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Topic:  News you will not hear from the University:

Topic:  News you will not hear from the University:
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Bobcat110
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Member Since: 3/5/2005
Location: Mount Gilead, OH
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  Message Not Read  News you will not hear from the University:
   Posted: 3/3/2020 6:47:35 PM 
After FIVE MONTHS of digging through the Marching 110's attic...the university found:

* No Hazing
* No Systemic Code of Conduct Violations


The 110 members were finally freed from their cease and desist yesterday, but not before the members were subjected to TWO "interview" sessions. The first session was in December the week before finals. Through those interrogations, the administration reported they did not find systemic code of conduct or hazing violations.

Did they free the band then? Nope....they left the 110 on suspension for another two months and they pushed harder by informing all members on Feb 13th who still wanted be in the band that they were required to submit to a non-systemic code of conduct interview. Members had to verify their worth to the university. If deemed worthy to stay, they then were required to sign and accept enhanced code of conduct and anti-hazing rules.

I am spending $50,000 a year to send two daughters to Ohio University and this is how administration is treating their students. My daughters were suspended from associating with their friends for most of this school year. Try selling that story on prospective High School seniors when enrollment is already decreasing. Want OU to be a glorified high school? Hire some high school administrators. They could have cleared these students in a long weekend. Instead, OU students get the national embarrassment and the pomp and circumstances of huge SUSPENDED!!! headlines.

I feel bad for Faculty. They are the ones losing alumni donations from the fallout and falling student enrollment. Student Affairs Administrators does not have to deal with soliciting money from Alumni or are vested in student enrollment.

Student Affairs told the organizations, their alumni, parents and the local, regional and national media that this was about hazing:

"It is important to note that all remaining reports of hazing are just allegations at this time. If they are not substantiated through an investigation, organizations will not be charged with violations of the Student Code of Conduct."

https://www.ohio.edu/news/2019/10/university-provides-upd...

Then they made it NOT about hazing. Instead, they kept moving the goal posts out as they went until they could come up with a reason for their actions. More damaging than any hazing they thought they were saving students from.
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shabamon
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Location: Cincinnati
Post Count: 6,521

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  Message Not Read  RE: News you will not hear from the University: (NT)
   Posted: 3/3/2020 9:31:33 PM 

Last Edited: 3/3/2020 9:31:48 PM by shabamon
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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,103

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: News you will not hear from the University:
   Posted: 3/3/2020 10:12:23 PM 
Bobcat110 wrote:
After FIVE MONTHS of digging through the Marching 110's attic...the university found:

* No Hazing
* No Systemic Code of Conduct Violations


The 110 members were finally freed from their cease and desist yesterday, but not before the members were subjected to TWO "interview" sessions. The first session was in December the week before finals. Through those interrogations, the administration reported they did not find systemic code of conduct or hazing violations.

Did they free the band then? Nope....they left the 110 on suspension for another two months and they pushed harder by informing all members on Feb 13th who still wanted be in the band that they were required to submit to a non-systemic code of conduct interview. Members had to verify their worth to the university. If deemed worthy to stay, they then were required to sign and accept enhanced code of conduct and anti-hazing rules.

I am spending $50,000 a year to send two daughters to Ohio University and this is how administration is treating their students. My daughters were suspended from associating with their friends for most of this school year. Try selling that story on prospective High School seniors when enrollment is already decreasing. Want OU to be a glorified high school? Hire some high school administrators. They could have cleared these students in a long weekend. Instead, OU students get the national embarrassment and the pomp and circumstances of huge SUSPENDED!!! headlines.

I feel bad for Faculty. They are the ones losing alumni donations from the fallout and falling student enrollment. Student Affairs Administrators does not have to deal with soliciting money from Alumni or are vested in student enrollment.

Student Affairs told the organizations, their alumni, parents and the local, regional and national media that this was about hazing:

"It is important to note that all remaining reports of hazing are just allegations at this time. If they are not substantiated through an investigation, organizations will not be charged with violations of the Student Code of Conduct."

https://www.ohio.edu/news/2019/10/university-provides-upd...

Then they made it NOT about hazing. Instead, they kept moving the goal posts out as they went until they could come up with a reason for their actions. More damaging than any hazing they thought they were saving students from.


Wish I had seen this before 6 so I could have let the dean of students read it over dinner at the next table over and asked what her reaction was. Truly sad.
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rpbobcat
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Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
Post Count: 3,570

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: News you will not hear from the University:
   Posted: 3/4/2020 8:06:04 AM 
Bobcat110 wrote:
After FIVE MONTHS of digging through the Marching 110's attic...the university found:

* No Hazing
* No Systemic Code of Conduct Violations


The 110 members were finally freed from their cease and desist yesterday, but not before the members were subjected to TWO "interview" sessions. The first session was in December the week before finals. Through those interrogations, the administration reported they did not find systemic code of conduct or hazing violations.

Did they free the band then? Nope....they left the 110 on suspension for another two months and they pushed harder by informing all members on Feb 13th who still wanted be in the band that they were required to submit to a non-systemic code of conduct interview. Members had to verify their worth to the university. If deemed worthy to stay, they then were required to sign and accept enhanced code of conduct and anti-hazing rules.

I am spending $50,000 a year to send two daughters to Ohio University and this is how administration is treating their students. My daughters were suspended from associating with their friends for most of this school year. Try selling that story on prospective High School seniors when enrollment is already decreasing. Want OU to be a glorified high school? Hire some high school administrators. They could have cleared these students in a long weekend. Instead, OU students get the national embarrassment and the pomp and circumstances of huge SUSPENDED!!! headlines.

I feel bad for Faculty. They are the ones losing alumni donations from the fallout and falling student enrollment. Student Affairs Administrators does not have to deal with soliciting money from Alumni or are vested in student enrollment.

Student Affairs told the organizations, their alumni, parents and the local, regional and national media that this was about hazing:

"It is important to note that all remaining reports of hazing are just allegations at this time. If they are not substantiated through an investigation, organizations will not be charged with violations of the Student Code of Conduct."

https://www.ohio.edu/news/2019/10/university-provides-upd...

Then they made it NOT about hazing. Instead, they kept moving the goal posts out as they went until they could come up with a reason for their actions. More damaging than any hazing they thought they were saving students from.


As is evident from my previous posts,I've been following this since it first became public.

My thoughts :

1.This whole thing was mishandled from day 1.
Issuing cease and desist orders to all members of the IFC,even those
with no allegations of hazing made no sense.

Also,if O.U. was so concerned,why didn't they issue a cease and desist to ALL
Fraternities,Sororities and other campus organizations ?

2.The "qualifications"/"training" for investigators was laughable.

3.O.U. seemed to have an inordinate amount of hostility toward the 110.
When my wife and I were out at O.U. last November,we heard the word "vendetta"
used more then once.

4.There appeared to be no urgency in resolving the accusations,especially
when it came to the 110.

5.Funny,how O.U and The Post didn't show the same fervor for announcing
when organizations were "cleared" as when they were accused.

Yes,as Bobcat110 said,the matter is resolved .
But the damage to organizations and their members and staff is done.

I've said it before,and I'll say it again,based on how the whole thing was handled Nellis,JHJ and Taylor J Tackett have to go.

I've recently received a couple of Fund Raising Requests from O.U.

I've politely told them that,I would continue to contribute to the 110 and
Ohio Wrestling.
But,until Nellis,JHJ and TJT are gone,I will no longer make any other contributions.
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doubledribble
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Post Count: 556

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  Message Not Read  RE: News you will not hear from the University:
   Posted: 3/4/2020 9:54:58 PM 
rpbobcat,
Lots of people share your feelings that this "investigation" was mishandled, and continues to be mishandled.
I have a number of friends who are Beta alums, and from the information I have been hearing from them, the treatment they have been getting from the administration is hard to believe. If they carry out the suggested penalty that I have heard about, a large group of very well to do Ohio Alums are planning to step away from Ohio University to the tune of just under 1 Million per year.
Someone in the administration needs to step in and see that any punishment needs to "fit' any wrong doing that was found.
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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,103

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: News you will not hear from the University:
   Posted: 3/5/2020 7:27:36 PM 
doubledribble wrote:
rpbobcat,
Lots of people share your feelings that this "investigation" was mishandled, and continues to be mishandled.
I have a number of friends who are Beta alums, and from the information I have been hearing from them, the treatment they have been getting from the administration is hard to believe. If they carry out the suggested penalty that I have heard about, a large group of very well to do Ohio Alums are planning to step away from Ohio University to the tune of just under 1 Million per year.
Someone in the administration needs to step in and see that any punishment needs to "fit' any wrong doing that was found.


dd, you bring up a very interesting point - the local financial connections to OU. By local, I don't mean just Athens area residents but folks who regularly "come home" with arms and wallets spread wide. But it's more than these few people's wallets, it's their praise for or criticsim of their alma mater that matters most. Ancecdotally speaking, 43 years out from Muskingum, I still can raise money or encourage enrollment with a conversation of phone call - not on the level of this group that contributes a million year but on a scale that makes sense to a small 183 year old liberal arts college. Alumi engagement is the lifeblood of an institution. These carpetbaggers just don't get that.
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rpbobcat
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Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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  Message Not Read  RE: News you will not hear from the University:
   Posted: 3/6/2020 6:40:49 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:


5.Funny,how O.U and The Post didn't show the same fervor for announcing
when organizations were "cleared" as when they were accused.



Just a quick follow up to this.

There's an article in today's The Post about the University cancelling the
110's Japan Trip.

Yet,unless I missed it ,they have never mentioned them being cleared.

I sent an email to The reporter pointing this out.

Let's see what happens.
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Valley Cat
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Location: Jackson Twp., OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: News you will not hear from the University:
   Posted: 3/6/2020 7:02:35 AM 
In a time of dipping enrollment this administration continues to alienate their base of alumni and donors who take great pride in Ohio University. Their handling of this situation is baffling.
I guess I’m starting to sound like a grumpy old alum but my initial impressions of changes in the Athletic Department haven’t exactly been outstanding either.
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Alan Swank
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Location: Athens, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: News you will not hear from the University:
   Posted: 3/6/2020 8:15:17 AM 
Valley Cat wrote:
In a time of dipping enrollment this administration continues to alienate their base of alumni and donors who take great pride in Ohio University. Their handling of this situation is baffling.
I guess I’m starting to sound like a grumpy old alum but my initial impressions of changes in the Athletic Department haven’t exactly been outstanding either.



The changes I've seen have been very positive - student entry to the Convo, Hardwood House, team bench switch for football, etc. What changes have you not liked?
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Bobcat110
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Location: Mount Gilead, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: News you will not hear from the University:
   Posted: 3/6/2020 11:47:34 AM 
https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/ou-concludes-march...

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IceCat76
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Location: Byfield, MA
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  Message Not Read  RE: News you will not hear from the University:
   Posted: 3/6/2020 11:55:36 AM 
Bobcat110 wrote:
https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/ou-concludes-march...



We often wonder what will happen to the "participation trophy" generation when they grow up. Now we know. The University should be embarrassed.

Last Edited: 3/6/2020 11:56:23 AM by IceCat76
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Bobcat110
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Location: Mount Gilead, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: News you will not hear from the University:
   Posted: 3/6/2020 1:15:30 PM 
Hilarious. Unforced porn watching (with clothes on) is a concern, but the university hosts an Adult Toy show in Baker Center and BDSM meeting in Bromley hall the same weekend this report was released.

OFF CAMPUS UNFORCED
Milk chugging
Boxing (without head gear)
Sliding in mud.

Such Heathens. Can’t find Hazing, so the university student affairs people had to keep digging. I could pick 250 random college kids any campus in the US and get same basic results. The university is spending $500,000 per year on Tackett, JHJ and Pina to spend 5 months on this plus take 2 dozen university employees from their day jobs to train and act as investigators, plus hire an outside firm to come up with this.

I don’t understand why they told Athens News that they didn’t know how many members were kicked out. The independent interviewer company didn’t kick any members out and that was told to members last Thursday.

The only thing bothersome was pot on the bus. It supposedly was 2 members on Frisco Bowl trip and one has I guess graduated and the other graduates this year. That trip was 1-1/2 years ago and could have been handled by HS administrator in a weekend. There are 250 members. They use 5 busses (Bus A, B, C, D, and E). They have manifests for each bus. They could clear 200 names just by bus manifests. Plus, no 2019 Freshmen were on that trip. So why put the whole band through 5 months and multiple interviews?

Last Edited: 3/6/2020 1:16:40 PM by Bobcat110
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rpbobcat
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Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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  Message Not Read  RE: News you will not hear from the University:
   Posted: 3/6/2020 1:28:47 PM 
IceCat76 wrote:
Bobcat110 wrote:
https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/ou-concludes-march...



We often wonder what will happen to the "participation trophy" generation when they grow up. Now we know. The University should be embarrassed.


First off,thanks to Bobcat110 for posting the Athens News Article.

As the article says,O.U. was supposed to be investigating the 110 for alleged hazing.

They didn't find anything.

So,lets keep going,including inventing a new category "cultural issues".

That lets O.U. look/act like their inquisition was somehow justified.
They also get to say "see we told you there were problems ".

I really love the last paragraph "27 trained OU investigators".

As I've posted before,O.U.'s "investigators",which included students like RA's, had a single 8 hr.training session.
This is somehow supposed to provide them with the expertise needed to evaluate and rule on the accusations/allegations made against the fraternities,sororities and the 110.

Apparently O.U. and/or their "investigators" allowed "hearsay",including third party hearsay.

"Rules of Evidence",why let that get in the way ?

I also can't believe O.U. forced all members of the 110 to sign an "I promise to be good" pledge.

In my opinion,O.U.should be ashamed of themselves for how they handled this whole matter and, especially in the case of the 110,they should apologize to the members and staff.

Last Edited: 3/6/2020 1:40:14 PM by rpbobcat
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HeHateMiami
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  Message Not Read  RE: News you will not hear from the University:
   Posted: 3/6/2020 2:01:46 PM 
I'm very thankful that a third-party was brought in to investigate. I'm not sure if the 110 would have been cleared without an unbiased party taking a look at what was going on. This whole tale has been troubling and this Athens News article feels to me like the university administration trying to save face by grasping at "Cultural Issues" instead of loudly saying that no hazing was found and moving on.

I'm going to have to vote with my wallet on this one. I don't like feeling this way about OU, but here we are.
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MonroeClassmate
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Member Since: 8/31/2010
Post Count: 2,076

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  Message Not Read  RE: News you will not hear from the University:
   Posted: 3/6/2020 10:44:30 PM 
IceCat76 wrote:
Bobcat110 wrote:
https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/ou-concludes-march...



We often wonder what will happen to the "participation trophy" generation when they grow up. Now we know. The University should be embarrassed.


Yes, but BULLY for the BOBCAT SEVEN! They said, take this trophy and shove it. Giving up something they no doubt LOVE to exercise their right to free expression. Comrade you must go to the re-education camp or you may no longer play your instrument and march in the band.

In her intercourse with the education of students may OUr University always be right; but my University right or wrong. NOT
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MonroeClassmate
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  Message Not Read  RE: News you will not hear from the University:
   Posted: 3/6/2020 10:55:19 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
IceCat76 wrote:
Bobcat110 wrote:
https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/ou-concludes-march...



We often wonder what will happen to the "participation trophy" generation when they grow up. Now we know. The University should be embarrassed.


First off,thanks to Bobcat110 for posting the Athens News Article.

As the article says,O.U. was supposed to be investigating the 110 for alleged hazing.

They didn't find anything.

So,lets keep going,including inventing a new category "cultural issues".

That lets O.U. look/act like their inquisition was somehow justified.
They also get to say "see we told you there were problems ".

I really love the last paragraph "27 trained OU investigators".

As I've posted before,O.U.'s "investigators",which included students like RA's, had a single 8 hr.training session.
This is somehow supposed to provide them with the expertise needed to evaluate and rule on the accusations/allegations made against the fraternities,sororities and the 110.

Apparently O.U. and/or their "investigators" allowed "hearsay",including third party hearsay.

"Rules of Evidence",why let that get in the way ?

I also can't believe O.U. forced all members of the 110 to sign an "I promise to be good" pledge.

In my opinion,O.U.should be ashamed of themselves for how they handled this whole matter and, especially in the case of the 110,they should apologize to the members and staff.


Bump, Bump Bump
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OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,354

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  Message Not Read  RE: News you will not hear from the University:
   Posted: 3/7/2020 12:00:32 AM 
MonroeClassmate wrote:
IceCat76 wrote:
Bobcat110 wrote:
https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/ou-concludes-march...



We often wonder what will happen to the "participation trophy" generation when they grow up. Now we know. The University should be embarrassed.


Yes, but BULLY for the BOBCAT SEVEN! They said, take this trophy and shove it. Giving up something they no doubt LOVE to exercise their right to free expression. Comrade you must go to the re-education camp or you may no longer play your instrument and march in the band.

In her intercourse with the education of students may OUr University always be right; but my University right or wrong. NOT



+1

I agree entirely. students do not "shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate.”

This is what Justice Abe Fortis said in the majority opinion he wrote in Tinker vs. Des Moines Independent School District (1969). Here's just a little more from that decision that should be read by the upper Ohio University administrators:

"In our system, state-operated schools may not be enclaves of totalitarianism. School officials do not possess absolute authority over their students. Students . . . are possessed of fundamental rights which the State must respect, just as they themselves must respect their obligations to the State. In our system, students may not be regarded as closed-circuit recipients of only that which the State chooses to communicate. They may not be confined to the expression of those sentiments that are officially approved. In the absence of a specific showing of constitutionally valid reasons to regulate their speech, students are entitled to freedom of expression of their views."

If this applies to high school students, it certainly ought to apply even more to college students.

Let me humbly suggest that they also take that dusty copy of the U.S. Constitution off the shelf and read and then re-read the First Amendment:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Though initially this applied only to the U.S. government and not state governments, in the wake of the passage of the 14th Amendment, the Supreme Court ruled that a clause in that amendment made these provisions applicable to the states.


Last Edited: 3/7/2020 12:06:24 AM by OhioCatFan

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: News you will not hear from the University:
   Posted: 3/7/2020 6:55:10 AM 
RP, kind of curious where Mr Moral crusader went, Mr. we’ve got to be diligent on these serious crime and ban them all has went? Seems awfully quiet in the face of such serious allegations
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mf279801
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  Message Not Read  RE: News you will not hear from the University:
   Posted: 3/7/2020 10:01:22 AM 
“Among members organization-wide, recurring nicknames were used, including “old men,” “zeros,” “dumb-” and “stupid freshmen.””

The horror! How is it these monsters weren’t charged with terrorism and attempted murder for these vile crimes.

They need to clean house. Anyone involved (in the administration side, that is) with this farce needs to be sacked. As much time as is necessary should be taken, however, to find or create a justification for firing them with cause (so that they are owed no severance...if possible, stripping them of any PERS credit in the process)
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: News you will not hear from the University:
   Posted: 3/7/2020 2:08:30 PM 
mf279801 wrote:
“Among members organization-wide, recurring nicknames were used, including “old men,” “zeros,” “dumb-” and “stupid freshmen.””

The horror! How is it these monsters weren’t charged with terrorism and attempted murder for these vile crimes.

They need to clean house. Anyone involved (in the administration side, that is) with this farce needs to be sacked. As much time as is necessary should be taken, however, to find or create a justification for firing them with cause (so that they are owed no severance...if possible, stripping them of any PERS credit in the process)


Following that line of reasoning, looks like we're in jeopardy of a cease and desist order on playing in Cleveland next week. From yesterday's Post:

J ordan Dartis seems at ease as he coasts through his pregame rituals. Walking from one end of The Convo floor to the other, he flashes his pearly white teeth as he shares laughs with his Ohio teammates.

One of the few in sweatpants, Dartis, 23, is the oldest player on the floor.

Teammates and coaches tease him about his age, too. Some call him “Old Man,” a nickname that fits because he’s two years older than almost everyone on the youngest roster in the Mid-American Conference.

“Ah, the ‘Old Man!’” Dartis said. He laughs heartily and shakes his head. “We’re just clowning, man. We’re having a good time. It just takes me a little longer to get warmed up.”
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Bobcatzblitz
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  Message Not Read  RE: News you will not hear from the University:
   Posted: 3/7/2020 4:02:53 PM 
Really?
You've got many legitimate concerns but you lost everything when you claimed "Worse than what they were trying to save the students from (Hazing)
Because no one with ANY commonsense thinks what you describe is worse than Death.
No one.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: News you will not hear from the University:
   Posted: 3/8/2020 12:25:47 PM 
Now its The Post's turn.

www.thepostathens.com/article/2020/03/marching-110-cease-...

The headline makes their position crystal clear.
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MonroeClassmate
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  Message Not Read  RE: News you will not hear from the University:
   Posted: 3/8/2020 1:39:37 PM 
The editors probably got the word from administration to tow the line or the Post would be next!
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Bobcat110
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  Message Not Read  RE: News you will not hear from the University:
   Posted: 3/8/2020 2:57:09 PM 
Bobcatzblitz wrote:
Really?
You've got many legitimate concerns but you lost everything when you claimed "Worse than what they were trying to save the students from (Hazing)
Because no one with ANY commonsense thinks what you describe is worse than Death.
No one.


Suk has been director for 24 years - 0 deaths
The Marching 110 existed since 1967 - 0 deaths


Why are you blindly trusting a 30 year-old Visual Arts major with barely 4 years work experience over people who have been running the 110 since he was in preschool? You’d think the results of the “hazing” / “not hazing” investigation would have killed that.
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rpbobcat
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Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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  Message Not Read  RE: News you will not hear from the University:
   Posted: 3/9/2020 6:50:19 AM 
MonroeClassmate wrote:
The editors probably got the word from administration to tow the line or the Post would be next!


That's part of it, I'm sure.

When the story about fraternities first broke, The Post enthusiastically supported shutting them down.

I don't recall The Post ever doing a follow up when they were cleared.

So I'm sure a number of The Post staff are in full agreement with the administration when it comes to evil organizations like fraternities and
the 110.

The reporter I wrote to said they were "currently looking at doing a larger story that discusses all of the studying organizations".

Let's see if that ever gets published.
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