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Topic: To Everyone Who Feels We Have Made Great Strides As A Program...

Topic: To Everyone Who Feels We Have Made Great Strides As A Program...

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I_Need_Zoloft
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 25

Status: Offline

To Everyone Who Feels We Have Made Great Strides As A Program...

Posted: 12/21/2010 9:29:02 AM

Let’s look at the numbers and debate on how far we have come. First, I won’t include FCS games, just FBS. If you want to count them as serious competition, then drop to FCS.

2006 Ohio Bobcats

vs. FBS (I-A) 8-5

vs. FBS Winning 2-4

vs. FBS Non-Winning 6-1

2007 Ohio Bobcats

vs. FBS (I-A) 5-6

vs. FBS Winning 1-1

vs. FBS Non-Winning 4-5

2008 Ohio Bobcats

vs. FBS (I-A) 3-8

vs. FBS Winning 0-5

vs. FBS Non-Winning 3-3

2009 Ohio Bobcats

vs. FBS (I-A) 8-5

vs. FBS Winning 3-4

vs. FBS Non-Winning 5-1

2010 Ohio Bobcats

vs. FBS (I-A) 7-5

vs. FBS Winning 2-3

vs. FBS Non-Winning 5-2

Total record vs FBS winning 2006-2010:

8-17

It's clear the last 4 years we have benefited from scheduling sub .500 teams to make it to the top of the garbage pile a few times only to get a wakeup call against real teams. Smoke and mirrors.

Last Edited: 12/21/2010 9:34:23 AM by I_Need_Zoloft

Mike Coleman
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Location: Near the Pristine Sandy Shores of Lake Erie, OH
Post Count: 1,645

Status: Offline

RE: To Everyone Who Feels We Have Made Great Strides As A Program...

Posted: 12/21/2010 9:55:19 AM

I_Need_Zoloft wrote:

Total record vs FBS winning 2006-2010:

8-17

It's clear the last 4 years we have benefited from scheduling sub .500 teams to make it to the top of the garbage pile a few times only to get a wakeup call against real teams. Smoke and mirrors.

First, what was our record vs. FBS winning for the previous five years, the five years prior, the five years prior? Isn't that how you measure progress? If you go from 0-31 vs. FBS winning to 8-17 then isn't that progress? Some may even call it a great stride.

Secondly, I think you have to compare this to other MAC programs and non-BCS programs. I think I read Al Golden's similar record was 2-14 or something. Now he's making 2 million a year and getting a good tan.

I think it's clear we've made the jump from a terrible program to a middling one. Now if can we make that next jump is the $10 million question.

That one crazy fan
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Member Since: 7/21/2010
Location: Iowa City, IA
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RE: To Everyone Who Feels We Have Made Great Strides As A Program...

Posted: 12/21/2010 10:37:29 AM

Ok Zoloft, perhaps you'd like to go back to the Lichtenberg, Bryant, or Knorr years where winning even 1 or 2 games in a season was considered a success? If you want to have competition, first we need to find teams who win THAT WE CAN BEAT to play us instead of the Ohio States and Oregons of college football. After recent success you guys think we can suddenly tackle the big boys. Before we can do that we need to set up a winning tradition by beating anyone we can. After we get used to that then we can start climbing that ladder. I'd say we go after some of the lesser Big East teams next and after a few years of that move on up, then we start playing the lesser Big Ten and ACC teams. The other problem is some of these teams have their schedules set already 5 years down the road. When I was following Ohio state, I could see games 3 or 4 years ahead. Now tell me, could you see what we'd be doing 4 years ago when losing was still expected? If that were the case would you want to schedule hard opponents that would suredly beat us?????? I remember someone saying they'd rather schedule Wisconsin for the next 40 years and get embarrassed each game rather than win against a sun belt team (La Lafayette) each year because it'd be playing a team that wins. I do not, I prefer baby steps and those are what are needed.

I've already set my prediction for when we will be a top contender. We must stay at this level and continue to improve every year. Some years will be better than others, but as long as we do not backtrack I give this team 20 maybe 25 years before we are the next Boise State and are in the ranking system. Laugh whoever wants to laugh, but it certainly is feasible, but for you guys who want success NOW know that success is a slow process if you want it done right.

The opposing team sucks!

bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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Member Since: 12/1/2006
Location: Cincinnati
Post Count: 1,926

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RE: To Everyone Who Feels We Have Made Great Strides As A Program...

Posted: 12/21/2010 10:43:26 AM

I_Need_Zoloft wrote:

8-17

It's clear the last 4 years we have benefited from scheduling sub .500 teams to make it to the top of the garbage pile a few times only to get a wakeup call against real teams. Smoke and mirrors.

8-17 is progress though.

2001: 1-10 (0-7 vs winning)
2002: 4-8 (0-7 vs winning)
2003: 2-10 (0-5 vs winning)
2004: 4-7 (0-6 vs winning)
2005: 4-7 (0-6 vs winning)

2001-2005: 0-31 vs winning teams

Last Edited: 12/21/2010 10:56:43 AM by bigtillyoopsupsideurhead

Mike Coleman
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Location: Near the Pristine Sandy Shores of Lake Erie, OH
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RE: To Everyone Who Feels We Have Made Great Strides As A Program...

Posted: 12/21/2010 11:14:36 AM

bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote:

I_Need_Zoloft wrote:

Thanks. I bet even if you look up the Grobe years, which were fun,the past five years blow it away. I can only recall a Grobe team winning three games against 1-A teams with winning records...WMU in '97, Miami in 1999 and Marshall in 2000. Minnesota finished up 2000 at 6-6.

I think it's safe to say 8-17 is the best four-year stretch v. winning 1-A/FBS since at least the 60s if not ever.

Besides, I've read why some statisticians think this stat is overstated. They say if a team wins all its games, then sometimes up to 20% of those games against teams with potential winning or .500 records end up against teams with losing records. Similarly, 0-12 teams always point to a tough schedule, but that schedule is up to 12 games higher on the winning side of the ledger than it could have been.

Bobcat36
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Member Since: 1/5/2005
Location: Delaware, OH
Post Count: 1,167

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RE: To Everyone Who Feels We Have Made Great Strides As A Program...

Posted: 12/21/2010 12:01:30 PM

Mike Coleman wrote:

I_Need_Zoloft wrote:

Coincidence? I think not...

GoBobcats!!!! Always have been and always will be... Ohio's First and Finest!

Hooligan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 217

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RE: To Everyone Who Feels We Have Made Great Strides As A Program...

Posted: 12/21/2010 1:12:38 PM

I can remember days when we lost to losing teams. I'll take this progress and expect more. Hope you get that Prior jersey you asked Santa for.

L.C.
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Location: United States
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RE: To Everyone Who Feels We Have Made Great Strides As A Program...

Posted: 12/21/2010 1:37:30 PM

First of all, let's consider this. Most teams mathematically must have losing records against winning teams. Any team that wins half its games against teams with winning records is going to beat most, if not all, of it's foes with losing records, and therefore will probably win 75-80% of its games, and therefore will end up with a very good record. I'm not saying that winning half the games against teams with winning records isn't a good goal, or isn't attainable; it is a good goal, and is attainable. What I am saying is that if you attain it, you will be winning 75-80% of your games or better a year, something few teams achieve year in and year out.

Using your numbers, from 2006-2008 Ohio was 13-9 (59%) against teams with non winning records, and 3-10 (23%) against teams with winning records. In 2009-2010 Ohio was 10-3 (77%) against teams with non-winning records, and 5-7 (42%) against teams with winning records. I think your numbers show that Ohio is making progress, though perhaps not as fast as you'd like.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Bobcatbob
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Location: Coolville, OH
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RE: To Everyone Who Feels We Have Made Great Strides As A Program...

Posted: 12/21/2010 1:55:45 PM

To me the numbers are irrelevant. I meet more and more people every day who express some level of interest in Ohio football and athletics in general and that is concrete proof of some success. The program is no longer the butt of incessant jokes. We are doing just fine, as the saying goes.

Some of that interest is undoubtedly created by the MAC TV package, which I think all agree is terrible for the students and the live gate, but it works. Even with that, we have to be in somewhat meaningful games to be included and we have been. We get noticed.

Finally, bowl appearances, albeit unsuccessful, form impressions on people who would never notice OU. I believe we're on the upslope of the curve now and we're making progress.

I never want to go back to the days of 4,000 people in the stands and 0 points on the scoreboard. If this is middlin'. I'll take it.

Steve
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Member Since: 12/1/2005
Post Count: 710

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RE: To Everyone Who Feels We Have Made Great Strides As A Program...

Posted: 12/21/2010 2:26:17 PM

I try to read the board every day. I don't recall too many people using the word "great" to measure the progress we have made last few years. There is the small percentage who are happy we don't stink every season. And there's a small percentage who would complain if we went 13-0, but only won the bowl game by three touchdowns.

Seems to me the large majority of us are pleased with two MAC East ttiles and three bowl games we've had the last few years, but want more, as in winning the conference and winning bowl games.

To use the word "great" to describe the way people feel about the state of the program is debunking a myth that doesn't exist.

colobobcat66
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Location: Watching the bobcats run outside my window., CO
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RE: To Everyone Who Feels We Have Made Great Strides As A Program...

Posted: 12/21/2010 2:53:26 PM

It's counterproductive IMO for the hoop fans to come over here and blast the football fans when they do the same-wait til next year, wait til late in the year or wait til the MAC tournament, maybe we'll be good then. I honestly think that there are quite a few fans who want us not to be better in football, because that will hurt BB. It's a shame, but that's life.

perimeterpost
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Member Since: 7/6/2010
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RE: To Everyone Who Feels We Have Made Great Strides As A Program...

Posted: 12/21/2010 4:31:45 PM

I pulled these numbers for Temple when Temple fans were running their mouths about how great Golden was and how they are too good for the MAC. During the same time frame Temple was 2-27 (0-12 MAC) against teams with a winning record. What this data shows is that Temple's success can be contributed more to the increased number of bad teams they play in the MAC then anything else.

As for OHIO, we're a founding member of the MAC so there's been no change in conference games over the years, and very little in OOC opponents. What Solich has been able to do is to progress this team from being one of the bad teams that the good teams beat to pad their record to being one of the good teams that beats bad teams to pad our record. That's progress.

The next step for OHIO is to start winning MACCs and bowls against like minded opponents (Sun Belt/Marshall). I'm glad that we have progressed from where we were and I look forward to us getting to that next level. Satatisfied? no. Hopeful? yes.

MY STATE. MY TEAM.

Mike Johnson
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Location: North Canton, OH
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RE: To Everyone Who Feels We Have Made Great Strides As A Program...

Posted: 12/21/2010 7:15:27 PM

It seems clear that several of us are employing different measures of success. For me it is pretty fundamental. To wit, under Bryant, Lichty and Knorr, I expected Ohio to lose virtually every game. Under Grobe and Solich, I believe we have a chance to win virtually every game. That belief makes much more enjoyable game-day drives to Athens, time spent tailgating and drives home after victories.

http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author

OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: To Everyone Who Feels We Have Made Great Strides As A Program...

Posted: 12/21/2010 7:16:54 PM

perimeterpost wrote:

. . .The next step for OHIO is to start winning MACCs and bowls against like minded opponents (Sun Belt/Marshall). I'm glad that we have progressed from where we were and I look forward to us getting to that next level. Satatisfied? no. Hopeful? yes.

What he said.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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Monroe Slavin
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RE: To Everyone Who Feels We Have Made Great Strides As A Program...

Posted: 12/21/2010 10:27:10 PM

Frustrating.

Between the team's success and appearances on TV and the publicity efforts (University, Alumni office, Athletics), you can see that we are on the verge. Look at the number of posts and number of people posting here. It's a lot busier.

But we can't get those signature wins and that break-out season.

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!

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Pataskala
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RE: To Everyone Who Feels We Have Made Great Strides As A Program...

Posted: 12/21/2010 10:51:58 PM

The last time OU had back-to-back winning seasons was '80-'81. Then, the MAC played 9 conference games out of the 11 scheduled. In '80, OU lost at Minn (38-14) and beat 1AA Marshall (28-20). In '81 they lost at Minn (19-17) and lost to independent Cincy (19-9) in Athens. Minn was 5-6 in '80 and 6-5 in '81. Cincy was 6-5. Not exactly overwhelming opposition. The point is that, for the foreseeable future, OU -- and darn near every MAC team -- will be competitive only against mid to lower level AQ schools, so we shouldn't have any delusions of grandeur. I think Solich's first goal from the start has been to make the team competitive in the MAC. That appears to have been accomplished. The next step is to be more competitive against the better non-conf teams. Remember, Jim Grobe's teams were 2-9 against AQ schools and 1-3 against other 1A schools. That's 3-12. Great strides? No. But getting where they need to be. I'd like to see another AQ school on the schedule each year, just to make the schedule more respectable. And if OU beats one of them, even better.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

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