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Topic: Let's be Realalistic About This Team

Topic: Let's be Realalistic About This Team

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71 BOBCAT
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 1,902

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Let's be Realalistic About This Team

Posted: 10/5/2014 9:34:13 AM

Facts;
1) We have a walk on starting QB
2) We have a very young team
3) Our current record @ 3-3 is deceiving.....the 3 victories are against teams with a combined record of 1-14
4) LC was accurate when he assessed this team prior to the season starting
These facts lead this fan to be concerned that a winning record may not be in our reach this year.
I'm concerned, not panicing because I believe in the team & coaching staff to make adjustments too enabl us to salvage that winning record.
This fan who resides in R.I. will continue to support our university during the down years as well as the great ones. I will be in attendance for the Akron game in 2 weeks to enjoy all that is the spectical of college football.

GO BOBCATS

Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,206

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RE: Let's be Realalistic About This Team

Posted: 10/5/2014 9:39:01 AM

Speaking of the Akron game, any idea what time it starts?

71 BOBCAT
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 1,902

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RE: Let's be Realalistic About This Team

Posted: 10/5/2014 9:42:21 AM

Alan,
I was told when I called a few weeks ago to purchase my tickets that kick off is 2:00 pm.

GO BOBCATS

OUcats82
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Member Since: 1/9/2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Post Count: 1,879

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RE: Let's be Realalistic About This Team

Posted: 10/5/2014 11:20:36 AM

I'm still behind this team 100% and am not going anywhere. But the proof is in the pudding that we were curb stomped on both sides of the ball yesterday.

Our defense yielded some unacceptable numbers:

Top rushing performances nationally:

1 Terrence Franks, RB TXST W 35-30 vs. IDHO 15 284 18.9 3
2 Melvin Gordon, RB WIS L 14-20 at NW 27 259 9.6 1
3 Thomas Rawls, RB CMU W 28-10 vs. OHIO 40 229 5.7 2

Top receiving performances nationally

1 Vince Mayle, WR WSU L 59-60 vs. CAL 11 263 23.9 1
2 Sterling Shepard, WR OKLA L 33-37 at TCU 7 215 30.7 1
3 Jaelen Strong, WR ASU W 38-34 at USC 10 202 20.2 3
4 Mike Dudek, WR ILL L 27-38 vs. PUR 8 200 25.0 0
5 Titus Davis, WR CMU W 28-10 vs. OHIO 10 181 18.1 2

Team Stat Comparison
OHIO CMU
1st Downs 8 25
3rd down efficiency
3-12 13-17
4th down efficiency
0-1 0-0
Total Yards 187 467
Passing 98 233
Comp-Att
7-21 17-27
Yards per pass
4.7 8.6
Rushing 89 234
Rushing Attempts
23 52
Yards per rush
3.9 4.5
Penalties 2-18 7-51
Turnovers 0 1
Fumbles lost
0 1
Interceptions thrown
0 0
Possession 17:41 42:19

187 total yards of offense is just plain bad, especially when you give up 467.

CMU will likely finish 3rd in the West this year. This smoke and mirrors BS that Frank has been using for the last few years is really getting long in the tooth.

Our best option at QB is a walk-on who was just a slightly above average player in high school? No, there needs to be more than that. We are in a rebuilding year? From what, a 7-6 team who consistently wet the bed and folded like a lawn chair most of the time last year? It's great going to bowl games, but we are in an era where mediocrity is rewarded through a bloated bowl system.

The coach is the CEO of this company and his product and performance is crap. The fact that we have no depth, no execution, no excitement all comes back to his leadership. Why do you think we always hear the same stale drivel from the announcers when we are on TV about him and our program? Because they are grasping at straws to come up with good things to say.

I am not nor ever will be in the camp of "well, but we used to suck, and now we are more like average or do not suck as much as we used to." It was unacceptable for me that we were ever as bad as we were prior to Frank. I will always give credit where credit is due-we have definitely improved as a program under his guidance but I think that we have been on the downward slope of his regime for a while.

When you have average to below average talent playing poorly, that usually means that you will lose more than you win.

CMU is a good team but we should not be completely demolished by them like we were yesterday.

Ohio-The State University

BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
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RE: Let's be Realalistic About This Team

Posted: 10/5/2014 11:24:47 AM

71 BOBCAT wrote:

Best post of the season!

The Situation
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Member Since: 7/12/2010
Location: Columbus, OH
Post Count: 957

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RE: Let's be Realalistic About This Team

Posted: 10/5/2014 12:31:54 PM

71 BOBCAT wrote:

Facts;
1) We have a walk on starting QB

We have a starting QB with a scholarship. He is a former walk-on who is starting ahead of a player who was recruited with a scholarship.

His initial status within the program is largely irrelevant at this point, and gives us limited to no insight into his playing ability.

I mean come on man.. Aaron Rodgers of the Green Bay Packers only had an offer to walk-on at Illinois. He then became a star at Butte Community College and later Cal..

71 BOBCAT wrote:

2) We have a very young team

I would say we have a very inexperienced team. We ranked 121 out of 128 in experience points by Phil Steele this season. But what conclusions will that support?

http://www.philsteele.com/Blogs/2014/JUNE14/DBJune16.html

71 BOBCAT wrote:

3) Our current record @ 3-3 is deceiving.....the 3 victories are against teams with a combined record of 1-14

The record is not deceiving. It states quite clearly what has been achieved. Three wins and three losses. This is the strongest objective measure of this accomplishment.

In fact I would argue that what you're alluding to with the particular facts you've selected is deceiving.

You've alluded to the lack of value this team has based on initial scholarship status of the QB and the alleged "youth" of the team (which I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were referring to lack of experience).

I'll assume we can dismiss your knock on the OHIO QB's initial walk-on status by demonstrating the actual possibility of becoming an NFL Pro Bowl QB after only being offered walk-on status at an FBS school.

We're only left your you "fact" about "youth". But according to the experience chart put together by Phil Steele, OHIO has beaten and lost to teams significantly more experience than their own.

OHIO EXP RNK 121
KENT EXP RNK 74
UK EXP RNK 56
MARSHALL EXP RNK 20
IDAHO EXP RNK 8 <----- WIN
E ILL EXP RNK N/A
CMU EXP RNK 4 <---- LOSS

71 BOBCAT wrote:

These facts lead this fan to be concerned that a winning record may not be in our reach this year.

At no point do your facts support your conclusion.

Let's be realistic.

BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 10,391

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RE: Let's be Realalistic About This Team

Posted: 10/5/2014 12:39:54 PM

The Situation wrote:

71 BOBCAT wrote:

Facts;
1) We have a walk on starting QB

71 BOBCAT wrote:

2) We have a very young team

71 BOBCAT wrote:

3) Our current record @ 3-3 is deceiving.....the 3 victories are against teams with a combined record of 1-14

71 BOBCAT wrote:

These facts lead this fan to be concerned that a winning record may not be in our reach this year.

At no point do your facts support your conclusion.

Let's be realistic.

Monroe Slavin
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

Status: Offline

RE: Let's be Realalistic About This Team

Posted: 10/5/2014 2:00:33 PM

Okay, let's assume that our youth, inexperience, talent isn't what we'd want it to be.

That leaves the mental aspect of the game. Imagination, strategy, creativity.

Game tempo, play selection, formations, etc.

And ours stinks. I ask someone to, please, tell me HOW IT COULD BE WORSE.

IT NEEDS TO CHANGE THIS WEEK AND/OR SOMEONE NEEDS TO BE FIRED.

The last 26 games have been horrible. We have perhaps 2-3 decent performances and a ton of tank jobs (see yesterday and the last year's infamous Buffalo, Bowling Green, Kent, East Carolina stompings).

If you don't think that ECU last year was pitiful, go watch the last 4th quarter. When it counted, we crumpled.

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!

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Paul Graham
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Member Since: 1/18/2005
Location: The Plains, OH
Post Count: 1,424

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RE: Let's be Realalistic About This Team

Posted: 10/5/2014 2:01:14 PM

The Situation wrote:

71 BOBCAT wrote:

Facts;
1) We have a walk on starting QB

71 BOBCAT wrote:

2) We have a very young team

71 BOBCAT wrote:

3) Our current record @ 3-3 is deceiving.....the 3 victories are against teams with a combined record of 1-14

71 BOBCAT wrote:

These facts lead this fan to be concerned that a winning record may not be in our reach this year.

At no point do your facts support your conclusion.

Let's be realistic.

Some of you are in denial. Its sad to watch.

Can any of you walk-on fetishists admit that there may be times when dozens of professional football coaches and scouts may actually be RIGHT about a player? Could it be possible that maybe, just maybe, no matter how hard a kid works or "says the right thing" that they may not be cut out to be an FBS football player?

For every 1 Aaron Rogers there's thousands of kids that play FCS, D2, D3, etc... Should we give them all scholarships here? Would that may everyone feel good?

Last Edited: 10/5/2014 2:07:29 PM by Paul Graham

Monroe Slavin
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Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

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RE: Let's be Realalistic About This Team

Posted: 10/5/2014 2:02:45 PM

I'm eminently willing to be informed of info that I don't know about or am ignoring.

But someone please explain to me how the game notes from yesterday can state that Tarell Basham got his first sack of the season yesterday. It would seem an act of wonderment to have so used his apparent talent such that he has only one sack after six games.

71 BOBCAT
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 1,902

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RE: Let's be Realalistic About This Team

Posted: 10/5/2014 3:24:35 PM

The Situation,
I appreciate your comments to each of my points
We can both choose different words to represent each of the points I have mentioned. As an example; I use youth you choose inexperienced, or you choose scholarship player after being brought on as a walk on and I choose walk-on.
Semantics can make conversation more complicated then it needs to be.
All makes for good discussion.

GO BOBCATS

Cats-22
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Member Since: 9/30/2006
Post Count: 370

Status: Offline

RE: Let's be Realalistic About This Team

Posted: 10/5/2014 3:38:48 PM

OUcats82 wrote:

Looks like our mistake on D was not selling out to stop the run and pass. (That's a joke.)

Davis and Rawls are both good players. Giving up 40 carries at a 5.7 average isn't good, but it could be worse. For example the other two players on your list had way higher ypc. The most remarkable thing there was not Ohio's weakness on D but more that CMU was willing to give the ball to one guy 40 times.

I think the D stepped up in some instances yesterday. Fatigue played into the yards they gave up late, CMU had a huge time of possession advantage because Ohio's offense couldn't get anything going (and then when they did, it was mostly on big plays). Defenses get tired more than offenses because it's more tiring to defend than to dictate the action.

Last Edited: 10/5/2014 4:13:34 PM by Cats-22

The Situation
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Location: Columbus, OH
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RE: Let's be Realalistic About This Team

Posted: 10/5/2014 3:42:20 PM

Paul Graham wrote:

Since you made a reference to Aaron Rodgers I'll assume you're referring to my post. But I made no conclusions about the state of OHIO football in my post. I said nothing about what value I place on walk-ons or the talent on the field after 6 games. I simply systematically invalidated the thread poster's conclusion by addressing the poster's "facts".

As for your rambling tangent about walk-ons:

Of the "thousands" (tens of thousands?) that could do no better than walk on to an FBS program their first year, how many earn the starting spot at QB at that FBS program?

You're not working with a field of "thousands" when you evaluate Sprague (a former walk on turned starting QB). You're working with a field of dozens in recent memory. Your vagueness is deceiving.

Statistically the walk on that earns the starting QB job is in a relatively small group over time, and theyre with elite company.

Coaches whiff on talent sometimes (Favre, Warner, Romo, Flacco, Cassel, Fitzpatrick). I'm not calling Sprague a pro. I'm not even calling for Sprague to replace Vick. But what I am saying is the "fact" that Sprague (or even Oulette for that matter) was a walkon is not relevant if we're attempting to objectively measure talent as of today.

The fact is Sprague, and Oulette, and (most likely) any other former walkon in a starting position at an FBS program is quite literally a scholarship player.

The Situation
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Location: Columbus, OH
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RE: Let's be Realalistic About This Team

Posted: 10/5/2014 3:46:16 PM

71 BOBCAT wrote:

I wasn't quibbling over "semantics". Your argument was fundamentally flawed.

I mean you no ill-will.

Go Bobcats.

Monroe Slavin
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

Status: Offline

RE: Let's be Realalistic About This Team

Posted: 10/5/2014 4:01:41 PM

Cats-22 wrote:

OUcats82 wrote:

"Giving up 40 carries at a 5.7 average isn't good, but it could be worse. For example the other two players on your list had way higher ypc. The most remarkable thing there was not Ohio's weakness on D but more that CMU was willing to give the ball to one guy 40 times."

1) So, that's now our standard: that it could have been worse.

2) 40 carries--on the one side, CMU found what worked and stuck with it. On the other side, we didn't and couldn't stop it and we have no idea what works for us--just none.

It's embarrassing. Mid-level MAC team just smashes us.

Cats-22
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RE: Let's be Realalistic About This Team

Posted: 10/5/2014 4:20:33 PM

Monroe, I think complaints about the offense are more appropriate than D at this point. For three quarters Ohio could do nothing on offense and that's an issue. The defense I thought played okay at times, although I admit like Frank said defending the pass early was a problem.

BillyTheCat
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RE: Let's be Realalistic About This Team

Posted: 10/5/2014 4:38:33 PM

Paul Graham wrote:

The Situation wrote:

71 BOBCAT wrote:

Facts;
1) We have a walk on starting QB

71 BOBCAT wrote:

2) We have a very young team

71 BOBCAT wrote:

3) Our current record @ 3-3 is deceiving.....the 3 victories are against teams with a combined record of 1-14

71 BOBCAT wrote:

These facts lead this fan to be concerned that a winning record may not be in our reach this year.

At no point do your facts support your conclusion.

Let's be realistic.

I will agree with this, and that is why I laugh when some call for a guy who is buried deep on the depth chart, for legit reasons that coaches see every day. However some on here see a highlight film against the sister's society of the disabled and they think that kid should get to play.

BillyTheCat
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RE: Let's be Realalistic About This Team

Posted: 10/5/2014 4:41:16 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

And to point, how are you the ultimate judge of talent? Maybe he's being schemed for? And if he is, then he is being a team player and other guys have to step up and be a threat from the other side. Not a ton of coaching or scheming going on for interior guys, they largely have to make plays on their own.

BillyTheCat
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RE: Let's be Realalistic About This Team

Posted: 10/5/2014 4:44:15 PM

Cats-22 wrote:

OUcats82 wrote:

You cannot "sellout" to stop both the run and the pass! You are going to give up something, unless you are just better across the board.

JSF
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RE: Let's be Realalistic About This Team

Posted: 10/5/2014 5:31:02 PM

The Situation wrote:

You're like Aaron Eckhart in "Thank You For Smoking" come to life.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

Cats-22
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RE: Let's be Realalistic About This Team

Posted: 10/5/2014 5:54:56 PM

BillyTheCat wrote:

You cannot "sellout" to stop both the run and the pass! You are going to give up something, unless you are just better across the board.

That was what I meant when I said I was joking. We got burned both ways so it clearly is not as simple to fix as just selling out on the run or pass.

BillyTheCat
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Post Count: 10,391

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RE: Let's be Realalistic About This Team

Posted: 10/5/2014 5:58:44 PM

Cats-22 wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

You cannot "sellout" to stop both the run and the pass! You are going to give up something, unless you are just better across the board.

That was what I meant when I said I was joking. We got burned both ways so it clearly is not as simple to fix as just selling out on the run or pass.

Misunderstood you, sorry, and you are correct, though some do not understand basic concepts.

bobcatsquared
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Post Count: 5,411

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RE: Let's be Realalistic About This Team

Posted: 10/5/2014 6:20:11 PM

BillyTheCat wrote:

Cats-22 wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

You cannot "sellout" to stop both the run and the pass! You are going to give up something, unless you are just better across the board.

That was what I meant when I said I was joking. We got burned both ways so it clearly is not as simple to fix as just selling out on the run or pass.

Misunderstood you, sorry, and you are correct, though some do not understand basic concepts.

On behalf of other BA posters, I would like to thank BillyTheCat (Wayne) for helping us understand concepts.

Last Edited: 10/5/2014 6:25:53 PM by bobcatsquared

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