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Topic: EMU Turf

Topic: EMU Turf

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rpbobcat
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Member Since: 4/28/2006
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EMU Turf

Posted: 10/28/2018 1:07:32 PM

Watched part of the EMU/Army game yesterday.

First time I ever saw grey turf.

It washed the colors to the point where it was like watching the game in black and white,except for the close ups and the green end zones.

Long Train Runnin'
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Member Since: 12/25/2004
Location: Cambridge, OH
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RE: EMU Turf

Posted: 10/28/2018 7:53:22 PM

rpbobcat wrote:

It looks like they are playing in a parking lot.

Pataskala
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RE: EMU Turf

Posted: 10/28/2018 9:56:42 PM

Boise has had a trademark on non-green football fields since 2010. https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160913/09221335507/bo...

They apparently don't charge a licensing fee so long as the other school doesn't try to compare itself to Boise.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

mf279801
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Location: Newark, DE
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RE: EMU Turf

Posted: 10/29/2018 12:31:18 AM

I feel like that's a trademark that wouldn't stand up to legal challenge (and the author of that article agrees).
Heck, Eastern Washington has had a red field for years (since 2010 actually, according to wikipedia)

rpbobcat
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RE: EMU Turf

Posted: 10/29/2018 7:22:16 AM

mf279801 wrote:

Eastern Washington has had a red field for years (since 2010 actually, according to wikipedia)

As I've posted before,I've designed a number of synthetic turf fields.

"Fading" has always been a problem.

Years ago Field Turf used a lead based dye to prevent green turf from fading.
The lead was "encapsulated" ,so the only way it could be a problem was if you ate over 100 lbs. of the plastic.

They eventually developed a non fading,non lead based, dye.

Thing is,"photo active" colors, like blue and red, still fade.

Red is one of the worst,especially in the South where the sun is more intense.
After a few years,red fields are pink.
So,even if the turf is in good shape,you have to replace it because of the color.

The number of red and blue fields is minimal.So I don't know haw much effort has gone into addressing the fading issue.

OU_Country
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RE: EMU Turf

Posted: 10/29/2018 11:58:04 AM

The only field/court worse than EMU's football field is NIU's basketball floor. Both make it harder to watch a televised game.

BillyTheCat
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RE: EMU Turf

Posted: 10/29/2018 12:59:35 PM

Marietta College has a Grey field as well. Installed this year. And yes, colors even in the newest fields still wear faster than the green.

OUcats82
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Location: Cincinnati, OH
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RE: EMU Turf

Posted: 10/29/2018 1:43:36 PM

OU_Country wrote:

The only field/court worse than EMU's football field is NIU's basketball floor. Both make it harder to watch a televised game.

This is kind of hard to look at........

https://ucasports.com/sports/2010/8/9/FB_0809101221.aspx

Ohio-The State University

GoCats105
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Location: Seattle, WA
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RE: EMU Turf

Posted: 10/29/2018 4:48:26 PM

I'm personally a fan of Coastal Carolina's teal look:

https://www.google.com/search?q=coastal+carolina+football...

mf279801
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RE: EMU Turf

Posted: 10/29/2018 5:18:16 PM

Ooooo
Honestly it looks like a large swimming pool from the linked picture

TheBobcatBandit
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RE: EMU Turf

Posted: 10/29/2018 6:19:28 PM

Color me a fan of Coastal Carolinas stadium.

I think it would look good if Ohio did what University of Central Arkansas did.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estes_Stadium

Instead of purple and white we would have black and geeen. Thoughts?

catfan28
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RE: EMU Turf

Posted: 10/29/2018 7:19:25 PM

TheBobcatBandit wrote:

Maybe I'm old school, but black is NOT a school color. Don't mind it as a one-off jersey...but I don't need it on the field.

TheBobcatBandit
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RE: EMU Turf

Posted: 10/30/2018 12:57:09 AM

catfan28 wrote:

TheBobcatBandit wrote:

Maybe I'm old school, but black is NOT a school color. Don't mind it as a one-off jersey...but I don't need it on the field.

Valid point. Would be willing compromise to green and white stripes instead.

rpbobcat
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RE: EMU Turf

Posted: 10/30/2018 6:46:57 AM

I've had a couple of clients look into using other then green turf for their football/soccer fields.

One concern is "buyer's remorse".
You decide on the turf's colors from a computer simulation.
Once you order,that's it.

Kind of like a car.
That "unusual" color,a few years ago safety yellow was popular out here,looks great the day you get the car.But, after a while, people were asking "what the
f _ _ k was I thinking".

Thing is,with a car you can either sell it or paint it.

With turf,its yours for 15 years or so.
Unless you want to spend the money to replace the mat.

So far,after thinking about it,every client I've worked with has decided to go with green turf.
The only "crazy colors" they've tried are in end zones.

Even with end zones,we've had a couple of projects where,after a year or two,they took out the end zones,we designed them to be removable,and went to conventional colors.

OUcats82
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Location: Cincinnati, OH
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RE: EMU Turf

Posted: 10/30/2018 9:42:30 AM

rpbobcat wrote:

A question for you since you are in the business, if you are willing to answer.

I'm sure it varies, but how much of the final field comes pre-painted? Meaning hashmarks, logos etc.? Is a lot of that painted on site or done in the factory ahead of time?

I've noticed teams that maybe sold their name of the stadium to a company or maybe have a new conference that there is more of a patch work as the background green doesn't match the rest of the field due to fading, UV impact etc.

Also, is it common for facilities that are shared by multiple teams (say NCAA and NFL, or maybe MLS) to have a different roll of material for the endzones that are changed out as needed?

Ohio-The State University

OU_Country
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RE: EMU Turf

Posted: 10/30/2018 9:48:36 AM

TheBobcatBandit wrote:

catfan28 wrote:

TheBobcatBandit wrote:

Maybe I'm old school, but black is NOT a school color. Don't mind it as a one-off jersey...but I don't need it on the field.

Valid point. Would be willing compromise to green and white stripes instead.

For Ohio, the only way I'd do that is if they did two shades of green in those stripes. Personally, I feel like leaving the field green is the best way to go, and then do different things with the end zones.

GoCats105
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RE: EMU Turf

Posted: 10/30/2018 11:18:05 AM

OU_Country wrote:

TheBobcatBandit wrote:

catfan28 wrote:

TheBobcatBandit wrote:

Maybe I'm old school, but black is NOT a school color. Don't mind it as a one-off jersey...but I don't need it on the field.

Valid point. Would be willing compromise to green and white stripes instead.

I think some stadiums already do that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_Stadium#/media/Fil...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autzen_Stadium#/media/File:...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yulman_Stadium#/media/File:...

rpbobcat
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Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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RE: EMU Turf

Posted: 10/30/2018 11:25:39 AM

OUcats82 wrote:

Happy to answer.
Engineers like me live for this stuff.

All of the synthetic turf fields I've done are Field Turf,so I can only talk about their products.

1.None of the permanent markings are "painted".
They're actually sewn into the turf.
Used to be that the permanent markings were all installed on site.
You'd "shave" the turf and then sew in the markings.
Now I'd say at least 85% of the permanent markings are installed at the factory.

2.You can "paint" temporary markings on the turf.
Most fields we do have permanent football and soccer markings.
Some schools now use the fields for lacrosse or field hockey too.
So that means temporary markings.
You use latex paint.
Field Turf tells you what type of paint to use.
The also give you a "dilution ratio" for how long you want the markings to last.

3.Changing permanent markings and repairing synthetic turf is always an issue.
The area around bases wears much faster then the rest of the turf,so they have be replaced at least a couple of times over the life of the rest of the turf.
We always recommend replacing the turf around all of the bases,so the colors match.There will be some differences with the rest of infield,if its supposed to look like "skin",but you do the best you can.
Sometimes we'll use a contrasting color,around the bases,to "hide" the difference.

Green turf is tougher.
In addition to fading,the "model" of turf may no longer be available.Field Turf is constantly upgrading their products.So, in addition to an exact color match,"texture" may also be different.
That's happens a lot,when you have to try to repair "older" (5+ years) turf.

4.As far as the same field being used for different teams.
Some high schools,like Birnie Crum in Allentown have dual logs.
If you have a limited budget,you get "blank" turf and paint the logos as needed.

If you're the NFL,you do like Metlife.
They had,don't know if they still do,several "sets" of end zone turfs in trays (Jets,Giants,"blank").
Just "zip" (literally) one out and put another one in.
Just takes a couple of hours each.
If not, you have to remove the "infill",roll up the mat,roll out the alternate
mat and reinstall the infill.
Takes just bit longer.

Interesting story about temporary markings.
At one time,Giants Stadium was used for some soccer games.
The used to paint temporary markings.
Thing is,the NFL requires NFL football markings only.
That meant "scrubbing" off the temporary markings after the game was over.
Then the field had to be inspected to assure none of the markings were visible.
Any sign of a marking,re-scrub.
Needless to say,that cut the turf's useuful life way down.
way down.

rpbobcat
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RE: EMU Turf

Posted: 10/30/2018 11:32:16 AM

GoCats105 wrote:

OU_Country wrote:

TheBobcatBandit wrote:

catfan28 wrote:

TheBobcatBandit wrote:

Maybe I'm old school, but black is NOT a school color. Don't mind it as a one-off jersey...but I don't need it on the field.

Valid point. Would be willing compromise to green and white stripes instead.

Every football field I've ever designed uses alternating light green/dark green synthetic turf.
The shades alternate at 5 yard intervals,except at mid field.
From the 45's we use 10 yards of dark green turf.

TheBobcatBandit
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RE: EMU Turf

Posted: 10/30/2018 3:03:15 PM

GoCats105 wrote:

OU_Country wrote:

TheBobcatBandit wrote:

catfan28 wrote:

TheBobcatBandit wrote:

Maybe I'm old school, but black is NOT a school color. Don't mind it as a one-off jersey...but I don't need it on the field.

Valid point. Would be willing compromise to green and white stripes instead.

In that case I would vote to go with the Tennessee enzone, but in green and white.

BillyTheCat
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RE: EMU Turf

Posted: 10/30/2018 9:32:39 PM

OUcats82 wrote:

rpbobcat wrote:

Any field from any legitimate athletic department will pay the extra bucks to have the hash marks, field Hockey, soccer, lacrosse lines sewn in. Endzones can be replaceable, it's work and a little extra money and less labor and supplies than painting and cleaning, and you really only see this at true multi-use facilities, but yes, to answer your question, multi use facilities have separate rolls of turf or trays of turf for specialization of logos.. Other paint the field on an add needed basis.

Last Edited: 10/30/2018 9:36:36 PM by BillyTheCat

rpbobcat
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RE: EMU Turf

Posted: 10/31/2018 6:56:39 AM

BillyTheCat wrote:

The issue of having multiple field markings isn't money.
In fact,it really doesn't affect the cost much at all.
From my experiences,it comes down to just a couple of things:

1.Egos

2.Confusion

1.We've done 2 fields for schools where football is king.
The football coaches and boosters made it very clear to the school boards that
this was "their field".
The only permanent markings they wanted were for football.
In both cases the school board went along.
In fact,in one case,soccer is only allowed to use the "football" field (its the only field with lights) for 1 or 2 games a year.
What the school boards eventually did was convert a natural turf field to
synthetic.

B.To try to please everyone,we had to design a field that had permanent markings for football,soccer,field hockey and lacrosse.
Even using different color markings,there were nothing but complaints about how "confusing" the field was.
Just replaced that synthetic turf this past summer.
They learned their lesson.
Just football and soccer markings on the new turf.

Last Edited: 10/31/2018 7:18:57 AM by rpbobcat

Only one OHIO
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RE: EMU Turf

Posted: 10/31/2018 8:30:34 AM

Interesting stuff, rpbobcat. thanks for sharing!

BillyTheCat
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RE: EMU Turf

Posted: 10/31/2018 10:27:32 AM

rpbobcat wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

Actually no, being involved on several field projects, to many schools the issue is money. I have actually worked with fields that did not even have the hash marks put in due to the cost, and simply painted them each week. It's all personal preference on lines, same with a basketball court, do we paint VB lines each week or have them down. However, economics do factor in for some.

BillyTheCat
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RE: EMU Turf

Posted: 10/31/2018 10:34:56 AM

Example would be Columbus DeSales High School who just replaced their first turf field, the old one had NO hash marks or endzone designs, just 5 yard marks, no numbers, nothing. For them their decision was simple, came down to money. There are several examples like this.

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