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Topic:  What happened to the turf thread?

Topic:  What happened to the turf thread?
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Scott Woods
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  Message Not Read  What happened to the turf thread?
   Posted: 3/4/2022 8:02:01 PM 
Is Peden getting new turf?

Religion morality and knowledge being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.

So enter that daily thou mayest grow in knowledge wisdom and love. So depart that daily thou mayest better serve thy fellowmen thy country and thy God.
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Urban Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: What happened to the turf thread?
   Posted: 3/4/2022 9:59:38 PM 
The Turf Monster, that lives behind the hill, may have eaten it.

URBAN BOBCAT

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OUcats82
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  Message Not Read  RE: What happened to the turf thread?
   Posted: 3/8/2022 10:26:29 AM 
Does anyone know what number surface is currently down in Peden since it was first installed?


Ohio-The State University
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: What happened to the turf thread?
   Posted: 3/8/2022 11:21:18 AM 
I think the current layer is #2 since the field was lowered and grass was deemed a failure.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: What happened to the turf thread?
   Posted: 3/8/2022 12:27:37 PM 
SBH wrote:
I think the current layer is #2 since the field was lowered and grass was deemed a failure.


As far as I know, this is the second synthetic turf installed at Peden.

As I have posted, one of the things my company does, is design synthetic
turf fields.

For anyone interested:

The original synthetic turf at Peden was Field Turf.

In 2013, that turf was replaced with "AstroTurf".

In 2016, "AstroTurf LLC" lost a Patent Infringement lawsuit to Field Turf.

After losing the suit, the company went Chapter 11.

It was sold to a German Company (Sport Group Holding).

That group has the "AstroTurf" trademark.
They market their product as "AstroTurf" .

I don't know what changes they made to the product to address the Patent Infringement issues.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: What happened to the turf thread?
   Posted: 3/10/2022 9:34:13 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
SBH wrote:
I think the current layer is #2 since the field was lowered and grass was deemed a failure.


As far as I know, this is the second synthetic turf installed at Peden.

As I have posted, one of the things my company does, is design synthetic
turf fields.

For anyone interested:

The original synthetic turf at Peden was Field Turf.

In 2013, that turf was replaced with "AstroTurf".

In 2016, "AstroTurf LLC" lost a Patent Infringement lawsuit to Field Turf.

After losing the suit, the company went Chapter 11.

It was sold to a German Company (Sport Group Holding).

That group has the "AstroTurf" trademark.
They market their product as "AstroTurf" .

I don't know what changes they made to the product to address the Patent Infringement issues.









This will be the third, so yes, we've had two synthetics and as SBH noted the original field was a PAT grass field. But that field was killed by our over qualified turf management team (sarcasm, the field was taken care of by non-professionals).
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IceCat76
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  Message Not Read  RE: What happened to the turf thread?
   Posted: 3/10/2022 9:47:48 AM 
Most of the great soccer pitches in Europe have a combo of synthetic and natural grass (Desso Grassmaster). I've wondered why this isn't done in the US.

Here is an excerpt from Liverpool's website. Chelsea and Barcelona use the same thing.

"Tell us about the hybrid pitch at Anfield…

We are 97 per cent natural grass and three per cent fibre. That makes a huge difference. Football is a winter sport so we’re dealing with the worst of the weather and being in the UK, predominantly the worst of the weather is going to be rain. So to make sure the pitch is drained freely, you build your pitch out of sand. Sand is not stable so to give stability you rely on grass roots and when they fail, you need the fibre that’s stitched in there. There’s a machine that basically stitches these fibres in; they go down 20cm deep into the pitch and they’re 2cm apart. An interesting fact is that if you were to take all of the fibres out of the pitch and stretch them end-to-end, they would wrap around the circumference of the planet."

Last Edited: 3/10/2022 9:48:17 AM by IceCat76
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: What happened to the turf thread?
   Posted: 3/10/2022 9:49:34 AM 
Some additional information:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ohio-university-...

https://www.athensnews.com/news/local/artificial-turf----...

https://www.jburkart.com/projects/ohio-university-peden-f... /
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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: What happened to the turf thread?
   Posted: 3/10/2022 10:16:06 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Some additional information:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ohio-university-...

https://www.athensnews.com/news/local/artificial-turf----...

https://www.jburkart.com/projects/ohio-university-peden-f... /



This quote from the old A-news article is hilarious:

---Yet, arguing the financial merits of turf versus grass misses the main point -- why is OU spending another dime on any sort of Peden surface, particularly when the current field worked fine last year? The university is cutting its departmental budgets and sharply hiking tuition for students, and yet it's pouring hundreds of thousands of dollars into making sure the football field has a pristine surface---

1. Same old A news.
2. Current field worked fine? Anyone who watched a game in 2001 should remember that the new grass playing surface was completely coming apart by midseason (insert metaphor for 2001 football team).

Last Edited: 3/10/2022 10:18:23 AM by Deciduous Forest Cat
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: What happened to the turf thread?
   Posted: 3/10/2022 10:17:37 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Some additional information:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ohio-university-...

https://www.athensnews.com/news/local/artificial-turf----...

https://www.jburkart.com/projects/ohio-university-peden-f... /



The ANews article is a hack job. Turf fields can save money. Over the life of the turf field you do not have to pay for paint, labor for paint, gas for mowers, labor for cutting the grass, fertilizer, aerating, seeding and such. Also, the use of turf cut down on the need for one grass practice field, and has allowed soccer to get lots of work in, while also saving costly maintainace and repairs on their field. Not to mention, the hundreds of hours a year that the rec and intramurals department utilize the facility for things from soccer to flag football tournaments. Turf has also allowed local communities to play some of their games there in emergency situations as well as being utilized by many local youth programs.

You can easily look up the cost to maintain a top quality grass football field. Equipment alone can run upwards of $100k (then maintenance and fuel, plus labor to run the equipment), then around $50k a year in supplies, and labor. Factor in all the extra use you can get out of the fields (as stated above).

Last Edited: 3/10/2022 10:22:09 AM by BillyTheCat
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: What happened to the turf thread?
   Posted: 3/10/2022 11:36:22 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:

The ANews article is a hack job. Turf fields can save money. Over the life of the turf field you do not have to pay for paint, labor for paint, gas for mowers, labor for cutting the grass, fertilizer, aerating, seeding and such. Also, the use of turf cut down on the need for one grass practice field, and has allowed soccer to get lots of work in, while also saving costly maintainace and repairs on their field. Not to mention, the hundreds of hours a year that the rec and intramurals department utilize the facility for things from soccer to flag football tournaments. Turf has also allowed local communities to play some of their games there in emergency situations as well as being utilized by many local youth programs.

You can easily look up the cost to maintain a top quality grass football field. Equipment alone can run upwards of $100k (then maintenance and fuel, plus labor to run the equipment), then around $50k a year in supplies, and labor. Factor in all the extra use you can get out of the fields (as stated above).


Not to bore everyone to death, but:

Synthetic Turf fields DO save money.
In addition to what you point out, irrigation is another significant cost.

When Field Turf first came out, I was asked to do a cost/benefit analysis on a
synthetic v natural turf field.

Turned out, using the most conservative numbers for natural turf installation and maintenance and shortest lifespan for synthetic turf, the "break even" point for synthetic turf was about 5 years.

The other benefits of synthetic turf include:

1.It can be used 365 days a year.

2.You can use it immediately after it rains.

3.When the turf eventually wears out, only the "mat" and infill have to be replaced.

4.Any damage, especially from "non-authorized" cleats, can be repaired, and
the field put back in service immediately.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: What happened to the turf thread?
   Posted: 3/10/2022 11:41:46 AM 
IceCat76 wrote:
Most of the great soccer pitches in Europe have a combo of synthetic and natural grass (Desso Grassmaster). I've wondered why this isn't done in the US.

Here is an excerpt from Liverpool's website. Chelsea and Barcelona use the same thing.

"Tell us about the hybrid pitch at Anfield…

We are 97 per cent natural grass and three per cent fibre. That makes a huge difference. Football is a winter sport so we’re dealing with the worst of the weather and being in the UK, predominantly the worst of the weather is going to be rain. So to make sure the pitch is drained freely, you build your pitch out of sand. Sand is not stable so to give stability you rely on grass roots and when they fail, you need the fibre that’s stitched in there. There’s a machine that basically stitches these fibres in; they go down 20cm deep into the pitch and they’re 2cm apart. An interesting fact is that if you were to take all of the fibres out of the pitch and stretch them end-to-end, they would wrap around the circumference of the planet."


A couple of manufacturers tried to introduce what they called a "hybrid" turf
a few years ago.

The "test" fields they used it on weren't very successful, especially when it came to durability for football.

People were used to and seemed content with synthetic turf.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: What happened to the turf thread?
   Posted: 3/10/2022 2:05:44 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
IceCat76 wrote:
Most of the great soccer pitches in Europe have a combo of synthetic and natural grass (Desso Grassmaster). I've wondered why this isn't done in the US.

Here is an excerpt from Liverpool's website. Chelsea and Barcelona use the same thing.

"Tell us about the hybrid pitch at Anfield…

We are 97 per cent natural grass and three per cent fibre. That makes a huge difference. Football is a winter sport so we’re dealing with the worst of the weather and being in the UK, predominantly the worst of the weather is going to be rain. So to make sure the pitch is drained freely, you build your pitch out of sand. Sand is not stable so to give stability you rely on grass roots and when they fail, you need the fibre that’s stitched in there. There’s a machine that basically stitches these fibres in; they go down 20cm deep into the pitch and they’re 2cm apart. An interesting fact is that if you were to take all of the fibres out of the pitch and stretch them end-to-end, they would wrap around the circumference of the planet."


A couple of manufacturers tried to introduce what they called a "hybrid" turf
a few years ago.

The "test" fields they used it on weren't very successful, especially when it came to durability for football.

People were used to and seemed content with synthetic turf.










There have been some very memorable failures in the knockoff world. Philadelphia Eagles and Toledo Rockets come to mind.
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Pete Chouteau
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  Message Not Read  RE: What happened to the turf thread?
   Posted: 4/9/2022 4:12:40 PM 
Per The Post, the Board of Trustees approved new turf for Peden and 8 other building projects at their meeting on April 8.
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Valley Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: What happened to the turf thread?
   Posted: 4/10/2022 1:39:33 PM 
Any specific information on the additional project that was presented concerning Peden?
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A-townBound
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  Message Not Read  RE: What happened to the turf thread?
   Posted: 6/2/2022 12:43:11 PM 
Urban Bobcat wrote:
The Turf Monster, that lives behind the hill, may have eaten it.


Seems to have come out from behind the hill -

https://twitter.com/OhioBobcats/status/153238739258114867...


Bleed Green and GO OHIO!!
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: What happened to the turf thread?
   Posted: 6/2/2022 2:07:46 PM 
It was mentioned at the caravan in Lancaster last night that they began to tear up the old turf yesterday and should have the new turf installed by mid July.
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Victory
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  Message Not Read  RE: What happened to the turf thread?
   Posted: 6/8/2022 4:52:11 PM 
Apparently Miami is getting new turf and Ohio is making fun of the installation.

https://twitter.com/OhioBobcats/status/1534570641336188931

I don't know anything about field turf except that I've heard that its plastic "turf" then rubber pellets then sand. I always assumed that since the colors were so vibrant and hold up so well overtime that the turf markings were actually made with colored plastic as part of the turf itself instead of being colored after install. But that was just a guess.

I looked at the Miami endzone and it looks like the mistake is that the last vertical line of the "M" was installed where the first should be even though the rest of the actual endzone turf is installed. So it looks like the markings are indeed prefabricated but somehow overlayed on the turf itself rather than being integrated as part of the turf? I guess that makes sense as stadiums can change the endzone markings in some cases.

So rpbobcat, exactly how does this work?

Last Edited: 6/8/2022 4:52:36 PM by Victory
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Ryan Carey
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  Message Not Read  RE: What happened to the turf thread?
   Posted: 6/8/2022 10:11:27 PM 
Pretty sure all the green turf goes down first, then they cut out the colored areas, and glue/seam the colored pieces into place. It's all held together with gluey tape much like how 2 pieces of carpet are connected. This includes all the hash marks and everything.

Ryan M. Carey
BBA 2001

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Victory
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  Message Not Read  RE: What happened to the turf thread?
   Posted: 6/8/2022 10:25:35 PM 
Ryan Carey wrote:
Pretty sure all the green turf goes down first, then they cut out the colored areas, and glue/seam the colored pieces into place. It's all held together with gluey tape much like how 2 pieces of carpet are connected. This includes all the hash marks and everything.


Yeah, I actually watched a video on them changing MetLife from Jets to Giants and they lifted the whole turf up that needs changed pallet by pallet. So, if that's the case and someone cut out turf to match the wrong leg of Miami's "M" that's a pretty serious goof.

Last Edited: 6/9/2022 12:57:57 PM by Victory
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: What happened to the turf thread?
   Posted: 6/9/2022 11:35:39 AM 
Victory wrote:
Apparently Miami is getting new turf and Ohio is making fun of the installation.

https://twitter.com/OhioBobcats/status/1534570641336188931

I don't know anything about field turf except that I've heard that its plastic "turf" then rubber pellets then sand. I always assumed that since the colors were so vibrant and hold up so well overtime that the turf markings were actually made with colored plastic as part of the turf itself instead of being colored after install. But that was just a guess.

I looked at the Miami endzone and it looks like the mistake is that the last vertical line of the "M" was installed where the first should be even though the rest of the actual endzone turf is installed. So it looks like the markings are indeed prefabricated but somehow overlayed on the turf itself rather than being integrated as part of the turf? I guess that makes sense as stadiums can change the endzone markings in some cases.

So rpbobcat, exactly how does this work?


The turf is plastic.
You install it, including markings and logos.
Then you install "infill".
The base is sand.
Then, in most cases, a mix of rubber pellets and sand.
Then a top layer of rubber pellets only.
(That's the "black" dust you sometimes see "fly up".)

If you want to spend a lot more money, you can use "organic" material, like ground coconut husks, in stead of rubber.

I've never done one of those, so I don't know how the "top" layer works.

Line markings and things like that are actually manufactured as part of the green turf.

Logo's, at least on the field's I've done, are prefabricated.
You "shave" the green turf and the sew and glue the logo's.

The synthetic turf, even in the end zones in permanently installed.

The only place I know with "removable" end zones is Met Life.

From talking to people I work with at Field Turf, trying to come up
with a practical method to do this wasn't easy.

Originally, in Giants Stadium, the end zone turf was green.

They had to paint each team's logo with "temporary" paint.

You based the dilution ratio on how long you wanted the markings to last.
(We still do that for things like soccer markings on some fields)

But you still had to do some "scrubbing" to get them off.

They have 3 (Giants, Jets, "blank").

They large are large sections, lifted out "pallet be pallet", then the other
end zone turf pallets are installed.

It takes hours and has to be inspected to make sure everything "fits".


Last Edited: 6/9/2022 12:10:03 PM by rpbobcat
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Victory
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  Message Not Read  RE: What happened to the turf thread?
   Posted: 6/9/2022 12:57:00 PM 
Thanks, It isn't exactly overlaid or cut out but "shaved".

I am still looking at the Miami field and trying to determine exactly what they did to have it look exactly like that at some stage in the process. What is there definitely doesn't look like the left leg of the second "M". It is certainly outlined in white on the entire right side. It doesn't look like a "I" or even the right leg of the "M" either as I thought at first. I am not sure where they are at or how it got that way. It seems like a mistake and if they have to "shave" maybe a serious one.

In the end I guess it isn't important.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: What happened to the turf thread?
   Posted: 6/9/2022 1:12:47 PM 
Victory wrote:
Thanks, It isn't exactly overlaid or cut out but "shaved".

I am still looking at the Miami field and trying to determine exactly what they did to have it look exactly like that at some stage in the process. What is there definitely doesn't look like the left leg of the second "M". It is certainly outlined in white on the entire right side. It doesn't look like a "I" or even the right leg of the "M" either as I thought at first. I am not sure where they are at or how it got that way. It seems like a mistake and if they have to "shave" maybe a serious one.

In the end I guess it isn't important.


With new turf, its not the end of the world.

If they have to, they can remove the turf from all or part of the end zone and replace it.

As long as its new, there are no issues with matching the color.
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