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Topic: Unaccustomed Consistency

Topic: Unaccustomed Consistency

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Mike Johnson
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Location: North Canton, OH
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Unaccustomed Consistency

Posted: 11/11/2011 10:28:27 PM

I believe I'm in a majority when I say that Frank Solich has done much to earn the respect of Bobcat fans.

Concededly, some say that, yes, he has brought Ohio back to respectability and his teams have won a pair of division titles. But he hasn't guided the Cats to a MAC title or a bowl victory.

I submit there is other, telling evidence of Coach Solich's performance which, I acknowledge, has exceeded my expectations. One such piece of evidence: With Ohio's win over CMU, Ohio is assured of a winning season - its 3rd consecutive winning season.

Would you like to hazard a guess as to how many of the 120 1-A/FBS programs, at season's end, will have recorded 3 consecutive winning seasons the last three years?

To arrive at the answer required only a few minutes of paging through the 2011 Phil Steele's Football Preview in which I log game scores. Of those 120 programs, at this moment, only 21 are assured of having had winning seasons in 2009, 2010, 2011.

21 others could achieve that feat, but some of them are long-shots, having to win 2 or more of their remaining games. In fact, Fresno at 3-6 with 4 games remaining (a 13-game schedule because of an away game at Hawaii) must win out to make it winning seasons in 2009, 2010 and 2011.

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TWT
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Location: Alexandria, VA
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RE: Unaccustomed Consistency

Posted: 11/11/2011 11:06:52 PM

Its the first time we've had 3 seasons with 7+ wins in a row since the early 1930's under Don Peden. Ohio wins its 8th game and it will be 3 years in a row with 8+ wins and the first time that has EVER happened.

Last Edited: 11/11/2011 11:07:41 PM by TWT

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

AZBobcat
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RE: Unaccustomed Consistency

Posted: 11/11/2011 11:31:04 PM

Frank hasn't singlehandedly turned us into Boise State like most of us probably hoped in our wildest dreams, but Ohio's been near the top of the MAC more often than not, and pretty much always competitive. Perfect? No, but as someone who was a student during the Knorr era, I'll certainly take it!

MonroeClassmate
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RE: Unaccustomed Consistency

Posted: 11/12/2011 12:53:40 AM

....and a muffed punt, blown call and dropped pass away from ending a string dating back to Oberlin--the big one that got away.

Pataskala
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RE: Unaccustomed Consistency

Posted: 11/12/2011 10:17:09 AM

Because the OOC schedule is a matter of conjecture, I like to look at how Solich's program has fared in the MAC. This year makes three straight seasons and five of the last six with at least a .500 record in the MAC. Two more wins, and it will be three straight with 6+ wins. As I recall, Grobe had five straight with 5+, but got to 6 only twice. I think Solich's primary goal when he was hired was to make the Cats consistently competitive in the MAC, and he has certainly done that. Now, he has taken them to the level of being consistently a front-runner in the division. This not only shows in the standings, but also in the respect that this program gets in the press and on other fan boards. Others think of Ohio as one of the best in the MAC. He has made the program a model for other MAC-level programs to attain success.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

TWT
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RE: Unaccustomed Consistency

Posted: 11/12/2011 7:30:10 PM

The media has the most respect for the programs at Temple and Toledo because they've played and beaten some bigger names and regularly have the top recruiting classes. At this point Frank has definitely done more for the program than what Jim Grobe ever did and Grobe did a very nice job at the time for a hopeless program. Frank goes 11-3 this season with a MAC Championship and bowl win I would argue that he's accomplished more than Bill Hess. Hess never won 11 games at Ohio or a bowl game. Frank's winning percentage at Ohio is pretty close if not better than Hess over his tenure. Beyond this Hess inherited a fairly solid Ohio program which after his first few seasons was fairly unremarkable, 1968 aside. Frank has built the program at all units beyond anything Hess accomplished. Frank after this season would have 3 MAC East Championships in 7 seasons which compares favorably with Hess and his 2 MAC Championships through year 7 playing in a MAC with only 7 teams (Western, Toledo, BG, Miami, Kent, Ohio, Marshall). Next year if Frank can get past Penn State with T2 returning and Xavier and Neal returning on defense he has an excellent shot at going undefeated.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

Pataskala
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RE: Unaccustomed Consistency

Posted: 11/12/2011 8:14:28 PM

Uncle Wes wrote:

Out of fairness to Hess, the NCAA didn't allow 11-game regular season schedules until the last four or five years of his career. They had 9-game schedules until the early '60s and 10-game schedules from there until the early '70s. Despite that, his teams won ten games in 1960 and 1968.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

Ziegler79
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RE: Unaccustomed Consistency

Posted: 11/12/2011 8:16:16 PM

Frank has a done a great job - we lucked out with a guy that is a very good and under-appreciated coach who was in the late stages of his career and was willing to build our program without looking to move on elsewhere. I hope even better days are yet to come where we can step up and beat teams like Rutgers, reach the Top 25, win a conference championship and a bowl game.

TWT
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RE: Unaccustomed Consistency

Posted: 11/12/2011 8:24:57 PM

Pataskala wrote:

Uncle Wes wrote:

Hess won 10 in 1960 with Xavier, Dayton, Boston University and Southern Illinois on the schedule. In 1968 he won 10 games with William & Mary, Dayton and Richmond on the schedule. In those early Hess years he relied on 2-3 against non-FBS competition. Frank is winning 8-9 games a year with only 1 FCS school on the schedule a more impressive feat, IMO.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

OhioCatFan
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RE: Unaccustomed Consistency

Posted: 11/12/2011 10:28:39 PM

Uncle Wes, there was no such thing as FCS in Hess' day. That split in Div. 1 (into Div 1-A and Div. 1-AA) occurred in 1978, the year that Kappes took over as interim coach due to the death of Bill Hess. For a few years before up through 1960 we were in the "college division" but we went into the "university division" in 1961. There were no divisions in college football prior to around 1940 (I previously looked this up and posted it in another thread, and I don't now remember the exact year).

Edit: In 1960 Ohio was in the College Division but graduated to the University Division the next year. We had actually not been in the College Division that long because of the strange way this was reckoned in those days. For awhile it was almost on a year-to-year basis depending on your schedule.

Last Edited: 11/12/2011 10:41:17 PM by OhioCatFan

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

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TWT
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RE: Unaccustomed Consistency

Posted: 11/12/2011 10:36:55 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

True but the MAC did not play at the full scholarship level at that time and those schedules played in 1960 and 1968 didn't aside from UC have any current BCS schools on them. in 1970 Hess upgraded the schedule and from that point on Ohio's winning percentage dropped significantly. Frank has a better winning percentage than Hess including all seasons but if you take 1970 on when Ohio starts to play a modern schedule Frank fares far better than what Hess did 1970-77. As Ohio is ascended from the DIII level schedules played by Don Peden in the Ohio Athletic Conference to the FCSish schedules in the 50's-60's to the modern non-AQ schedules winning percentage for Ohio has dropped off.....until the advent of Frank.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

OhioCatFan
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RE: Unaccustomed Consistency

Posted: 11/12/2011 10:51:16 PM

You can't take current FBS schools and extrapolate that back to the days of Don Peden. Some schools like Cincinnati were fairly weak while others like Western Reserve University were much stronger. These are but two examples. Also, Peden played and beat schools like Indiana, Illinois (twice) and others that you would recognize as major colleges today. Perhaps, the best year to illustrate the futility of trying the type of extrapolation you have been attempting was 1938. That year -- when Peden's Bobcats won the Buckeye Conference -- Ohio beat Illinois 6-0 but lost to Western Reserve 26-14 and Dayton 13-0.

Edit: Yes, the MAC had a self-imposed limitation of 85 scholarship when the rest of D-1 was at 105. This makes Hess' victories over major college teams in those years even more of an accomplishment. Kind of like winning a fight with one hand tied behind your back. MAC Trivia: If it hadn't been for this self-imposed scholarship limit Cincinnati would have rejoined the MAC in 1969 and Louisville would have joined for the first time. It was a package deal. This agreement was in all the papers at the time, and was all ready to go but the MAC Daddies at the last minute decided not to raise the scholarship limit to 105 and deal feel through.

Last Edited: 11/13/2011 11:01:54 AM by OhioCatFan

TWT
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RE: Unaccustomed Consistency

Posted: 11/12/2011 11:07:33 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Wes, Wes, Wes,

You can't take current FBS schools and extrapolate that back to the days of Don Peden. Some schools like Cincinnati were fairly weak while others like Western Reserve University were much stronger. These are but two examples. Also, Peden played and beat schools like Indiana, Illinois (twice) and others that you would recognize as major colleges today. Perhaps, the best year to illustrate the futility of trying the type of extrapolation you have been attempting was 1938. That year -- when Peden's Bobcats won the Buckeye Conference -- Ohio beat Illinois 6-0 but lost to Western Reserve 26-14 and Dayton 13-0.

I know what I'm saying is not 100% precise partially because the recruiting was so much different back then and of course the two platoon football era but in the schedules that Peden played against Ohio Wesleyan and Wittenburg were a lot easier to tackle then what Hess was up against in the early MAC era and certainly trying to win a 13 team football conference like Solich is. Ohio ruled the Buckeye Conference, was competitive in the early 7 team MAC era, and slumped in the modern MAC era sans Solich. As the schedules stepped up, the losses piled up.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

TWT
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RE: Unaccustomed Consistency

Posted: 11/13/2011 12:37:05 AM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Edit: Yes, the MAC had a self-imposed limitation of 85 scholarship when the rest of D-1 was at 105. This makes Hess' victories over major college teams in those years even more of an accomplishment. Kind of like winning a fight with one hand tied behind your back. MAC Trivia: If it hadn't been for this self-imposed scholarship limited Cincinnati would have rejoined the MAC in 1969 and Louisville would have joined for the first time. It was a package deal. This agreement was in all the papers at the time, and was all ready to go but the MAC Daddies at the last minute decided not to raise the scholarship limit to 105 and deal feel through.

That was pretty short sighted move on the part of the MAC. Had that deal gone through Eastern and Central probably would have never been let into the conference. I think its fair to say with the scholarship limit and 2-3 schools FCS level schools in the non-conference schedules the level of ball played at Ohio was more college division than major previous to 1970. Frank has the best winning percentage of any coach on a modern Ohio schedule.

2004-2011: Frank Solich 47-39 (.547)
1995-2000 Jim Grobe 31-31 (.500)
1970-1977 Bill Hess 36-47 (.434)

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

OhioCatFan
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RE: Unaccustomed Consistency

Posted: 11/13/2011 11:02:48 AM

OhioCatFan wrote:

OhioCatFan
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RE: Unaccustomed Consistency

Posted: 11/13/2011 11:14:55 AM

Uncle Wes wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Edit: Yes, the MAC had a self-imposed limitation of 85 scholarship when the rest of D-1 was at 105. This makes Hess' victories over major college teams in those years even more of an accomplishment. Kind of like winning a fight with one hand tied behind your back. MAC Trivia: If it hadn't been for this self-imposed scholarship limit Cincinnati would have rejoined the MAC in 1969 and Louisville would have joined for the first time. It was a package deal. This agreement was in all the papers at the time, and was all ready to go but the MAC Daddies at the last minute decided not to raise the scholarship limit to 105 and deal fell through.

Yes, it was extremely short-sighted of the MAC. I remember being extremely angry about it at the time. One day I see big headlines in the Columbus Citizen-Journal "Cincinnati, Louisville to Join MAC." I was elated. A few days later I see headlines saying that the deal fell through because of the scholarship issue. It was a real downer. As I recall the MAC at time included Ohio, Kent State, Bowling Green, Toledo, Miami and Western Michigan. Marshall had just been kicked out, or was in the process of being kicked out. You are correct that it was shortly after this that all the other directionals started to be added.

Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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RE: Unaccustomed Consistency

Posted: 11/13/2011 12:12:37 PM

I think the very reasons Frank Solich was ushered out of Lincoln are the reasons he's so good in Athens. The things that build up a program aren't flashy, they're often incremental. He built things right, not quickly, here.

Mike Johnson
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Three 8's = winning hand

Posted: 11/20/2011 7:07:15 PM

With the season winding down, I took another trip thru Phil Steele with this question in mind: At this season's end how many of the 120 1-A/FBS programs are assured of having won 8 or more games for the last three consecutive seasons (2009,2010,2011)?

Answer:14. Alabama, LSU, Arkansas, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Virginia Tech, Oregon, Stanford, USC, Boise, TCU, Ohio.

Another 12 have a chance of joining that group: Auburn, Florida, OSU, Iowa, Mizzou, North Carolina, Utah, Pitt, West Virginia, Air Force, Nevada, Temple. To make it, some of those 12 not only need to win out the regular season but also need a bowl victory.

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