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Topic:  Rod Carey to Temple?

Topic:  Rod Carey to Temple?
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Ted Thompson
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  Message Not Read  Rod Carey to Temple?
   Posted: 1/10/2019 7:43:22 AM 

Source: Northern Illinois' Rod Carey likely front-runner for Temple coaching job

Follow Ohio Football recruiting on the BobcatAttack.com football recruiting database.

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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rod Carey to Temple?
   Posted: 1/10/2019 8:30:08 AM 
Ted Thompson wrote:
http://www.philly.com/college-sports/rod-carey-temple-foo...


If he moves this year does that allow recruits from 2019 to reconsider their signed letters?

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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ExCat21
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rod Carey to Temple?
   Posted: 1/10/2019 6:14:43 PM 
Looking at EMU Coach too: https://www.hustlebelt.com/2019/1/10/18176854/eastern-mic...
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ExCat21
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rod Carey to Temple?
   Posted: 1/10/2019 6:17:05 PM 
Not calling you out BShot44 but this is why I dont want a new hire at this time. Read the last paragraph of this article:

"Unfortunately this is the way of life for a follower of a Group Five team. You get to watch your team make a good hire only to watch the same guy end up somewhere else for more money. Sometimes the team will revert to the way they were before the hire and sometimes they don’t. If the rumors prove to be true, I hope it’s a case of the latter and not the former."

The grass isn't always greener. And the players may not respond to the new coach the way most think they would. We only responded to Coach Solich that way in 2005 because we desperately wanted the old regime out. And when McDavis personally phoned some us tenured players over winter break about Solich...we said "make the move." I love that McDavis wanted to know our thoughts before Solich was hired.

Last Edited: 1/10/2019 6:20:02 PM by ExCat21
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catfan28
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rod Carey to Temple?
   Posted: 1/10/2019 6:21:28 PM 
This is an interesting read on MAC coach hirings/firings: https://medium.com/fosat/mac-football-coach-changes-rod-c...
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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rod Carey to Temple?
   Posted: 1/10/2019 8:27:42 PM 
catfan28 wrote:
This is an interesting read on MAC coach hirings/firings: https://medium.com/fosat/mac-football-coach-changes-rod-c...


Catfan28, very interesting article, there's a lot to digest there. I am sure I am not the only one mulling over all of this data.
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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rod Carey to Temple?
   Posted: 1/11/2019 8:59:09 AM 
ExCat21 wrote:
Not calling you out BShot44 but this is why I dont want a new hire at this time. Read the last paragraph of this article:

"Unfortunately this is the way of life for a follower of a Group Five team. You get to watch your team make a good hire only to watch the same guy end up somewhere else for more money. Sometimes the team will revert to the way they were before the hire and sometimes they don’t. If the rumors prove to be true, I hope it’s a case of the latter and not the former."

The grass isn't always greener. And the players may not respond to the new coach the way most think they would. We only responded to Coach Solich that way in 2005 because we desperately wanted the old regime out. And when McDavis personally phoned some us tenured players over winter break about Solich...we said "make the move." I love that McDavis wanted to know our thoughts before Solich was hired.


My friend ... I'm not really sure how much clearer I can be ...

I AM NOT SAYING OHIO SHOULD FIRE FRANK SOLICH.

PERIOD.

My point is:

A) I'm not sure this staff will ever deliver a MACC. It's been 14 years. We all know the numbers

B) Frank is 74 ... they're going to have replace him at some point when he retires in the next 2-3 years I'm guessing.

Thought this was interesting in The Medium article ...

"Bottom line: replacing championship level coaches is really damn hard, and mostly everyone sucks at it.

Now for the sunnier picture. If a program is already consistently dominant, its floor tends to be a lot higher. So even if there’s a noticeable decrease in overall quality, the results are still pretty damn good. This is the Rod Carey Problem."

Well, by definition Solich isn't a championship level coach. BUT ... he's built a pretty strong program. I hesitate to say consistent dominant because of the lack of titles ... but my point is, he's built a very strong foundation that should be able to handle a transition to a new coach and not bottom out like weaker programs in the league like Kent or Akron.

Ohio is consistently good ... and that's because of Frank.

It won't be a Knorr/Grobe thing. Grobe had a couple good years, but wasn't here long enough to really build a strong program.

Frank has ... and if Ohio hires correctly, whoever they hand the keys to should be able to keep the ship afloat and even build off that strong foundation.
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Kevin Finnegan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rod Carey to Temple?
   Posted: 1/11/2019 10:13:26 AM 
catfan28 wrote:
This is an interesting read on MAC coach hirings/firings: https://medium.com/fosat/mac-football-coach-changes-rod-c...


Most interesting is that OHIO's 2017 season was the second-best MAC season in the last 14 years of any team. Ah, what could've been...
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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rod Carey to Temple?
   Posted: 1/11/2019 12:04:59 PM 
ExCat21 wrote:
Not calling you out BShot44 but this is why I dont want a new hire at this time. Read the last paragraph of this article:

"Unfortunately this is the way of life for a follower of a Group Five team. You get to watch your team make a good hire only to watch the same guy end up somewhere else for more money. Sometimes the team will revert to the way they were before the hire and sometimes they don’t. If the rumors prove to be true, I hope it’s a case of the latter and not the former."

The grass isn't always greener. And the players may not respond to the new coach the way most think they would. We only responded to Coach Solich that way in 2005 because we desperately wanted the old regime out. And when McDavis personally phoned some us tenured players over winter break about Solich...we said "make the move." I love that McDavis wanted to know our thoughts before Solich was hired.


From the article,

"The Good Football Coach is Gone. What’s Next?
Intuition tells us that things are obviously going to get worse when a good football coach leaves. This is largely correct, but it’s a mixed bag.

First, the bad news. Of the 13 coaching changes identified, seven resulted in a program in recession within three seasons. For all programs that ended up in recession eventually, it took about 3.1 seasons to get there on average."

"Unfortunately, even if the first season of a new coach is better than average, doom is still lurking."

"Bottom line: replacing championship level coaches is really damn hard, and mostly everyone sucks at it."

"14 coaches were fired or retired in the MAC since 2005. Eight of their replacements went on to win division titles and three won MAC titles. For those seven it took an average of 3.6 years to do it. This makes sense for the same reason it takes about three years to destroy a program — the first recruits are contributing significantly at that point."

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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Maddog13
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rod Carey to Temple?
   Posted: 1/11/2019 12:06:01 PM 
The speculation found in Northern Illinois's fan site of who might become the next coach there is a hoot. Kind of looks like what I imagine Bobcatattack.com will look like should we finally win the MAC and Solich retires.

https://csnbbs.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=468
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ExCat21
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rod Carey to Temple?
   Posted: 1/11/2019 1:26:33 PM 
bshot44 wrote:
ExCat21 wrote:
Not calling you out BShot44 but this is why I dont want a new hire at this time. Read the last paragraph of this article:

"Unfortunately this is the way of life for a follower of a Group Five team. You get to watch your team make a good hire only to watch the same guy end up somewhere else for more money. Sometimes the team will revert to the way they were before the hire and sometimes they don’t. If the rumors prove to be true, I hope it’s a case of the latter and not the former."

The grass isn't always greener. And the players may not respond to the new coach the way most think they would. We only responded to Coach Solich that way in 2005 because we desperately wanted the old regime out. And when McDavis personally phoned some us tenured players over winter break about Solich...we said "make the move." I love that McDavis wanted to know our thoughts before Solich was hired.


My friend ... I'm not really sure how much clearer I can be ...

I AM NOT SAYING OHIO SHOULD FIRE FRANK SOLICH.

PERIOD.

My point is:

A) I'm not sure this staff will ever deliver a MACC. It's been 14 years. We all know the numbers

B) Frank is 74 ... they're going to have replace him at some point when he retires in the next 2-3 years I'm guessing.

Thought this was interesting in The Medium article ...

"Bottom line: replacing championship level coaches is really damn hard, and mostly everyone sucks at it.

Now for the sunnier picture. If a program is already consistently dominant, its floor tends to be a lot higher. So even if there’s a noticeable decrease in overall quality, the results are still pretty damn good. This is the Rod Carey Problem."

Well, by definition Solich isn't a championship level coach. BUT ... he's built a pretty strong program. I hesitate to say consistent dominant because of the lack of titles ... but my point is, he's built a very strong foundation that should be able to handle a transition to a new coach and not bottom out like weaker programs in the league like Kent or Akron.

Ohio is consistently good ... and that's because of Frank.

It won't be a Knorr/Grobe thing. Grobe had a couple good years, but wasn't here long enough to really build a strong program.

Frank has ... and if Ohio hires correctly, whoever they hand the keys to should be able to keep the ship afloat and even build off that strong foundation.


I appreciate the response and the healthy debate my friend!!
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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rod Carey to Temple?
   Posted: 1/11/2019 2:15:56 PM 
Bcat2 wrote:
ExCat21 wrote:
Not calling you out BShot44 but this is why I dont want a new hire at this time. Read the last paragraph of this article:

"Unfortunately this is the way of life for a follower of a Group Five team. You get to watch your team make a good hire only to watch the same guy end up somewhere else for more money. Sometimes the team will revert to the way they were before the hire and sometimes they don’t. If the rumors prove to be true, I hope it’s a case of the latter and not the former."

The grass isn't always greener. And the players may not respond to the new coach the way most think they would. We only responded to Coach Solich that way in 2005 because we desperately wanted the old regime out. And when McDavis personally phoned some us tenured players over winter break about Solich...we said "make the move." I love that McDavis wanted to know our thoughts before Solich was hired.


From the article,

"The Good Football Coach is Gone. What’s Next?
Intuition tells us that things are obviously going to get worse when a good football coach leaves. This is largely correct, but it’s a mixed bag.

First, the bad news. Of the 13 coaching changes identified, seven resulted in a program in recession within three seasons. For all programs that ended up in recession eventually, it took about 3.1 seasons to get there on average."

"Unfortunately, even if the first season of a new coach is better than average, doom is still lurking."

"Bottom line: replacing championship level coaches is really damn hard, and mostly everyone sucks at it."

"14 coaches were fired or retired in the MAC since 2005. Eight of their replacements went on to win division titles and three won MAC titles. For those seven it took an average of 3.6 years to do it. This makes sense for the same reason it takes about three years to destroy a program — the first recruits are contributing significantly at that point."



Great job of cherry picking the parts that are doom & gloom.

I encourage everyone to read the full article ... not the truncated green kool-aid bcat2 version.

Basically it says solid programs can withstand a coaching change.

NIU & Toledo were examples ... even CMU to a degree after Kelly/Jones. BG was the other end because they went thru 4 coaches in a little over 5 years.

Do you, bcat2, really think Frank hasn't built a solid enough foundation at Ohio that they'll survive an inevitable coaching change? That would go against your super pro-Solich agenda, wouldn't it?

I don't think anyone is chasing him out of Athens ... so you can let your guard down on that front.

But ignoring the fact he's 74 and can't coach forever is shortsighted. You have to know he's going to retire soon.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rod Carey to Temple?
   Posted: 1/11/2019 2:44:39 PM 
bshot44 wrote:
...
Do you, bcat2, really think Frank hasn't built a solid enough foundation at Ohio that they'll survive an inevitable coaching change? That would go against your super pro-Solich agenda, wouldn't it?...

Let's hope so, but in time we will find out. Here are a couple quotes from the article that pertain to that question:
"If a program is already consistently dominant, its floor tends to be a lot higher. So even if there’s a noticeable decrease in overall quality, the results are still pretty damn good."

"While in-house hires usually mean you’re sacrificing the opportunity to get a program transcending rising-star in favor of someone who actually wants to stay at your program, it seems to work for the dominant teams of the last decade and a half in the MAC. Basically, if you have a culture or formula you like and it seems to work, it’s probably a good idea to keep it."
And this quote is no doubt an anathema to Ohio fans because of the Knorr hire. I would maintain that it really doesn't apply to Knorr, however. Knorr did not take over the existing staff, and maintain the culture or formula. He was a member of the former staff, left behind to start things from scratch, as everyone else moved on.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rod Carey to Temple?
   Posted: 1/11/2019 3:22:12 PM 
L.C. wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
...
Do you, bcat2, really think Frank hasn't built a solid enough foundation at Ohio that they'll survive an inevitable coaching change? That would go against your super pro-Solich agenda, wouldn't it?...

Let's hope so, but in time we will find out. Here are a couple quotes from the article that pertain to that question:
"If a program is already consistently dominant, its floor tends to be a lot higher. So even if there’s a noticeable decrease in overall quality, the results are still pretty damn good."

"While in-house hires usually mean you’re sacrificing the opportunity to get a program transcending rising-star in favor of someone who actually wants to stay at your program, it seems to work for the dominant teams of the last decade and a half in the MAC. Basically, if you have a culture or formula you like and it seems to work, it’s probably a good idea to keep it."
And this quote is no doubt an anathema to Ohio fans because of the Knorr hire. I would maintain that it really doesn't apply to Knorr, however. Knorr did not take over the existing staff, and maintain the culture or formula. He was a member of the former staff, left behind to start things from scratch, as everyone else moved on.


Following bshott44's logic Nebraska, with their solid foundation, should be sitting pretty with multiple CCs to go with Frank's in 99. Instead since 2003 when coach Solich was let go at 9-3 Nebraska is on their fourth coach recording 4-8, 0 CCs. In the mean time Coach has managed to take Ohio, well you all know. I just hope, when the time comes, bshott44 is on the hiring committee so Ohio may be assured of future gains.

Last Edited: 1/11/2019 3:25:00 PM by Bcat2

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rod Carey to Temple?
   Posted: 1/11/2019 4:14:47 PM 
Bcat2 wrote:
L.C. wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
...
Do you, bcat2, really think Frank hasn't built a solid enough foundation at Ohio that they'll survive an inevitable coaching change? That would go against your super pro-Solich agenda, wouldn't it?...

Let's hope so, but in time we will find out. Here are a couple quotes from the article that pertain to that question:
"If a program is already consistently dominant, its floor tends to be a lot higher. So even if there’s a noticeable decrease in overall quality, the results are still pretty damn good."

"While in-house hires usually mean you’re sacrificing the opportunity to get a program transcending rising-star in favor of someone who actually wants to stay at your program, it seems to work for the dominant teams of the last decade and a half in the MAC. Basically, if you have a culture or formula you like and it seems to work, it’s probably a good idea to keep it."
And this quote is no doubt an anathema to Ohio fans because of the Knorr hire. I would maintain that it really doesn't apply to Knorr, however. Knorr did not take over the existing staff, and maintain the culture or formula. He was a member of the former staff, left behind to start things from scratch, as everyone else moved on.


Following bshott44's logic Nebraska, with their solid foundation, should be sitting pretty with multiple CCs to go with Frank's in 99. Instead since 2003 when coach Solich was let go at 9-3 Nebraska is on their fourth coach recording 4-8, 0 CCs. In the mean time Coach has managed to take Ohio, well you all know. I just hope, when the time comes, bshott44 is on the hiring committee so Ohio may be assured of future gains.



Or bcat2 could just cough up some cash ... and we could freeze Frank so he'll be coach forever.

Hell! He could probably coach bcat2's beloved Nebraska Cornhuskers too if frozen!

Frank got wrongfully let go at Nebraska .... get over bcat2. It's been nearly 15 years. Huskers got a good guy in there now with Osborne/Solich blood. I think he'll be fine. But if you're expecting NU to become a dominant Ohio St power in B1G ... you're pretty delusional. This isn't 1999 anymore. Nebraska is at best a tier 2 B1G team like Wisconsin.
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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rod Carey to Temple?
   Posted: 1/11/2019 5:00:53 PM 
bshot44 wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:
L.C. wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
...
Do you, bcat2, really think Frank hasn't built a solid enough foundation at Ohio that they'll survive an inevitable coaching change? That would go against your super pro-Solich agenda, wouldn't it?...

Let's hope so, but in time we will find out. Here are a couple quotes from the article that pertain to that question:
"If a program is already consistently dominant, its floor tends to be a lot higher. So even if there’s a noticeable decrease in overall quality, the results are still pretty damn good."

"While in-house hires usually mean you’re sacrificing the opportunity to get a program transcending rising-star in favor of someone who actually wants to stay at your program, it seems to work for the dominant teams of the last decade and a half in the MAC. Basically, if you have a culture or formula you like and it seems to work, it’s probably a good idea to keep it."
And this quote is no doubt an anathema to Ohio fans because of the Knorr hire. I would maintain that it really doesn't apply to Knorr, however. Knorr did not take over the existing staff, and maintain the culture or formula. He was a member of the former staff, left behind to start things from scratch, as everyone else moved on.


Following bshott44's logic Nebraska, with their solid foundation, should be sitting pretty with multiple CCs to go with Frank's in 99. Instead since 2003 when coach Solich was let go at 9-3 Nebraska is on their fourth coach recording 4-8, 0 CCs. In the mean time Coach has managed to take Ohio, well you all know. I just hope, when the time comes, bshott44 is on the hiring committee so Ohio may be assured of future gains.



Or bcat2 could just cough up some cash ... and we could freeze Frank so he'll be coach forever.

Hell! He could probably coach bcat2's beloved Nebraska Cornhuskers too if frozen!

Frank got wrongfully let go at Nebraska .... get over bcat2. It's been nearly 15 years. Huskers got a good guy in there now with Osborne/Solich blood. I think he'll be fine. But if you're expecting NU to become a dominant Ohio St power in B1G ... you're pretty delusional. This isn't 1999 anymore. Nebraska is at best a tier 2 B1G team like Wisconsin.


Thanks bshott44. Pretty sure you made my point better than I. But, again, the point is, like investing, "past performance is no guarantee future returns." Like the article said, paraphrasing, hiring championship level coaches is really damn hard, and mostly everyone sucks at it.


Last Edited: 1/11/2019 5:04:59 PM by Bcat2

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rod Carey to Temple?
   Posted: 1/11/2019 7:55:04 PM 
Bcat2 wrote:
Thanks bshott44. Pretty sure you made my point better than I. But, again, the point is, like investing, "past performance is no guarantee future returns." Like the article said, paraphrasing, hiring championship level coaches is really damn hard, and mostly everyone sucks at it.


And if you read on instead of cherry picking the bad parts ... it also says programs that have been consistently dominant have had success with new hires.

Does Ohio not have a consistently good program (not dominant based on no titles)? Has Frank not accomplished that? Again ... seems that ideology goes against your pro-Frank agenda? No?

The idea that the program will automatically fold up and go 2-10 is silly. I think most here would agree.

Between the schedule Ohio typically plays and how weak the MAC East is, I think 5-7 would be the floor.

.... not to mention Ohio doesn't have a championship level coach now. Sorry. Frank has been beyond successful at Ohio, but there's still a big goose egg in that column

Last Edited: 1/11/2019 7:56:49 PM by bshot44
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BryanHall
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rod Carey to Temple?
   Posted: 1/11/2019 8:47:15 PM 
bshot44 wrote:


Between the schedule Ohio typically plays and how weak the MAC East is, I think 5-7 would be the floor.





I can't help but think that a conversation like this happened at Nebraska in 2003. "We're Nebraska, it's the Big 12, 9 wins is probably the floor."
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Maddog13
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rod Carey to Temple?
   Posted: 1/11/2019 8:55:44 PM 
BryanHall wrote:
bshot44 wrote:


Between the schedule Ohio typically plays and how weak the MAC East is, I think 5-7 would be the floor.





I can't help but think that a conversation like this happened at Nebraska in 2003. "We're Nebraska, it's the Big 12, 9 wins is probably the floor."


As I recall, Nebraska was also bragging about the superiority of their weight training program at the same time that the rest of the football community had discovered the concept that "speed kills."
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rod Carey to Temple?
   Posted: 1/11/2019 10:10:00 PM 
Maddog13 wrote:
As I recall, Nebraska was also bragging about the superiority of their weight training program at the same time that the rest of the football community had discovered the concept that "speed kills."

To be clear, Nebraska was bragging about it's weight training program in 1972, when they were the only team in the country to lift weights year round. Others believed that lifting was bad because, while it made you stronger, it also made you bulkier and slower, whereas Nebraska found that if you lifted properly, it made you not only stronger, but faster and more explosive. That weight training program was the reason that the 1972 Nebraska team was so dominant, and after that year, everyone copied the Nebraska methods.

bshot44 wrote:
...
And if you read on instead of cherry picking the bad parts ... it also says programs that have been consistently dominant have had success with new hires.
...

I think Ohio history concurs with the article's conclusions, that after a program is consistently dominant, they will be at least "OK" with the next coach. The mystery hire is the third coach.

Dominant coach=Peden 121-46-11 .711
Successor= Widdoes 42-36-5 .536
3rd Coach= Hess 108-91-4 .542

Dominant Coach=Hess 108-91-4 .542
Successor= Burke 31-34-1 .478 (if you skip Kappes, who was temporary)
3rd Coach= Bryant 9-44-2 .182

Dominant Coach=Grobe 33-33-1 .500
Successor=Knorr 11-35 .239
3rd Coach=Solich 106-76 .582

So, 2 out of 3 times, Ohio got someone decent as the successor. Also, 2 out of 3 times, the 3rd coach was good. Once the program fell into a bad state, however, finding someone to lift it out was difficult.

Last Edited: 1/11/2019 10:27:43 PM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rod Carey to Temple?
   Posted: 1/11/2019 10:43:46 PM 
L.C. wrote:
Maddog13 wrote:
As I recall, Nebraska was also bragging about the superiority of their weight training program at the same time that the rest of the football community had discovered the concept that "speed kills."

To be clear, Nebraska was bragging about it's weight training program in 1972, when they were the only team in the country to lift weights year round. Others believed that lifting was bad because, while it made you stronger, it also made you bulkier and slower, whereas Nebraska found that if you lifted properly, it made you not only stronger, but faster and more explosive. That weight training program was the reason that the 1972 Nebraska team was so dominant, and after that year, everyone copied the Nebraska methods.

bshot44 wrote:
...
And if you read on instead of cherry picking the bad parts ... it also says programs that have been consistently dominant have had success with new hires.
...

I think Ohio history concurs with the article's conclusions, that after a program is consistently dominant, they will be at least "OK" with the next coach. The mystery hire is the third coach.

Dominant coach=Peden 121-46-11 .711
Successor= Widdoes 42-36-5 .536
3rd Coach= Hess 108-91-4 .542

Dominant Coach=Hess 108-91-4 .542
Successor= Burke 31-34-1 .478 (if you skip Kappes, who was temporary)
3rd Coach= Bryant 9-44-2 .182

Dominant Coach=Grobe 33-33-1 .500
Successor=Knorr 11-35 .239
3rd Coach=Solich 106-76 .582

So, 2 out of 3 times, Ohio got someone decent as the successor. Also, 2 out of 3 times, the 3rd coach was good. Once the program fell into a bad state, however, finding someone to lift it out was difficult.


I think it's incredibly hard to make an apples to apples comparison to college football programs in 1950s to 2010s.
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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rod Carey to Temple?
   Posted: 1/11/2019 10:53:01 PM 
BryanHall wrote:
bshot44 wrote:


Between the schedule Ohio typically plays and how weak the MAC East is, I think 5-7 would be the floor.





I can't help but think that a conversation like this happened at Nebraska in 2003. "We're Nebraska, it's the Big 12, 9 wins is probably the floor."


Probably right. And they were obviously wrong. It's complete arrogance to think a league with, at the time, had Texas, Oklahoma & Kansas St all in top 15 ... and bowl teams in Texas Tech, Oklahoma St and Missouri would be a nine-win cakewalk.

I think the MAC is a far cry from the Big 12. Kent, Akron, & BG are kind of a mess program-wise. Miami is a wildcard ... and we don't know if UB has staying power. If Ohio can't go at absolute worst 2-3 vs that group 3 every year, something is very wrong.

Throw in the FCS game and normally an average FBS team ... that's at least one more win, if not two.

And while the west is better top to bottom, Ohio should go 1-2 vs them?

I just can't see Ohio's program completely bottoming out post-Solich as some here are terrified of.

This isn't the same program Knorr took over and bottomed out. Solich has set Ohio up for success now & in the future. Why those that worship him can't believe in that is beyond me.

Last Edited: 1/11/2019 10:54:12 PM by bshot44
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rod Carey to Temple?
   Posted: 1/11/2019 11:18:29 PM 
bshot44 wrote:
I think it's incredibly hard to make an apples to apples comparison to college football programs in 1950s to 2010s.

And yet, the more things change, in some ways they remain the same. When the program is dominant, it means they have good players, and that means that the successor is going to come in, and should win some games. The more dominant the team is, the better the players, and the better the success of the following coach should be. But, over the course of a few years, those players leave, and the new coach recruits players to replace them. That's where things diverge, and can take different courses. Note, that it isn't always true. Knorr inherited good players, and had a bad first year.

Note that the above is similar to the findings in that article, where programs tended to reach peaks or valleys 3-4 years after new hires.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rod Carey to Temple?
   Posted: 1/12/2019 12:57:07 AM 
Folks are right, our base is better now than it was after Grobe. There's 15 years of systematic building that has occurred in Athens and personnel staff who have been there in a while. The next coach would have an indoor and academic facility to sell. The big thing is getting a coach that understands the recruiting lay of the land.
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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: Rod Carey to Temple?
   Posted: 1/12/2019 10:18:11 AM 
L.C. wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
I think it's incredibly hard to make an apples to apples comparison to college football programs in 1950s to 2010s.

And yet, the more things change, in some ways they remain the same. When the program is dominant, it means they have good players, and that means that the successor is going to come in, and should win some games. The more dominant the team is, the better the players, and the better the success of the following coach should be. But, over the course of a few years, those players leave, and the new coach recruits players to replace them. That's where things diverge, and can take different courses. Note, that it isn't always true. Knorr inherited good players, and had a bad first year.

Note that the above is similar to the findings in that article, where programs tended to reach peaks or valleys 3-4 years after new hires.


There's so much more than good players that go into a successful college football program in 2019 compared to 1950s.

Find me a dominant program that hasn't invested in facilities, has a administration that supports them, national TV exposure, etc.

I'm not sure those things mattered as much in 1950. Recruiting wasn't nearly the same.

The game has changed. I don't think you can compare the Don Peden era to the Frank Solich era no more than you can draw comparisons from the Vince Lombardi era to the Bill Belichick era.
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