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Topic:  Coaching salaries

Topic:  Coaching salaries
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Kevin Finnegan
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Member Since: 2/4/2005
Location: Rockton, IL
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  Message Not Read  Coaching salaries
   Posted: 12/10/2021 2:08:04 PM 
They've blown up this year, hitting crazy numbers. Coaches are getting $8-$10 million a year in Oklahoma, MSU, Alabama, Miami, Oregon, etc. I imagine all of their top assistants are in the $2 million range. Heck, even Hugh is getting $4 million at Liberty.

So, two part question. One, does that likely mean that next year, to compete on any level, we are going to have to entertain the idea of $1 million for a coach in Athens? If that's where the market is going, is the $550,000 buyout of Albin that daunting? Maybe, we buy him out now and get somebody at the 2021 rate rather than see where things blow up even more in 2022.

Also, if schools are showing they have this much money in the program, it seems like OHIO and other MAC schools need to be demanding a bit more for money games at these schools.
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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coaching salaries
   Posted: 12/10/2021 2:40:30 PM 
There is no way we can compete in this arms race. A large portion of the faculty is upset about the current rate of Ohio coaches salaries. They probably can't fathom some of the salaries not only being paid by the big boys, but even at some non-Power 5 conference schools. Somthing has got to give.
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colobobcat66
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Location: Watching the bobcats run outside my window., CO
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coaching salaries
   Posted: 12/10/2021 2:43:05 PM 
Kevin Finnegan wrote:
They've blown up this year, hitting crazy numbers. Coaches are getting $8-$10 million a year in Oklahoma, MSU, Alabama, Miami, Oregon, etc. I imagine all of their top assistants are in the $2 million range. Heck, even Hugh is getting $4 million at Liberty.

So, two part question. One, does that likely mean that next year, to compete on any level, we are going to have to entertain the idea of $1 million for a coach in Athens? If that's where the market is going, is the $550,000 buyout of Albin that daunting? Maybe, we buy him out now and get somebody at the 2021 rate rather than see where things blow up even more in 2022.

Also, if schools are showing they have this much money in the program, it seems like OHIO and other MAC schools need to be demanding a bit more for money games at these schools.


USA TODAY had an article yesterday covering the top 10 highest paid assistants. Our old friend Derek Mason was number 10 at $1.5 million. Now that was yesterday so there’s no way of saying what the top ten are today.
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shabamon
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Member Since: 11/17/2006
Location: Cincinnati
Post Count: 6,521

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  Message Not Read  RE: Coaching salaries
   Posted: 12/10/2021 3:05:36 PM 
I wish Coach Albin success, but IF he's not kept after next year, Derek Mason is on my list for the job. It's not easy to imagine if he'd be interested if his salary were to be cut by two thirds.
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Bobcat Love
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 1,104

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  Message Not Read  RE: Coaching salaries
   Posted: 12/10/2021 4:49:18 PM 
cbus cat fan wrote:
There is no way we can compete in this arms race. A large portion of the faculty is upset about the current rate of Ohio coaches salaries. They probably can't fathom some of the salaries not only being paid by the big boys, but even at some non-Power 5 conference schools. Somthing has got to give.


This faculty is so out of touch with reality, they really aren't a good barometer for what is normal vs. abnormal.

I'll agree the Coaches salaries and buyouts are out of control, but at least football brings in revenue.

These stale faculty members (and worse - Administrators) have been pimping the exact same stale product at OU for 25+ years - yet the price of admission has gone up dramatically while the # of buyers has decreased. Scott Galloway had a great point - if you asked me to buy a car at today's prices that had the same features as the ones 25 years ago - I'd look at you like you were insane. That is Higher education in a nutshell. Same stale product for 25+ years while prices skyrocket to support the bloated payroll.

If you want terrible business practices - have the faculty and Administrators look square in the mirror. Higher education is a disgrace.

Last Edited: 12/10/2021 4:51:15 PM by Bobcat Love
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Casper71
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Member Since: 12/1/2006
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coaching salaries
   Posted: 12/10/2021 4:55:31 PM 
Love, you are so right. I worked in higher education for a public institution in the state of Ohio for 30 years. I can remember the days when a college president could not make more than the governor. The whole growth in faculty and administrative salaries is out-of-control and ridiculous. The same is true with football coaches. But you know as the saying goes “it’s the system“. Sad thing is at places like OU the students are the ones paying the bill for all this crap.

Last Edited: 12/10/2021 4:56:26 PM by Casper71
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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 9,998

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  Message Not Read  RE: Coaching salaries
   Posted: 12/10/2021 5:28:26 PM 
Kevin Finnegan wrote:
They've blown up this year, hitting crazy numbers. Coaches are getting $8-$10 million a year in Oklahoma, MSU, Alabama, Miami, Oregon, etc. I imagine all of their top assistants are in the $2 million range. Heck, even Hugh is getting $4 million at Liberty.

So, two part question. One, does that likely mean that next year, to compete on any level, we are going to have to entertain the idea of $1 million for a coach in Athens? If that's where the market is going, is the $550,000 buyout of Albin that daunting? Maybe, we buy him out now and get somebody at the 2021 rate rather than see where things blow up even more in 2022.

Also, if schools are showing they have this much money in the program, it seems like OHIO and other MAC schools need to be demanding a bit more for money games at these schools.


All those monster contracts are Booster monies.
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Pataskala
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Location: At least six feet away from anybody else
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coaching salaries
   Posted: 12/10/2021 5:51:03 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Kevin Finnegan wrote:
They've blown up this year, hitting crazy numbers. Coaches are getting $8-$10 million a year in Oklahoma, MSU, Alabama, Miami, Oregon, etc. I imagine all of their top assistants are in the $2 million range. Heck, even Hugh is getting $4 million at Liberty.

So, two part question. One, does that likely mean that next year, to compete on any level, we are going to have to entertain the idea of $1 million for a coach in Athens? If that's where the market is going, is the $550,000 buyout of Albin that daunting? Maybe, we buy him out now and get somebody at the 2021 rate rather than see where things blow up even more in 2022.

Also, if schools are showing they have this much money in the program, it seems like OHIO and other MAC schools need to be demanding a bit more for money games at these schools.


All those monster contracts are Booster monies.


Agreed, Billy. Also agree with Kevin that MAC schools, especially Ohio, need to jack up the prices for "P" games. Kent usually gets a million plus from Bama but it's mostly due to the Saban connection. But as I recall we got only about 2/3 of Albin's salary from NWern this year. Half a million should be the base price for any MAC team vs any "P" team. $750,000 should be the average. These guys have money to throw around for coaches, lavish facilities, and overseas trips (ND is scheduled to play Navy in Ireland in 2023). A few extra hundred thou for a home game vs a MAC team shouldn't be unreasonable.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.
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Casper71
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Post Count: 2,991

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  Message Not Read  RE: Coaching salaries
   Posted: 12/10/2021 6:51:59 PM 
At a place like OU, I am not so sure that booster contributions would pay all the salaries. I would think it’s more likely a combination of guarantees and student fees. No matter what it is, I believe the Ohio football program loses money in total or breaks even thanks to student fees. You take those student fees away and you will see just how much the program really loses. I guess my real point is salaries at the top for administrative or sports staff are completely out of control on college campuses.

Last Edited: 12/10/2021 6:55:05 PM by Casper71
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Bobcat Love
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 1,104

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  Message Not Read  RE: Coaching salaries
   Posted: 12/10/2021 8:09:43 PM 
Pataskala wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Kevin Finnegan wrote:
They've blown up this year, hitting crazy numbers. Coaches are getting $8-$10 million a year in Oklahoma, MSU, Alabama, Miami, Oregon, etc. I imagine all of their top assistants are in the $2 million range. Heck, even Hugh is getting $4 million at Liberty.

So, two part question. One, does that likely mean that next year, to compete on any level, we are going to have to entertain the idea of $1 million for a coach in Athens? If that's where the market is going, is the $550,000 buyout of Albin that daunting? Maybe, we buy him out now and get somebody at the 2021 rate rather than see where things blow up even more in 2022.

Also, if schools are showing they have this much money in the program, it seems like OHIO and other MAC schools need to be demanding a bit more for money games at these schools.


All those monster contracts are Booster monies.


Agreed, Billy. Also agree with Kevin that MAC schools, especially Ohio, need to jack up the prices for "P" games. Kent usually gets a million plus from Bama but it's mostly due to the Saban connection. But as I recall we got only about 2/3 of Albin's salary from NWern this year. Half a million should be the base price for any MAC team vs any "P" team. $750,000 should be the average. These guys have money to throw around for coaches, lavish facilities, and overseas trips (ND is scheduled to play Navy in Ireland in 2023). A few extra hundred thou for a home game vs a MAC team shouldn't be unreasonable.


This would involve the G5 schools actually getting off their asses and coordinating a real plan to get a seat at the table and make more money. They have proven unwilling to do so, because each of these AD's in the G5 wants a P5 job and doesn't want to rock the boat. I'm telling you, everything about Higher Education stinks to high heaven right now. It's a pathetic, rotting corpse of an industry. We haven't even touched on the Student Loan situation. We are really talking about bottom of the barrel talent dearth when it comes to Higher Education Administration. Sad.
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L.C.
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Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 10,470

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  Message Not Read  RE: Coaching salaries
   Posted: 12/10/2021 10:55:54 PM 
Pataskala wrote:
Agreed, Billy. Also agree with Kevin that MAC schools, especially Ohio, need to jack up the prices for "P" games. Kent usually gets a million plus from Bama but it's mostly due to the Saban connection. But as I recall we got only about 2/3 of Albin's salary from NWern this year. Half a million should be the base price for any MAC team vs any "P" team. $750,000 should be the average. These guys have money to throw around for coaches, lavish facilities, and overseas trips (ND is scheduled to play Navy in Ireland in 2023). A few extra hundred thou for a home game vs a MAC team shouldn't be unreasonable.

My observation is that the more "beatable" a P5 team is, the more teams that want to play them, and thus, the less they need to pay to get a game. The more hopeless the chance of a win, the less teams that want to play them, and thus, the higher the price. Ohio could make a lot more on P5 teams if they schedule Ohio State, Alabama, etc rather than the likes of Northwestern. However, while they make more money, the chance of a win drops dramatically.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Urban Bobcat
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Location: Athens, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coaching salaries
   Posted: 12/11/2021 12:07:22 AM 
L.C. wrote:
Pataskala wrote:
Agreed, Billy. Also agree with Kevin that MAC schools, especially Ohio, need to jack up the prices for "P" games. Kent usually gets a million plus from Bama but it's mostly due to the Saban connection. But as I recall we got only about 2/3 of Albin's salary from NWern this year. Half a million should be the base price for any MAC team vs any "P" team. $750,000 should be the average. These guys have money to throw around for coaches, lavish facilities, and overseas trips (ND is scheduled to play Navy in Ireland in 2023). A few extra hundred thou for a home game vs a MAC team shouldn't be unreasonable.

My observation is that the more "beatable" a P5 team is, the more teams that want to play them, and thus, the less they need to pay to get a game. The more hopeless the chance of a win, the less teams that want to play them, and thus, the higher the price. Ohio could make a lot more on P5 teams if they schedule Ohio State, Alabama, etc rather than the likes of Northwestern. However, while they make more money, the chance of a win drops dramatically.


We just need to hire a coach that CAN'T win, so it would only be logical to play the schools with the best paydays.

URBAN BOBCAT

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coaching salaries
   Posted: 12/11/2021 10:46:12 AM 
Pataskala wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Kevin Finnegan wrote:
They've blown up this year, hitting crazy numbers. Coaches are getting $8-$10 million a year in Oklahoma, MSU, Alabama, Miami, Oregon, etc. I imagine all of their top assistants are in the $2 million range. Heck, even Hugh is getting $4 million at Liberty.

So, two part question. One, does that likely mean that next year, to compete on any level, we are going to have to entertain the idea of $1 million for a coach in Athens? If that's where the market is going, is the $550,000 buyout of Albin that daunting? Maybe, we buy him out now and get somebody at the 2021 rate rather than see where things blow up even more in 2022.

Also, if schools are showing they have this much money in the program, it seems like OHIO and other MAC schools need to be demanding a bit more for money games at these schools.


All those monster contracts are Booster monies.


Agreed, Billy. Also agree with Kevin that MAC schools, especially Ohio, need to jack up the prices for "P" games. Kent usually gets a million plus from Bama but it's mostly due to the Saban connection. But as I recall we got only about 2/3 of Albin's salary from NWern this year. Half a million should be the base price for any MAC team vs any "P" team. $750,000 should be the average. These guys have money to throw around for coaches, lavish facilities, and overseas trips (ND is scheduled to play Navy in Ireland in 2023). A few extra hundred thou for a home game vs a MAC team shouldn't be unreasonable.


Our former AD’s and scheduling philosophy is what has left us underpaid for P games. That and Frank would not play many of the ones who pay real money.
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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coaching salaries
   Posted: 12/11/2021 11:30:03 AM 
Bobcat Love wrote:
cbus cat fan wrote:
There is no way we can compete in this arms race. A large portion of the faculty is upset about the current rate of Ohio coaches salaries. They probably can't fathom some of the salaries not only being paid by the big boys, but even at some non-Power 5 conference schools. Somthing has got to give.


This faculty is so out of touch with reality, they really aren't a good barometer for what is normal vs. abnormal.

I'll agree the Coaches salaries and buyouts are out of control, but at least football brings in revenue.

These stale faculty members (and worse - Administrators) have been pimping the exact same stale product at OU for 25+ years - yet the price of admission has gone up dramatically while the # of buyers has decreased. Scott Galloway had a great point - if you asked me to buy a car at today's prices that had the same features as the ones 25 years ago - I'd look at you like you were insane. That is Higher education in a nutshell. Same stale product for 25+ years while prices skyrocket to support the bloated payroll.

If you want terrible business practices - have the faculty and Administrators look square in the mirror. Higher education is a disgrace.


Very true Higher Ed's ineptness has been a problem for a long time. I don't know about our beloved Alma mater but in talking with an Ohio 5 administrator, she told me that the number of administrators have doubled in the last 20 years, plenty of politically correct titles that go along with their hefty paychecks. Also, the number of counselors and health care officals have skyrockted as well. She told me the majority having to do with students who feel stressed. It is as if stress never existed before 2000. I am not trying to downplay the need for proper health care, but between that and all of these administrators who have fancy titles with little work actually meaningful work to do, we are facing a serious problem in Higher Ed.

Add to that the fear that many faculty members have about being downsized and or sent to the adjunct faculty lot, they are fearful and take it out on athletics rather than the administrators who will truly decide their fate. Sort of like a mini Stockholm Syndrome. Yet, the writing is clearly on the wall, Commissioner Sankey of the SEC and his fellow Power 5 colleagues are certainly desiring to relegate the non-power 5 to the old I-AA status. Sankey apparently is a big fan of the relegation system in European soccer, which means we are sent down to the second or third division. Gone will be the hefty scheduling paydays and other perks we got playing them. This is the reality that is staring us in the face.

Last Edited: 12/11/2021 11:32:47 AM by cbus cat fan
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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coaching salaries
   Posted: 12/11/2021 5:25:01 PM 
Casper71 wrote:
At a place like OU, I am not so sure that booster contributions would pay all the salaries. I would think it’s more likely a combination of guarantees and student fees. No matter what it is, I believe the Ohio football program loses money in total or breaks even thanks to student fees. You take those student fees away and you will see just how much the program really loses. I guess my real point is salaries at the top for administrative or sports staff are completely out of control on college campuses.


This is true. We should be paying our coaches in line with deans. We can find good coaches for that kind of money. Then, if and when they are successful, they move to P5 for more money and we find another up and comer.
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coaching salaries
   Posted: 12/11/2021 7:30:45 PM 
giacomo wrote:
Casper71 wrote:
At a place like OU, I am not so sure that booster contributions would pay all the salaries. I would think it’s more likely a combination of guarantees and student fees. No matter what it is, I believe the Ohio football program loses money in total or breaks even thanks to student fees. You take those student fees away and you will see just how much the program really loses. I guess my real point is salaries at the top for administrative or sports staff are completely out of control on college campuses.


This is true. We should be paying our coaches in line with deans. We can find good coaches for that kind of money. Then, if and when they are successful, they move to P5 for more money and we find another up and comer.


So, you're saying Ohio should pay its coaches in line with deans? Had no idea you felt this way.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coaching salaries
   Posted: 12/11/2021 7:40:52 PM 
So for all of you Richard Vedder “wannabe’s” which is ironic, because Vedder may be historically the most disliked man by many on this board. I ask you for you “solutions to the problems you say Higher Ed has. I mean you guys are awesome at identifying the problem, but why don’t you focus on an actual solution, one that is practical and workable.
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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coaching salaries
   Posted: 12/11/2021 9:17:20 PM 
Casper71 wrote:
At a place like OU, I am not so sure that booster contributions would pay all the salaries. I would think it’s more likely a combination of guarantees and student fees. No matter what it is, I believe the Ohio football program loses money in total or breaks even thanks to student fees. You take those student fees away and you will see just how much the program really loses. I guess my real point is salaries at the top for administrative or sports staff are completely out of control on college campuses.


I don't think Billy was insinuating that boosters would pay for big salaries at Ohio. I think he actually meant the opposite. That ain't gonna happen so a big % of athletics salaries at schools like Ohio comes from student fees. That makes opposition within the university community more challenging to deal with.

I think the future for schools like Ohio is in a division lower than P5. But I'm not seeing that means an end to pay out games.
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TWT
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Location: Alexandria, VA
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coaching salaries
   Posted: 12/11/2021 9:34:15 PM 
Another structural cost problem not discussed is the rising cost of health care the university has to absorb for all of its staff. If Medicare was lowered to age 60 or age 55 it would take a lot of risk out of insurers for standard plans reducing premiums. This compounds the costs associated with the expansion of administrative positions at universities.

Last Edited: 12/11/2021 9:35:58 PM by TWT

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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TWT
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Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 5,100

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  Message Not Read  RE: Coaching salaries
   Posted: 12/11/2021 9:48:28 PM 
Jeff McKinney wrote:
Casper71 wrote:
At a place like OU, I am not so sure that booster contributions would pay all the salaries. I would think it’s more likely a combination of guarantees and student fees. No matter what it is, I believe the Ohio football program loses money in total or breaks even thanks to student fees. You take those student fees away and you will see just how much the program really loses. I guess my real point is salaries at the top for administrative or sports staff are completely out of control on college campuses.


I don't think Billy was insinuating that boosters would pay for big salaries at Ohio. I think he actually meant the opposite. That ain't gonna happen so a big % of athletics salaries at schools like Ohio comes from student fees. That makes opposition within the university community more challenging to deal with.

I think the future for schools like Ohio is in a division lower than P5. But I'm not seeing that means an end to pay out games.


The MAC just has to stay above FCS conferences in salary to make it work. FCS has no athletic revenue so they aren't pushing the envelope on salaries.

Judging by Akron bringing in the OC of Oregon for only 500k a year to be a HC in the MAC the model still works. The kids aren't signing of on playing where the coach makes the most they are signing off on the campus, facilities and the ability to win.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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71 BOBCAT
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coaching salaries
   Posted: 12/12/2021 9:32:18 AM 
We all know how the faculty and administration wine about the athletic budget.
Here are my questions;
How much has the average faculty salary increased over the last 10 years or so.
Doesn't the administration request, require, that the faculty write books as well as continue their education to move toward the PHD level? All these requirements also result in pay increases. Right?
All universities are competing with each other and the more PHD's one has gives them an advertising advantage vs the competition.
In the same fashion that a university wants, selects, a diverse student body why shouldn't these same students experience a campus that incorporates a diverse out of the classroom experience?



GO BOBCATS
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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coaching salaries
   Posted: 12/12/2021 11:56:09 AM 
What does paying a coach 1M have to do with out of classroom experience? For those that advocate for high coaching salaries, what do you think will change with our athletic program?
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Casper71
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Member Since: 12/1/2006
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coaching salaries
   Posted: 12/12/2021 12:30:31 PM 
Jeff, you are right. I misinterpreted what Billy said. Having said that, I think we all agree schools like Ohio just don’t have that kind of booster support. And, I think we all agree salaries at the top have skyrocketed!
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coaching salaries
   Posted: 12/12/2021 12:56:31 PM 
It used to be MAC teams and fans had to worry about a head football/basketball coach putting together a few good years and then leaving for a head coaching position elsewhere due to a much higher salary. That hasn't happened with OUr Bobcats in football but it has twice in basketball since I've been a fan - Danny Nee to Nebraska and John Groce to Illinois.

Fast forward to the 2020s and I can now see MAC head coaches jumping ship not for another head coaching position but for an assistant coaching position at a P5 school for the same reasons - doubling, tripling or even quadrupling their salaries.

The gap between the haves and the have nots keeps getting wider.
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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: Coaching salaries
   Posted: 12/12/2021 2:08:35 PM 
I’m okay with that scenario. We don’t make any money from athletics, so we can’t match those salaries. You also must realize that it’s not just about the money. An ambitious coach thinks if they can get to the right school and situation, they have a chance to win a national championship. That is a pipe dream in the MAC.
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