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Topic:  The farce of the term "student athlete"

Topic:  The farce of the term "student athlete"
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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  The farce of the term "student athlete"
   Posted: 10/21/2018 4:49:24 PM 
http://sports-law.blogspot.com/2018/10/the-derogatory-ter...

This piece reinforces the sham of the NCAA.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The farce of the term "student athlete"
   Posted: 10/22/2018 6:28:49 AM 
I put up a couple of posts about the HBO "Student-Athlete" on the Adidas trial Thread on the basketball thread.

The documentary follows 4 athletes at various stages of their careers.

It really is a must see.
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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: The farce of the term "student athlete"
   Posted: 10/29/2018 6:17:36 PM 
I watched it a few days ago. Very interesting and thanks for recommending, as I had not heard of it.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The farce of the term "student athlete"
   Posted: 10/30/2018 6:59:36 AM 
Speaking of true Student-Athletes,there's an article in today's The Record by John Rowe,sorry I can't get it to link,about several kids from North Jersey who play football for M.I.T.

Its a DIII program.
They are 7-1.
They also have kids with majors like Physics,Aerospace and Mechanical Engineering,Applied Mathematics,Brain and Cognitive Science,to name a few.
Their back up QB has 3 majors.

As the article says,these are the types of kids the NCAA should be touting as Student-Athletes

Last Edited: 10/30/2018 6:59:52 AM by rpbobcat
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Sam bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The farce of the term "student athlete"
   Posted: 10/30/2018 7:46:11 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Speaking of true Student-Athletes

As the article says,these are the types of kids the NCAA should be touting as Student-Athletes


Are you insinuating that our players aren’t true student athletes?

Last Edited: 10/30/2018 7:47:22 AM by Sam bobcat
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The farce of the term "student athlete"
   Posted: 10/30/2018 8:10:52 AM 
Sam bobcat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Speaking of true Student-Athletes

As the article says,these are the types of kids the NCAA should be touting as Student-Athletes


Are you insinuating that our players aren’t true student athletes?


Not insinuating anything.

As I said in my post,the article says these are the types of athletes the NCAA should be touting as Student-Athletes.

This issue of players being true "student-athletes" has been discussed here before.

One thing that I didn't know,until I watched "Student-Athlete" ,is that
some coaches receive bonuses, based on players' GPA's,regardless of their classes.
So as one coach said,there really is no incentive to guide students towards meaningful classes.

In fact,it makes more sense,financially, not to.


Last Edited: 10/30/2018 8:13:51 AM by rpbobcat
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Sam bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The farce of the term "student athlete"
   Posted: 10/30/2018 10:19:35 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Sam bobcat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Speaking of true Student-Athletes

As the article says,these are the types of kids the NCAA should be touting as Student-Athletes


Are you insinuating that our players aren’t true student athletes?


Not insinuating anything.

As I said in my post,the article says these are the types of athletes the NCAA should be touting as Student-Athletes.

This issue of players being true "student-athletes" has been discussed here before.

One thing that I didn't know,until I watched "Student-Athlete" ,is that
some coaches receive bonuses, based on players' GPA's,regardless of their classes.
So as one coach said,there really is no incentive to guide students towards meaningful classes.

In fact,it makes more sense,financially, not to.



I see. Well that said, I will tout our players as true student athletes as well. I’m sure there are a lot of athletes out there who are doing the bare minimum in order to play sports, but I don’t see that at Ohio University. My son who plays for Ohio and has a 3.97 gpa in pre-med considers himself a true student athlete. And knowing his schedule, I doubt that the players at MIT study any harder or are any more dedicated to both their studies and athletics than he and many of his Ohio teammates are. I’m happy our staff are recruiting great student athletes and not just great football players. I hope some of our fans take that into account when complaining about performance and results not meeting their expectations. I’m sure we could win more games if we recruited more athletes who weren’t interested in academics. But I’m glad that we don’t. I have yet to be embarrassed by our team. I find that just as satisfying as winning a bowl game. Call me crazy.
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spongeBOB CATpants
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  Message Not Read  RE: The farce of the term "student athlete"
   Posted: 10/30/2018 12:47:54 PM 
Sam bobcat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Sam bobcat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Speaking of true Student-Athletes

As the article says,these are the types of kids the NCAA should be touting as Student-Athletes


Are you insinuating that our players aren’t true student athletes?


Not insinuating anything.

As I said in my post,the article says these are the types of athletes the NCAA should be touting as Student-Athletes.

This issue of players being true "student-athletes" has been discussed here before.

One thing that I didn't know,until I watched "Student-Athlete" ,is that
some coaches receive bonuses, based on players' GPA's,regardless of their classes.
So as one coach said,there really is no incentive to guide students towards meaningful classes.

In fact,it makes more sense,financially, not to.



I see. Well that said, I will tout our players as true student athletes as well. I’m sure there are a lot of athletes out there who are doing the bare minimum in order to play sports, but I don’t see that at Ohio University. My son who plays for Ohio and has a 3.97 gpa in pre-med considers himself a true student athlete. And knowing his schedule, I doubt that the players at MIT study any harder or are any more dedicated to both their studies and athletics than he and many of his Ohio teammates are. I’m happy our staff are recruiting great student athletes and not just great football players. I hope some of our fans take that into account when complaining about performance and results not meeting their expectations. I’m sure we could win more games if we recruited more athletes who weren’t interested in academics. But I’m glad that we don’t. I have yet to be embarrassed by our team. I find that just as satisfying as winning a bowl game. Call me crazy.


I agree and attest to this 100%. The "bad apples" don't seem to last very long at Ohio. I've witnessed kids get cut for missing class, low gpa, and just a general lack of responsibility as a student first. Commitment to the classroom is a telling sign of an athlete's character and truly shows itself on the field as well.
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rpbobcat
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Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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  Message Not Read  RE: The farce of the term "student athlete"
   Posted: 10/30/2018 12:55:49 PM 
Sam bobcat wrote:

I see. Well that said, I will tout our players as true student athletes as well. I’m sure there are a lot of athletes out there who are doing the bare minimum in order to play sports, but I don’t see that at Ohio University. My son who plays for Ohio and has a 3.97 gpa in pre-med considers himself a true student athlete. And knowing his schedule, I doubt that the players at MIT study any harder or are any more dedicated to both their studies and athletics than he and many of his Ohio teammates are. I’m happy our staff are recruiting great student athletes and not just great football players. I hope some of our fans take that into account when complaining about performance and results not meeting their expectations. I’m sure we could win more games if we recruited more athletes who weren’t interested in academics. But I’m glad that we don’t. I have yet to be embarrassed by our team. I find that just as satisfying as winning a bowl game. Call me crazy.


Unfortunately,the dedication required to be a true student athlete seems to have been lost on those professors who were/are so opposed to Sook.
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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: The farce of the term "student athlete"
   Posted: 10/30/2018 2:29:57 PM 
I completely agree. I am proud of our university and our athletic program. We do it the right way. One of the problems, as I see it, is the more we pay our coaches the higher the average fan's expectations for winning. Then the tail is wagging the dog, much like at other institutions who are participating in the arms race. I just want a good effort, players to graduate and a clean program.
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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: The farce of the term "student athlete"
   Posted: 10/30/2018 2:35:47 PM 
Regarding the Sook Center, I can understand where faculty are concerned about further isolating the athletes from the student body. Is Sook open to everyone? I studied at the library and turned out just fine. It seems to me that the very reason to have a Sook Center is because the time constraints are too much for athletes and they need lots of help as a result.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The farce of the term "student athlete"
   Posted: 10/30/2018 9:27:25 PM 
spongeBOB CATpants wrote:
Sam bobcat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Sam bobcat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Speaking of true Student-Athletes

As the article says,these are the types of kids the NCAA should be touting as Student-Athletes


Are you insinuating that our players aren’t true student athletes?


Not insinuating anything.

As I said in my post,the article says these are the types of athletes the NCAA should be touting as Student-Athletes.

This issue of players being true "student-athletes" has been discussed here before.

One thing that I didn't know,until I watched "Student-Athlete" ,is that
some coaches receive bonuses, based on players' GPA's,regardless of their classes.
So as one coach said,there really is no incentive to guide students towards meaningful classes.

In fact,it makes more sense,financially, not to.



I see. Well that said, I will tout our players as true student athletes as well. I’m sure there are a lot of athletes out there who are doing the bare minimum in order to play sports, but I don’t see that at Ohio University. My son who plays for Ohio and has a 3.97 gpa in pre-med considers himself a true student athlete. And knowing his schedule, I doubt that the players at MIT study any harder or are any more dedicated to both their studies and athletics than he and many of his Ohio teammates are. I’m happy our staff are recruiting great student athletes and not just great football players. I hope some of our fans take that into account when complaining about performance and results not meeting their expectations. I’m sure we could win more games if we recruited more athletes who weren’t interested in academics. But I’m glad that we don’t. I have yet to be embarrassed by our team. I find that just as satisfying as winning a bowl game. Call me crazy.


I agree and attest to this 100%. The "bad apples" don't seem to last very long at Ohio. I've witnessed kids get cut for missing class, low gpa, and just a general lack of responsibility as a student first. Commitment to the classroom is a telling sign of an athlete's character and truly shows itself on the field as well.


Just curious what Head Count Sport on the male side have you witnessed this?
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spongeBOB CATpants
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  Message Not Read  RE: The farce of the term "student athlete"
   Posted: 10/31/2018 11:15:43 AM 
giacomo wrote:
Regarding the Sook Center, I can understand where faculty are concerned about further isolating the athletes from the student body. Is Sook open to everyone? I studied at the library and turned out just fine. It seems to me that the very reason to have a Sook Center is because the time constraints are too much for athletes and they need lots of help as a result.


I see both sides here. However, many student-athletes have required study table hours. These require a student to sign in and out of a computer system to log that they were actually in attendance. I don't really see an alternative process other than having a student-athlete academic center.

I studied at the library once I wasn't required to attend study tables. Simply for the fact that it was a much shorter walk from off campus housing. The library just isn't an ideal place to get stuff done, too many distractions and often it was overcrowded to the point where I would just leave. I was able to manage but for a lot of kids its tough to tune out all the commotion going on.

Prior to Sook being built, study table hours were completed in Peden's pressbox and was 100x too small to house everybody.
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spongeBOB CATpants
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  Message Not Read  RE: The farce of the term "student athlete"
   Posted: 10/31/2018 11:31:58 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
spongeBOB CATpants wrote:
Sam bobcat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Sam bobcat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Speaking of true Student-Athletes

As the article says,these are the types of kids the NCAA should be touting as Student-Athletes


Are you insinuating that our players aren’t true student athletes?


Not insinuating anything.

As I said in my post,the article says these are the types of athletes the NCAA should be touting as Student-Athletes.

This issue of players being true "student-athletes" has been discussed here before.

One thing that I didn't know,until I watched "Student-Athlete" ,is that
some coaches receive bonuses, based on players' GPA's,regardless of their classes.
So as one coach said,there really is no incentive to guide students towards meaningful classes.

In fact,it makes more sense,financially, not to.



I see. Well that said, I will tout our players as true student athletes as well. I’m sure there are a lot of athletes out there who are doing the bare minimum in order to play sports, but I don’t see that at Ohio University. My son who plays for Ohio and has a 3.97 gpa in pre-med considers himself a true student athlete. And knowing his schedule, I doubt that the players at MIT study any harder or are any more dedicated to both their studies and athletics than he and many of his Ohio teammates are. I’m happy our staff are recruiting great student athletes and not just great football players. I hope some of our fans take that into account when complaining about performance and results not meeting their expectations. I’m sure we could win more games if we recruited more athletes who weren’t interested in academics. But I’m glad that we don’t. I have yet to be embarrassed by our team. I find that just as satisfying as winning a bowl game. Call me crazy.


I agree and attest to this 100%. The "bad apples" don't seem to last very long at Ohio. I've witnessed kids get cut for missing class, low gpa, and just a general lack of responsibility as a student first. Commitment to the classroom is a telling sign of an athlete's character and truly shows itself on the field as well.


Just curious what Head Count Sport on the male side have you witnessed this?


I actually don't know if I have directly witnessed this in a head count sport now that you mention it. I would hope all of our teams are held to the same standard but in the Equivalency Sport I played, I've literally seen a kid get told to get off the bus after Coach got attendance reports.

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The farce of the term "student athlete"
   Posted: 10/31/2018 11:54:33 AM 
spongeBOB CATpants wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
spongeBOB CATpants wrote:
Sam bobcat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Sam bobcat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Speaking of true Student-Athletes

As the article says,these are the types of kids the NCAA should be touting as Student-Athletes


Are you insinuating that our players aren’t true student athletes?


Not insinuating anything.

As I said in my post,the article says these are the types of athletes the NCAA should be touting as Student-Athletes.

This issue of players being true "student-athletes" has been discussed here before.

One thing that I didn't know,until I watched "Student-Athlete" ,is that
some coaches receive bonuses, based on players' GPA's,regardless of their classes.
So as one coach said,there really is no incentive to guide students towards meaningful classes.

In fact,it makes more sense,financially, not to.



I see. Well that said, I will tout our players as true student athletes as well. I’m sure there are a lot of athletes out there who are doing the bare minimum in order to play sports, but I don’t see that at Ohio University. My son who plays for Ohio and has a 3.97 gpa in pre-med considers himself a true student athlete. And knowing his schedule, I doubt that the players at MIT study any harder or are any more dedicated to both their studies and athletics than he and many of his Ohio teammates are. I’m happy our staff are recruiting great student athletes and not just great football players. I hope some of our fans take that into account when complaining about performance and results not meeting their expectations. I’m sure we could win more games if we recruited more athletes who weren’t interested in academics. But I’m glad that we don’t. I have yet to be embarrassed by our team. I find that just as satisfying as winning a bowl game. Call me crazy.


I agree and attest to this 100%. The "bad apples" don't seem to last very long at Ohio. I've witnessed kids get cut for missing class, low gpa, and just a general lack of responsibility as a student first. Commitment to the classroom is a telling sign of an athlete's character and truly shows itself on the field as well.


Just curious what Head Count Sport on the male side have you witnessed this?


I actually don't know if I have directly witnessed this in a head count sport now that you mention it. I would hope all of our teams are held to the same standard but in the Equivalency Sport I played, I've literally seen a kid get told to get off the bus after Coach got attendance reports.



Definitely happens in equivalency sports, that money is scarce and you have to get value out of that investment in both the classroom and on the field/court/pool. Also not unusual for the dollar amount to change drastically from one year to the other based on status on the team and depth chart. May not be fair, however that is the accepted practice in those sports. Head Count sports, you will rarely (if ever) find this practice.
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spongeBOB CATpants
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  Message Not Read  RE: The farce of the term "student athlete"
   Posted: 10/31/2018 12:29:03 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
spongeBOB CATpants wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
spongeBOB CATpants wrote:
Sam bobcat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Sam bobcat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Speaking of true Student-Athletes

As the article says,these are the types of kids the NCAA should be touting as Student-Athletes


Are you insinuating that our players aren’t true student athletes?


Not insinuating anything.

As I said in my post,the article says these are the types of athletes the NCAA should be touting as Student-Athletes.

This issue of players being true "student-athletes" has been discussed here before.

One thing that I didn't know,until I watched "Student-Athlete" ,is that
some coaches receive bonuses, based on players' GPA's,regardless of their classes.
So as one coach said,there really is no incentive to guide students towards meaningful classes.

In fact,it makes more sense,financially, not to.



I see. Well that said, I will tout our players as true student athletes as well. I’m sure there are a lot of athletes out there who are doing the bare minimum in order to play sports, but I don’t see that at Ohio University. My son who plays for Ohio and has a 3.97 gpa in pre-med considers himself a true student athlete. And knowing his schedule, I doubt that the players at MIT study any harder or are any more dedicated to both their studies and athletics than he and many of his Ohio teammates are. I’m happy our staff are recruiting great student athletes and not just great football players. I hope some of our fans take that into account when complaining about performance and results not meeting their expectations. I’m sure we could win more games if we recruited more athletes who weren’t interested in academics. But I’m glad that we don’t. I have yet to be embarrassed by our team. I find that just as satisfying as winning a bowl game. Call me crazy.


I agree and attest to this 100%. The "bad apples" don't seem to last very long at Ohio. I've witnessed kids get cut for missing class, low gpa, and just a general lack of responsibility as a student first. Commitment to the classroom is a telling sign of an athlete's character and truly shows itself on the field as well.


Just curious what Head Count Sport on the male side have you witnessed this?


I actually don't know if I have directly witnessed this in a head count sport now that you mention it. I would hope all of our teams are held to the same standard but in the Equivalency Sport I played, I've literally seen a kid get told to get off the bus after Coach got attendance reports.



Definitely happens in equivalency sports, that money is scarce and you have to get value out of that investment in both the classroom and on the field/court/pool. Also not unusual for the dollar amount to change drastically from one year to the other based on status on the team and depth chart. May not be fair, however that is the accepted practice in those sports. Head Count sports, you will rarely (if ever) find this practice.


Makes total sense. I give a lot of credit to equivalency sport head coaches. Seems like they have a lot more going on in terms of responsibilities with a lot less help. Not to mention a much smaller pay check.
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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: The farce of the term "student athlete"
   Posted: 11/1/2018 4:25:48 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Speaking of true Student-Athletes,there's an article in today's The Record by John Rowe,sorry I can't get it to link,about several kids from North Jersey who play football for M.I.T.

Its a DIII program.
They are 7-1.
They also have kids with majors like Physics,Aerospace and Mechanical Engineering,Applied Mathematics,Brain and Cognitive Science,to name a few.
Their back up QB has 3 majors.

As the article says,these are the types of kids the NCAA should be touting as Student-Athletes


The athletes they (and giacomo) are referring to make up less than 1% of the students who participate in college athletics. There is no myth. My son is a swimmer at a DIII school and this is the list of majors of the kids in his 8 person recruiting class:

Chemical Engineering
Biomedical Engineering x2
Architecture
Mechanical Engineering
Aerospace Engineering
Biology and Psychology
Computer Science

The vast majority of student-athletes have to work their collective tails off.
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smc22
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Post Count: 66

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  Message Not Read  RE: The farce of the term "student athlete"
   Posted: 11/1/2018 8:22:08 PM 
so many thoughts on this.

the first thought i've give is this........ up here in canada, people debate CIS (canadian university) basketball vs. NCAA basketball. but when people talk about NCAA basketball they tend to think of kansas, duke, kentucky etc.. when the truth is 98% of NCAA basketball isn't like that. and 99.999% of NCAA sports aren't like that.

it is very time consuming no matter what....... i know of a canadian player who came back to our country for university football partially because it was 7-8 hours a day on football (he was QB) and he wasn't necessarily planning on playing pro football (he wouldn't have played at QB).

i remember my dad and i laughing our guts out at SNL (one of the few times) when they had a skit where okafor couldn't play in the NCAA title game because he had a chemistry exam the next morning... just the idea that that was comically absurd should tell you everything you need to know about big time NCAA sports.
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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: The farce of the term "student athlete"
   Posted: 11/1/2018 9:15:07 PM 
Van, I agree with you. However, when coaches make millions it ceases to be an amateur endeavor. The money is there and the colleges don't want the financial responsibility of having athletes as employees, with all the regulations that it comes with. The MAC really doesn't play in that league. If it wasn't for the student fees, I doubt football and basketball coaches would make more than 150k.
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