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Topic:  College Attendance Football Woes

Topic:  College Attendance Football Woes
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BobcatSports
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  Message Not Read  College Attendance Football Woes
   Posted: 8/30/2018 11:37:24 AM 
A very informative article in The Wall Street Journal about the enormous difference between “announced” attendance numbers versus actual scanned tickets. I think our esteemed OHIO weighed in at near 41% of actual butts in seats vs. announced figures.

OUr woes are shared by lots of other programs, even the biggest of the big boys are staring at declining attendance across the board. It seems to me that no matter how many new glitzy video boards and other game day stadium enhancements are done, the populace seems to say meh, big deal.

Some programs even count marching bands, ushers, concession stand workers, media reps., etc. to inflate the numbers. Seems to me some of it borders on fraud especially for public universities and open record rules. The article also touches on lack of student interest in attending these games and even a comment on the student exodus stampede at halftime. And here I thought that was just an OU phenomenon.

Looks like there are many challenges ahead for virtually every college big and small to get folks in seats AT the venues on game day.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: College Attendance Football Woes
   Posted: 8/30/2018 12:38:20 PM 
The question I have, is how long has there been a big disparity between announced attendance, vs butts in the seats? I'm guessing at most places it's been quite awhile. Also, as far as any athletic department is concerned, they care most about paid attendance.

As for keeping people in the seats for the duration, this is often caused by TV. When the game is beholden to TV money, games take longer. People -- not just students -- lose interest in staying in the stadium, often sitting on metal bleachers, for 4 hours for a regulation football game that doesn't include OT.

I can honestly say I have no intention in staying in the stadium on this coming Saturday for the duration against *Howard*. Honestly, unless there's a meaningful game in the MAC standings, or a truly exciting game/interesting opponent, that rule will pretty much apply for most games I go to. The only thing I unfortunately miss out on is the 110's post game show.
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OhioStunter
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  Message Not Read  RE: College Attendance Football Woes
   Posted: 8/30/2018 1:53:30 PM 
What is concerning is that of the top worst offenders the WSJ listed (biggest gaps between reported paid attendance and actual attendance), The MAC had 5 of the 10 teams listed, including Ohio.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: College Attendance Football Woes
   Posted: 8/30/2018 3:05:08 PM 
I think schools have always reported tickets sold, not people in the seats. I suspect that the disparity has gotten larger in recent years, and is therefore more noticeable. Ohio, in particular, has a policy that encourages the disparity, notably the family pack. Remember when Marshall fans discovered that they could buy a family pack of 4 season tickets for less than buying 4 Marshall single game tickets? That caused great reported sales numbers, but didn't help actual attendance at all.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: College Attendance Football Woes
   Posted: 8/30/2018 6:25:00 PM 
41%, can’t be, time for that second deck
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: College Attendance Football Woes
   Posted: 8/30/2018 6:26:57 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
The question I have, is how long has there been a big disparity between announced attendance, vs butts in the seats? I'm guessing at most places it's been quite awhile. Also, as far as any athletic department is concerned, they care most about paid attendance.

As for keeping people in the seats for the duration, this is often caused by TV. When the game is beholden to TV money, games take longer. People -- not just students -- lose interest in staying in the stadium, often sitting on metal bleachers, for 4 hours for a regulation football game that doesn't include OT.

I can honestly say I have no intention in staying in the stadium on this coming Saturday for the duration against *Howard*. Honestly, unless there's a meaningful game in the MAC standings, or a truly exciting game/interesting opponent, that rule will pretty much apply for most games I go to. The only thing I unfortunately miss out on is the 110's post game show.


Why do you think our athletic department cares more about paid attendance? Ever student here is buying tickets, as long as the subsidy is so great, butts in seats will not matter much. Ticket revenue is a very small part of a departments revenue stream.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: College Attendance Football Woes
   Posted: 8/30/2018 6:43:48 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
41%, can’t be, time for that second deck

Maybe it's time to take a trick from the airlines, and sell more seats than there are in the stadium. To get attendance to 40k they don't need 40k seats, they only need to sell 40k tickets.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: College Attendance Football Woes
   Posted: 8/30/2018 8:59:36 PM 
I guess I was on to something years ago. What say you Mr. McKinney?
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: College Attendance Football Woes
   Posted: 8/30/2018 9:03:10 PM 
The culprit for the discrepancy between announced and actual attendance is the stupid attendance rule for maintaining 1A status. If a school is willing/able to get into the spending war to stay at 1A, why should the NCAA care how many butts they have in the seats? There's no attendance rule to be in D1 in any other sport, so ditch it for 1A.

The halftime exodus is going to continue to be a problem, mostly because of the length of games (televised or not). There are a lot of causes, including too many reviews that not only add to the length of the game but also kill the excitement of the moment when a score is reviewed. Maybe they should do 12-minute quarters like high schools.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.
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TWT
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  Message Not Read  RE: College Attendance Football Woes
   Posted: 8/30/2018 9:43:31 PM 
The MAC is in particular struggling with actual fans in seats because of the Midweek games. We know that.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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TWT
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  Message Not Read  RE: College Attendance Football Woes
   Posted: 8/30/2018 10:18:02 PM 
BobcatSports wrote:
A very informative article in The Wall Street Journal about the enormous difference between “announced” attendance numbers versus actual scanned tickets. I think our esteemed OHIO weighed in at near 41% of actual butts in seats vs. announced figures.

OUr woes are shared by lots of other programs, even the biggest of the big boys are staring at declining attendance across the board. It seems to me that no matter how many new glitzy video boards and other game day stadium enhancements are done, the populace seems to say meh, big deal.

Some programs even count marching bands, ushers, concession stand workers, media reps., etc. to inflate the numbers. Seems to me some of it borders on fraud especially for public universities and open record rules. The article also touches on lack of student interest in attending these games and even a comment on the student exodus stampede at halftime. And here I thought that was just an OU phenomenon.

Looks like there are many challenges ahead for virtually every college big and small to get folks in seats AT the venues on game day.


The sport peaked in the BCS era. There was a positive response by the fans to the move to 12 in the SEC and Big XII and the ACC addition of Florida State. Those expansions made their conferences more exciting to average ESPN viewer. This last round they over did it by picking apart the Big XII a nicely branded conference. The landscape shifted away from some of those programs.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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TWT
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  Message Not Read  RE: College Attendance Football Woes
   Posted: 8/30/2018 10:28:26 PM 
L.C. wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
41%, can’t be, time for that second deck

Maybe it's time to take a trick from the airlines, and sell more seats than there are in the stadium. To get attendance to 40k they don't need 40k seats, they only need to sell 40k tickets.


I concur. Follow the old Nebraska strategy of getting companies in the area to purchase GA tickets and giving them out to employees. If the going ratio is 65% actual people per ticket on a Saturday Ohio could sell 40,000 tickets with the expectation 25,000 actually show up.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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boydhallbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: College Attendance Football Woes
   Posted: 8/30/2018 11:37:52 PM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
The MAC is in particular struggling with actual fans in seats because of the Midweek games. We know that.


Exactly...Three Saturday home games is such a buzzkill. I know we are at the mercy of the MAC and they sign the television contracts, but they have to see that the level of play in the conference has dropped a lot in the last several years. I think high school kids would rather play in front of a big Saturday crowd than an empty stadium on ESPN2 on a Tuesday night.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: College Attendance Football Woes
   Posted: 8/31/2018 6:37:48 AM 
At the start of every college football season The Record has an article that goes through some of the top "issues" in college football.

One of this year's topics is "Fragile State Of Affairs".

It says college football has reached a saturation point.

It points out that both viewership and in person attendance are down.

They say this will translate into less money for future T.V. contracts.

This has all been said before,but this is the first time this paper put it front and center.
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OhioStunter
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  Message Not Read  RE: College Attendance Football Woes
   Posted: 8/31/2018 10:29:58 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
At the start of every college football season The Record has an article that goes through some of the top "issues" in college football.

One of this year's topics is "Fragile State Of Affairs".

It says college football has reached a saturation point.

It points out that both viewership and in person attendance are down.

They say this will translate into less money for future T.V. contracts.

This has all been said before,but this is the first time this paper put it front and center.


I wonder if this is a bigger symptom of evolving consumer habits. Viewership is down for a number of sports and TV overall. So much competition for eyeballs now vs. the 4-5 TV channels of yesteryear. To see my teams, I can now watch in a hammock in my back yard on my phone.

NASCAR, once the poster child of loyal, rabid fans, has since become a shell of itself with ratings and attendance -- pricing itself out of the average fan to enjoy and not creating memorable drivers.
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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: College Attendance Football Woes
   Posted: 8/31/2018 12:03:18 PM 
Excellent points rpbobcat and Ohio Stunter. We can dwell on mid week games and how many people leave at halftime, but the fact of the matter is there are so many cultural factors going on that blaming it on those two points misses the big picture.

Ohio Stunter used a great analogy with NASCAR. Let me throw out another one professional boxing. When I was a little kid in the early 70s I have faint memories of watching Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, Jerry Quarry, Ernie Shavers etc. All of these men were in their prime and though some were better than others they were head and shoulders above what we saw in the next decade, which is why Mike Tyson was so dominant. Boxing was great in the 1970s, but it had already peaked. Like football it was a tough, hard, grinding sport that fewer people were willing to take up, because in the western world, societies were becoming more affluent. While travelling for work, I heard a couple of sports talk radio stations talk about the amount of big time high school football programs in the state lament that their youth and middle school programs are experiencing sharp declines.

The first place you are going to experience declines in college football is the non-Power 5 conferences. Eventually, it will work it's way through all of the conferences. College football followed by college basketball are my favorite sports to watch, but I have to admit that while football will always be with us, it has already peaked.

Last Edited: 8/31/2018 12:05:06 PM by cbus cat fan
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: College Attendance Football Woes
   Posted: 8/31/2018 1:42:43 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
The question I have, is how long has there been a big disparity between announced attendance, vs butts in the seats? I'm guessing at most places it's been quite awhile. Also, as far as any athletic department is concerned, they care most about paid attendance.

As for keeping people in the seats for the duration, this is often caused by TV. When the game is beholden to TV money, games take longer. People -- not just students -- lose interest in staying in the stadium, often sitting on metal bleachers, for 4 hours for a regulation football game that doesn't include OT.

I can honestly say I have no intention in staying in the stadium on this coming Saturday for the duration against *Howard*. Honestly, unless there's a meaningful game in the MAC standings, or a truly exciting game/interesting opponent, that rule will pretty much apply for most games I go to. The only thing I unfortunately miss out on is the 110's post game show.


Why do you think our athletic department cares more about paid attendance? Ever student here is buying tickets, as long as the subsidy is so great, butts in seats will not matter much. Ticket revenue is a very small part of a departments revenue stream.


I'm speculating that most athletic departments care about paid attendance because paid attendance is their primary game day revenue stream by my assumption. I'm sure they care about apparel sales, beer and food sales, etc. as well. I'll be the first to admit I have no clue about how the pie chart looks on gameday revenues. I'm guessing TV rights fees are the biggest number for Ohio Athletics as it relates to revenue, but I wouldn't call that gameday revenue.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: College Attendance Football Woes
   Posted: 8/31/2018 1:49:55 PM 
Pataskala wrote:
The culprit for the discrepancy between announced and actual attendance is the stupid attendance rule for maintaining 1A status. If a school is willing/able to get into the spending war to stay at 1A, why should the NCAA care how many butts they have in the seats? There's no attendance rule to be in D1 in any other sport, so ditch it for 1A.

The halftime exodus is going to continue to be a problem, mostly because of the length of games (televised or not). There are a lot of causes, including too many reviews that not only add to the length of the game but also kill the excitement of the moment when a score is reviewed. Maybe they should do 12-minute quarters like high schools.


12 minute quarters would be interesting.

Replay though is the biggest culprit. I still say the amount of time it takes to review needs to be on a clock by itself. During the World Cup, there was replay of certain plays, and the decisions were made in 60-90 seconds most times after the referee saw the video. Why then, does it take football referees twice as long or more to review video? Same question could be asked of video replay in basketball. Give them 90 seconds and make a decision and move on with the games.
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OhioStunter
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  Message Not Read  RE: College Attendance Football Woes
   Posted: 8/31/2018 2:55:21 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
The question I have, is how long has there been a big disparity between announced attendance, vs butts in the seats? I'm guessing at most places it's been quite awhile. Also, as far as any athletic department is concerned, they care most about paid attendance.

As for keeping people in the seats for the duration, this is often caused by TV. When the game is beholden to TV money, games take longer. People -- not just students -- lose interest in staying in the stadium, often sitting on metal bleachers, for 4 hours for a regulation football game that doesn't include OT.

I can honestly say I have no intention in staying in the stadium on this coming Saturday for the duration against *Howard*. Honestly, unless there's a meaningful game in the MAC standings, or a truly exciting game/interesting opponent, that rule will pretty much apply for most games I go to. The only thing I unfortunately miss out on is the 110's post game show.


Why do you think our athletic department cares more about paid attendance? Ever student here is buying tickets, as long as the subsidy is so great, butts in seats will not matter much. Ticket revenue is a very small part of a departments revenue stream.


I'm speculating that most athletic departments care about paid attendance because paid attendance is their primary game day revenue stream by my assumption. I'm sure they care about apparel sales, beer and food sales, etc. as well. I'll be the first to admit I have no clue about how the pie chart looks on gameday revenues. I'm guessing TV rights fees are the biggest number for Ohio Athletics as it relates to revenue, but I wouldn't call that gameday revenue.




Question to this board -- do you feel as though Ohio Athletics maximizes opportunities for apparel sales, beer and food sales at games? I'm not sure how the vending contract is set up, but I would have to think that having a limited selection impacts revenue? It's like the movie theaters that don't make money on the ticket sales, but on the $11 popcorn buckets. How do they get people to buy it? Well staffed lines, fresh smells and plenty of inventory.
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Sam bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: College Attendance Football Woes
   Posted: 8/31/2018 9:07:27 PM 
boydhallbobcat wrote:
Uncle Wes wrote:
The MAC is in particular struggling with actual fans in seats because of the Midweek games. We know that.


Exactly...Three Saturday home games is such a buzzkill. I know we are at the mercy of the MAC and they sign the television contracts, but they have to see that the level of play in the conference has dropped a lot in the last several years. I think high school kids would rather play in front of a big Saturday crowd than an empty stadium on ESPN2 on a Tuesday night.


I agree that 3 Saturday home games is a buzzkill. But how has the level of play dropped?
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Bobcat Grad 86
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  Message Not Read  RE: College Attendance Football Woes
   Posted: 9/1/2018 7:33:52 AM 
http://www.realmathstandards.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/...
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OhioStunter
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  Message Not Read  RE: College Attendance Football Woes
   Posted: 10/4/2018 10:47:50 AM 
Look, if a program like Alabama -- national TV, perennial championship contender, big-time coach, great weather -- has trouble getting students to games, it's time to re-consider our expectations for OU students.

From the article:
Nick Saban wrote:

["When I first came here, you used to play that tradition thing up there (on the video board) and everybody was cheering and excited and happy and there was great spirit," Saban continued. "Now they don't even cheer. They introduce our players and nobody even cheers. So I don't know, maybe there's something else somebody else ought to talk about. Maybe I shouldn't talk about it. Maybe I already talked about it more than I should."

Although the listed attendance for last Saturday's 11 a.m. kickoff was 101,471, the wealth of empty seats in the usually-full student section behind the south goal post was blatantly noticeable and something many fans and even a few players commented on after the game.]


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/sec/2018/10/0... /

Last Edited: 10/4/2018 12:32:29 PM by OhioStunter
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: College Attendance Football Woes
   Posted: 10/4/2018 11:56:17 AM 
OhioStunter wrote:
Look, if a program like Alabama -- national TV, perennial championship contender, big-time coach, great weather -- has trouble getting students to games, it's time to re-consider our expectations for OU students.

From the article:
["When I first came here, you used to play that tradition thing up there (on the video board) and everybody was cheering and excited and happy and there was great spirit," Saban continued. "Now they don't even cheer. They introduce our players and nobody even cheers. So I don't know, maybe there's something else somebody else ought to talk about. Maybe I shouldn't talk about it. Maybe I already talked about it more than I should."

Although the listed attendance for last Saturday's 11 a.m. kickoff was 101,471, the wealth of empty seats in the usually-full student section behind the south goal post was blatantly noticeable and something many fans and even a few players commented on after the game.]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/sec/2018/10/0... /


SEC coaches are bitching a lot about the contortions they have to go through in scheduling games for TV, especially ESPN. Because a good chunk of the schools are in the Central time zone, their Noon ET games start at 11 a.m. local time. Most students (and a lot of alumni) are barely out of bed by then. Then they have games that start at 2:30 p.m. for the 3:30 ET slot, plus games that start at 6 p.m. for the 7:00 ET slot and even 8 p.m. or 9 p.m. for other ESPN slots. It's not only very confusing for fans, but also can lead to some very late nights for those 8 p.m. or 9 p.m. games. Like with MACtion, it's part of the price you pay for the TV money.

As for Bama's situation, it's probably the fault of their success. They've won so much -- especially at home -- and by such big margins that most casual fans would probably consider winning to be a foregone conclusion and have gotten bored with it.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: College Attendance Football Woes
   Posted: 10/4/2018 12:13:03 PM 
Pataskala wrote:
OhioStunter wrote:
Look, if a program like Alabama -- national TV, perennial championship contender, big-time coach, great weather -- has trouble getting students to games, it's time to re-consider our expectations for OU students.

From the article:
["When I first came here, you used to play that tradition thing up there (on the video board) and everybody was cheering and excited and happy and there was great spirit," Saban continued. "Now they don't even cheer. They introduce our players and nobody even cheers. So I don't know, maybe there's something else somebody else ought to talk about. Maybe I shouldn't talk about it. Maybe I already talked about it more than I should."

Although the listed attendance for last Saturday's 11 a.m. kickoff was 101,471, the wealth of empty seats in the usually-full student section behind the south goal post was blatantly noticeable and something many fans and even a few players commented on after the game.]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/sec/2018/10/0... /


SEC coaches are bitching a lot about the contortions they have to go through in scheduling games for TV, especially ESPN. Because a good chunk of the schools are in the Central time zone, their Noon ET games start at 11 a.m. local time. Most students (and a lot of alumni) are barely out of bed by then. Then they have games that start at 2:30 p.m. for the 3:30 ET slot, plus games that start at 6 p.m. for the 7:00 ET slot and even 8 p.m. or 9 p.m. for other ESPN slots. It's not only very confusing for fans, but also can lead to some very late nights for those 8 p.m. or 9 p.m. games. Like with MACtion, it's part of the price you pay for the TV money.

As for Bama's situation, it's probably the fault of their success. They've won so much -- especially at home -- and by such big margins that most casual fans would probably consider winning to be a foregone conclusion and have gotten bored with it.


Alabama has played exactly TWO non-conference true road games since Saban has been head coach, which in turn means their home games also suck. It's not the fans' fault you schedule dog poo opponents for home games, Nick.

I think he's scared to get beat on his home turf to be honest.

https://fbschedules.com/ncaa/alabama /

Last Edited: 10/4/2018 12:13:35 PM by GoCats105
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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: College Attendance Football Woes
   Posted: 10/4/2018 1:17:03 PM 
On Saban:

So, if your customers are not showing up you go on TV and complain about them?

I guess Sears should be be out there saying "What the F people! Can't believe you are not here buying our stuff! We work hard and deserve better! Get off your ass and get in a store and spend your money!"

(Good grief.)

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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