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Topic: Working though this

Topic: Working though this

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Bobcat Debate 73
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Member Since: 11/26/2007
Post Count: 204

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Working though this

Posted: 5/8/2020 10:17:58 PM

Folks,

Hope you all have a great weekend! Stay safe. Wear masks, not a sign of weakness, a sign you are willing to protect others! I want see OHIO play football and basketball! To do this we need to follow non-partisan science. I want OHIO to open safely, so I am not fearful of attending a 2020 football kickoff! Let’s do this right!!

Ed

OU_Country
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Member Since: 12/6/2005
Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
Post Count: 8,348

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RE: Working though this

Posted: 5/11/2020 4:05:33 PM

Bobcat Debate 73 wrote:

+1, in a way.

I'm hoping that by the time the college basketball season starts, the science and medical professionals will have found solutions for us to be able to have a sense of normal that is say, half or 75% of what we used to be able to do.

The flip side, just because of the timing, is that I truly have no expectation of having a college football season - at least not in Ohio. And being honest, if nothing changes about what we know today, at this moment in time, I have no intent on being in Athens for a football game this fall. Maybe something will change - maybe they'll figure out something out that will change my point of view. Maybe not. The only thing I know is that if campuses aren't full time, in person in the way they were a year ago in the late summer and early fall, there is no way there should be football played.

I hope all of this changes, and we can all look forward to Homecoming and tailgating this fall. I just don't see it happening, because it's really only about 3 1/2 months away.

cbus cat fan
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RE: Working though this

Posted: 5/11/2020 4:25:54 PM

If you truly want to be scientific and data driven, you would have a better chance of being injured in a car crash on your way to Peden than catching the virus on a warm September day. The studies show that it is almost impossible for the virus to survive in that kind of environment. I will be there and hopefully so will lots of others.

I am curious if anyone thought twice about coming to Peden during the H2N2 1957 virus and the 1968 H3N2 virus?
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1968-pandemic....

SBH
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
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RE: Working though this

Posted: 5/11/2020 4:34:13 PM

Please cite your "studies." Our friends in Mexico and other arid climes would like to see them.

Last Edited: 5/11/2020 4:35:26 PM by SBH

cbus cat fan
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RE: Working though this

Posted: 5/11/2020 6:43:56 PM

The Corona Virus task force studies done at Fort Detrick (Maryland Research Facility.) Virus can last hours in a meat packing plant, only two minutes in summer sun. Pretty common knowledge stuff, which is why Germany is opening schools and youth sports.
https://www.france24.com/en/20200424-usa-coronavirus-covi...

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Working though this

Posted: 5/11/2020 6:50:31 PM

cbus cat fan wrote:

Looks like you've come around on the expert class.

cbus cat fan
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RE: Working though this

Posted: 5/11/2020 7:27:41 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

cbus cat fan wrote:

Looks like you've come around on the expert class.

Not on the self appointed expert class, only the real experts. It takes a little critical thinking to know the difference.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Working though this

Posted: 5/11/2020 9:18:55 PM

cbus cat fan wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

cbus cat fan wrote:

Looks like you've come around on the expert class.

Not on the self appointed expert class, only the real experts. It takes a little critical thinking to know the difference.

Just trying to get on the same page.

So the CDC and the Coronavirus Task Force that Trump appointed -- are those real experts? Because a few weeks ago you were here talking about how the "self appointed expert class" let us down, and how there wasn't even going to be 40,000 deaths. Now we're at 80,000, averaging 3,000 a day and will almost certainly hit the 100,000 number the CDC and Coronavirus Task Force predicted. And those were the numbers that a few weeks ago you insisted were outlandish. You were posting Alex Berenson links. You remember him, right? Which is he? Real expert, or self-appointed expert. Because last I remember, he was was pointing out that the flaws with the University of Washington model that predicted 90,000 deaths by August because of how outlandish that was. He said we wouldn't ever get to 60k. We'll hit 90,000 deaths by Friday.

Just want to make sure I'm keeping up and thinking critically. Is Alex Berenson a real expert or a self appointed expert? What about the Coronavirus Task Force and CDC, whose models the White House are relying on? Real experts or self-appointed?

And who were the experts you were citing a few weeks back who were predicting 40,000 deaths? Are they real are self-appointed?

I completely get why people are angry. I get why people are frustrated. Our leaders undoubtedly let us down. But you're completely missing who the 'self appointed experts' are that failed us here. It's plainly obvious to just about everybody else.

As a country, we waited far too long to reckon with this, still don't have manufacturing where it needs to be, and don't have testing in a place where we can re-open safely. So we're just going to force the issue, and reopen without proper measures in place because our leadership has left us with no choice. They've fundamentally failed this test.

L.C.
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Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
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RE: Working though this

Posted: 5/11/2020 9:59:03 PM

cbus cat fan wrote:

We will know a lot more by fall about what works, and what isn't a good idea.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

Mark Lembright '85
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Member Since: 8/22/2010
Location: Highland Heights, OH
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RE: Working though this

Posted: 5/12/2020 9:28:00 AM

Not even the so-called experts are in agreement. Dr. Deborah Birx, who is on the Coronavirus Task Force and has appeared at the press conferences frequently with Dr. Fauci, was quoted this past weekend according to the Washington Post as saying she doesn't trust any numbers coming from the CDC; she believes the numbers are inflated:

"Dr. Deborah Birx, the White House's coronavirus task force response coordinator, blasted the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention during a discussion on COVID-19 data in a recent meeting, The Washington Post reported on Saturday.

"There is nothing from the CDC that I can trust," she told CDC Director Robert Redfield, two people familiar with the meeting told the newspaper.

The Post reported that Birx and others feared that the CDC's data-tracking system was inflating coronavirus statistics like mortality rates and case numbers by up to 25%."

The above quote is from an article in Businessinsider.com on May 10th. She went on to say that the mortality rates were slowly declining each day.

Alan Swank
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: Working though this

Posted: 5/12/2020 10:17:18 AM

To make it simply, why don't we cut and paste from another thread all of these arguments both for and against what is being done and what has been done. Until then, I'm wearing a mask if I ever enter another public building (only been in three since March 17).

L.C.
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Location: United States
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RE: Working though this

Posted: 5/12/2020 11:16:49 PM

The simple solution is to have everyone wear a mask. If every sick person wears a mask, there is no one left to spread it. Since the spreaders with the highest viral load are asymptiomatic, and don't realize they are sick, how do you make sure every sick person is wearing a mask? Simple, have everyone wear a mask. Best of all, you don't even need everyone. A recent study says that if 80% of people wear a mask, the infection rate would plummet (however, if only 30% wear masks, it masks almost most difference):
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/05/masks-covid-19-in...

Does it really work? In countries that have required everyone to wear masks, like the Czech Republic, infections dropped sharply.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Working though this

Posted: 5/13/2020 9:19:25 AM

L.C. wrote:

Yep, agreed. It seems like a key tenant of a safe re-opening. Unfortunately, wearing masks has already been politicized and there are folks (mostly) on the right who are pushing back on mask requirements as an infringement on their freedom. Groups have arranged Costco boycotts because Costco has required masks, the President has been clear that he won't wear a mask in public because it "presents the wrong image", and there's a crazy 29 minute Loose Change style documentary going around about how masks actually "activate" the virus and are causing spread.

I understand -- even if I don't fully agree -- when people say that the economic toll may be worse than the public health toll, and we've got to reopen. I understand why people are frustrated and scared. What I don't understand, at all, is how many people seem to feel that the only way to re-open is to ignore the threat at all. No testing, no masks, no distancing. That feels like a view that's disconnected from reality. Longing for things to go back to how they were makes perfect sense. But things will be and have to be different until there's a vaccine and the infrastructure to administer said vaccine.

Deciduous Forest Cat
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Location: Ohio
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RE: Working though this

Posted: 5/13/2020 10:40:14 AM

L.C. wrote:

True, but I also ask you to consider freedom and guns!!

Alan Swank
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RE: Working though this

Posted: 5/13/2020 11:54:44 AM

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

L.C. wrote:

True, but I also ask you to consider freedom and guns!!

The abuse of both may eventually kill us. We need to get over this "well it's my rights" attitude.

cbus cat fan
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RE: Working though this

Posted: 5/13/2020 1:07:16 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

L.C. wrote:

True, but I also ask you to consider freedom and guns!!

The abuse of both may eventually kill us. We need to get over this "well it's my rights" attitude.

"Freedom and Guns"
"We need to get over this, well it's my rights attitude."

If in November you guys run on that sort of a platform (the two slogans mentioned above,) you won't win a single swing state and probably will have to settle for winning about 9 states, all centered on the West Coast and the coastal Northeast. Those two slogans might well win us Minnesota for the first time since 1972.

Last Edited: 5/13/2020 1:09:43 PM by cbus cat fan

Alan Swank
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RE: Working though this

Posted: 5/13/2020 1:52:11 PM

Nobody is going to run on that but this me first, me second and the hell with you attitude may eventually kill us. Sometimes our freedoms and how so many abuse them are our own worst enemy. To invoke the Bible - Matthew 7:12 In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you. For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets. Not wearing a mask in crowded spaces surely violates that tenet of decency.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Working though this

Posted: 5/13/2020 1:57:53 PM

cbus cat fan wrote:

Whatever happened to "it's the economy, stupid"?

Winning re-election in the midst of a straight up depression, with the unemployment rate at 14.7% all because of a crisis that rational people can see was horribly mismanaged is going to be a huge, uphill battle for Trump.

It's only his hardcore base who is willing to make excuses endlessly for him. To the rest of the country, he's still a President who was historically unpopular even before he failed miserably in his handling of this crisis and the unemployment rate jumped by 10% in 3 weeks.

It's no wonder the Right's actively trying to make this a referendum on some vague sense of "freedom" being impeded by Democratic Governors. It's literally their only hope, and it's a long-shot at that. Those Democratic Governor's all have approval ratings higher than Trump's. There's a vocal minority out there that are boycotting any place asking you to wear a mask and showing up at rallies in paramilitary cosplay outfits, but they're a very small group and they were already voting for Trump.

The rest of the country see a child who is in completely over his head and has handled a national crisis about as poorly as a national crisis can be handled. In the Presidential election, the RIght's only hope is to keep turnout as low as possible. Which they'll undoubtedly try to do, as always.

Last Edited: 5/13/2020 2:05:00 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

BillyTheCat
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RE: Working though this

Posted: 5/13/2020 5:18:48 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

L.C. wrote:

Yet none of those clowns can show how masks are a violation of freedoms. If a baker can refuse a cake,a store owner can deny service based on a mask in a pandemic.

BillyTheCat
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RE: Working though this

Posted: 5/13/2020 5:19:32 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

L.C. wrote:

True, but I also ask you to consider freedom and guns!!

The abuse of both may eventually kill us. We need to get over this "well it's my rights" attitude.

But one person in point to any violation of their constitutional rights.

BillyTheCat
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RE: Working though this

Posted: 5/13/2020 5:22:56 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

Not one freedom of the constitution has been abridged. Furthermore of the 10 amendments in the Bill of Rights none has ever been proven to be an absolute amendment. Only the 3rd was has never been challenged. with the other nine, we constitution clearly decided they are not absolute

cbus cat fan
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RE: Working though this

Posted: 5/13/2020 9:18:52 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

cbus cat fan wrote:

I realize with the Flynn unmasking story breaking today and the open Dem seat in California going to a Republican with a 12 point margin to boot, it hasn't been he best of days in Camp Left, which must be the reason why our friends on the Left are sounding even more hilarious than usual. First off, Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame's post sounds positively desperate and then we have Billy's lecture on the Constitution, which is absolutely priceless. Well for what it's worth, Senator Biden aptly looking like the Sleepy Joe character that Trump so often mocks during the Stepanopolous interview with his Sargent Schultz "I know nothing answer," is going to be priceless in a Trump ad.

I almost forgot that AOC is now a Biden advisor. You can't make this stuff up. How is that going to play in swing states, especially states where fracking is a big deal? The Green New Deal is about as popular in swing states as Bernie's answer about the Cuban Literacy Program under the Castro brothers. It's only going to get worse from here, despite the best efforts of the media elites and their lapdogs in the self professed professional elite class, Biden's best days were when the party powers that be strong armed the other candidates out of the rest. Those were the best of times, but those days are gone.

Last Edited: 5/13/2020 10:07:45 PM by cbus cat fan

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Working though this

Posted: 5/13/2020 9:38:44 PM

cbus cat fan wrote:

I realize with the Flynn unmasking story breaking today it hasn't been he best of days in Camp Left. Sleepy Joe looking like a dear in the headlights during the Stepanopolous interview with his Sargent Schultz "I know nothing answer" is going to be priceless in a Trump ad. It's only going to get worse from here, despite the best efforts of the media elites and their lapdogs in the self professed professional elite class, Biden's best days were when the party powers that be strong armed the other candidates out of the rest. Those were the best of times, but those days are gone.

It's very, very surprising that you've changed the subject. But yeah, you've got your finger on the pulse, for sure. The defining issue of this election's definitely going to be Michael Flynn and not the fact that we're in a global depression and 2,000 Americans are dying everyday. It's almost like, oh I dunno, the entire Michael Flynn thing was a desperate attempt to change the subject by the administration, too.

There's no defending Trump's handling of this. If there were, you wouldn't keep obviously avoiding it over and over.

Last Edited: 5/13/2020 9:43:17 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

BryanHall
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RE: Working though this

Posted: 5/13/2020 9:45:42 PM

I stopped in to read about the Bobcats and I can't believe actually read through this thread. Isn't there like 4,023 other platforms to about this on? I recommend Twit-ter for one.

cbus cat fan
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RE: Working though this

Posted: 5/13/2020 10:03:10 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

Alan brings up an interesting point; the truth. When Jesus uttered those famous words he was living in a system where the Pharisees had lost their popularity because of their hypocrisy. Jesus challenged them many times while only butting heads with the Sadducces once. They Pharisees didn't much like the Sadducees and they refused to be challenged by the likes of Jesus or anyone else. The Romans certainly weren't going to challenged and they had horrendously evil ways of dealing with those who did. The point being if you don't let others state their facts, you end up paying a price in the end. Joseph Stalin thought he had the upper hand on squelching faith in the USSR when he famously asked, how many divisions does the pope have? I am sure old Uncle Joe is even more miserable in hell than one might otherwise expect knowing the Russian Orthodox Patriarch has more power and influence in Russia than any bishop or cardinal does in any western country.

The problem with the those who refuse to accept anyone's opinion but the self appointed media's hand picked stars is that eventually some of their theories are going to be proven wrong. Dr. Fauci warned this might happen and has stated he may be wrong on occasion. He has on numerous occasions stating in February that the virus was nothing to be worried about, and then in early March saying lock downs wouldn't be necessary. Senator Rand Paul caused a stir in the Senate Health care hearing the other days when he not only took on the good doctor, but brought up the Swedish model which has been mocked by much of the health care elites.

Yet Stockholm's chief Epidemiologist says the city will be at herd immunity in about one month. This means if there is a second wave, they will be by and large protected, he said. He concluded that short of a vaccine this is the only way to root out the virus, keep the vulnerable protected and the healthy out and about in public. Again, a theory but not any less valuable than permanent lock downs. You can find plenty of credible people online who say wearing a mask in a cold meat packing plant is wise, but far less wise in the summer heat where the virus has a hard time surviving for more than a couple of minutes with direct contact. The long and short of it that for whatever reason, some in the media have picked their favorites and anyone who doesn't toe their line is uncaring, unsafe and unscientific, no matter the credentials they may possess.

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