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Topic:  Offense

Topic:  Offense
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  Offense
   Posted: 9/21/2014 5:48:34 AM 
Frank had some very positive things to say about the offense in his post game remarks. He must have been watching a different game than I was. I can't believe how predictable we are. I seriously wonder what the hell Tim Albin is thinking in the booth.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Offense
   Posted: 9/21/2014 8:14:06 AM 
I thought the offense made nice progress from the last few games. To me, each game they have played better. As they continue to improve, I think it will open up a lot more variety in the play calling.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Offense
   Posted: 9/21/2014 8:42:54 AM 
L.C. wrote:
I thought the offense made nice progress from the last few games. To me, each game they have played better. As they continue to improve, I think it will open up a lot more variety in the play calling.


+1. They turned out a pretty decent day.
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C Money
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  Message Not Read  RE: Offense
   Posted: 9/21/2014 8:54:21 AM 
I'm glad that we appear to have a running back. But the goal line offense is frustrating to watch. Need to stop settling for 3.

I'm starting to worry about the D actually. Can we please get D Bass some help over the top? Every team we play is going to test him deep.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Offense
   Posted: 9/21/2014 9:48:24 AM 
L.C. wrote:
I thought the offense made nice progress from the last few games. To me, each game they have played better. As they continue to improve, I think it will open up a lot more variety in the play calling.


I don't know, LC. I wish I shared your optimism. That was the worst defense in the country and for three quarters we made them look like the Ravens. 7 of those points were set up by the defense dropping us at the 5. We still have a lot of trouble getting the ball in the endzone when we hit the red zone. Add in the penalties and I thought all in all it was a pretty ugly day. I don't think that because we scored a few on Idaho after getting stuffed by Kentucky and Marshall it constitutes progress.
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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: Offense
   Posted: 9/21/2014 12:38:21 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
L.C. wrote:
I thought the offense made nice progress from the last few games. To me, each game they have played better. As they continue to improve, I think it will open up a lot more variety in the play calling.


+1. They turned out a pretty decent day.


Net rushing 272 vs 64. Run the ball, stop the run, win the game. They worked on a lot of things thoughout the game. Very productive and progressive as well. So very sorry about DV, perhaps the player who wants a MACC as much as coach Solich.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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Joe McKinley
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  Message Not Read  RE: Offense
   Posted: 9/21/2014 12:55:30 PM 
Ohio Drive Chart last night:

1. Two plays, 13 yards. Fumble on play which would've yielded first down in Idaho territory.

2. Five plays, 79 yards. Touchdown.

3. Nine plays, 59 yards. Field goal.

4. Five plays, 69 yards. Touchdown.

5. Seven plays, 30 yards. Punt. Illegal formation cost us a TD on this drive and a sack took us well out of FG range. Otherwise, a scoring opportunity.

6. One play, end of half.

7. Seven plays, 59 yards. FG

8. Five plays, 17 yards. Missed FG

9. Three plays, -3 yards. Punt. Chop block on first down play (legit call) changed a second and 3 at the 29 to a first and 21 at our 11.

10. 11 plays, 84 yards. FG

11. 3 plays, 5 yards. Touchdown.

12. 9 plays, 62 yards. Touchdown.

13. 3 plays, -4 yards. Victory formation. End of game.


We fumbled the ball away on the plus side of the field and had two penalties (and a third down sack) that cost us another scoring opportunity and a potential drive. Those are correctable situations.

I, for one, liked the play mix last night -- heavy run focus with a vertical passing game. I think we made the right calls for the personnel we had available and opponent scheme/talent.

We were six of seven in the red zone -- three TDs and three FGs. Would've liked one more TD.

How do we win the East and have a shot at the MACC? I think the team that runs the ball the best and stops the run best will win the East. Take a look at the box scores.

In addition, I think we need to figure out the right mix of press coverage and keeping the ball in front of our defenders. Last night, we leaned more heavily toward less press coverage and when Idaho had time to pass the ball, they were able to work underneath routes either by driving off cornerbacks or dragging receivers across the field. I thought they made very good adjustments to our scheme during the middle portion of the game which allowed them to sustain drives. We countered effectively later, pushing them into the middle which gave us interception opportunities and we had some physical plays in which we separated receivers from the ball. We also took away the passes to the backs late, but sometimes they made a play. Example -- the little fullback screen/shovel got blown up after a couple successes because we were able to knock the back off his feet. The QB, though, was able to scramble wide and break contain for a nice pick-up. Both teams played hard, but I think we were the better conditioned team last night. Just my two cents.

Last Edited: 9/21/2014 12:58:15 PM by Joe McKinley
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Offense
   Posted: 9/21/2014 1:07:15 PM 
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
I don't know, LC. I wish I shared your optimism. That was the worst defense in the country and for three quarters we made them look like the Ravens. 7 of those points were set up by the defense dropping us at the 5. We still have a lot of trouble getting the ball in the endzone when we hit the red zone. Add in the penalties and I thought all in all it was a pretty ugly day. I don't think that because we scored a few on Idaho after getting stuffed by Kentucky and Marshall it constitutes progress.

I'm not saying the offense is where it needs to be, and in fact, it definitely isn't. I'm just saying that I see rays of hope. Idaho's defense may not be great, but they were clearly had one specific goal in mind: stopping OUellette. That meant that the QB carries on the option were effective for big yardage, and the deep passes were as well. Thus, in evaluating the progress of the offense, let's ignore those, and focus solely on how effective Ohio was in running the specific plays that Idaho was focused on stopping.

Here is the distribution of OUellette's carries:
negative carries - 1 (-4)
no gain - 2
one yard - 7
two yards - 6
three yards - 6
four or more yards - 5 (4,12,13,26,42)

Thus, on 81% of the plays, he was held to 3 yards or less. Long term that will never fly. I'm not saying it was his fault, either. Often he took the handoff and had immediate contact. The offensive line needs to get more push, to give him a little room to get started.

Is this a complete negative? No. First, he was held to only one loss all game. Second, when he did have a little room when he got the handoff, he was able to get big yardage a couple times. As I see it, if the offensive line continues to improve, and can get a little more push, and turn those no gains into 2 yards, and the 2 yards into 4, the offense will really start clicking.

My point is that I see progress, and the offense is far closer to working effectively than they were against Kentucky. With a little better push from the offensive line, the ground game can become a serious threat, and a more legitimate decoy. At that point, plays like play action passing and jet sweeps will open up, too, and the coaches will be able to call a much more diverse game.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Offense
   Posted: 9/21/2014 1:33:36 PM 
My view...I guess many will disagree.

I'm OHIO-centric but I didn't think Idaho was very good at all. And, didn't they have a few O-line starters injured. Yet this game was in doubt until about the 6 minute mark of the 4th quarter.

I'm thinking that we really have very few playmakers, none on the D-line especially. But then I've seen guys make plays (OUellette, receivers, Poling, Basham last year, pass rush vs. Kentucky) and I can't figure out why we don't see it consistently. I'm thinking it's scheme/coaching.

1) If we rip off a big run or pass, you can be about 100% sure that the next play will be the same (run by the same back if it was a run or a pass if it was a pass).

2) I don't know exactly what it is but our ability/willingness to let teams that are'pass first' have plenty of time to throw while leaving their receivers wide open is stunningly impressive.

We must lead the universe over the last few years in giving up first down on third and long.

3) If we are really any good then in our season home opener in front of a huge crowd, that game is over early in the third quarter. We led 17-0 and for my money it should have been 34-3 late third quarter. Instead...

Last Edited: 9/21/2014 1:37:45 PM by Monroe Slavin

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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Offense
   Posted: 9/21/2014 1:36:43 PM 
4) Tarell Basham is a right end. He is not a left end. Maybe we all over-estimate and last year was a fluke. But it seems to me to be a pretty good job of prestidigitation to have made him so ineffective. I'm quite surprised at his lack of plays against the passing offenses which we've played. I think the 'leave early for NFL' talk was silly. But four games and little to show? He is a right end, not a left end.

1) I have full faith that if I worked full time as an offensive coordinator for the Ohio Bobcats with the talent which we seem to have on hand that I could do a better in my first week on the job than what I see. Predictable, predictable, predictable. Tell me the last time that a D--coordinator had to call a timeout or adjust because we did something they hadn't seen before or because we came to the line of scrimmage with new.

The direct snap to OUellette and the pass attempt by him at the goal line were 100% absolutely sure to work because they were things which we'd never done before. And without these two things we don't beat a team which was giving up 42 points per game?

No, you do not get credit for the so many big plays between the 20's but inability to finish the drives with a td.

The sanctity of 'only top level school with same head coach and coordinators for 10 year running' is stupid. The goal is not keeping the same coaches employed. The goal is MAC Championship.

I don't want people to lose their jobs. But if this is all our O-coordinator can give us, good-bye.

Ouellette, Daz, Cope, Cochran, Smith, Walker, Mangen, offensive line generally being okay, Vick, Sprague--and 67 points in four games is all that we can manage? I'll bet that the teams we play give up more points on average to other opponents than we get against 'em.

There is just no aggro, nothing dynamic about our offense and it strikes me that its scheme, scheme, scheme.

Where's the band?!
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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: Offense
   Posted: 9/22/2014 10:03:01 AM 
Bingo Monroe!

And, has anyone else noticed that a whole lot of teams are showing various alignments and adjusting to down and yardage situations in their offenses? I've seen teams in the I, under center in a pro set up ,in a wildcat, with one and/or two backs and other formations in the SAME game. I just think OUr offense is getting a bit old. Maybe someone needs one of those sabbaticals? One thing is for sure in college football, if you don't adjust you fall behind.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Offense
   Posted: 9/22/2014 11:22:23 AM 
Casper71 wrote:
Bingo Monroe!

And, has anyone else noticed that a whole lot of teams are showing various alignments and adjusting to down and yardage situations in their offenses? I've seen teams in the I, under center in a pro set up ,in a wildcat, with one and/or two backs and other formations in the SAME game. I just think OUr offense is getting a bit old. Maybe someone needs one of those sabbaticals? One thing is for sure in college football, if you don't adjust you fall behind.


If there's one thing Frank has shown throughout his career, it is that he can adjust. His OHIO teams from Day 1 of his tenure here have run a much different offense than his Nebraska teams, and then he made the big change to the no huddle. I will agree that I don't understand why we don't go under center on first-and-inches type situations. That one puzzles me.

Last Edited: 9/22/2014 11:24:05 AM by OhioCatFan

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Offense
   Posted: 9/22/2014 11:27:39 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Casper71 wrote:
Bingo Monroe!

And, has anyone else noticed that a whole lot of teams are showing various alignments and adjusting to down and yardage situations in their offenses? I've seen teams in the I, under center in a pro set up ,in a wildcat, with one and/or two backs and other formations in the SAME game. I just think OUr offense is getting a bit old. Maybe someone needs one of those sabbaticals? One thing is for sure in college football, if you don't adjust you fall behind.


If there's one thing Frank has shown throughout his career, it is that he can adjust. His OHIO teams from Day 1 of his tenure here have run a much different offense than his Nebraska teams, and then he made the big change to the no huddle. I will agree that I don't understand why we don't go under center on first-and-inches type situations. That one puzzles me.


NO team that runs this offense goes under center. The most important part of the offensive game is the the snap! And the under center snap is so different than the shot gun snap. The snap is a skill that must be perfected and not just used indiscriminately. I agree that I'd like to see the under center snap in short yardage and goal-line situations, either at the goal line or coming out of the goal line. However, I do understand why they do not do this.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Offense
   Posted: 9/22/2014 11:50:57 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
. . . NO team that runs this offense goes under center. .
This is simply not true.

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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: Offense
   Posted: 9/22/2014 12:41:36 PM 
My real question is: why can other teams run MULTIPLE offenses and formations during a game but OUr players can only run or are only coached ONE?
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Offense
   Posted: 9/22/2014 1:04:42 PM 
Find me one OCF! Find me a team that has as their offense the Pistol or spread that goes under center.

Here is a variety of resources on the NFL's view of the offense, all these mention the fact that these college offenses do not go under center:

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Can-QBs-from-the-spre...

http://espn.go.com/high-school/football/great-state-debat...

http://www.onefootdown.com/2012/8/14/3240617/notre-dame-o...

The examples are endless! Teams that run the spread or the pistole do NOT have an under center repertoire of plays, not even a kill the clock formation.

Last Edited: 9/22/2014 1:12:46 PM by BillyTheCat
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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: Offense
   Posted: 9/22/2014 1:26:28 PM 
Billy, I can't list teams specifically ight now 'cause I am too old to rattle them off. But I can guarantee you I have seen it this year. Maybe even during the UC-Miami game one of them did it. I can assure you, I have seen teams running multiple formations in one game this year and I will start to make a list just for you to prove the point.
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TheBobcatBandit
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  Message Not Read  RE: Offense
   Posted: 9/22/2014 1:36:00 PM 
It's not that our offence is old or doesn't work. It's that we don't run it right or the same way we did 3/4 years ago. Until we call more qb runs they are going to keep stuffing the run. You can't run a read option and not ever run it with the qb. I don't know if we just aren't running the read option or that the qb's are screwing up the reads. The formation is fine. The system is fine. It's the play calling or qb's not knowing how to read the defense.
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TheBobcatBandit
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  Message Not Read  RE: Offense
   Posted: 9/22/2014 1:39:59 PM 

2011 running stats

NAME CAR YDS AVG LONG TD
Donte Harden 187 986 5.3 81 2
Tyler Tettleton 166 658 4 48 10
Beau Blankenship 93 462 5 48 4
Ryan Boykin 104 430 4.1 33 1
Kyle Snyder 13 80 6.2 16 0
LaVon Brazill 5 73 14.6 67 1
Phil Bates 16 69 4.3 25 0
Paul Hershey 1 13 13 13 0
Devin Favors 3 11 3.7 7 0
Riley Dunlop 1 8 8 8 0
Totals 599 2750 4.6 81 18

 

2013 running stats

NAME CAR YDS AVG LONG TD
Beau Blankenship 204 910 4.5 53 5
Ryan Boykin 103 399 3.9 17 7
Daz'mond Patterson 38 211 5.6 32 2
Tim Edmond 31 108 3.5 12 0
Derrius Vick 30 67 2.2 20 1
JD Sprague 5 33 6.6 18 1
Tyler Tettleton 43 24 0.6 31 0
Donte Foster 1 5 5 5 0
Chase Cochran 1 4 4 4 0
Totals 462 1742 3.8 53 16


Who can spot the difference?

http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/stats/_/id/195/y...







 
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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: Offense
   Posted: 9/22/2014 2:15:37 PM 
Following is a link to a 2010 listing. Interesting read and you can draw your own conclusions.

http://www.pastapadre.com/2010/06/18/ncaa-football-11-tea...

My own conclusion is why do so few teams run this offrense?


Last Edited: 9/22/2014 2:18:11 PM by Casper71
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Offense
   Posted: 9/22/2014 3:09:22 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Find me one OCF! Find me a team that has as their offense the Pistol or spread that goes under center......

http://www.onefootdown.com/2012/8/14/3240617/notre-dame-o...

The examples are endless! Teams that run the spread or the pistole do NOT have an under center repertoire of plays, not even a kill the clock formation.


Interestingly your links did just that, provided one example:
onefootdown.com wrote:
Today, the Notre Dame offense resembles more of a spread/pro-style hybrid. The quarterback still operates out of the shotgun most of time, there are still four and five receiver sets, and the quarterback is still expected to run the ball, but the quarterback also takes snaps under center occasionally and tight ends are sometimes used as fullbacks.


I agree that Ohio is not usual in not ever running from under center. That doesn't mean they don't use a variety of formations; they do. One thing that is different this year, unfortunately, has been the lack of healthy tight ends. With only one, Mangen, it hasn't been possible to run the 2-3 tight end sets that Ohio used in the past few years. In the last game, though, I saw Davon Henry playing, and the one before I think Mason Morgan was in. Maybe as we get to the MAC games we'll see more of that.

Interestingly, rather that the Pro-set migrating back to college, now we're seeing the Pistol making it's way into the NFL:
http://www.sbnation.com/longform/2012/12/27/3792740/pisto...

Last Edited: 9/22/2014 3:18:35 PM by L.C.

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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Offense
   Posted: 9/22/2014 3:29:42 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
. . . NO team that runs this offense goes under center. .
This is simply not true.


But I'm with OCF. I've absolutely seen a college team go under center this year even though their main approach is pistol.

But what others do isn't the issue. The issue is what we do don't work. I ranted a couple years back that Oregon (in big bowl game.. vs Bama??) ran a one-back set (fast but lightweight guy) at the goal line. No way it was gonna work. It didn't work until they ran a sorta cross-buck, qb hand the ball off forward to the running back play. (Not describing it well, but it was an unusual/wrinkle thing).

THe point is that in tough short yardage situations (goal line...3rd or 4th and short in middle of field) our approach is lousy. Try two back sets and/or go under center and/or add an extra offensive lineperson.

THINK. SHOW SOME CREATIVITY. FREAKING REACT TO CIRCUMSTANCES. WHEN OUR APPROACH AIN'T WORKING, TRY SOMETHING ELSE.



orstartdazandrunhimupmiddleagain.

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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: Offense
   Posted: 9/22/2014 3:38:20 PM 
Great points made on this...one thing I think we all know is the plays are really basically the same. The schemes/formations they come out of are different though.

I bet even L.C. agrees with me that it starts with the BIGGS up front and PLAYMAKERS at QB and outside! You give me that and I can run any offense I want and get results.

Back to teams that run "multiple" offenses, I now recall it was tOSwho a couple of years back against OUr bobcats where their QB was both in direct snap territory and shot gun like.
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100%Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Offense
   Posted: 9/22/2014 3:38:44 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Casper71 wrote:
Bingo Monroe!

And, has anyone else noticed that a whole lot of teams are showing various alignments and adjusting to down and yardage situations in their offenses? I've seen teams in the I, under center in a pro set up ,in a wildcat, with one and/or two backs and other formations in the SAME game. I just think OUr offense is getting a bit old. Maybe someone needs one of those sabbaticals? One thing is for sure in college football, if you don't adjust you fall behind.


If there's one thing Frank has shown throughout his career, it is that he can adjust. His OHIO teams from Day 1 of his tenure here have run a much different offense than his Nebraska teams, and then he made the big change to the no huddle. I will agree that I don't understand why we don't go under center on first-and-inches type situations. That one puzzles me.


NO team that runs this offense goes under center. The most important part of the offensive game is the the snap! And the under center snap is so different than the shot gun snap. The snap is a skill that must be perfected and not just used indiscriminately. I agree that I'd like to see the under center snap in short yardage and goal-line situations, either at the goal line or coming out of the goal line. However, I do understand why they do not do this.


I'm definitely no expert on football scheming, but I will say this: an FBS team that can't line up and run a QB sneak from under center to pick up 6" or to avoid a safety from your own goal line is really sad. I was shocked they ran from the pistol on the last play of the first half on Saturday night. You just kept the opponent out of the end zone on 4th and goal, you need to run one play and simply not lose a yard or have a turnover...and you run from the pistol with the back getting the ball in his own end zone? I know you'd like to think that "all he needs is a no gainer" but my gosh, why take the chance in that situation?
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MedinaCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Offense
   Posted: 9/22/2014 4:23:40 PM 
I'm definitely no expert on football scheming either, but I know we scored 36(and won) this past weekend, 22 more than last week and 33 more than the week prior. I was more concerned the defense could not get off the field and allowed too many 3rd and 4th down conversions.
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