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Topic:  A More Interesting Conversation

Topic:  A More Interesting Conversation
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AlumDadDad
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  Message Not Read  A More Interesting Conversation
   Posted: 12/12/2018 6:57:40 AM 
...is what I'm hoping. Look, we're all disappointed that we had the best team in the MAC this year and didn't win the championship. I for one am just as disappointed that we we laid an egg and lost our last real championship hopes against an inferior, horribly coached opponent. We've covered this topic thoroughly, the horse is dead. Ànd, in case we didn't realize, Theres not a @#&# thing any of us can do about what happened in the past.

Let's engage in a more intellectually challenging discussion, because the current themes have become quite boring.

What are the next steps this team can take to improve to the next level? What holes do we have to fill? What recruits hold the most promise in terms of helping us get there? What teams are going to stand in our way? And lastly, Frank will retire some day, no one can go forever. What direction should the program take for the more distant future to give us the best chance of long term success?
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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: A More Interesting Conversation
   Posted: 12/12/2018 9:22:03 AM 
AlumDadDad wrote:
What are the next steps this team can take to improve to the next level?


Better coaching. Lions share of losses to UC, NIU & Miami are on coaches. Poor decision making in 2H & 4Q vs UC cost them. Same vs NIU in 4Q. Similar vs Miami in 1H. Although MAC scheduling geniuses giving Miami 8 days between games and Ohio only 6 didn't help.

AlumDadDad wrote:

What holes do we have to fill?


Secondary. Might be some talent there in young guys, but fundamentals were weak. Poor coverage skills ... not to mention poor scheme to lineup up 5-7 yards off WR a lot. Definitely a weakness on a pretty weak defense. Played better in MAC ... but not sure if that was more of opposition's doing?

Also question marks at RB. Is Ross the guy? This staff has showed they're not willing to put it all on Rourke, so they'll keep running. Need someone (or two) capable RBs behind Rourke.

AlumDadDad wrote:
What teams are going to stand in our way?


Same as always ... anyone Ohio plays in November. But specifically I'd say Miami isn't getting worse. Nor is Buffalo. But as we've said for years, there is ZERO reason Ohio shouldn't be dominant team in the East. None.

NIU & Toledo will continue to be strong in West.

Ohio as talented as any ... been best in league last two seasons. Not a lot to make me believe that can't be true next year.

Just have to avoid self-inflicted gunshot to the foot. Something this program has struggled to avoid most years of Solich era.

AlumDadDad wrote:
And lastly, Frank will retire some day, no one can go forever. What direction should the program take for the more distant future to give us the best chance of long term success?


Big decision for Schaus assuming Solich doesn't outlive him at Ohio. University has made it clear that they won't be forking out big money ... so do they go cheap and promote from within (mistake ... see Knorr era) or go find another Solich-type (big name coach out of work) ... or find young up-and-comer.

I'd vote C. I think foundation has been built by Frank. Much better than he inherited. So new blood could be what's needed to push to that elusive championship level?
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Sam bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: A More Interesting Conversation
   Posted: 12/12/2018 9:50:08 AM 
Nothing against AJ and Maleek who are outstanding players, but losing Lowery and Anderson will be our biggest hurdle to overcome next season in my opinion. I believe if we can effectively fill the holes in the o line, then we will field the best team Ohio has seen yet. Rourke’s running abilities will keep the defenses honest and open lanes for the younger RB’s to exploit. The defense should only improve. Fully expecting to return to Detroit next year.
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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: A More Interesting Conversation
   Posted: 12/12/2018 11:11:00 AM 
Sam bobcat wrote:
Fully expecting to return to Detroit next year.


Lol ... Hilarious!

Heard that one before ;-)
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catfan28
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  Message Not Read  RE: A More Interesting Conversation
   Posted: 12/12/2018 11:37:59 AM 
bshot44 wrote:

Big decision for Schaus assuming Solich doesn't outlive him at Ohio. University has made it clear that they won't be forking out big money ... so do they go cheap and promote from within (mistake ... see Knorr era) or go find another Solich-type (big name coach out of work) ... or find young up-and-comer.

I'd vote C. I think foundation has been built by Frank. Much better than he inherited. So new blood could be what's needed to push to that elusive championship level?


The more I hear various rumblings and wrap my head around the new (post McDavis) campus environment, I am convinced of 3 things I'd bet money on:

1. Solich will outlast Schaus at Ohio (not saying he'll be fired, just that he will grow weary of the current environment and opt to retire)
2. I wouldn't be surprised to see at least another 5 seasons out of Solich
3. Next coach will come from within, with the highest likelihood being Burrow. He'll be paid around Frank's salary or perhaps a bit less.

Last Edited: 12/12/2018 11:39:41 AM by catfan28
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: A More Interesting Conversation
   Posted: 12/12/2018 11:42:50 AM 
catfan28 wrote:
bshot44 wrote:

Big decision for Schaus assuming Solich doesn't outlive him at Ohio. University has made it clear that they won't be forking out big money ... so do they go cheap and promote from within (mistake ... see Knorr era) or go find another Solich-type (big name coach out of work) ... or find young up-and-comer.

I'd vote C. I think foundation has been built by Frank. Much better than he inherited. So new blood could be what's needed to push to that elusive championship level?


The more I hear various rumblings and wrap my head around the new (post McDavis) campus environment, I am convinced of 3 things I'd bet money on:

1. Solich will outlast Schaus at Ohio (not saying he'll be fired, just that he will grow weary of the current environment and opt to retire)
2. I wouldn't be surprised to see at least another 5 seasons out of Solich
3. Next coach will come from within, with the highest likelihood being Burrow. He'll be paid around Frank's salary or perhaps a bit less.


I hope that works out better than the last time a replacement was hired from within (Knorr replacing Grobe).
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: A More Interesting Conversation
   Posted: 12/12/2018 11:43:39 AM 
Sam bobcat wrote:
Nothing against AJ and Maleek who are outstanding players, but losing Lowery and Anderson will be our biggest hurdle to overcome next season in my opinion. I believe if we can effectively fill the holes in the o line, then we will field the best team Ohio has seen yet. Rourke’s running abilities will keep the defenses honest and open lanes for the younger RB’s to exploit. The defense should only improve. Fully expecting to return to Detroit next year.


While I think for two years he was under utilized, replacing Papi White's explosiveness is something to put in this list for consideration.
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Buck.Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: A More Interesting Conversation
   Posted: 12/12/2018 11:46:54 AM 
AlumDadDad wrote:
...is what I'm hoping. Look, we're all disappointed that we had the best team in the MAC this year and didn't win the championship.


How is it possible to be the best team in the MAC when you do not win the MAC championship? Not to mention we did not even win the MAC East division title. I’m pretty sure Northern Illinois and Buffalo earned those distinctions.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: A More Interesting Conversation
   Posted: 12/12/2018 11:56:31 AM 
Buck.Cat wrote:
AlumDadDad wrote:
...is what I'm hoping. Look, we're all disappointed that we had the best team in the MAC this year and didn't win the championship.


How is it possible to be the best team in the MAC when you do not win the MAC championship? Not to mention we did not even win the MAC East division title. I’m pretty sure Northern Illinois and Buffalo earned those distinctions.



Simple, it's like the days of the AP and old UPI, the Conference results are the AP (valid and accepted of the two) and BobcatAttack.com opinion poll is the UPI. We've won the UPI, MACC game!!!!! We get a banner, trophies and rings. In 30 years everyone will talk about the "Greatest Championship that Never Was". I suspect we will even see T-Shirts at the bookstore "2016 MAC's Best Team".

We had a good team, we had a team that I enjoyed watching, at no point did I feel this team was a MAC Title winner, but I did enjoy watching them for 12 weeks, and appreciate the effort of the players and coaches. But to claim we were the best when the results simply do not point to that...Yeah, do not get it!
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: A More Interesting Conversation
   Posted: 12/12/2018 12:32:07 PM 
OU_Country wrote:


While I think for two years he was under utilized, replacing Papi White's explosiveness is something to put in this list for consideration.


I think Jerome Buckner could fill the bill. He was in only two games this year: 2 catches for 44 yds vs UVA and one catch for a 60-yd TD vs Buffalo. On the TD he was wide open over the middle, caught it in stride and left da Bulls in da dust. I thought it was Papi. I assume he'll be back next year.


OU_Country wrote:
catfan28 wrote:
bshot44 wrote:

Big decision for Schaus assuming Solich doesn't outlive him at Ohio. University has made it clear that they won't be forking out big money ... so do they go cheap and promote from within (mistake ... see Knorr era) or go find another Solich-type (big name coach out of work) ... or find young up-and-comer.

I'd vote C. I think foundation has been built by Frank. Much better than he inherited. So new blood could be what's needed to push to that elusive championship level?


The more I hear various rumblings and wrap my head around the new (post McDavis) campus environment, I am convinced of 3 things I'd bet money on:

1. Solich will outlast Schaus at Ohio (not saying he'll be fired, just that he will grow weary of the current environment and opt to retire)
2. I wouldn't be surprised to see at least another 5 seasons out of Solich
3. Next coach will come from within, with the highest likelihood being Burrow. He'll be paid around Frank's salary or perhaps a bit less.


I hope that works out better than the last time a replacement was hired from within (Knorr replacing Grobe).


Knorr was young and in over his head. I don't see that in any of the coordinators at Ohio.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.
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Maddog13
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  Message Not Read  RE: A More Interesting Conversation
   Posted: 12/12/2018 12:32:29 PM 
The Bobcats need to keep trying something different until they find something that works. Statistically, they should eventually achieve their goals one way or another. I feel that the 'Cats are already making good adjustments, so I think that what has become obvious is that Ohio just needs to continue to take advantage of their natural exposure and recruit better and better players from around the country. This includes the necessity of getting better and better quarterbacks at Ohio along with better receivers. I also think that Ohio needs to continue to address the conditioning and injury issues that have plagued them in the past. In that particular regard, I think that Ohio actually seemed to get over the top this year in terms of being healthier and seemingly stronger than other programs down the stretch. I also think that the Graduate Transfer trend is here to stay, so I think that Ohio should take advantage of that by using Grad Transfers to address current weaknesses. Lastly, enough when it comes to playing weaker teams during non-league play. I don't think there is any advantage at all to the playing of SEC teams on the other end of the spectrum, but I do think that schools like Cincinnati and Virginia are good match ups for Ohio, win or lose, which will give us the tests that we need to thus prepare ourselves better for MAC Championship runs.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: A More Interesting Conversation
   Posted: 12/12/2018 12:58:09 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Buck.Cat wrote:
AlumDadDad wrote:
...is what I'm hoping. Look, we're all disappointed that we had the best team in the MAC this year and didn't win the championship.


How is it possible to be the best team in the MAC when you do not win the MAC championship? Not to mention we did not even win the MAC East division title. I’m pretty sure Northern Illinois and Buffalo earned those distinctions.



Simple, it's like the days of the AP and old UPI, the Conference results are the AP (valid and accepted of the two) and BobcatAttack.com opinion poll is the UPI. We've won the UPI, MACC game!!!!! We get a banner, trophies and rings. In 30 years everyone will talk about the "Greatest Championship that Never Was". I suspect we will even see T-Shirts at the bookstore "2016 MAC's Best Team".

We had a good team, we had a team that I enjoyed watching, at no point did I feel this team was a MAC Title winner, but I did enjoy watching them for 12 weeks, and appreciate the effort of the players and coaches. But to claim we were the best when the results simply do not point to that...Yeah, do not get it!


Have to agree entirely with this. What happens on the field always counts more in my book than what some talking head (or blathering poster) says about relative merits of Team A over Team B. That's what I hate about a lot of March Backetology, where they dismiss Team A's clobbering of Team B in head-to-head competition but declare that Team B should be seeded higher (or be selected over) Team A because of some so-called "body of work." That term "body of work" is right up there on my hated term, overused cliche list with, "It's in their DNA."

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: A More Interesting Conversation
   Posted: 12/12/2018 1:12:42 PM 
Buck.Cat wrote:
AlumDadDad wrote:
...is what I'm hoping. Look, we're all disappointed that we had the best team in the MAC this year and didn't win the championship.


How is it possible to be the best team in the MAC when you do not win the MAC championship? Not to mention we did not even win the MAC East division title. I’m pretty sure Northern Illinois and Buffalo earned those distinctions.



Was it just last season Alabama won the National Championship without winning their conference? So it is possible to be the best in the country without winning your conference, same deal.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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Mark Lembright '85
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  Message Not Read  RE: A More Interesting Conversation
   Posted: 12/12/2018 2:21:21 PM 
Bcat2 wrote:
Buck.Cat wrote:
AlumDadDad wrote:
...is what I'm hoping. Look, we're all disappointed that we had the best team in the MAC this year and didn't win the championship.


How is it possible to be the best team in the MAC when you do not win the MAC championship? Not to mention we did not even win the MAC East division title. I’m pretty sure Northern Illinois and Buffalo earned those distinctions.



Was it just last season Alabama won the National Championship without winning their conference? So it is possible to be the best in the country without winning your conference, same deal.



Alabama at least made it to their conference championship game last year, Ohio can't say that. Ohio wasn't even second (when considering tiebreakers!) in its division this year.

As to what Ohio needs to improve next year, an area of needed improvement is in-game decisions and playcalling. Solich said as much after the Cinci game.
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Sam bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: A More Interesting Conversation
   Posted: 12/12/2018 2:23:37 PM 
bshot44 wrote:
Sam bobcat wrote:
Fully expecting to return to Detroit next year.


Lol ... Hilarious!

Heard that one before ;-)


Not from me. I’ve said for the last two years that I think next seasons team will be our best chance to win the MACC. I think we were good enough this year but we couldn’t get there.
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mf279801
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  Message Not Read  RE: A More Interesting Conversation
   Posted: 12/12/2018 3:04:10 PM 
Mark Lembright '85 wrote:


Alabama at least made it to their conference championship game last year...


Not to nitpick, but Alabama did not play in the 2017 SEC championship game (Georgia defeated Auburn).
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.
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  Message Not Read  RE: A More Interesting Conversation
   Posted: 12/12/2018 3:25:44 PM 
Buck.Cat wrote:
AlumDadDad wrote:
...is what I'm hoping. Look, we're all disappointed that we had the best team in the MAC this year and didn't win the championship.


How is it possible to be the best team in the MAC when you do not win the MAC championship? Not to mention we did not even win the MAC East division title. I’m pretty sure Northern Illinois and Buffalo earned those distinctions.



Was Georgia better than Alabama last year?

This isn't a trick question. They might've been. They led for almost the entire national championship game.

But it is possible to be the best team and not win the championship. We all play the game in our minds and agree to the rules that whoever wins the game is the best because it makes us feel better about wasting three hours of our lives and livers every Saturday. But it's just not always true, especially in a sport that spans multiple seasons and includes so many injuries.

Bill Parcells can claim you are what your record is all he wants. It's just not objectively true. It's just something we all accept so we can crown champions.
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Mark Lembright '85
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  Message Not Read  RE: A More Interesting Conversation
   Posted: 12/12/2018 4:04:50 PM 
mf279801 wrote:
Mark Lembright '85 wrote:


Alabama at least made it to their conference championship game last year...


Not to nitpick, but Alabama did not play in the 2017 SEC championship game (Georgia defeated Auburn).


Ooops-my bad! I knew I should've Google-searched before typing...

Well, to heck with Alabama too!

All that being said, and taking this line of thinking further, I'd much rather Ohio be the MACC and I don't care one iota if its the best team in the MAC. The point of the whole season (besides providing entertainment to fans or spectators) is to win the MACC.

Edit: I agree with Parcells. You literally are what your record says you are. Up here in "the Land", everyone's excited because the Browns are 5-7-1. That's literally a losing record. It sure beats 0-16 to me but I'm not about to say they're a play-off team, not with a losing record.

Double Edit: Great topic for a thread!!

Last Edited: 12/12/2018 4:09:47 PM by Mark Lembright '85
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Buck.Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: A More Interesting Conversation
   Posted: 12/12/2018 7:04:36 PM 
Bcat2 wrote:


Was it just last season Alabama won the National Championship without winning their conference? So it is possible to be the best in the country without winning your conference, same deal.



Brian Smith wrote:


Was Georgia better than Alabama last year?

This isn't a trick question. They might've been. They led for almost the entire national championship game.

But it is possible to be the best team and not win the championship. We all play the game in our minds and agree to the rules that whoever wins the game is the best because it makes us feel better about wasting three hours of our lives and livers every Saturday. But it's just not always true, especially in a sport that spans multiple seasons and includes so many injuries.

Bill Parcells can claim you are what your record is all he wants. It's just not objectively true. It's just something we all accept so we can crown champions.


You guys are attempting (poorly) to compare Alabama and the SEC to Ohio and the MAC? Wow...totally different situations.
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OhioStunter
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  Message Not Read  RE: A More Interesting Conversation
   Posted: 12/12/2018 8:26:54 PM 
Buck.Cat wrote:
Bcat2 wrote:


Was it just last season Alabama won the National Championship without winning their conference? So it is possible to be the best in the country without winning your conference, same deal.



Brian Smith wrote:


Was Georgia better than Alabama last year?

This isn't a trick question. They might've been. They led for almost the entire national championship game.

But it is possible to be the best team and not win the championship. We all play the game in our minds and agree to the rules that whoever wins the game is the best because it makes us feel better about wasting three hours of our lives and livers every Saturday. But it's just not always true, especially in a sport that spans multiple seasons and includes so many injuries.

Bill Parcells can claim you are what your record is all he wants. It's just not objectively true. It's just something we all accept so we can crown champions.


You guys are attempting (poorly) to compare Alabama and the SEC to Ohio and the MAC? Wow...totally different situations.


While I agree that comparing the SEC to the MAC is not always a fair comparison, in the case of the original discussion, I think the Alabama example is a fair example.

The discussion was about how the best team in the conference can't be the best team without winning the conference title. I don't believe that to be true.

Not with Ohio this year.

Not with Alabama last year.

Neither won the conference, but I still believe them to be the best team in their respective conference.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: A More Interesting Conversation
   Posted: 12/12/2018 8:39:50 PM 
Mark Lembright '85 wrote:
. . .Edit: I agree with Parcells. You literally are what your record says you are. . . .


Could not agree more. They don't give championship rings for woulda, shoulda, coulda!

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: A More Interesting Conversation
   Posted: 12/12/2018 10:32:47 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Mark Lembright '85 wrote:
. . .Edit: I agree with Parcells. You literally are what your record says you are. . . .


Could not agree more. They don't give championship rings for woulda, shoulda, coulda!


+1 From experience, the players have the most invested, thus, the most to gain or lose. Certainly more than fans or coaches.

Last Edited: 12/12/2018 10:37:05 PM by Bcat2

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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AlumDadDad
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  Message Not Read  RE: A More Interesting Conversation
   Posted: 12/12/2018 11:21:58 PM 
Back on topic folks...drifting a bit...(shocking!)

Defense will be better next year. Losing a couple of good players (Crouch, Payne, Berger come to mind), but overall we're young on defense and they showed a lot of improvement over the year, so that could actually be the strength of our team next year.

Offense will be a bit more interesting...obvious losses on the OL and in the backfield. Never good to lose someone like Papi, but I believe we'll be OK in the receiver corps...lots of good young players there competing for spots. Will Elijah Ball try to come back? If he does, will he be able to compete among the stable of young receivers we have returning?

Losing Lowery and Anderson will definitely hurt. We have some proven returners in Meservy, Kitrell, Pleasants. We have some young linemen who are absolute loads! We may be bigger next year on the OL than we were this year. Rodgers, 6-4 313, Ramer 6-4 322, Gililand 6-5 316! coach those guys up and the best may be yet to come (given a little time).

Running back. Much depends on Ross next year. Anyone have info on how severe the shoulder was? We'll probably see a rotation of Ross, Allison, and Neatherton next year. Neatherton will be a pleasant surprise next year IMO. That kid was flying around knocking the crap out of people on special teams this year. I also like the fact that he was reportedly working out with Muncy in Miamisburg in High School. Only good can come of that. Now, about that haircut...

I honestly hope that we have Frank for a few more years. Even given the hole in his resume, I think we'll very much miss him when he's gone.

Last Edited: 12/12/2018 11:24:44 PM by AlumDadDad
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OhioBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: A More Interesting Conversation
   Posted: 12/12/2018 11:55:42 PM 
Sam bobcat wrote:
Fully expecting to return to Detroit next year.


I completely agree. Book it!
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AlumDadDad
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  Message Not Read  RE: A More Interesting Conversation
   Posted: 12/13/2018 10:05:12 AM 
One more thought - do we become a bit more of a passing team next year with all the returning WR talent (minus Papi of course)? If so, what does that mean for Maxwell? I still feel he's the more natural passer, but no way we could bench Nathan after what he's been doing for us.
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