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Ohio Football

Topic: Talent...

Topic: Talent...

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catfan28
General User

Member Since: 6/11/2011
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 1,503

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Talent...

Posted: 10/12/2014 1:56:45 AM

Had some interesting discussions with those around me at the game today. When it was all said and done, the conclusion most of us came to is that our issue at it's core is simply about talent. It's not Tim Albin, play-calling, motivation or the strength coach IMO. Though all those things we discuss may play a small part.

At the end of the day, look at BG and Central (throw out the OOC for now). Both teams had significantly more athletes/weapons that what we have. While there is a good amount of heart and hustle out there, we are outmanned.

A team of legit D1 recruits will take down a team of walk-ons and mostly 1AA level talent 9 times out of 10. You can occasionally sneak the upset - but otherwise it is pretty cut and dry. Both BG and Central are waaaay ahead of us from a program standpoint right now.

Casper71
General User

Member Since: 12/1/2006
Post Count: 3,090

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RE: Talent...

Posted: 10/12/2014 9:42:27 AM

Some of us have been saying that for a while.

71 BOBCAT
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 1,902

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RE: Talent...

Posted: 10/12/2014 9:50:32 AM

This is an interesting post.
Frank has made mention that his current freshman and sophmore classes were 2 of his best at Ohio, thus it leads one to believe our current senior and junior classes are weak.
Did we not recruit well enough 4-5 years ago to keep the talent at a high level?
I for 1 do believe that the experience the current underclassmen are receiving will pay off.
It just bugs me to have a down year or 2 when we have come so far under Frank.
Does anyone have any insight into next years class. I do not recall any comments from Frank on this class.

GO BOBCATS

Bobcat Grad 86
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 1,397

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RE: Talent...

Posted: 10/12/2014 10:23:30 AM

We had a lot of players who left the 2010 class that would be the current Senior Red Shirt class.

https://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recr...

Ashley who was the only RB in the class was a JC transfer who never saw the field and I think never even dressed for a game.

The next year, the only running back we signed was Kyle Hammonds, who was listed as 17 pounds smaller than Daz.

https://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recr...

Don't have time to go through each position, but the 2010 Class was a real miss for a program that has stressed red-shirting.

DublinCat
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 236

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RE: Talent...

Posted: 10/12/2014 12:46:22 PM

The FOUR losses:

CMU � 4-3 (One P5 Win) (2P5 Losses) 4-0 when playing with previous suspended / convicted players

BG- 5-2 (I P5 Win) (OU- D held BG to fewest yards - under 400 for first time this season)

UK � (5-1) (only loss in 3OT @ Florida) (OU D held UK to lowest yardage of season and second lowest scoring game of season for UK)

Marshall � (6-0) (second lowest scoring game of season vs. OU- two points away from lowest scoring game)

The above losses appear to be the FOUR best teams on our 2014 schedule- By comparison the D looks to be serviceable and among the best any of the above four teams have played thus far.

The offense has been the problem. Losing 90% of last years starters and our starting QB; one would expect some challenges and growing pains.

Non of the remaining games will be easy, but they should be easier than CMU, BG, UK and Marshall.

WR -Lewis had 100 yards yesterday for BG
RB- Rawls had 245 total yards and two TD vs. Ohio

Take away their 345 yards of offense vs. Ohio and what would have been the result?

Should the coaching staff go after talent like this more aggressively? I know we went after Lewis but did he qualify to play in Athens?

Minus Titus Davis I do not see a big void in MAC talent, only experience.

OU87

L.C.
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Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 10,492

Status: Offline

RE: Talent...

Posted: 10/12/2014 2:22:16 PM

71 BOBCAT wrote:

This is an interesting post.
Frank has made mention that his current freshman and sophomore classes were 2 of his best at Ohio, thus it leads one to believe our current senior and junior classes are weak.
Did we not recruit well enough 4-5 years ago to keep the talent at a high level?
I for 1 do believe that the experience the current underclassmen are receiving will pay off....GO BOBCATS

The answer is, clearly, yes. Here's a little recruiting history.

During 2005-2009 Ohio had a single recruiting coordinator, Germano. Germano wasn't able to get a lot of players from Ohio because Ohio University was way down the recruiting pecking order, behind schools like Miami, Toledo, BG, and even Akron. Therefore Germano scoured the country for players that the big schools missed, and Ohio's recruiting classes were loaded with players from places like Pennsylvania, Nebraska, Oklahoma, California, Georgia, Texas, and Florida, and then he filled in with under-the-radar kids from Ohio that no one else wanted. Almost none of the kids during those years had other offers, or were rated 3 stars, but there were some players in his classes. Furthermore, year by year, his aim improved, and the classes got better.

During 2010, Germano, who was tired of the recruiting coordinator job, I think, handed the reins to the current QB coach, Scott Isphording. That class was small, and for whatever reason, the results were not that good. Most of the players from that class left the program, and only a handful are left (Cochran, Ingol, Carpenter, Kristoff). Some left because of impatience (Snyder), others because they were starters, but got hurt (Mark Smith, Bryce Dietz). But, Ohio is almost without 5th year Seniors this year for the first time.

From 2011-now recruiting has been handled by Brian Haines. His first class, 2011, was his worst, but they have been slowly improving. His last two classes are his best. 2011 had some very good players in it, but like the 2010 class, included a lot of players that have since left the program (Welter, Bell, Curtis, Price, Hammonds, Fisher, Bennett). Haines's recent classes contain mostly Ohio players. In most cases, now, Ohio has moved from the bottom of the MAC pecking order to the top. If Ohio offers an Ohio player, more often than not he accepts the Ohio offer, or he accepts a competing P5 offer. Losing Ohio players to other MAC schools happens much less often than a decade ago.

The last two years his classes have been the two best yet under Solich. That comes from the horse's mouth, but also my numbers confirm it. Earlier I was asked how various classes compared on the recruiting thread, and the numbers I came up with, and some of the players from each class, were:

2006 (Germano) - 2.68 (Price, Hodge, Luchsinger, Posey, McCrae, Williamson, Garrett, S. Jackson)
2007 (Germano) - 2.65 (Keller, Flading, Dunlop, Strum, Brazill, Harden, Davidson, C. Meyers)
2008 (Germano) - 2.93 (Huynh, Carlotta, Carrie, Weller, Herman, Thompson, Lewis, Futrell, Moore, Tafua)
2009 (Germano) - 2.94 (Lechner, Hughes, Fortune, Woseley, Allen, Dovell, Jones, Foster, McGrath)
2010 (Isphoding) - 2.15 (Carpenter, Cochran, Krstoff, Ingol)
2011 (Haines) - 2.59 (Russell, L. Smith, Crutcher, McQueen, Wells, Vick, Purdum, Jov. Johnson, Bass, Lucas)
2012 (Haines) - 2.86 (Gibbons, Watson, Laseak, Patterson, B. Brown, Tor. Davis, Reid)
2013 (Haines) - 3.16 (Wood, Sayles, Poling, Basham, Mangen, Cope, McLeod)
2014 (Haines) - 3.40 (Lowery, McCray, Walker, Brunson, White, Preuhs, Brunis, Nelson, Langenkamp)

These numbers are based on my after-the-fact evaluations of how the players contributed at Ohio, so the last couple classes are still partly guesses. They may drop some, but based on the impact these players are already having, the classes will no doubt be higher than those that preceded them.

catfan28 wrote:

A team of legit D1 recruits will take down a team of walk-ons and mostly 1AA level talent 9 times out of 10.

A team of Seniors and Juniors will take down a team of mostly Freshmen and Sophomores 9 out of 10 times, too. However, the following two years you have a team of Juniors and Sophomores and then a team of Seniors and Juniors, and you will be much improved.

I get accused sometimes of pulling my long range predictions out of some dark place, but actually, I use a weighted average of the recruiting scores. The formula I use is .5*true freshmen+1*redshirt freshmen+2*sophomores+3*juniors+3.5*redshirt seniors

Multiplying the numbers above, and using "3" for the next 2 classes, I get:
2011 - 27.39
2012 - 27.395
2013 - 26.36
2014 - 25.875
2015 - 28.865
2016 - 30.79

Did I expect a weak year this year? Absolutely. I said so before the season. Do I expect a dramatically better team the next two years? Absolutely. It's not reading tea leaves; I'm just punching the numbers.

Last Edited: 10/12/2014 2:23:43 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

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