BobcatAttack.com - For Fans of Ohio University Sports

Welcome Guest!
Create an Account

site search

about us

advertise with us

help

BobcatAttack.com Message Board

Ohio Football

Topic: Will the NCAA crack down on Penn State?

Topic: Will the NCAA crack down on Penn State?

Author

Message

TWT
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 5,203

Status: Offline

Will the NCAA crack down on Penn State?

Posted: 11/10/2011 1:03:10 AM

ESPN Insider says PSU verbals are looking at options amid the turmoil at Penn State. Most of the BCS schools have their classes filled at this point. Could we see a school like Temple or even Ohio step in and steal a few guys who don't want to deal with the uncertainty. Penn State could get hit with a lack of institutional control from the NCAA once the criminal investigation is finished. The Board of Trustees may decide to deemphasize football with the next coaching hire.

Last Edited: 11/10/2011 3:19:15 PM by TWT

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

Bobcatzblitz
General User

Member Since: 7/21/2010
Post Count: 1,739

Status: Offline

RE: Penn State Verbals?

Posted: 11/10/2011 1:08:50 AM

Maybe a 2-3 star guy..but its a long shot...the other schools will make room for PSU recruits.You can guarantee that

L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 10,498

Status: Offline

RE: Penn State Verbals?

Posted: 11/10/2011 5:10:19 AM

I wouldn't think you'd see anyone change. No one accepting a verbal to PSU probably expected that they would have the same coach by the time they finished anyway.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Pataskala
General User

Member Since: 7/8/2010
Location: At least six feet away from anybody else
Post Count: 9,365

Status: Offline

RE: Penn State Verbals?

Posted: 11/10/2011 7:09:52 AM

L.C. wrote:

I wouldn't think you'd see anyone change. No one accepting a verbal to PSU probably expected that they would have the same coach by the time they finished anyway.

Agreed. Joe Pa announced earlier this year that next year would likely be his last...the first time he had made such a definitive statement. I think the only reason someone would change is if the new coach is a lunatic or a bozo. I don't see that happening. They're going to clean house of anyone remotely involved with all this, so parents will be less concerned.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

TheBikeman
General User

Member Since: 11/27/2010
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Post Count: 91

Status: Offline

RE: Penn State Verbals?

Posted: 11/10/2011 7:37:46 AM

The NCAA has no jurisdiction in the PSU mess.

mf279801
General User

Member Since: 8/6/2010
Location: Newark, DE
Post Count: 2,472

Status: Offline

RE: Penn State Verbals?

Posted: 11/10/2011 8:42:11 AM

Lack of institutional control and other NCAA violations have to do with very specific recruiting, player benefit, and academic issues. NCAA sanctions (either institutional or individual) have nothing to do with criminality (or alleged criminality).

OhioCatFan
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,771

Status: Offline

RE: Penn State Verbals?

Posted: 11/10/2011 10:18:52 AM

SonnyDrysdale wrote:

The NCAA has no jurisdiction in the PSU mess.

Others are seeing it differently:

Mac Engel

Key Quote: When a president of the university has to resign over a scandal involving the athletic department it is not a lack of institutional control. This is a collapse of institutional control.

Infamous Bleacher Report

Key Quote: Now, thanks to the PSU trustees, Penn State can at least hope for a lighter sentence, though the NCAA still will—and should—throw the book at the Nittany Lions' program.

The Daily Caller

Key Quote: When it comes to NCAA investigations of big-time athletics, the four words no university president wants to hear are “loss of institutional control.” And while the NCAA most often simply deals with situations where schools are covering up violations of NCAA rules, we’ve rarely had a situation where a member institution was faced with charges of actual criminal malfeasance. If there’s any school where there’s been a loss of institutional control — in addition to a complete abdication of moral responsibility — it’s Penn State. In short, NCAA President Mark Emmert is going to be under considerable pressure to come down hard on the school. In the end, he may have no choice but to unleash the dreaded “death penalty,” the same punishment that was meted out to SMU’s football program in the late 1980s.

I'm not saying exactly where I would come down on this matter; I'm just saying that this subject is one that's open for debate.

Last Edited: 11/10/2011 10:21:13 AM by OhioCatFan

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

mf279801
General User

Member Since: 8/6/2010
Location: Newark, DE
Post Count: 2,472

Status: Offline

RE: Penn State Verbals?

Posted: 11/10/2011 11:08:00 AM

Ah yes, the Bleacher Report is a golden source.

Outrage does not equal jurisdiction or a NCAA rules violation, particularly not when we're talking about a retired (at the time) coach. The NCAA rules do not cover this, therefore they cannot issue sanctions based on it, absent some recruiting/player benefit/academic scandal that no one else in the english speaking world has heard about. Its the same reason that the SEC doesn't prosecute murder or rape, even if its carried out by a floor trader: institutes/organizations have rules and proscribed penalties for violations of those specific rules. If the NCAA starts getting involved in punishing behavior that isn't in their actual area of enforcement (benefits, academics, recruitment of potential athletes) look for all hell to break lose.

EDIT: Lack of institutional control (used by the NCAA) is not a phrase describing what's going on at the university, its a specific charge of wrong-doing.

EDIT2: Thanks to the copyeditor/court-records-watcher in chief PF for catching my use of the incorrect "brake/break". Fixed it.

Last Edited: 11/10/2011 11:20:55 AM by mf279801

PutnamField
General User

Member Since: 9/20/2007
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 303

Status: Offline

RE: Penn State Verbals?

Posted: 11/10/2011 11:14:03 AM

mf279801 wrote:

Come back with your brilliant opinions when you can spell break.

mf279801
General User

Member Since: 8/6/2010
Location: Newark, DE
Post Count: 2,472

Status: Offline

RE: Penn State Verbals?

Posted: 11/10/2011 11:17:41 AM

PutnamField wrote:

mf279801 wrote:

Come back with your brilliant opinions when you can spell break.

Oh heavens me, a typo/wrong word chosen in haste. I am vanquished, done in by your superior copy-editing skills. You got me, I should have spelled BREAK. Thanks for the catch PF. I'll now let you get back to running background checks on our amateur athletes.

PutnamField
General User

Member Since: 9/20/2007
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 303

Status: Offline

RE: Penn State Verbals?

Posted: 11/10/2011 11:28:05 AM

mf279801 wrote:

PutnamField wrote:

mf279801 wrote:

Come back with your brilliant opinions when you can spell break.

Fine, Mr. It-would-have-been-inappropriate-for-Paterno-to-follow-up.

TWT
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 5,203

Status: Offline

RE: Penn State Verbals?

Posted: 11/10/2011 11:41:23 AM

Pataskala wrote:

L.C. wrote:

I wouldn't think you'd see anyone change. No one accepting a verbal to PSU probably expected that they would have the same coach by the time they finished anyway.

The question is not who is the next coach at Penn State. Its would you want to be associated with an institution that harbored a high profile pedophile for 40 years. If Penn State had any sense of decency they would bulldoze that football facility where the incidents happened.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

PutnamField
General User

Member Since: 9/20/2007
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 303

Status: Offline

RE: Penn State Verbals?

Posted: 11/10/2011 11:51:04 AM

Or dump Clorox on it from a helicopter.

mf279801
General User

Member Since: 8/6/2010
Location: Newark, DE
Post Count: 2,472

Status: Offline

RE: Penn State Verbals?

Posted: 11/10/2011 11:59:24 AM

PutnamField wrote:

mf279801 wrote:

PutnamField wrote:

mf279801 wrote:

Come back with your brilliant opinions when you can spell break.

Fine, Mr. It-would-have-been-inappropriate-for-Paterno-to-follow-up.

So you copy edit but don't fact-check your smack-talk? I said it would have been inappropriate (and would have reeked of conflict of interest, considering his long-running working relationship/friendship with Sandusky) for him to be at the McQueary/Curley/Schultz meeting just as it would have been for him to be at a police witness interview with McQueary (in the "Re:Sickening scandal at Penn State" thread, posted at 12:14:11AM, 11/9/2011).

Anyway, I've been trying to find a definition of "loss of institutional control" and have had no luck. I may be wrong on my earlier statement that "loss of institutional control" refers only to academic/recruiting/benefit violations, but I don't think I was. Regardless, I've got to get back to work.

TWT
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 5,203

Status: Offline

RE: Penn State Verbals?

Posted: 11/10/2011 12:18:39 PM

Lack of Institutional control was designed to enforce amateurism not criminal prosecution. Though if you ask the question at this point does Penn State have institutional control what can you respond with? You can't ask the AD he's on trial. By deduction the answer is no because the compliance team for the athletic department is going through criminal prosecution. Prosecution not for personal crimes they committed but for crimes occurring under their athletic leadership. With the NCAA public opinion is an important factor as to how they act on the situation and its looking pretty ugly.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

SouthernCat
General User

Member Since: 1/3/2005
Post Count: 166

Status: Offline

RE: Penn State Verbals?

Posted: 11/10/2011 12:55:42 PM

Many crimes have been committed by athletes and coaches over the years. The NCAA has not punished people for violating public laws. That is up to the individual institution and the legal authority. Did the NCAA punish Baylor for the murder of one player by another? No. They may uncover recruiting violations at some point but do not punish crimes.

L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 10,498

Status: Offline

RE: Penn State Verbals?

Posted: 11/10/2011 1:11:09 PM

SouthernCat wrote:

I agree. The NCAA has a specific set of rules. The NCAA has punishments to use when those rules are broken. Before anyone suggest that the NCAA is going to use enforcement power, it would be useful if they would also cite the specific NCAA rule that has been broken. I'm not an expert on them, so I have no idea if there are any NCAA rules that would cover this. I would hate to think that anyone here would support any jurisdiction arbitrarily using enforcement powers without some specific rule being broken.

Last Edited: 11/10/2011 1:13:07 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

DelBobcat
General User

Member Since: 8/26/2010
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Post Count: 1,135

Status: Offline

RE: Penn State Verbals?

Posted: 11/10/2011 1:26:34 PM

SouthernCat wrote:

Did Baylor cover up that murder for 10 years?

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

SouthernCat
General User

Member Since: 1/3/2005
Post Count: 166

Status: Offline

RE: Penn State Verbals?

Posted: 11/10/2011 1:51:22 PM

Does Penn State gain a recruiting advantage for having a child rapist in the football office?

Last Edited: 11/10/2011 1:52:16 PM by SouthernCat

anorris
General User

Member Since: 7/6/2010
Location: Bristol, CT
Post Count: 2,262

Status: Offline

RE: Penn State Verbals?

Posted: 11/10/2011 1:59:13 PM

Southern is spot on here. NCAA is irrelevant here, as they ought to be.

L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 10,498

Status: Offline

RE: Penn State Verbals?

Posted: 11/10/2011 2:30:58 PM

Southen's point is simple. We each exist under many different legal authorities, with different sets of rules. There are city, county, state, and federal statutes. There are a wide variety of agency rules, such as EPA, SEC, OSHA, etc. We may have occupational rules, for example from a Bar Association, if you are a lawyer. We might also have specific company rules. With each set of rules there is an enforcement power that enforces those rules, and punishments they are authorized to hand out. One of the core premises of our legal system is predictability, and one thing specifically forbidden is ex post facto changes - where the rules are changed after the fact.

If there are NCAA rules in place that apply to this case, they should be applied. If there aren't existing rules that apply, then the NCAA has no business creating new ones after the facts are in. Since I don't know what NCAA rules are out there, I have no idea if they should be taking action, or not. All I'm saying is, if you think they should be taking action, you should be citing what rule you think was broken. It isn't constructive to say "oh, yeah, give them the death penalty" without supplying a basis, any more than it would be to say "arrest all the Occupy Wall Street people", without supplying what the basis would be for such an arrest.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

OhioCatFan
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,771

Status: Offline

RE: Penn State Verbals?

Posted: 11/10/2011 2:44:00 PM

Mark Emmert, NCAA President, is apparently considering possible future NCAA penalties depending on what the facts reveal as the legal case moves forward. Here's a statement that he just released:

"Regarding the ongoing Penn State criminal investigation, the NCAA is actively monitoring developments and assessing appropriate steps moving forward. The NCAA will defer in the immediate term to law enforcement officials since this situation involved alleged crimes. As the facts are established through the justice system, we will determine whether Association bylaws have been violated and act accordingly. To be clear, civil and criminal law will always take precedence over Association rules." [Emphasis mine]

Last Edited: 11/10/2011 2:48:05 PM by OhioCatFan

L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 10,498

Status: Offline

RE: Penn State Verbals?

Posted: 11/10/2011 3:01:48 PM

That's exactly what they should do - "determine whether Association bylaws have been violated and act accordingly."

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

TWT
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 5,203

Status: Offline

RE: Penn State Verbals?

Posted: 11/10/2011 3:24:04 PM

L.C. wrote:

That's exactly what they should do - "determine whether Association bylaws have been violated and act accordingly."

This is what some of our posters are arguing is that a collapse of institutional control has to reverberate back to the NCAA statutes. How? I don't think any of us are experts in NCAA law to do any better then take a vauge stab at this and that is what I've done.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

SouthernCat
General User

Member Since: 1/3/2005
Post Count: 166

Status: Offline

RE: Penn State Verbals?

Posted: 11/10/2011 3:57:40 PM

http://ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/Enforcement/Resources/FAQ

The NCAA bylaws deal with recruiting and amateurism. They do not enforce laws. That is for the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania to enforce. Loss of institutional control deals with lack of compliance with NCAA rules. The NCAA has no rules against child molestation or failure to act in legal situations. The death penalty is only for repeat offenders with major violations.

Showing Replies:	1 - 25 of 32 Posts
Jump to Page:	1 \| 2 Next >

View Other 'Ohio Football' Topics

There are 363 Active Visitors on BobcatAttack.com

357 Guests
6 Registered Users:
	arnottky, Jonesy1017, FJC31, Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame, NashvilleKat, BobcatBurner

There are no other users looking at this page.