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Topic: More gloom and doom

Topic: More gloom and doom

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Recovering Journalist
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Member Since: 8/17/2010
Location: Cleveland, OH
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More gloom and doom

Posted: 10/13/2011 11:42:12 AM

Budgets and the future of college athletics discussed in today's Plain Dealer. Ohio plays a starring role.

Bobcat Love
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RE: More gloom and doom

Posted: 10/13/2011 12:39:48 PM

I wonder if Ohio State would have the same financial equation if they didn't have all the money from people that actually attended MAC schools and never took a class in Columbus. How many OU Alums do you see prior to the OU/OSU game wearing scarlet and gray? The answer is plenty and it is disgusting. Mindless jerkoffs. Same goes for BG/Toledo/Akron/Miami/ETC.

My guess is you would see a greatly flattened pyramid if we were just able to keep the money in-house instead of flowing up 33 to C-bus.

I give Ohio State credit. They really did a great job on the num-skulls who grew up in Ohio. The propaganda you got since birth was not only effective, it was long lasting.

I have said for many many many years that this is our biggest shortcoming, and will have the greatest impact (negative) on Ohio Athletics for years to come. We simply must find a way to keep that money in house.

Last Edited: 10/13/2011 12:41:27 PM by Bobcat Love

Recovering Journalist
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Location: Cleveland, OH
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RE: More gloom and doom

Posted: 10/13/2011 1:23:39 PM

Love, you make some spectacular points. Like most Ohioans, I grew up thinking the only college team in Ohio was in Columbus. Unlike many of my peers, that allegiance ended when I enrolled at another school. Like many on this board, I've grown more and more militant in my loathing of Ohio State. I swear I saw thousands of our own students and alumni at Ohio Stadium watching their own school play while actually wearing a "cute" combination of Bobcat and Bucknut paraphernalia. Even more pathetic and inexcusable than the missed clipping penalty in 2008.

Alan Swank
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: More gloom and doom

Posted: 10/13/2011 2:06:36 PM

Recovering Journalist wrote:

Budgets and the future of college athletics discussed in today's Plain Dealer. Ohio plays a starring role.

Glad I took the time to read the whole article. This video at the bottom is unbelievable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxNJJgs08Xg&feature=player_embedded

L.C.
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RE: More gloom and doom

Posted: 10/13/2011 3:01:10 PM

What is an interesting number not given in the article is the residual. If you take the Athletic budget, and subtract the total subsidies, you get the unsubsidized portion of the budget, which is presumably the actual revenue of the athletic departements. Those numbers look like this:

Ohio State $122,739,754
Cincinnati $30,020,919
Toledo $10,204,899
Miami $8,483,926
Akron $7,234,562
BGSU $6,262,088
Ohio $4,161,273
Kent $3,820,213
Youngstown State $3,393,405
Wright State $2,449,263
Clevelan State $1,647,420

On the negative side, long term Ohio is going to have a difficult time staying competitive with this large of a disparity in revenue to, say, Toledo. On the bright side, these numbers show that there is some reason to be optimistic that Ohio could significantly increase revenue from where it is, even within the context of the MAC.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

SBH
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RE: More gloom and doom

Posted: 10/13/2011 3:02:12 PM

How many times can they write the same story?

We need a Russ Family type gift ($90-100 million) for an athletic endowment. That would shut up a lot of people for a long time.

Paul Graham
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Location: The Plains, OH
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RE: More gloom and doom

Posted: 10/13/2011 3:37:48 PM

Bobcat Love wrote:

Wonderful. I nearly posted this on my facebook feed but then thought better.

Ted Thompson
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RE: More gloom and doom

Posted: 10/13/2011 3:38:57 PM

I think a more accurate metric I would like to see is what is the spend per student. It looks like the MAC schools get targeted because they fund Athletics through student fees. Is there much difference whether it comes from student fees or tuition? When Wofford visited Ohio a few years ago, I wondered how a school of 1,500 can fund an athletic budget of $11.6M? That per student cost has to be quite more than what MAC students are paying.

Ohio State also gets the benefit of the Big Ten tax which gets levied on every cable and satellite TV subscriber in the state.

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anorris
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RE: More gloom and doom

Posted: 10/13/2011 4:08:41 PM

Ted Thompson wrote:

Ohio State also gets the benefit of the Big Ten tax which gets levied on every cable and satellite TV subscriber in the state.

Not to mention the bass-ackwards BCS revenue "sharing."

Recovering Journalist
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RE: More gloom and doom

Posted: 10/13/2011 4:33:31 PM

Ted, you make a great point about cost per student, and you can parse the numbers a lot to make it look better, but any argument is unlikely to resonate much with critics. The average person hears about skyrocketing tuition at state schools in Ohio and wonder why the money is spent on athletics. Half the readers of the Plain Dealer think there's only one FBS university in the state. Cleveland State plays hoops in front of 1,500 people as the only D1 program in the most populous county in the state, but if Ohio State or a "real" team (like UNC) comes to town, it's a sellout. If every FBS school that isn't scarlet, grey and corrupt lost their FBS status or their entire athletics program, it would mean nothing to most sports fans in the state. The pressure is not going to ease unless costs go down, attendance and interest increase, and/or revenues increase. It's up to those of us who care most to change those things. The calvary is not coming, and even if it did, in the form of regional fans and corporate support, we're in the poorest and most sparsely populated region of the state. Our best chance of increasing fan interest is through alumni and student support.

Ohio69
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RE: More gloom and doom

Posted: 10/13/2011 4:39:04 PM

SBH wrote:

How many times can they write the same story?

This was my first thought. Where's he Plain Dealer been?

These stories have been around for several years now and nothing is changing. So I just shrug them off.

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

Jeff McKinney
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RE: More gloom and doom

Posted: 10/13/2011 5:44:57 PM

The MAC schools simply cannot continue on long-term with such a high percentage of their athletic budgets coming from subsidies. It's not politically viable.

TWT
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RE: More gloom and doom

Posted: 10/13/2011 6:03:25 PM

Ohio69 wrote:

SBH wrote:

How many times can they write the same story?

This was my first thought. Where's he Plain Dealer been?

These stories have been around for several years now and nothing is changing. So I just shrug them off.

The public has a right to know where their money is going. The way McDavis had stated it that maintaining a Division 1 program is just as important as maintaining the campus. I would have to think the amount of students attracted by the athletic department is relatively low but even if its 5% than it probably justifies the students paying 750 a year for it (5% of what they are spending). For alumni giving the impact of a D1 program is far bigger for connecting with the university. The number show that after the subsidy Ohio University makes 4-5 million of income from the athletic department but also the overall economic impact to Athens County is about 1 million per home football game. What else is in that budget, accounting for scholarships to 300 student athletes which is another 5-6 million. There is not that much fat all things relative for administration and to go a step beyond that the University in the last 5 years under McDavis has increased budgets to so the program is more adequately funded. My perception then is the Athletic Department is now adequate and you won't see the kind of geometric increases to the budget over the next 5-10 years. When Marshall was playing in the MAC, our budget was 33% less but now its larger so the school has stepped it up to become more competitive.

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GoCats105
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RE: More gloom and doom

Posted: 10/13/2011 6:43:26 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

Recovering Journalist wrote:

Budgets and the future of college athletics discussed in today's Plain Dealer. Ohio plays a starring role.

Glad I took the time to read the whole article. This video at the bottom is unbelievable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxNJJgs08Xg&feature=player_embedded

That's best video I've seen since they faked the moon landing.

Pataskala
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RE: More gloom and doom

Posted: 10/13/2011 7:41:32 PM

A few weeks ago I heard bowtie mention that O$U needs to get back to its "core mission." Guess that means tearing down a few academic buildings so they can expand the Shoe.

I noticed that only O$U and Cincy don't use student fees to fund athletics. That's because Columbus and Cincinnati have tons of corporations willing to pony up huge sums to foot the bills.

Last Edited: 10/13/2011 7:43:52 PM by Pataskala

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

Zaleski
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RE: More gloom and doom

Posted: 10/13/2011 8:09:03 PM

Slightly off topic, but I agree with the Love about tO$U propaganda effectively brainwashing the entire state (and the country too). I don't know how many people I have had to tell that I did NOT go to tO$U as soon as they heard I went to Ohio.

I also remember when we made our first bowl appearance in 38 years this guy wandered into my office wondering why a FCS school was appearing in a FBS bowl. He also thought that Ohio was a private school. This fellow was from East Liverpool so it wasn't like he'd come to Ohio from somewhere else and just didn't know the score.

I fault the University for some of this. When my wife was younger she went to visit a college fair at her high school in Delaware County. She had never heard of Ohio and there was nobody there representing the school at the fair. All she knew of was the relentless O$U, O$U, O$U that she got from friends, neighbors and her high school counselor. She eventually wound up going to a small private college in West Virginia. Years later when she visited Ohio with me she was amazed at the school and its size and the variety of its programs. She told me she would have been there in a New York minute if she had even known the place existed.

At least here in Texas they share the wealth. UT, A&M, Texas Tech and Houston are all quality programs. Its too bad that the media has allowed tO$U to hog the limelight in Ohio for so many years.

cc-cat
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RE: More gloom and doom

Posted: 10/13/2011 9:30:49 PM

While I do not deny the OSU gorilla in the room, having almost chased an SMU pony girl back to Dallas, I can assure you it is UT and then everybody else in that state. I could argue - WORSE than OSU in Ohio - okay, maybe not, but close.

Last Edited: 10/13/2011 9:32:01 PM by cc-cat

Robert Fox
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RE: More gloom and doom

Posted: 10/14/2011 8:50:01 AM

I disagree with that. I spend a fair amount of time in Texas, and A&M certainly gets its share of publicity. Certainly UT is the gorilla in the room--just as you said--but I don't think it compares with the OSU situation in Ohio. The casual fan in Ohio believes OSU is the only team in the state that is at college football's highest level.

Ted Thompson
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RE: More gloom and doom

Posted: 10/14/2011 9:53:55 AM

Recovering Journalist wrote:

I agree with all of your points I'm just saying a real metric is cost per student. I think it should be a relative comparison. So if you're trying to decide between schools, how much of your money be it tuition or fees, goes to fund athletics. I think we should work to get that number to 0. It's why I spend so much time working on this site (hoping to build support) and give what I can to Bobcat Club and season tickets.

Follow Ohio Football recruiting on the BobcatAttack.com football recruiting database.

perimeterpost
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RE: More gloom and doom

Posted: 10/14/2011 9:55:42 PM

Robert Fox wrote:

I agree about A&M, the Aggies v Longhorns relationship is more like Michigan State and Michigan than O$U and any of the other 7 OH schools. Aggie Alumni are some of the most commited alums you'll ever see, they'd rather die than jump on the Longhorn bandwagon. MAC schools alums? not so much.

One other difference is geography. All 7 OH schools are within 140 miles of cbus, but in TX you have schools like UTEP, a MAC level school, that's over 600 miles from Austin. That's the same distance from OU to the U of Missouri.

With that being said, UT is very very large in TX.

Last Edited: 10/14/2011 9:57:12 PM by perimeterpost

MY STATE. MY TEAM.

Ozcat
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RE: More gloom and doom

Posted: 10/17/2011 4:04:02 PM

Robert Fox wrote:

The casual fan in Ohio believes OSU is the only team in the state that is at college football's highest level.

Under the current format of the BCS, they are the only team in this state at the highest level. Don't give me UC either, who occasionally pretends to be a BCS level program.

perimeterpost wrote:

Your comparison is legit, but in no way can you apply it to MAC schools vs OSU. UT/Texas and UM/MSU play in the same conference and have estabilished and long standing rivalries.

You guys are having this conversation all the time. OU is what it is, and that's what is great about it. Why change? Give me multiple MAC titles in a decade and sprinkle in some bowl wins and I'll be more than content. I don't need BCS appearances to be validated.

Last Edited: 10/17/2011 4:07:01 PM by Ozcat

Bobcatbob
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RE: More gloom and doom

Posted: 10/18/2011 8:42:58 AM

Rather than dwell constantly on what Ohio and the MAC aren't I think it's time for someone to promote what it is and what THAT is is unique. As the PD points out the state of Ohio leads the country in D1 programs. Why isn't this a selling point on it's own? Why isn't there a rotating trophy among the Ohio members of the MAC for "Program of the Year or something? Why don't we make a bigger deal about the in-state rivalries within the MAC instead of the once a year chance for some MAC team to knock off A&M?

The MAC hoop tourney in Cleveland is one great opportunity to showcase this aspect. Another might be an annual football showdown with, say, 2 games of Ohio MAC teams facing each other in PB Stadium or Cleveland Stadium? Yeah, they each lose a home game but the atmosphere could be worth it over time.

On the point of student fees paying for athletics, everybody gets to pay for something they don't want at every stage of their life "for the greater good". McDavis is adamant on this point and I think he's right. You and I are subsidizing private businesses though local tax incentives, questionable priorities in public education through school levies, out of control budgets and entitlements through federal income and payroll taxes, etc. Students might as well get used to the idea because our country is built on the concept.

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