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Topic: What is a University but the People?

Topic: What is a University but the People?

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The Situation
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Member Since: 7/12/2010
Location: Columbus, OH
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What is a University but the People?

Posted: 11/28/2014 5:24:13 PM

Without bricks, or books, or stadium lights, a university has life. And Ohio University, like all universities, derives quality of life from the contributions of alumni, students, staff, and fans alike.

I am proud to be an alumni of Ohio University. I couldn’t ask for a better student experience. And I don’t hesitate to preach the highest praises of what I believe to be the best undergraduate college experience in the state of Ohio.

But when I look to my future experience as alumni, I’m discouraged.

Positive alumni experiences are strongly correlated to athletic successes of the university. Football foremost, and basketball to a slightly lesser extent, create these positive experiences more often in their “good years” than otherwise.

I’m discouraged because I see Ohio University alumni standing in their own way of “good years”. I’m discouraged because of the number of negative contributions I see on this message board. When I say “standing in their own way” I don’t mean quibbling over a 6-6 season, or relevance of a bowl game. When I say “standing in their own way”, I mean actively attempting to devalue the product (football) without having a significant ability to add value to the product.

At best a message board poster’s opinion on coaching staff is worthless (unacknowledged). At worst, the cumulative effect of the opinion of the dissenting public at large leads to tangible change. But in almost all cases where a disgruntled public leads to tangible change (the dismissal of a coach, or teacher, or CEO, or congressman), the dissenters have no significant control over the replacement. When dissenters rely on the authority of the existing system to replace the allegedly unqualified coach (etc), the dissenters are vision-less.

The historical athletic powers all had a vision. Just look at Ohio State’s extreme efforts to leverage the value of the name “Ohio”. The best thing ever done for this athletic program was changing the name of the university from American Western, to OHIO. Someone had a vision back in 1804. Branding efforts have all gone downhill from there. And Ohio State has capitalized. Vison-less blunders of this university include (but are not limited to):

- Changing the name of the football stadium to Peden Stadium, instead of Ohio Stadium (now utilized by Ohio State)
- Not fighting Ohio State’s first attempts to use a block O on uniforms/equipment
- Not rebuttaling the first script Ohio marching band formation by Ohio State with a script Ohio marching band formation
- Not rebuttaling the first “OH-IO” cheers for Ohio State with “OH-IO” cheers for Ohio University
- Removing the state of Ohio outline from the Convo basketball court (the outline is now utilized by Ohio State)
- BONUS: Not fighting the University of Oklahoma’s first attempts to refer to itself as “OU” (founded 84 years after Ohio University)

The university may never be able to fully overcome the negative effects of these missed opportunities. And if OHIO is to ever overcome these blunders, success will be attributed to the positive contributions of the People associated with the university.

Frank Solich has made more positive contributions to this university than most nearly all OHIO alumni. He is a Hall of Fame coach and I hope he will be honored accordingly by OHIO in the years to come. If you trust (or allow) authority to find your replacement for Frank Solich or any of his assistants, then trust the same authority to know when it’s time for that replacement.

If you are making a negative contribution to Ohio University, what do you have to say for yourself? Afterall, what is a university but the People?

Casper71
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RE: What is a University but the People?

Posted: 11/28/2014 5:35:56 PM

Dude, the F-ball team, even in objective methodologies used by posters on this Board, is about 100 of 120 this year. Some here feel that is really disappointing given we are 10 years into building a program. Those that are most vociferous on this Board DO NOT want to see the program going back to the late 70s, 80s, and early 90s when it was in the 100s consistently out of less than 120 teams. It is that simple.

This staff needs to put a better product on the field than it has recently. That starts with recruiting MORE BETTER PLAYERS and then coaching them up once you get them. I know,easier said than done! But other MAC schools seem to be able to do it: NIU, CMU, WMU, Toledo and BG to name 5.

The Situation
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RE: What is a University but the People?

Posted: 11/28/2014 5:40:08 PM

Dude the public can fire but the public can't hire.

Gain some awareness of how the world works.

You're literally demanding the authority (whoever that authority may be) find a replacement even though the exact same authority aparently wasn't competent enough to realize it was time for a replacement.

That's conginitive dissonance.

Last Edited: 11/28/2014 5:40:43 PM by The Situation

Casper71
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RE: What is a University but the People?

Posted: 11/28/2014 5:46:15 PM

Wow, Situation all of us on here are just sharing opinions with like minded interested people. And we all have the University's best interest at heart. You are taking this way too serious if you think FS and staff or the Athletic Dept or the Administration really care what we think or opine. This if, after all, just a place to share opinions, positive or negative, and give feed back to others.

I'd say lighten up a bit...don't take anything on here too serious.

Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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RE: What is a University but the People?

Posted: 11/28/2014 5:50:16 PM

The Situation wrote:

Gain some awareness of how the world works.

Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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RE: What is a University but the People?

Posted: 11/28/2014 5:55:45 PM

The Situation wrote:

I’m discouraged because I see Ohio University alumni standing in their own way of “good years”.

Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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RE: What is a University but the People?

Posted: 11/28/2014 5:56:32 PM

The Situation wrote:

At best a message board poster’s opinion on coaching staff is worthless (unacknowledged). At worst, the cumulative effect of the opinion of the dissenting public at large leads to tangible change. But in almost all cases where a disgruntled public leads to tangible change (the dismissal of a coach, or teacher, or CEO, or congressman), the dissenters have no significant control over the replacement. When dissenters rely on the authority of the existing system to replace the allegedly unqualified coach (etc), the dissenters are vision-less.

The Situation
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RE: What is a University but the People?

Posted: 11/28/2014 6:01:33 PM

Casper I know you're a Monroe backer so u probably can't comprehend good.

Per my post: I don't think a message board poster can have a positive impact on a coaching staff (or strategy, or recruiting, or the like). My specific wording was "unacknowledged".

But I damn sure know that public opinion can run a guy out of town. What is a message board but public opinion amplified?

I take what is in my control very seriously. And making a concious effort to communicate that I think message board posters on this site like yourself are making negative contributions to the university is within my control.

Reading complaints on a regular basis about the state of the program from 50+ year old alumni is like listening to a father complain to his kids about the size of their house. It's like dad, you had your chance to make hay while the sun shined. The small house is on you.

Big programs have alumni with big money. Look at Kansas basketball for example, who had an alumni spend $4.3M on the orginal rules of basketball.

I don't take most of you on here too serioulsy. I mean look at the product over the last 50 years. What is a university but the people?

Last Edited: 11/28/2014 6:04:01 PM by The Situation

Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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RE: What is a University but the People?

Posted: 11/28/2014 6:04:46 PM

The Situation wrote:

I take what is in my control very seriously.

bornacatfan
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RE: What is a University but the People?

Posted: 11/28/2014 6:58:01 PM

I think it is awesome that the phrase "congnitive dissonance" can be used ans no other poster bats an eye. That sure says something about the quality of the people here. I am on 20 or so boards and all would have had some smart remark about that. Kudos all. it is about the people

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

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bobcat2nc
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RE: What is a University but the People?

Posted: 11/28/2014 9:30:22 PM

bornacatfan wrote:

Actually, it is only cognitive dissonance if the conflict is realized by the person who has conflicting beliefs or thoughts --couldn't resist bornacatfan :)

Last Edited: 11/29/2014 11:01:59 AM by bobcat2nc

Casper71
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RE: What is a University but the People?

Posted: 11/28/2014 10:18:49 PM

Situation...this thread is funny. Obviously, you don't read ALL of my posts. Your damn right I am critical. Some in jest, other quite warranted. Other posts of mine are positive (check out many since the football season ended). I repeat though, nobody that really matters reads any of the stuff posted on these boards. And none of their decisions are based on coming to a blog. So, again, don't take yourself, your posts or anyone elses on this board too seriously. It's just chatter!

And, by the way, my thoughts are my own. Just because someone posts things similar to what I say or vice-versa does not mean I "support" anybody on this Board. You do know, OCF and I have even agreed often lately.

TWT
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RE: What is a University but the People?

Posted: 11/29/2014 2:38:54 AM

The Situation wrote:

Ohio University has always been a school that is about making a mark for itself academically or intellectually. Prior to McDavis this school was a pure mid major and so the alumni have low expectations. Saul and Solich are paid like Mountain West coaches so its changing. The direction the athletic department is moving in is to cater to big donors with the idea that if there is breakthrough success in football or basketball they'll be able to retain the coach. Most likely it will happen in basketball but they'll always put their best foot forward in football to give the school a shot at the MAC Championship.

Last Edited: 11/29/2014 3:44:05 AM by TWT

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The Optimist
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RE: What is a University but the People?

Posted: 11/29/2014 7:40:00 AM

Strongly agree with the general direction of The Situation's above comments.

I have seen some alumni state "we don't have the resources to compete" and that is frustrating to me. An alumni base may not have much control over the outcome of tomorrow's game, but they can absolutely influence the outcome of a game 5 years from now, and to a greater extent a game 10 years from now. The effort put in today and resources committed today play a large role in what happens down the road.

The Situation mentioned some events in Ohio University's history that greatly influenced where the program is today. Events that put us into tough positions where we are lacking the means to compete. "Lack of vision" is a perfect phrase to describe it. If some different decisions are made, we are in a better place today.

I am optimistic about where we are headed in the future. I look around and see alumni that I graduated maintaining interest in the program. I see tweets and FB posts as we take the lead over Miami and I see discussions about where our basketball games can be viewed online. Most importantly, I see a growing interest in contributing to the program. I think much of this is a direct result of the vision Rod McDavis has and has tried to implement.
Solich is taking flak and McDavis is taking flak but I believe their vision has instilled a culture that will pay dividends moving forward.

Sleeping giant. Awake but a little hungover is where we are.

I've seen crazier things happen.

The Situation
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RE: What is a University but the People?

Posted: 11/29/2014 9:24:16 AM

Casper this thread is not intended to be funny. And this thread is not about you.

You may very well make your own positive contributions to the university; I don't doubt that. But bottom line, when you make the negative contributions I've described above, you're standing in your own way.

You can continue to trumpet along about the irreleanavce of this board in the grand scheme of things. I have no delusions that this thread is read by Frank or Schaus or McD. What I will say is the inches this program needs are everywhere. And when someone chooses to openly communicate the need to remove a member of the coaching staff without having any significant ability to hire the replacement, that someone is making a negative contribution (because that person is relying on what they believe to be an incompetent decision maker to find the replacement). That someone is being reckless. That someone is forfeiting the inch.

It may have seemed irrelevant at the time to the Ohio University administration that Ohio State put a block O on their hats, they might have thought it was irrelevant that Ohio State started cheering "OH-IO", or started performing script Ohio. The list goes on. But everything on that list is an inch OHIO forfeited. And the quality of OHIO University life is still feeling the effects today of those forfeited inches.

As for your comment about my seriousness. That's an awfully serious comment to make. Are you telling someone how to live their life? Lighten up a bit Casper, you don't know me. You're taking this too seriously.

L.C.
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RE: What is a University but the People?

Posted: 11/29/2014 10:54:18 AM

Casper71 wrote:

... I repeat though, nobody that really matters reads any of the stuff posted on these boards. And none of their decisions are based on coming to a blog. So, again, don't take yourself, your posts or anyone elses on this board too seriously. It's just chatter!...

I would rephrase that to "nobody that really matters SHOULD read any of the stuff posted on these boards." I'm sure that the coaches tell the athletes to stay away, yet I'm equally sure that some of them can't resist peeking in to see what is being said about them. I'm also absolutely positive that some parents read this because I have talked to several of them.

While it's true that, to some, these threads are "just chatter", they do have the potential to have an effect on the players that read them, or become aware of what is said here. Make no mistake, fans, whether chattering on chat boards, or whether in person, can affect the results. That's obvious enough from the facts that home teams always have an advantage, and from the fact that coaches and players always want the fans to be loud, and supportive, and from the fact that teams with loud, supportive fans tend to do better than those without.

Let's look at a hypothetical example. Suppose a team has a star, who keeps leading them to victory. Finally, in one game, he fails, and instead makes a mistake that costs the game. Suppose, on the one hand, that the fans turn on him, and say bad things about him. If he becomes aware of it, will that affect his play going forward, and if so, will the effect be positive? Suppose on the other hand, that even after his mistake, the fans continue to support him and the team, and perhaps even show up when the team returns home with signs of support, so that when the team comes home with heads down, they look up and to their surprise, find supportive fans. Will that affect their play going forward, and if so, will that effect be positive?

I've seen both of the above happen, and the effect is exactly as you'd expect. One tends to have a negative effect, the other a positive one. Never underestimate the fact that fans can and do affect the players.

One of the reasons I am so impressed with this team is that, despite the fact that much of this board was openly hostile and critical of them all year, they never let it affect them, and they kept playing hard, for themselves, and did manage to achieve at least some goals, being bowl eligible, and beating Miami.

There is another thread about the negativity in the chat thread. I've been in there, and am not comfortable in there, but I think that it's a far better place for negativity than the discussion threads as it leaves nothing behind to read later.

In any case, as a believer in free speech, I think people have a right to say what they want, where they want it. I just think they should think about the impact they might have when they do choose to say it. As I said in another thread earlier this year, my personal rule is that I try not to post anything on here about any player that I wouldn't say directly to that player if he were in front of me.

Last Edited: 11/29/2014 10:58:20 AM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

L.C.
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RE: What is a University but the People?

Posted: 11/29/2014 11:34:10 AM

bobcat2nc wrote:

Actually, it is only cognitive dissonance if the conflict is realized by the person who has conflicting beliefs or thoughts --couldn't resist bornacatfan :)

They do have to have conflicting beliefs, but I'm not so sure they need to be consciously aware of them. I believe it would still qualify as cognitive dissonance if they subconsciously reacted with emotional discomfort, even if they weren't really sure why. (I couldn't resist, either.) ;)

Last Edited: 11/29/2014 11:34:48 AM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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RE: What is a University but the People?

Posted: 11/29/2014 11:42:46 AM

A problem is we've raised a class of athletes who only expect praise, write off anything other than praise as the work of "haters". Then they self destruct when a coach tries to coach them, society tries to make them live within the rules the rest of us do.

It's an entitlement. Not unexpected given the overemphasis of athletics in our society, but not an entitlement I'm too fond of.

And the fans are equally entitled, believing they have the right to say anything they want, that the athletes are their own plastic army men to manipulate in the sandbox of Twitter and boards and such.

It all sucks. It's all self-perpetuating. But it all makes a lot of money. I don't know when the bubble pops, but it will.

Last Edited: 11/29/2014 11:45:03 AM by Brian Smith (No, not that one)

Monroe Slavin
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RE: What is a University but the People?

Posted: 11/29/2014 12:14:37 PM

situation--get over yourself. Oh, poor you, Mr. Authority On It All, you're discouraged.

Great; have your opinion. But don't inflict it on others as if it's The Right Opinion.

Clue, cause you clearly don't have your M.O.: As far as football goes (relevant 'cause you started this thread here and it's about we who criticize football), there is no Ohio program. We're about the 100th best team out of about 125, there are about 100-120 who ever post on this board (about only 30 real regulars it seems), and we haven't beaten a MAC team with a winning record in about 30 games (and the MAC is a horrible conference, especially the East). From a staff which has been here and together for 10 years we get this mediocrity and I'm supposed to be happy?!

Beyond that, what gives you the haughty arrogance to tell us, out of your self-claimed superior intelligence, what the 'right opinion' is.

Here's another clue: We're putting a lot of money into football and allied facilities and getting no return of note (MAC title, performance recently), so guess who's really hurting the University--those who let this continue.

Take a look at these games: CMU, BG, Buffalo last year, WMU, BG, CMU this year. We are not a good team. Whoopee, we rallied to beat a horrid Miami team in the last second--we must now be ranked in the top ten, right?

You don't have to like my opinion. And I enjoy a good give and take. But your presumption that you know it all does not help your case.

Last Edited: 11/29/2014 12:15:54 PM by Monroe Slavin

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Paul Graham
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RE: What is a University but the People?

Posted: 11/29/2014 12:16:08 PM

Just another attempt to distract everyone from yet another season as a second tier MAC team.

L.C.
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RE: What is a University but the People?

Posted: 11/29/2014 12:16:33 PM

Delete Pending wrote:

Very true.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

Monroe Slavin
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RE: What is a University but the People?

Posted: 11/29/2014 12:21:04 PM

Also, situation, you criticized me for not answering your questions. Fair enough. But then leaven that by, hey, that's the nature of a board like this.

Here's one you ignored. I asked something like this in another thread of yours: How many coaches in the last 40-50 years have been at a school for 10 years and not won the league title? Of those, how many won it after that 10th year?

See, I'm afraid that 20-0 to 20-23 in the one MAC title game and down 0-21 to a struggling 24-21 over our arch-rival in a year in which they are horrible is what this staff is about. It's quite unlikely that this staff is going to bring us better, going to bring us a MAC title.

I am not in favor of firing members of the staff per se; I hope that they can change and prove me wrong. But if they don't, then they've been given much more of a chance than is need and it's time for next.

SBH
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RE: What is a University but the People?

Posted: 11/29/2014 12:27:03 PM

We seem to hold our basketball coaches to a much higher standard than our football coaches. Perhaps that was appropriate 10 years ago, but given our significantly increased investment in football, why do we still believe mediocre or mediocre-plus is OK?

The Situation
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RE: What is a University but the People?

Posted: 11/29/2014 12:32:29 PM

Monroe,

If you think I'm infringing upon your freedom to have an opinion, I'll assume you're intimidated.

I disagree with you and your cronies. Business as usual. But I haven't prevented a single utterance from your keyboard.

This isn't about me being right. Or me being the authority.

I speak as if I have the answers because I believe I have the answers. If I didn't believe I had the answers I wouldn't waste your time.

If you don't believe you have the answers. Don't waste my time. Or do, because either way I won't be able stop your mental dribble.

I didon't answer your question about coaches because I'm not going to be your research assistant. Do your own research and I'll fact check your incompetence if I feel compelled to.

I can tell you without looking though that Bill Snyder fits your criteria precisely.

You're a joke Monroe. And this football program has been a joke under your watch. What is a university but the people?

Monroe Slavin
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RE: What is a University but the People?

Posted: 11/29/2014 12:36:55 PM

I like you--you are a very strange person!

Relax, dude, you take this way too personally.

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