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Back to Top ohio9704 General User Member Since: 2/11/2006 Post Count: 1,534 Status: Offline     RE: OT: OHSAA expands HS playoffs to 12 teams per region    Posted: 5/26/2020 12:06:37 AM  Jeff McKinney wrote: I'm against it. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Grab Back to Top roger General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: durham, NC Post Count: 115 Status: Offline     RE: OT: OHSAA expands HS playoffs to 12 teams per region    Posted: 5/26/2020 6:33:41 AM  I’m with Jeff! Back to Top UpSan Bobcat General User Member Since: 8/30/2005 Location: Upper Sandusky, OH Post Count: 3,800 Status: Offline     RE: OT: OHSAA expands HS playoffs to 12 teams per region    Posted: 5/26/2020 7:53:22 AM  Everyone keeps saying it's about money, but it was a proposal from the coaches' association. They're the ones who wanted it. That said, I have mixed feelings about it. I know the reason they wanted it is because there have been a couple of really good teams get left out of the playoffs in loaded regions (undefeated Gibsonburg this past year in a region where there were eight teams that were 9-1 or better plus 8-2 Coldwater), but at the same time, I don't think those teams were so good they could have won a state title. Especially in Division I, because there are significantly fewer teams to begin with, a lot of really mediocre or worse teams are going to qualify. About two-thirds of Division I teams will get into the playoffs. It'll be closer to two-fifths in other divisions. Back to Top BillyTheCat General User Member Since: 10/6/2012 Post Count: 9,998 Status: Offline     RE: OT: OHSAA expands HS playoffs to 12 teams per region    Posted: 5/26/2020 8:56:12 AM  ohio9704 wrote: Jeff McKinney wrote: I'm against it. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Grab Actually it’s not a money grab. This proposal was brought to the OHSAA by the Coaches Association, and supported by the Principal's of the member schools. The OHSAA is run by the member institutions, and after over a year of study and discussion this is what they said they wanted. As for increased revenue, past expansions and creation of the 7th division has not greatly increased revenues. Back to Top BillyTheCat General User Member Since: 10/6/2012 Post Count: 9,998 Status: Offline     RE: OT: OHSAA expands HS playoffs to 12 teams per region    Posted: 5/26/2020 8:56:53 AM  UpSan Bobcat wrote: Everyone keeps saying it's about money, but it was a proposal from the coaches' association. They're the ones who wanted it. That said, I have mixed feelings about it. I know the reason they wanted it is because there have been a couple of really good teams get left out of the playoffs in loaded regions (undefeated Gibsonburg this past year in a region where there were eight teams that were 9-1 or better plus 8-2 Coldwater), but at the same time, I don't think those teams were so good they could have won a state title. Especially in Division I, because there are significantly fewer teams to begin with, a lot of really mediocre or worse teams are going to qualify. About two-thirds of Division I teams will get into the playoffs. It'll be closer to two-fifths in other divisions. +1 Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,101 Status: Offline     RE: OT: OHSAA expands HS playoffs to 12 teams per region    Posted: 5/26/2020 11:29:53 AM  Jeff McKinney wrote: I'm against it. Why? Back to Top Jeff McKinney Moderator Member Since: 11/12/2004 Post Count: 6,122 Status: Offline     RE: OT: OHSAA expands HS playoffs to 12 teams per region    Posted: 5/26/2020 11:59:18 AM  Waters down the competition and takes away prestige of making the playoffs. Also, byes sometimes turn out to be a disadvantage. Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,101 Status: Offline     RE: OT: OHSAA expands HS playoffs to 12 teams per region    Posted: 5/26/2020 12:08:28 PM  Jeff McKinney wrote: Waters down the competition and takes away prestige of making the playoffs. Also, byes sometimes turn out to be a disadvantage. So why is football the only sport that doesn't include everybody? A basketball team can go 0 - 20 and get in. Have you seen some of the first round district tournament scores? Back to Top cc-cat General User Member Since: 4/5/2006 Location: matthews, NC Post Count: 3,904 Status: Offline     RE: OT: OHSAA expands HS playoffs to 12 teams per region    Posted: 5/26/2020 12:48:56 PM  BillyTheCat wrote: ohio9704 wrote: Jeff McKinney wrote: I'm against it. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Grab Actually it’s not a money grab. This proposal was brought to the OHSAA by the Coaches Association, and supported by the Principal's of the member schools. The OHSAA is run by the member institutions, and after over a year of study and discussion this is what they said they wanted. As for increased revenue, past expansions and creation of the 7th division has not greatly increased revenues. Coaches job security - "made the playoffs three years in a row." Back to Top BillyTheCat General User Member Since: 10/6/2012 Post Count: 9,998 Status: Offline     RE: OT: OHSAA expands HS playoffs to 12 teams per region    Posted: 5/26/2020 4:29:06 PM  Alan Swank wrote: Jeff McKinney wrote: Waters down the competition and takes away prestige of making the playoffs. Also, byes sometimes turn out to be a disadvantage. So why is football the only sport that doesn't include everybody? A basketball team can go 0 - 20 and get in. Have you seen some of the first round district tournament scores? And everyone loves when 1st round of basketball is 99-3 Back to Top Jeff McKinney Moderator Member Since: 11/12/2004 Post Count: 6,122 Status: Offline     RE: OT: OHSAA expands HS playoffs to 12 teams per region    Posted: 5/26/2020 9:38:13 PM  cc-cat wrote: BillyTheCat wrote: ohio9704 wrote: Jeff McKinney wrote: I'm against it. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Grab Actually it’s not a money grab. This proposal was brought to the OHSAA by the Coaches Association, and supported by the Principal's of the member schools. The OHSAA is run by the member institutions, and after over a year of study and discussion this is what they said they wanted. As for increased revenue, past expansions and creation of the 7th division has not greatly increased revenues. Coaches job security - "made the playoffs three years in a row." Sort of like bowls on the FBS level. Back to Top Jeff McKinney Moderator Member Since: 11/12/2004 Post Count: 6,122 Status: Offline     RE: OT: OHSAA expands HS playoffs to 12 teams per region    Posted: 5/26/2020 9:41:24 PM  Alan Swank wrote: Jeff McKinney wrote: Waters down the competition and takes away prestige of making the playoffs. Also, byes sometimes turn out to be a disadvantage. So why is football the only sport that doesn't include everybody? A basketball team can go 0 - 20 and get in. Have you seen some of the first round district tournament scores? All sports have distinctive characteristics. Not having everyone make the playoffs is one thing I appreciate about football. In basketball, volleyball and baseball, teams can play multiple games in the same week, making it more feasible to have all teams in the playoffs. In football, not so. Back to Top Bobcat1996 General User Member Since: 1/2/2017 Post Count: 903 Status: Offline     RE: OT: OHSAA expands HS playoffs to 12 teams per region    Posted: 5/27/2020 8:50:36 AM  I'm with JeffM on this, as it waters down the sport. In Ohio D1 Region 2 all schools last season finishing in the 9-12 spots were 4-6 on the season. In D1 Region 3 the 12th seeded team Gahanna was 3-7. D1 in Ohio 12 of the 18 teams in each region would make the playoffs. Come on, this is ridiculous. OHSSA can say what they want, but it is a money grab in some sort of way. Last Edited: 5/27/2020 8:52:15 AM by Bobcat1996 Back to Top BillyTheCat General User Member Since: 10/6/2012 Post Count: 9,998 Status: Offline     RE: OT: OHSAA expands HS playoffs to 12 teams per region    Posted: 5/27/2020 4:10:56 PM  Bobcat1996 wrote: I'm with JeffM on this, as it waters down the sport. In Ohio D1 Region 2 all schools last season finishing in the 9-12 spots were 4-6 on the season. In D1 Region 3 the 12th seeded team Gahanna was 3-7. D1 in Ohio 12 of the 18 teams in each region would make the playoffs. Come on, this is ridiculous. OHSSA can say what they want, but it is a money grab in some sort of way. I challenge you to show me the facts it’s a money grab? Again, it’s what the coaches association and schools wanted. Back to Top Bobcat1996 General User Member Since: 1/2/2017 Post Count: 903 Status: Offline     RE: OT: OHSAA expands HS playoffs to 12 teams per region    Posted: 5/27/2020 9:22:05 PM  If OHSSA is in the charitable mood, then maybe the office can donate all the money that is made back to the schools? Every single cent. As it stands now 8 teams qualify in D1 in an 18 team region. This decision may have been made by the coaches association, but OHSSA won't complain as they will be seeing some profits. Take a poll throughout the state of Ohio. I am guessing many fans don't want to see the 12th seed in an 18 team region with 3 wins qualify for the playoffs? Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,101 Status: Offline     RE: OT: OHSAA expands HS playoffs to 12 teams per region    Posted: 5/27/2020 10:02:36 PM  BillyTheCat wrote: Bobcat1996 wrote: I'm with JeffM on this, as it waters down the sport. In Ohio D1 Region 2 all schools last season finishing in the 9-12 spots were 4-6 on the season. In D1 Region 3 the 12th seeded team Gahanna was 3-7. D1 in Ohio 12 of the 18 teams in each region would make the playoffs. Come on, this is ridiculous. OHSSA can say what they want, but it is a money grab in some sort of way. I challenge you to show me the facts it’s a money grab? Again, it’s what the coaches association and schools wanted. I know where you're coming from Billy but as a former multi-term VP of the state volleyball coaches association, there were many times that we put forth proposals in the best interests of the kids and they were shot down by the men in Columbus. Back to Top BillyTheCat General User Member Since: 10/6/2012 Post Count: 9,998 Status: Offline     RE: OT: OHSAA expands HS playoffs to 12 teams per region    Posted: 5/28/2020 4:49:58 PM  Alan Swank wrote: BillyTheCat wrote: Bobcat1996 wrote: I'm with JeffM on this, as it waters down the sport. In Ohio D1 Region 2 all schools last season finishing in the 9-12 spots were 4-6 on the season. In D1 Region 3 the 12th seeded team Gahanna was 3-7. D1 in Ohio 12 of the 18 teams in each region would make the playoffs. Come on, this is ridiculous. OHSSA can say what they want, but it is a money grab in some sort of way. I challenge you to show me the facts it’s a money grab? Again, it’s what the coaches association and schools wanted. I know where you're coming from Billy but as a former multi-term VP of the state volleyball coaches association, there were many times that we put forth proposals in the best interests of the kids and they were shot down by the men in Columbus. Well, key words are “former” which is past (almost 25 years past), New sheriff in town, entirely new administration, and new times. Last Edited: 5/28/2020 4:50:28 PM by BillyTheCat Back to Top UpSan Bobcat General User Member Since: 8/30/2005 Location: Upper Sandusky, OH Post Count: 3,800 Status: Offline     RE: OT: OHSAA expands HS playoffs to 12 teams per region    Posted: 5/29/2020 9:54:21 AM  I think the OHSAA will make a minimal amount of money from this. As noted, the whole idea was not from the OHSAA, though the fact that it is an idea that is even slightly positive for finances I'm sure helped the OHSAA approve it. The whole idea is to give more teams an opportunity. Every team makes the playoffs in Indiana. Teams with winning records make it in Michigan. It's more exclusive in Ohio and still will be (with the exception of Division I). I don't necessarily agree, but I get it. It was done with good intent. Back to Top Bobcat1996 General User Member Since: 1/2/2017 Post Count: 903 Status: Offline     RE: OT: OHSAA expands HS playoffs to 12 teams per region    Posted: 5/29/2020 2:41:11 PM  Other schools with four or less wins in 2019 that would have qualified. D7 Conotton Valley, D6 East canton, D5 Chesapeake, D4 Cardinal Mooney and Field. D3 Archbishop McNicholas at 3-7. Say what you want, but getting in the football playoffs with three wins, just does not seem right? Back to Top OUcats82 General User Member Since: 1/9/2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Post Count: 1,861 Status: Offline     RE: OT: OHSAA expands HS playoffs to 12 teams per region    Posted: 5/29/2020 3:18:34 PM  Bobcat1996 wrote: Other schools with four or less wins in 2019 that would have qualified. D7 Conotton Valley, D6 East canton, D5 Chesapeake, D4 Cardinal Mooney and Field. D3 Archbishop McNicholas at 3-7. Say what you want, but getting in the football playoffs with three wins, just does not seem right? It does to me but the wild thing is some of those teams might actually win a first round game, considering the top 4 seeds get byes. Two of the teams that McNick beat went on to go 15-5 in the regular season. 5 of their 7 losses were to playoff teams so they were battle-tested. But they may be more of an outlier I think. Ohio-The State University Back to Top Buckeye to Bobcat General User Member Since: 9/10/2013 Post Count: 1,803 Status: Offline     RE: OT: OHSAA expands HS playoffs to 12 teams per region    Posted: 5/29/2020 9:05:05 PM  I say it is a money grab along with a security thing. Money Grab: 4 more schools will get to host another playoff game. Another week of ticket sales for local sites that will be home games that go to OHSAA. Allows for officials to work another week of football. Allows for schools to take advantage for concessions and parking revenue. Security: Like someone else said, can't fire a coach if they make the playoffs. Waters down the damn thing. At this point, go back to six 11-man divisions, and make Division VII 8 man football. As someone else also mentioned, I bet within 3 years they're going to argue for a system similar to basketball, where the seeds place themselves on the bracket. That bye week does no one favors and to tell a team to go from playing games to having two weeks off could very easily kill the mojo of teams in a hurry. If betting were allowed on HS football, I would take the best of the 5-8 seeds more often than a Top 4 seed to get to the Final Four of the playoffs due to staying in rhythm. Only way I'd elect to take a bye is if I had a boatload of injuries/suspensions that would need to be taken care of. Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,101 Status: Offline     RE: OT: OHSAA expands HS playoffs to 12 teams per region    Posted: 5/29/2020 10:39:52 PM  Buckeye to Bobcat wrote: I say it is a money grab along with a security thing. Money Grab: 4 more schools will get to host another playoff game. Another week of ticket sales for local sites that will be home games that go to OHSAA. Allows for officials to work another week of football. Allows for schools to take advantage for concessions and parking revenue. Security: Like someone else said, can't fire a coach if they make the playoffs. Waters down the damn thing. At this point, go back to six 11-man divisions, and make Division VII 8 man football. As someone else also mentioned, I bet within 3 years they're going to argue for a system similar to basketball, where the seeds place themselves on the bracket. That bye week does no one favors and to tell a team to go from playing games to having two weeks off could very easily kill the mojo of teams in a hurry. If betting were allowed on HS football, I would take the best of the 5-8 seeds more often than a Top 4 seed to get to the Final Four of the playoffs due to staying in rhythm. Only way I'd elect to take a bye is if I had a boatload of injuries/suspensions that would need to be taken care of. Not sure many districts allow placement on the bracket any longer. It was that way in Akron for many years but down here in the SE district it's get seeded and you go to your assigned spot on the bracket. Back to Top BillyTheCat General User Member Since: 10/6/2012 Post Count: 9,998 Status: Offline     RE: OT: OHSAA expands HS playoffs to 12 teams per region    Posted: 5/29/2020 11:04:54 PM  Alan Swank wrote: Buckeye to Bobcat wrote: I say it is a money grab along with a security thing. Money Grab: 4 more schools will get to host another playoff game. Another week of ticket sales for local sites that will be home games that go to OHSAA. Allows for officials to work another week of football. Allows for schools to take advantage for concessions and parking revenue. Security: Like someone else said, can't fire a coach if they make the playoffs. Waters down the damn thing. At this point, go back to six 11-man divisions, and make Division VII 8 man football. As someone else also mentioned, I bet within 3 years they're going to argue for a system similar to basketball, where the seeds place themselves on the bracket. That bye week does no one favors and to tell a team to go from playing games to having two weeks off could very easily kill the mojo of teams in a hurry. If betting were allowed on HS football, I would take the best of the 5-8 seeds more often than a Top 4 seed to get to the Final Four of the playoffs due to staying in rhythm. Only way I'd elect to take a bye is if I had a boatload of injuries/suspensions that would need to be taken care of. Not sure many districts allow placement on the bracket any longer. It was that way in Akron for many years but down here in the SE district it's get seeded and you go to your assigned spot on the bracket. Only the SE uses pre slotted brackets. Back to Top BillyTheCat General User Member Since: 10/6/2012 Post Count: 9,998 Status: Offline     RE: OT: OHSAA expands HS playoffs to 12 teams per region    Posted: 5/29/2020 11:08:33 PM  Buckeye to Bobcat wrote: I say it is a money grab along with a security thing. Money Grab: 4 more schools will get to host another playoff game. Another week of ticket sales for local sites that will be home games that go to OHSAA. Allows for officials to work another week of football. Allows for schools to take advantage for concessions and parking revenue. Security: Like someone else said, can't fire a coach if they make the playoffs. Waters down the damn thing. At this point, go back to six 11-man divisions, and make Division VII 8 man football. As someone else also mentioned, I bet within 3 years they're going to argue for a system similar to basketball, where the seeds place themselves on the bracket. That bye week does no one favors and to tell a team to go from playing games to having two weeks off could very easily kill the mojo of teams in a hurry. If betting were allowed on HS football, I would take the best of the 5-8 seeds more often than a Top 4 seed to get to the Final Four of the playoffs due to staying in rhythm. Only way I'd elect to take a bye is if I had a boatload of injuries/suspensions that would need to be taken care of. I’m sure you’ve seen all the financials then, I mean you are making the claims, have you actually seen what expansion has brought in? Everyone talks about how the OHSAA is all about the money, he’ll the secretaries at the OHSAA took a 10% pay cut (just like Frank and Jeff), Sport Admins 20% and the Executive Director took a 25% cut. I mean if we are going to lay out how greedy they are, let’s put all the facts out there. 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