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Topic: NCAA Giving APR Teeth

Topic: NCAA Giving APR Teeth

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JSF
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NCAA Giving APR Teeth

Posted: 8/12/2011 10:09:41 AM

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6853878/ncaa...

I should note the basketball program would not be eligible for the postseason.

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anorris
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RE: NCAA Giving APR Teeth

Posted: 8/12/2011 11:45:02 AM

JSF wrote:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6853878/ncaa...

I should note the basketball program would not be eligible for the postseason.

Going to have to lower the number of bowl games in operation...

KyleWvr13
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RE: NCAA Giving APR Teeth

Posted: 8/12/2011 11:49:18 AM

I probably missed it in the article, but when does this take into effect?

Bobcatbob
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RE: NCAA Giving APR Teeth

Posted: 8/12/2011 1:39:22 PM

Phased in over about 5 years, I think, but certainly long enough for the NFL and NBA to develop minor league systems to absorb the casualties if it truly comes to pass.

Jeff McKinney
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RE: NCAA Giving APR Teeth

Posted: 8/12/2011 2:43:53 PM

I'm fully confident that Ohio basketball would be able to comply with any of these rules changes in a timely fashion.

Alan Swank
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RE: NCAA Giving APR Teeth

Posted: 8/12/2011 3:12:14 PM

What I'd like to see is a number that varies by school. The number would be the graduation rate of the general population of the respective school.

BattleCat
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RE: NCAA Giving APR Teeth

Posted: 8/12/2011 3:40:27 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

What I'd like to see is a number that varies by school. The number would be the graduation rate of the general population of the respective school.

You would dissapointed as Athletic teams graduate at a higher rate than the general student body at just about every school in the Nation.

Alan Swank
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RE: NCAA Giving APR Teeth

Posted: 8/12/2011 4:22:26 PM

Prove it. I don't think that is true.

UpSan Bobcat
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RE: NCAA Giving APR Teeth

Posted: 8/12/2011 5:11:22 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

Prove it. I don't think that is true.

I wasn't sure, so I checked, and I think he's right.

Here's something from Ohio University on its graduation rates: http://www.ohio.edu/instres/student/univgradrates.html
Seems the graduation rate in the university as a whole is close to 70 percent.

This athletics article is from 2010, but I doubt it changes too much from year to year:
http://www.ohiobobcats.com/genrel/102710aaa.html
Athletes as a whole graduated at 83 percent. Even in football it was 71 percent.

BattleCat
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RE: NCAA Giving APR Teeth

Posted: 8/12/2011 5:34:29 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

Prove it. I don't think that is true.

I don't have to prove anything, I know I am correct on this, but here you go, and if you notice the difference is quite a gap in GSR which is a 6 year basis, does not account for transfers. Federal numbers are a little closer with athletes still outpacing the student body. However the Federal rates tract at 4 year periods, which leaves a lot of students out, both athlete and non-athlete.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/Resources...

Can someone please cue up the crow icon for this guy?

Last Edited: 8/12/2011 5:52:16 PM by BattleCat

cc-cat
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RE: NCAA Giving APR Teeth

Posted: 8/13/2011 7:38:41 AM

Makes sense. Athletes have tutors available that non-athletes don't have access to, someone monitoring their grafes and attendance and having assigned study hours also helps tremendously.

Pataskala
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RE: NCAA Giving APR Teeth

Posted: 8/13/2011 9:41:55 AM

anorris wrote:

JSF wrote:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6853878/ncaa...

I should note the basketball program would not be eligible for the postseason.

Going to have to lower the number of bowl games in operation...

Naw. They'll just allow 5-7 AQ teams into the mix so the rich conferences can get even richer.

Last Edited: 8/13/2011 9:43:09 AM by Pataskala

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Alan Swank
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RE: NCAA Giving APR Teeth

Posted: 8/13/2011 2:51:57 PM

BattleCat wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

Prove it. I don't think that is true.

I don't have to prove anything, I know I am correct on this,

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/Resources...

Can someone please cue up the crow icon for this guy?

Wow! If I didn't know better, I'd say that Wannamaker has returned. Anyway, here's what i did. I went to the link that you provided and looked up the rates for the top 10 football teams in last year's final ratings. Here's what the 2009 - 2010 numbers say:

School All Students Athletes

Auburn 67% 57%
TCU 74 73
Oregon 70 74
Stanford 95 89
Ohio State 75 72
Oklahoma 64 48
Wisconsin 81 67
LSU 59 50
Boise State 26 54
Alabama 66 64

So, if I read this right, 8 out of 10 in the AP top 10 fall below the general student graduation rate at their respective school. No crow here but it is time to start the seafood boil.

BattleCat
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RE: NCAA Giving APR Teeth

Posted: 8/13/2011 3:12:26 PM

Whoa, sunshine! You pick 10 schools and as always you want to pick on Football. My comment and my post was Athletes, not top 10 football teams! Try and back pedal and change your tune that is fine, but I stand by my statement that NCAA Athletes graduate at a higher rate than their peers. You said "Prove it!", I did, now you want to "break things out", just admit it, you were wrong as usual.

Last Edited: 8/13/2011 3:20:26 PM by BattleCat

Monroe Slavin
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RE: NCAA Giving APR Teeth

Posted: 8/13/2011 3:26:56 PM

Boise State 26% of all sutdents--really?

How do they define 'graduation rate' here?

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Alan Swank
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RE: NCAA Giving APR Teeth

Posted: 8/13/2011 4:08:37 PM

BattleCat wrote:

You didn't prove jack. You gave us a link to a site where I pulled data on the top 10 schools in the AP football ratings. Those were not football numbers. Those were numbers for all the athletes at those schools. But, to give you a bit of balance, here are the numbers for the top 10 basketball schools - not basketball team numbers but the schools that those teams represent.

School All students All athletes

UConn 78% 60%
Butler 76 76
Kentucky 60 67
Kansas 61 64
Ohio State 75 72
VCU 50 56
Duke 95 86
UNC 85 74
Arizona 58 58
Florida 82 57

So, in this case 5 out of 10 schools graduate regular students at a higher rate than athletes. Not sure how you proved anything other than making your typical I've been there, I've eaten there, I heard that person talk, etc., etc, etc.

BattleCat
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RE: NCAA Giving APR Teeth

Posted: 8/13/2011 4:16:58 PM

Can you freaking read? The article spells it out for you! Student Athletes graduate at a higher rate than their student peers, I never said football, I never said basketball, I said Student Athletes. Why don't you offer proof, (not a top 10 list). All you want to do is pick on a couple of schools, my original post was athletes at the NCAA DI level which is across the country, I can offer nothing better than that article that offers statistical data from the Federal Government and the NCAA. You want to pick top 10 this top 10 that, I am and was referring to college athletes, not the top 10 of anything!

"Using the federal government�s methodology, which does not count transfer students and is less accurate than the GSR, Division I student-athletes who entered college in 2003 graduated at 64 percent, still the highest federal rate ever and one point higher than the general student body.�". NCAA.org

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/cebd2a8044780448987db...

Last Edited: 8/13/2011 4:56:01 PM by BattleCat

BattleCat
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RE: NCAA Giving APR Teeth

Posted: 8/13/2011 4:32:20 PM

Check th above link Mr. swank then give your arguement that disputes BOTH the Federal Government and the NCAA.

OhioCatFan
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RE: NCAA Giving APR Teeth

Posted: 8/13/2011 4:36:01 PM

Alan, I think what you're failing to recognize is what happens to those averages when the Volleyball teams are averaged in!

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Alan Swank
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RE: NCAA Giving APR Teeth

Posted: 8/13/2011 5:01:52 PM

What I'd like to see is a number that varies by school. The number would be the graduation rate of the general population of the respective school.

BC, this was my original post on this subject and I still believe that to be true. It would be interesting to go through the list of all D1 schools and see how many "schools" graduate athletes at a higher rate than the student body. I picked the top 10 basketball schools and football schools last year to get a feel for how things would shake out.

BattleCat
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RE: NCAA Giving APR Teeth

Posted: 8/13/2011 5:09:24 PM

And my post was you'd be disappointed because athletes nationwide graduate at a higher rate. As for your top 10 list, I am sure the best of the money sports will have lower S-A% as some of those guys are admittedly not there for school, and using the "Top 10" would not be representative of the population as a whole. If you would read the article I posted you would see the NCAA GSR, which (IMO) is way better than the Federal data which count transfers as a zero for the school they leave and never count if they graduate from another school. So a guy like Dan Aloi who has a PH.D counted as a "non-graduate" in the federal statistics, so to did guys like Stonerook, Ryan Hawk, and the list could go on. So if you accept GSR statistics the S-A far out paces the normal student.

And complete list of the data you are looking for is readily available for your review.

Last Edited: 8/13/2011 5:22:44 PM by BattleCat

JSF
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RE: NCAA Giving APR Teeth

Posted: 8/14/2011 5:01:23 AM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

I'm fully confident that Ohio basketball would be able to comply with any of these rules changes in a timely fashion.

Because they'd have to.

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