giving has grown, too, but I don't have any numbers on that, so it's just a guess. Ohio is clearly poised to do well in the years ahead.

Last Edited: 3/6/2015 4:55:01 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Cats-22
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RE: Western Michigan Recruiting 2016

Posted: 3/6/2015 5:52:44 PM

The talk about sales vs. skill in coaching got me to thinking.

How to be a successful AD:

1. Become AD at school where current HC is a great salesman but a bad coach
2. Replace that HC with a great coach who is a bad salesman
3. Take credit for success
4. Leave within three years and repeat at another school

Remember step #4, it's the most important one.

TWT
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RE: Western Michigan Recruiting 2016

Posted: 3/6/2015 8:38:59 PM

Bcat2 wrote:

I like the athletes/young men Ohio recruits. They have chosen to be Bobcats and I would not trade any for anyone on another roster. Take RB for example. CMU brought in Rawls, WMU brought in Franklin and Ohio brings in A.J. & Irons. Franklin had a Beau B like season, Rawls gets himself arrested and A.J. has a fine freshman season. Irons might be the best of the lot. We shall see. I am comfortable with A. J. and Irons though. I just like the young men Ohio recruits. Crutch for example. Did not redshirt, so hey, might as well graduate in three an a half.

I agree 100%

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

TWT
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RE: Western Michigan Recruiting 2016

Posted: 3/6/2015 8:49:57 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

bcat2 . . . he's selling snakeoil. He'll be leaving Dodge soon, and the remedy will prove to be transitory. Others disagree strongly, and would prefer to have a string of three-year coaches who sell their snake oil and then move on to new more lucrative fields of endeavor. If, for one, prefer the model that we have developed at OHIO. I suspect that when Frank is ready to hang it up that he'll groom an assistant as his replacement and we'll have a smooth transition. This next HC may very well be someone who has been here long enough to put down roots and will, like Frank, make it a career and not a stepping stone to the P5. That's my hope, at least. We'll see what actually happens.

The Grobe and Solich hires were excellent hires from where the program was at the time. Grobe when he came to Athens had no facilities to work with. The weight room was a closet in the Convo and the team was not permitted to use the tower except the coaching booth on game days. He ran the option and was able to win games using lightly recruited players. That brought serious fan interest to the program for the first time and led to the weight room getting built and the stadium expanded. Solich walked into a situation where the facilities were average for the MAC and he quickly improved them with team meeting rooms and spruced up the tower. He built a program with more talented players running conventional offenses. With the IPF now built the facilities are the best overall in the MAC. Frank as far as I'm concerned can stay here as long as he likes but when he goes I think we should get a coach in here that can take us up another level nationally (scheduling and recruiting). I don't necessarily want a snake oil salesman type guy but I'm OK if he leaves after 3 years with a 1.5 million buyout going to the university. IT will take a very good football coach to jet after 3 years from Athens.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

L.C.
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RE: Western Michigan Recruiting 2016

Posted: 3/6/2015 10:20:51 PM

Just because Fleck, or some other coach, is a salesman, it doesn't automatically make them snake oil salesmen. To me, saying that someone is a "snake oil salesman" implies they are selling something that isn't quite true, or isn't quite ethical. Fleck has an ebullient personality, and he is very young, and seems to be able to connect with some of these kids, and that alone might account for his recruiting success. There is nothing wrong with that. On the other hand, if he's saying "Oh, I'm here at WMU for life", that would be snake oil, as it's likely not true.

By the way, it's worth pointing out that Ohio/Solich has had reasonable success recruiting against Fleck. In cases where both schools have offered, and the player chose one or the other (as opposed to choosing some other school), Ohio has won more than half the time. Ohio has been recruiting very well the last three years, too.

Last Edited: 3/6/2015 10:21:16 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

MonroeClassmate
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RE: Western Michigan Recruiting 2016

Posted: 3/7/2015 7:41:00 AM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Was BGSU ticked when Urban Meyer took them to the top 20 and left after 2 years? Or Utah going 12-0 and maxing out at 4th in the nation, then conducting a new seach? For that matter would you trade John Groce aided sweet sixteen for a coach who would still be at the helm and couldn't get out of Cleveland because DJ and Walt never showed up in Athens for lack of getting oiled up?

An earlier post someone said, find out what/how he is selling his value proposition to his recruits--perhaps something can be picked up that can be emulated at other schools. The great salesman know what their client wants and ask questions so that the client self discovers that what he wants the salesman has and the client buys instead of being sold. The other attributes the greats have is they remain enthused constantly and they often do the work that others could do but are not willing to do!

Last Edited: 3/7/2015 7:53:24 AM by MonroeClassmate

L.C.
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RE: Western Michigan Recruiting 2016

Posted: 3/7/2015 8:17:44 AM

MonroeClassmate wrote:

It works that way sometimes, and other times schools with a new coach every four years may find themselves wandering in the wilderness for a prolonged period (such as Ohio in the 80's and early 90's, Miami in the last 8 years or so, Akron for a decade, EMU for however long).

The better the core foundation, the less apt a school is to be down for a long, long time for a couple reasons. First, they have competitive facilities, making it easier to get better coaches, and for those coaches to recruit. Second, they have more of a tradition, and "top of mind awareness", also making it easier to recruit both coaches and players.

That's the process that began at Ohio under Grobe, and which has continued and accelerated under Solich, the building of that core foundation. Ohio has been building facilities, as Wes has mentioned, and they have built a tradition of winning and going to bowls. Ohio and "winning at football" are becoming synonymous. We also saw from that zipcode map that was posted here awhile back that Ohio is building a fan base, and that support is slowly creeping northward and westward, and they are becoming a strong second choice for SE Ohio fans. I'm pretty sure that we can all agree that as a result the situation will be better for the next coach than it was for, say, Lichtenburg, it will be more likely he will do well, and less likely that Ohio will return to the pattern of the 80s and 90s.

Last Edited: 3/7/2015 4:29:57 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

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