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Topic: Big East: Why not us?

Topic: Big East: Why not us?

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OU-Barker
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Big East: Why not us?

Posted: 9/17/2012 2:15:35 AM

Recent CBSsports.com article cited OHIO as a possible Big East expansion team. They also listed BYU, UMASS, NOVA, and UNLV.

Quote:

Ohio -- The Bobcats are an emerging program in football and basketball. In the 2012 NCAA Tournament, Ohio defeated Michigan and South Florida to earn a spot in the Sweet 16. In St. Louis, the Bobcats were a Walter Offut buzzer-beater away from a shocking upset of North Carolina. In football, Ohio defeated Utah State in the Idaho Bowl last season and already has a win over Penn State this year.

www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/college-football-rapidreports/20167831/how-will-the-big-east-respond-to-the-departure-of-notre-dame

Doc Bobcat
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RE: Big East: Why not us?

Posted: 9/17/2012 7:33:25 AM

Peden.

Size matters.

brucecuth
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RE: Big East: Why not us?

Posted: 9/17/2012 9:10:35 AM

and Athens. Size matters again.

Ozcat
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RE: Big East: Why not us?

Posted: 9/17/2012 9:32:03 AM

If the Big East came calling, I'd hope it'd show up on caller ID and Schaus could choose to not take the call.

That conference is falling apart. If the big dogs decide to further expand, the Big East is likely losing Louisville, Cincinnati, and Rutgers, and I'd guess Boise would be attractive as well.

I'd rather have the top athletic budget in the MAC, along with the strongest support from our administration in the MAC, and be able to compete for the championship EVERY season than to join the Big East and restart the arms race all over . . .

Casper71
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RE: Big East: Why not us?

Posted: 9/17/2012 9:50:21 AM

The debate (haha) rages on. Way back when, my mom said it to me, I've said it here before and I'll say it again: "you are judged by the company you keep". Right now the MAC as it is currently composed is rated the WORST football Conference in whatever they now call this division (per Sagrin). The Sun Belt AND other already "falling apart" conferences are ranked higher than the MAC. So, it seems to me we need to change the company we keep. Maybe we could take a couple of our better friends with us. Or, If you really don't like CUSA or the Big East, maybe it's now time to jettison someone and make this conference at least respectable.

Ozcat
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RE: Big East: Why not us?

Posted: 9/17/2012 9:57:16 AM

Casper71 wrote:

Maybe we could take a couple of our better friends with us. Or, If you really don't like CUSA or the Big East, maybe it's now time to jettison someone and make this conference at least respectable.

I'm not sure where this argument that the MAC doesn't get any respect comes from? Marshall was ranked numerous times when in the MAC. And Miami, NIU, and Ball State all had stints in the polls during their respective runs. At least in football, the MAC is a decent enough conference to garner you press. Most of the figureheads give MAC football props as well (including the mothership from time to time).

Now, in basketball, it's an entirely different argument.

CATman
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RE: Big East: Why not us?

Posted: 9/17/2012 10:55:09 AM

If the additional teams are BYU, UMASS, NOVA, and UNLV., umm....no thanks.

While everyone dreams of Ohio taking a step up (in terms of conference affiliation) it would be a pretty big risk to leave a stable league like the MAC for one that may be disintegrating. Joining a patchwork Big East, that could possibly lose its' AQ status in the BCS, could end up being a disaster.

In terms of Peden's size, I'm not sure that's the main issue. Stadium capacities are below:

Rutgers - 52,000
Cincinnati - 35,0000
Louisville - 55,000
UConn - 40,000
Temple (NFL) - 68,000
Syracuse - 49,000
South Florida (NFL) - 66,000
Pittsburgh (NFL) - 65,000

Peden could get to 35,000 pretty easily (ala Cinci) but market size seems to be the biggest hurdle. Not sure how often the Cats would fill a stadium that large? Obviously an upgrade in conference competition would help but given Athen's proximity in the state and it's rather meager population, it could be a stretch.

My concerns for basketball (aside from taking some lumps early on) are far fewer. We have an appropriate arena and we could draw from a very talent rich state. It's also a sport where 1-2 players can carry a roster.

I wonder what the financials would be though? Would the revenue associated with joining the Big East offset all the additional travel costs? My first thought would be I doubt it.

Last Edited: 9/17/2012 11:05:00 AM by CATman

My high school basketball coach had an old saying.....There are two things that don't last: Dogs that chase cars and teams that don't make free-throws.

giacomo
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RE: Big East: Why not us?

Posted: 9/17/2012 11:22:40 AM

Remember when UNLV was a national power in basketball? The rest of that conference was dog meat and that didn't stop them from winning on the national stage. We are just fine where we are for many reasons, but money and market size are the biggest.

SouthernCat
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RE: Big East: Why not us?

Posted: 9/17/2012 11:24:05 AM

The Optimist
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RE: Big East: Why not us?

Posted: 9/17/2012 11:27:15 AM

Big East has some huge +'s and -'s... If I wasn't scared it would completely collapse, I would definitely say go for it. I still might go for it if I understood the TV deals a little more ($$$). For everything the MAC is not, it is stable, and with the current football setup it really isn't terrible playing a joke schedule if you are on top of a non-AQ conference. I don't believe the playoff is quite as good, but I'm not sure. Basketball is an entirely different animal. I have always thought we could compete in hoops... I only recently became a true believer that Frank could literally take us anywhere. Our setup right now isn't that bad. Look at our schedule the next couple years, beyond this year I just don't see many loses....

Last Edited: 9/17/2012 11:27:38 AM by The Optimist

I've seen crazier things happen.

Jeff McKinney
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RE: Big East: Why not us?

Posted: 9/17/2012 11:57:54 AM

If Ohio was not seriously considered for this new CUSA-Mountain West mishmash, then what makes anyone think Ohio would be seriously considered by the Big East?

As others have posted...money and media markets are huge barriers to moving up in conference affiliation.

fedale
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RE: Big East: Why not us?

Posted: 9/17/2012 12:04:23 PM

I'm sorry, but ECU, Southern Miss, and I'd even venture to say Marshall are all higher on the waiting list to the BE than Ohio.

We are... Marshall!

ou79
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RE: Big East: Why not us?

Posted: 9/17/2012 1:34:07 PM

I agree with Casper. We could possibly go 13-0 and not get a sniff regarding a BCS Bowl. As for the finances regarding the Big (L)east, I think I read that they paid around $5 million in revenue sharing per team last year. At least that was the propaganda WVU was putting out as they were leaving for the Big XII where they would be getting more like $20 million if I remember correctly.

If not the Big (L)east, something needs to be done or we will always be sitting on the outside looking in. Oh, and why all the stability in the MAC, because other than UMass who is trying to move-up on football, no one but teams from the FCS want in this league. As someone pointed out earlier, we are the WORST conference in FBS football.

OU-Barker
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RE: Big East: Why not us?

Posted: 9/17/2012 2:05:49 PM

fedale wrote:

I'm sorry, but ECU, Southern Miss, and I'd even venture to say Marshall are all higher on the waiting list to the BE than Ohio.

You do have to put into perspective the other sports. Basketball would give us a leg up on a few of those schools you listed.

Jeff McKinney
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RE: Big East: Why not us?

Posted: 9/17/2012 2:12:57 PM

Not that it means that much, but the MAC most seasons is rated above the Sun Belt.

Gallia Cat
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RE: Big East: Why not us?

Posted: 9/17/2012 3:18:01 PM

brucecuth wrote:

and Athens. Size matters again.

I don't buy the Athens matters not when you carry the states name and there is not a direction tied to it. As an example. If the Big 12 (again just an example) decided they were going to invite Ohio to join to set up WVU up with a natural rivalry, Ohio would become the #2 collge property in the state within a couple years.

AudioCat'13
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RE: Big East: Why not us?

Posted: 9/17/2012 3:22:13 PM

I honestly feel the MAC isn't that bad, yes the $$$ is a lot lower, and the bowls are meh, but just hear me out.... Other then a few notoriously under achievers (EMU, CMU, UB, UA) the MAC is fairly solid. Anybody can knock off anybody as we saw last year with UB, BSU, and NIU. We all beat up on each other and going through MAC play is like running a gauntlet. The MAC isn't gaining much respect I feel due to a lack of "marquee" wins in OOC play and the lack of a Boise like team that dominates the conference. With that said, would I want Ohio in a different conference? Sure, if the conference was a good fit and financially made sense. But as of right now such a conference doesn't exist except for the Big 10 and thats a snowballs chance (not advocating we contact Big 10, just making a point), so I say stay put and make the MAC the best non AQ conference there is. After all the MAC went 4-1 in the post season. There are a lot of positives also, Kent is always a pain in our side, Akron has their own Frank Solich in Bowden, Buffalo and CMU have had past success, the only two question marks are UMass and Eastern. I think UMass gets a pass because they are in transition and if the Big East calls they are gone, and Eastern is well, Eastern. So I feel that Ohio should instead of jumping ship, we should try and make the MAC better overall.

Doc Bobcat
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RE: Big East: Why not us?

Posted: 9/17/2012 3:22:25 PM

Gallia Cat wrote:

brucecuth wrote:

and Athens. Size matters again.

Yeah Penn State and Va Tech are other examples.

Never been to Penn State but the Va Tech town looks smaller than Athens.

Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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RE: Big East: Why not us?

Posted: 9/17/2012 3:25:46 PM

I would think you'd have to be willing to play a few home games in Cleveland or Cincinnati for a decade or so while you saved up the money to do MAJOR renovations to Peden to make this happen. You'd have to add at least 15,000 seats to Peden.

For basketball, it would be a slam dunk, though. UConn, Georgetown and UC in the Convo for conference games? Yes, please.

Last Edited: 9/17/2012 3:29:07 PM by Brian Smith (No, not that one)

Doc Bobcat
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RE: Big East: Why not us?

Posted: 9/17/2012 3:28:31 PM

Brian Smith wrote:

I would think you'd have to be willing to play a few home games in Cleveland or Cincinnati to make this happen.

For basketball, it would be a slam dunk, though. UConn and UC in the Convo for conference games? Wow.

I'd say Cleveland or Columbus.

Not sure of the numbers but even when I was in school back in the 60's it seemed like everyone was from Cleveland or Columbus. The shoe may be out but Crew stadium might be sweet in c-bus.

Cat4ever
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RE: Big East: Why not us?

Posted: 9/17/2012 3:41:15 PM

Doc Bobcat wrote:

Gallia Cat wrote:

brucecuth wrote:

and Athens. Size matters again.

Yeah Penn State and Va Tech are other examples.

Never been to Penn State but the Va Tech town looks smaller than Athens.

Bingo, Doc! It isn't the locale's media-market size that matters; it's the fan base. There are numerous "small market" teams that are bigtime on the radar of the sports programming media. Penn State and Va. Tech are just two examples. But their fan base swarms on Saturdays!

The only thing that is a fact is that nothing is a fact.
If this statement is true, it is also false.
--Dr. Donald Horning, circa 1965

KyleWvr13
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RE: Big East: Why not us?

Posted: 9/17/2012 3:47:54 PM

I don't understand why some people are so committed to the MAC still. The bottom dwellers in the Big East are still better than most of the MAC teams. Even the new additions like SMU, SDSU, and Navy are better than most of the MAC.

My only concern would be if the new revenue costs from TV deals and bowl payouts could cover the additional opperating costs. Peden will obviously need to be expanded, but I feel like if we have a plan on paper to renovate and upgrade to 35k+ that is financially feasible within 3 or so years, I don't see why this would be a bad move.

The MAC has nothing left to offer for us. Yeah Miami, Toledo, BGSU and others have seen the top 25 in years past. But look at where they are now? Still in the MAC, still getting terrible bowl bids, still getting lack of press when any MAC team has a good year, and still considered the laughing stock of the Midwest. If we are given the opportunity, It's time to move on people to greener pastures.

Robert Fox
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RE: Big East: Why not us?

Posted: 9/17/2012 4:07:59 PM

It's worth considering the difference between the current Bobcats and past dominant MAC teams that tended to fall back after losing a key QB or coach (ala CMU). Solich seems to have built a program that is designed for the long haul.

Most MAC coaches have used their teams as a stepping stone. Their ambitions are to make the team win--now--then parlay that success into a high-paying gig at an AQ school. Often, the coach succeeds and moves up. Sometimes, they don't get the immediate new job offer, their stud QB graduates, and they are back to finding a new quick fix. Either way, the MAC team they coach for is not getting better as a program. They are just treading water.

Frank has made the entire Ohio football program infinitely better. That kind of success is transparent, even to other conferences that might consider Ohio for membership. I'm not saying OU is about to get an offer to the Big East, but I don't think we can directly compare the Bobcats to past successful MAC programs.

Gallia Cat
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RE: Big East: Why not us?

Posted: 9/17/2012 4:09:17 PM

Doc Bobcat wrote:

Gallia Cat wrote:

brucecuth wrote:

and Athens. Size matters again.

Yeah Penn State and Va Tech are other examples.

Never been to Penn State but the Va Tech town looks smaller than Athens.

Oklahoma, oklahoma state, Mississippi and mississippi state, VA. Tech, oregon state, washington state, Missouri, Alabama, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Texas tech, Florida, Oregon, Virginia, etc.

Having the states name can really help us down the road.

Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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RE: Big East: Why not us?

Posted: 9/17/2012 4:10:51 PM

I think Toledo could've made the move to C-USA with Marshall. Larger media market, a string of success from Pinkel to Amstutz to Beckman, a (relatively) larger stadium than a lot of the MAC. It probably would've served Toledo's interests, but I suspect they wanted to stay in the same conference as BG.

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