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Topic: Sook

Topic: Sook

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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
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Sook

Posted: 10/17/2017 4:27:34 PM

Since it will become part of the stadium, I thought this link might best go here.

http://www.thepostathens.com/article/2017/10/sook-center-...

Panda
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Member Since: 12/22/2004
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RE: Sook

Posted: 10/17/2017 5:00:56 PM

David Ripath is again trying to stir the muck. I have not previously seen any remarks concerning how the athletes have been consulted This program has been going on for at least 12 years. Why didn't Dave volunteer his services for the past 12 years.

Really, this not any of the faculty's business

Last Edited: 10/17/2017 5:09:33 PM by Panda

Panda

ou79
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RE: Sook

Posted: 10/17/2017 5:21:50 PM

If Academics wants to run Sook, they or the University should immediately give Athletics the $5,000,000 to $6,000,000 that Athletics raised through donations to build it.

BillyTheCat
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RE: Sook

Posted: 10/17/2017 6:43:33 PM

Panda wrote:

Ridpath, a man of great character, banned from the NCAA and banned from the Athens Sandlot Fields for his behavior towards a female coache. And he's in the paper speaking on ethics.

Pete Chouteau
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RE: Sook

Posted: 10/17/2017 8:08:02 PM

What a load of crap.

OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: Sook

Posted: 10/18/2017 1:03:54 AM

I have a dissenting opinion. While I don't have a whole lot of time for Professor Ridpath in general, I won't dismiss this idea because he's promoting it. Actually, I think that this is a good proposal. We are an academic institution first and foremost. The UNC scandal should cause us to realign the way we do certain things. To have someone other than athletics running the advising and tutoring seems to me very appropriate. The other aspects of control of the Academic Center should remain with athletics, but the advising should not be controlled by athletics, or you run the risk of setting up less rigorous standards for athletes versus non-athletes.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

BillyTheCat
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RE: Sook

Posted: 10/18/2017 8:20:32 AM

OhioCatFan wrote:

All students still have advisors. However those advisories are only concerned with the major requirements of the student, and know nothing about the NCAA component. I'm willing to bet when you were advising that you had little understanding of NCAA eligibility rules, the legalities of tutoring and extra benefits, or the demands on time of individual sports.

Alan Swank
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RE: Sook

Posted: 10/18/2017 8:52:54 AM

OhioCatFan wrote:

I agree with this. It can be a center for athletes but let the academic people run it not athletic people acting in an academic capacity. Anyone can learn the rules. It's just much cleaner this way and more palatable for those who aren't necessarily in favor of the center in the first place. It's called compromise.

OU_Country
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Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
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RE: Sook

Posted: 10/18/2017 9:52:59 AM

Alan Swank wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

I see nothing wrong with someone not from athletics running the tutoring and academic advising portion of this operation. Frankly, following the various scandals, including UNC, it would probably look really good on Ohio University to do this.

bobcat695
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RE: Sook

Posted: 10/18/2017 10:16:43 AM

I would assume donors to the Academic Center are more interested in education for the athletes than eligibility. Athletic Departments around the country have gotten in trouble for focusing solely on eligibility. I don't see a problem with this as long as the academic side understands the importance of athletics on campus. I believe it can be mutually beneficial to use this approach.

"You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15

Ohio69
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RE: Sook

Posted: 10/18/2017 10:30:14 AM

BillyTheCat wrote:

Ridpath, a man of great character, banned from the NCAA and banned from the Athens Sandlot Fields for his behavior towards a female coache. And he's in the paper speaking on ethics.

Buuuurrrrrrnnnnnnn! Or Bazinga! Whichever you prefer....

Look, I assume the athletic department of the most media covered university in the world (Ohio University), with a group of faculty obsessed with athletics to absurd levels, would take great care to do his the right way. So, I'm not too worried.... (maybe)....

Last Edited: 10/18/2017 10:32:56 AM by Ohio69

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

sargentfan
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RE: Sook

Posted: 10/18/2017 11:00:30 AM

I too can't argue against the idea of the academic advising of athletes being run by the Academic side with the Athletic Dept involved as a stakeholder. The running of the building would depend on who is paying. If the Athletic Dept is they should have sole authority. However if the University is then there should be some joint management just like we have with the IPF.

.
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RE: Sook

Posted: 10/18/2017 12:32:06 PM

Seems like there'd be a compromise that could be designed.

But who am I kidding.

ytownbobcat
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RE: Sook

Posted: 10/18/2017 1:34:42 PM

Ohio athletics overall has a higher GPA than the general Ohio student population.
Also doesn't tutoring and academic assistance take place on the road when athletic teams are traveling? Seems better that athletics manages the entire thing.
If it ain't broke don't fix it. If it is broke , (and I don't know it) then entertain a better arrangement.

OhioStunter
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Location: Chicago
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RE: Sook

Posted: 10/18/2017 1:40:51 PM

"To prevent these negative outcomes, and thereby to ensure the excellence of Ohio University�s teaching mission for all of its students, the Ohio University Chapter of the American Association of University Professors formally requests of President Nellis and Interim Provost Descutner that
the supervision, financing, management, and control of the soon-to-be finished Sook Center cease to remain under the control of the athletic department in any way."

Translation: Even though the Athletics Department fought hard to raise millions in DONOR MONEY from those who wanted to invest in Ohio Athletics and student-athletes, as well as managed the design/building of this center, we don't want the Athletics Department to operate it or have anything to do with it in any way.

Alan Swank
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RE: Sook

Posted: 10/18/2017 2:20:31 PM

OhioStunter wrote:

Same could be said for the multi-purpose facility and the management of it by student affairs has worked out quite well.

OhioStunter
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Location: Chicago
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RE: Sook

Posted: 10/18/2017 2:29:50 PM

bobcat695 wrote:

But the two (eligibility and education) are symbiotic. I don't really see them as being separate. If the focus is on keeping them eligible, tutoring can help them keep their grades at an acceptable level --> education.

As someone who has taken advantage of additional athletics department tutoring support, it is much appreciated. And I would almost deem it necessary given the amount of travel/practice time many of the student-athletes commit to.

There is often a stigma associated with student-athletes that they have it "easy" when it comes to classes. In many cases, they have it much harder -- especially the ones with more difficult course work.

With the advent of #MACtion weeknight games for football, this can make it much worse for football players. There are also other teams that travel during the week.

We can lament the perils of weekday games as fans, but students traveling to/from Michigan on a weekday is not easy when it comes to making up classes/tests.

It takes balance and compromise, from coaches, professors and the student-athletes themselves to make it work. And I think OU has a pretty good system in place that should only get better with the Sook Center.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Sook

Posted: 10/18/2017 2:56:50 PM

OhioStunter wrote:

Note that in my previous post I only conceded that academic tutoring and support should not be under athletics. All other aspects of control, IMHO, should be retained by the AD's office. I don't think that this should be treated like the IPF.

Alan Swank
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: Sook

Posted: 10/18/2017 5:22:55 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

OhioStunter wrote:

I would agree but that really only means seven times a year - the six home games and the spring game.

L.C.
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RE: Sook

Posted: 10/18/2017 6:22:41 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

I would agree but that really only means seven times a year - the six home games and the spring game.

You lost me, Alan. What are you saying is related to football home games? I would think the Sook would be in use every day, football game days, and every other day. It's also my impression that even though the Sook is adjacent to the stadium, football has no special claims to it, and that it's for the use of athletes from all sports.

I'm a little puzzled by this whole discussion. I think everyone would agree that the Academic side should have control over curriculum, course requirements, grading, academic standards, etc. I don't comprehend the argument that it should matter to them what methods students of any type use to prepare for the classes. Suppose I wanted to study at home, should I need permission? Suppose I hire a tutor, does it have to be one they certify?

Note, I do see that there is an advantage to working with the academic side. Where better, for example, to get qualified tutors? Saying that there are advantages, however, is different from saying it must be that way, or no way. Clearly, whatever they are using for a structure today is working. Therefore, it seems like someone would need to show some clear advantages from an alternative to justify changing the status quo.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Alan Swank
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: Sook

Posted: 10/18/2017 9:19:37 PM

L.C. wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

I would agree but that really only means seven times a year - the six home games and the spring game.

I meant that athletics only needs it 7 times a year for game day hospitality (six home game and the spring game). Other than those 7 days, it's a glorified study hall which the academic side of the university should be controlling.

L.C.
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RE: Sook

Posted: 10/18/2017 9:49:17 PM

So, you don't think Athletics should be able to use it on Basketball game days? Or on Volleyball game days? Or on Baseball game days? Or, on non-game days? Given that it's not a football facility, I don't see the tie in the appropriateness of the use of the facility to football game days. Yes, there will inherently be activity in the environs of the Sook on football game days, but that certainly doesn't mean it's the only time it might be used, and in fact, those days might be harder days for some uses due to all the people around.

Again, I don't think it should be "athletics versus academics". In theory, at least, both groups should want what is best for the students, and therefore there ought to be multiple possible ways to make the Sook work for everyone.

By the way, if it is so essential that the academic side of the University controls this building, is it true that they have controlled the former Athletic study facility in Peden Tower? If not, why not?

Last Edited: 10/18/2017 10:33:58 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

CA Bobcat
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RE: Sook

Posted: 10/19/2017 12:15:04 AM

Wow, where to begin. First, I was an Assistant AD for Academic Services and Compliance at an NCAA DI institution. If anyone else has held a similar position, please let me/us know. I have overseen an academic center for student-athletes and a certified tutor program. The idea of having the Academic side of the University oversee or manage the Sook Center is just dumb. For starters, cross functional alignment is an integral component of running an effective and compliant academic services program which includes academic support staff, coaches, student-athletes and athletics leadership. Everyone must be on board with the program and how it's being run. That won't work when the people running the program don't report into the same department as the people participating in the program, especially at OU, where the Academic side appears to have a pretty major "beef" with college athletics in general. Yeah, that's going to go real well. If you don't see this as just a political move by these "academics" who have their panties in a bunch about an athletics only facility, then you're totally out to lunch.

Then there's the rules component. Dear God, the number of times I had to educate the Academic side about all the NCAA eligibility rules, etc. only to have to continually remind and educate them because the traditional "advisors" kept screwing things up which would render a student-athlete ineligible. I can't imagine people from that arm of the University world trying (or caring to) manage things properly. I could go on and on.

People need to get it through their thick skulls...student-athletes are special and have special needs that require special attention and care from a special academic support staff. Example: my university had a very strict class attendance policy and due to the proximity of the schools in conference, we had soccer and tennis teams traveling all over the Earth during the week for competition. I had professors who were prepared to fail the student-athlete for missing class due to participation in University sponsored NCAA DI athletics competition. The Athletics-based Academic Support Advisor is going to work across the University within the guidelines of the rules (which they know and understand - and are changing all the time btw - yet they're required to know and understand) to find a reasonable solution so the student-athlete doesn't fail out of school for missing classes due to playing a sport which that same school recruited him/her to play (and are required to play to get the financial aid they signed up for). Just one of many examples. Academic-based counselors aren't going to advocate for the student-athlete in these scenarios because they don't report into the athletics department and guess who's going to suffer...you're student-athletes and then your athletics reputation.

This is also a matter of institutional control and as an AD, I'll be damned if I'm going to be on the hook to ensure my athletics department complies with all rules and regulations when I've got a whole arm of my operation that's out of my control. That's a lot of exposure and frankly, I don't want to be an AD where I don't have that control. It just takes one rogue or ignorant academic counselor or tutor to destroy everything and that can happen whether it lives on the Academic side or the Athletics side but let's be serious - where is it going to get undivided attention and oversight?!? Based on experience, there's only one correct answer - Athletics.

Why aren't these same "academics" requesting that the Athletics business affairs be managed by the University business office? Or, the NCAA compliance affairs be managed by the University Legal arm? Or, the Athletics fundraising handled exclusively by the University Advancement team? NCAA secondary violations and major infractions can easily occur in each of those areas, too, so why not? Umm, because that would also be very dumb and ultimately, because none of those functions are building an athletics only facility.

RSBobcat
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RE: Sook

Posted: 10/19/2017 12:28:39 AM

CA Bobcat wrote:

Great - First post on this that is not largely based on "conjecture"

RS Bobcat

L.C.
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Location: United States
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RE: Sook

Posted: 10/19/2017 2:33:37 AM

Truly an informative post, from someone with actual knowledge in the area. Thank you.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

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