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Topic: About those New Year's Six Bowl Aspirations...

Topic: About those New Year's Six Bowl Aspirations...

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Buck.Cat
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About those New Year's Six Bowl Aspirations...

Posted: 9/23/2018 12:35:50 PM

Should have pumped the brakes in the pre-season predictions. How's the weather looking like in Boise this year? Although, that is probably a reach as well.

Buckeye to Bobcat
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RE: About those New Year's Six Bowl Aspirations...

Posted: 9/23/2018 1:21:14 PM

I will admit that I thought this year was going to be different. But like looking at the Hocking River, the flow hasn't changed significantly in 14 years.

Can we rally for a bowl? Maybe. But so far I have not been impressed and the MAC is going to be a load, including Miami.

Last Edited: 9/23/2018 1:22:00 PM by Buckeye to Bobcat

OUcats82
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RE: About those New Year's Six Bowl Aspirations...

Posted: 9/24/2018 11:10:16 AM

Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:

They will be for sure, but I think we put up a as good a fight against UC, if not better. Not really a fair comparison given the conditions of our two games. Ohio may win a MAC game or two via blowout, but it will be more a result of being one of those fluky games where the other team just can't catch a break. OUr defense is just too porous to shut down an opponent.

I think what is frustrating about supporting a MAC team is you know going in that the odds of a major bowl game are very rare, one step short of impossible. You would almost need to have back to back strong seasons just to build your case/resume.

Being well aware of this, for me the realistic expectations/standards have been:

1) Winning the MAC

2) Scoring wins over P5 or other G5 schools with at least better name recognition/perceived quality-with regularity (such as UC).

3) Winning the bowl games that you do make.

These are places where you can make hay, build a program, and have things to hang your hat on.

While Ohio Football is, overall, on the strongest footing it has been in a few generations, the results are good/OK, but not at the top of what I would think is a realistic perch for programs in our position. Looking at these three areas, there have been hits, but a lot more misses IMHO. This is what is most aggravating for me-that there seems to be a ceiling in place that can but has not been broken through.

Looking a little closer at the three things I listed above:

1) That run to the 2006 MACC was one of my favorite Ohio sports memories, period. It stunk to lose to CMU but gosh I was just so happy to get there. Ditto maybe for the next appearance (and loss to CMU).

2011 REALLY stung. I remember following the game on my phone as I was at a function with no TV. Made it home in the 3rd quarter and watched the whole collapse before my eyes. I still cannot think about it and not get aggravated (I'm sure I'm not alone). A win here and I think any measure of criticism for the coaching could be countered with a "yes, but they did win it back in 2011." Unfortunately it's just a line item in a list of woulda coulda shouldas.

Fast forward to the 2016 season. Just imagine if Windham didn't throw that pick on the final drive, instead throws the winning TD pass. I know I would still be living off a title that year!

Of course think about how many late season meltdowns prevented at least a handful of other appearances in Detroit.

2) A few good wins under Solich, with Penn State being the gold standard. The win over Pitt ranks up there, too. It's been what, 6 and 13 years, respectively since those victories were notched, however? If you want to develop a buzz on campus, this is where it happens. A win over UC would have been pretty big I think to the students who have any interest in sports as we have several who are connected to that university/city.

3) 3 and something. The bowl game record under Frank. Credit to him for making bowl appearances a regular thing for Ohio Football. But again a lot of no shows and near misses-again. But you are all but assured a bowl game with a winning record in most cases these days. Not as exclusive/elusive as it once was. Better than not being included, for sure.

Overall, Ohio's performance on these three areas, for me, is OK-could be worse, but could also be a lot better. Even one MAC title would be huge, for me. In 14 or so years it has not happened so forgive me if my optimism is tempered based on past experiences.

Ohio-The State University

GoCats105
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RE: About those New Year's Six Bowl Aspirations...

Posted: 9/24/2018 12:46:57 PM

I'm asking myself these two questions this morning:

1. Right now, all things considered regarding funding, academics, facilities and coaching availability, what is Ohio's ceiling?

2. Is Ohio one of the toughest D1 jobs in the country?

Number One can be answered easier than the second. Northern Illinois, Toledo and Western Michigan have shown what you can be as a football program in the MAC. NIU and WMU went to lucrative bowl games. NIU and Toledo have proved you can have sustainable success for a number of years that are head and shoulders above the rest of the league. Ohio is on that cusp and is a consistent threat in the weaker East Division, but a league title and 10+ win regular reason have been unattainable for whatever reason (notice I said regular season).

I would say being NIU for 5-7 years is the ceiling. Making a run at an NY6 bowl and winning multiple MAC titles in a short time frame. Let's not get this confused thinking Ohio can ever be a Boise State or UCF. At least not right now in the present day of our Lord, 2018.

-------------

The more I think about Number Two, the more it might be true. Are there tougher jobs? Absolutely. But how many?

-Ohio is located in the poorest region of a state whose inhabitants bleed scarlet and grey for a school some 75 minutes give or take up the highway. Pulling a fanbase from that, when most of your living alumni don't live in the area, is a tough hill to climb to say the least.

-Ohio is located in a state that currently houses seven other FBS level programs, an FCS program which has won national titles (YSU) and a Division III powerhouse (Mount Union). Based off my cloudy memory, I'm going to go out on a limb and say Texas, California and maybe Florida are the only states that have that high a number of competition for fans and recruits. But I can't think of any other state which is dominated by ONE Power Five school...other than Wisconsin and Minnesota I guess?

-The surrounding states which also have FBS or FCS level programs, so really you're not fighting seven or eight. You're actually fighting 20+ in the immediate vicinity and definitely more given the state's fertile recruiting ground.

-Ohio spends the highest amount of any other MAC school (I think, or at least top 3) on basketball, a sport which they have had arguably better success (depending on what you believe) and more passionate fans (historically). We all know how hard it is to be good at both sports equally given the current landscape of college athletics at the Group of Five level.

-The academic community at Ohio which (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong) fights athletics tooth and nail on just about everything. I'm sure other schools have this problem as well, but it doesn't help that one of Ohio's own professors is quoted seemingly every time a national issue arises between athletic spending and academic integrity.

-Ohio has a so-so history of success. The past century or so has been a roller coaster. Peden and Hess had success, then decades of futility until Grobe and Solich brought it back from the dead. Solich is laying a foundation for the future (NFL draft picks, facility improvements, winning culture), hopefully which is kept up the way some fans see it and if someone else with a vision takes it to another level.

-An old stadium which needs constant improvements. The addition of Sook, new turf, new scoreboard and improvements to the Tower are nice, but how much longer can keep trying to make it look nice? We've all heard the gripes on the concessions/restrooms recently.

-A limited pool of high net worth boosters willing to make donations. This is not uncommon for any school. There is no T. Boone Pickens type of guy that is willing to go all-in for this program to take it to the next level. At least not yet. And that's what it would take. Other than that, there are only so many to go around and as Buckeye to Bobcat has mentioned, it's harder to keep going back to that well.

-I'm drawing blanks at the moment, feel free to add others if you want that adds to the difficulties this program faces.

Last Edited: 9/24/2018 12:48:26 PM by GoCats105

bshot44
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RE: About those New Year's Six Bowl Aspirations...

Posted: 9/24/2018 1:43:57 PM

GoCats105 wrote:

I think you absolutely hit the nail on the head with number one. Everything is dead on. What Toledo and NIU have built and what WMU was before Fleck bailed ship is what Ohio can and should be considering they are the only school in the league that has a coaching staff that has ZERO interest in ever leaving and has proven so over the course of the last 14 years.

Again ... as I've said. No coach in MAC history has been at a school as long as Frank has been at Ohio and NOT won at least one MAC title.

I don't think what you laid out is at all unattainable.

Agree that Ohio will NOT become the Boise of the East. Just not going to happen. But I'd be ecstatic if Ohio became the NIU of the East Division.

Ohio hasn't ever won back-to-back division titles in what is arguably the worst division in FBS football.

GoCats105
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RE: About those New Year's Six Bowl Aspirations...

Posted: 9/24/2018 4:18:24 PM

bshot44 wrote:

I agree and think it's not unattainable either. I think the question then is what does it take to get to that level? It's not like it's so far you can't see it. Ohio has been SO close. Painfully close a few times. Maybe a few tweaks here and there, a few extra dollars and some good old fashioned luck.

I think the best chance they had at back-to-back division titles, a MAC title, and arguably the best chance to do significant things was 2009-2013.

2009 - Won the MAC East, could have played better in the MAC title and bowl games to win, but overall great season coming off the 2008 (4-8) step back.

2010 - Started out 1-3 then went on an absolute tear with seven straight wins. What happens? Ohio blows it in the finale against Kent State, 28-6. That team finished 5-7. All they had to do was win that game and they had the tiebreaker by blasting Miami in Oxford earlier that year. They then get slaughtered in the bowl by Troy.

2011 - MAC title loss to NIU that they should have won. Ended the year on a high note getting the first ever bowl win for the program and momentum built for next season.

2012 - Start out on fire, beating Penn State and going 7-0 to get to #23 in the country. Sports Illustrated article comes out and Ohio wets the bed against Miami, a team which finished 4-8. Injuries and three straight MAC losses crush the season. Finished the year with another bowl win though.

2013 - Lots to be excited about going into the year, even after getting blown out by a really good Louisville team in the opener. TT was back at QB and the defense was led by Johnson and Carrie. Won four straight then lost to 6-6 CMU at home. Bounced back, but then the debacle happened. Three blowout losses, combined score 123-16.

Just too many missed opportunities, like last Saturday at Cincinnati.

Last Edited: 9/24/2018 4:22:47 PM by GoCats105

bshot44
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RE: About those New Year's Six Bowl Aspirations...

Posted: 9/24/2018 5:03:44 PM

GoCats105 wrote:

bshot44 wrote:

I think you pointed out the obvious right there.

The missed opportunities. So many inexplicable losses .... self-inflicted setbacks.

I don't think there's a need for any more money to get to the level of being the king of the MAC East. Ohio has blown two golden opportunities to win East division with late game losses in 2010 & 2016. Beat Kent and Akron and that's six divison titles in 9 years. Don't unravel in 2012 and maybe it's 7 in 9 years (although Kent was a juggernaut that year going 8-0 ... which by the way, Ohio has never done)

So you're right. They are thisCLOSE to being the dominant team in the East. And if you throw in a few other MAC title game chances, maybe they stumble into winning one.

But again ... they find a way to just bungle it up enough to remain thisCLOSE.

To me .... the obvious consistent factor is the coaching staff. Roster has not been the same since 2009 (obviously) but majority of the staff as ... especially the highest levels of it.

I just don't know if they are able to get this program to that level. They've taken Ohio from irrelevant to relevant ... but I don't think it will make another leap. I have 14 years of data that screams to me this is as good as it will get with this regime.

It's by no means fireable! Again ... re-read that. But I think we're in a unique position where you just have to ride it out and hope whoever is next in line can take that next step.

Going to be tough ... new university prez isn't a sports guy like Roderick ... so $750k for a coach is doubtful.

Truth is we might see a fall before a rise?

But I'm not holding my breath that this current staff will suddenly bring this program to MAC East domination after missing out for 14 years.

Cats2014
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RE: About those New Year's Six Bowl Aspirations...

Posted: 9/26/2018 12:20:35 PM

GoCats105 wrote:

Last Edited: 9/26/2018 12:22:42 PM by Cats2014

Day Tripper
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RE: About those New Year's Six Bowl Aspirations...

Posted: 9/26/2018 12:42:03 PM

A state of the art stadium with a dome would catapult the program to the forefront of the MAC in terms of recruiting. Leave the Sook attached right where it is, of course. But if you want to think about the future, if you want students to come to games and not leave when it is too cold or too hot...if you want everyone to come from surrounding areas and do it for EVERY game... BUILD IT. You could also get some major concert acts to Athens if you had a bowl. The Browns realize they were lame not to build a dome. Do it in Athens and become the dream of the MAC and all mid major colleges. For those of you who say I'm crazy... keep practicing status quo.

[/QUOTE]

The Convo was built 50 years ago with the same intentions. Basketball can not fill the upper bowl even with good teams. What major act has been billed at the Convo recently? Even in its hey day, the Convo only hosted major concerts once or twice a year. You could pick up students and fans in buses so they would not have to walk to the venue, you still would not get much more in attendance. Students will still leave at half time unless you provide a free open bar after the band is done playing.

SBH
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RE: About those New Year's Six Bowl Aspirations...

Posted: 9/26/2018 1:39:39 PM

[/QUOTE]

A state of the art stadium with a dome would catapult the program to the forefront of the MAC in terms of recruiting. Leave the Sook attached right where it is, of course. But if you want to think about the future, if you want students to come to games and not leave when it is too cold or too hot...if you want everyone to come from surrounding areas and do it for EVERY game... BUILD IT. You could also get some major concert acts to Athens if you had a bowl. The Browns realize they were lame not to build a dome. Do it in Athens and become the dream of the MAC and all mid major colleges. For those of you who say I'm crazy... keep practicing status quo.

[/QUOTE]

Just out of curiosity, what color is the sky in your world?

Last Edited: 9/26/2018 1:40:21 PM by SBH

mf279801
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RE: About those New Year's Six Bowl Aspirations...

Posted: 9/26/2018 2:19:44 PM

Cats2014 wrote:

GoCats105 wrote:

Idaho would probably entertain reasonable offers for the Kibbie dome haha

GoCats105
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RE: About those New Year's Six Bowl Aspirations...

Posted: 9/26/2018 2:44:14 PM

SBH wrote:

Cats2014 wrote:

Just out of curiosity, what color is the sky in your world?

Probably filled with some of that Meigs County Gold.

Last Edited: 9/26/2018 2:47:51 PM by GoCats105

OhioStunter
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RE: About those New Year's Six Bowl Aspirations...

Posted: 9/26/2018 3:12:37 PM

Cats2014 wrote:

A state of the art stadium with a catapult would be something. A dome for college football? If that was a more enjoyable experience for fans and better for recruiting, why hasn't it been done in college football?

GoCats105
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RE: About those New Year's Six Bowl Aspirations...

Posted: 9/26/2018 3:59:24 PM

OhioStunter wrote:

Cats2014 wrote:

It has. To varying degrees of success.

Carrier Dome - Syracuse
Kibbie Dome - Idaho
Fargo Dome - North Dakota State

GoCats105
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RE: About those New Year's Six Bowl Aspirations...

Posted: 9/26/2018 4:20:14 PM

Since I brought up NDSU, I wonder how serious the MAC would consider looking at them for expansion.

-Excellent fan support
-Dome stadium
-Great winning culture and history (14 national titles)
-Currently in the process of funding an indoor practice facility.

Looks like they probably fly to most of their away games already considering who is in the Missouri Valley for football.

Of course the flip side to that is, who else do you go out and get after that to keep the conference even? Youngstown State? Northern Iowa? Try to entice Marshall back (LOL yeah right)?

Problem would then be basketball. I doubt they would want to change leagues and the MAC doesn't want to get into another UMass/Temple situation where they only play football.

Last Edited: 9/26/2018 4:21:17 PM by GoCats105

OhioStunter
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RE: About those New Year's Six Bowl Aspirations...

Posted: 9/26/2018 5:19:00 PM

GoCats105 wrote:

OhioStunter wrote:

Cats2014 wrote:

It has. To varying degrees of success.

Carrier Dome - Syracuse
Kibbie Dome - Idaho
Fargo Dome - North Dakota State

Are any of these schools the dream of mid-major colleges?

Buckeye to Bobcat
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RE: About those New Year's Six Bowl Aspirations...

Posted: 9/26/2018 6:54:22 PM

OhioStunter wrote:

GoCats105 wrote:

OhioStunter wrote:

Cats2014 wrote:

It has. To varying degrees of success.

Carrier Dome - Syracuse
Kibbie Dome - Idaho
Fargo Dome - North Dakota State

Are any of these schools the dream of mid-major colleges?

North Dakota State is to me. And we could have had their university president as ours too who ACTUALLY emphasizes athletics, not add another bean counter to "help" solve our problems. But nope, we do what OU does best, sit on their hands and say that all is good even though the infrastructure is collapsing around them.

SBH
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RE: About those New Year's Six Bowl Aspirations...

Posted: 9/26/2018 8:15:37 PM

I guess I�ve been under the mistaken impression that the university is an academic, not athletic, enterprise.

Buckeye to Bobcat
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RE: About those New Year's Six Bowl Aspirations...

Posted: 9/26/2018 9:03:34 PM

SBH wrote:

I guess I�ve been under the mistaken impression that the university is an academic, not athletic, enterprise.

It's academic, but in terms of mitigating the costs of athletics, a good department can translate to advertising dollars and increase in enrollment.

At this point, might as well go thru with Ping's plan and de-emphasize athletics if that's how we're going to treat this. Go to D-3 and might as well go back to following that school in Columbus if this is the mentality we want to start having.

SBH
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RE: About those New Year's Six Bowl Aspirations...

Posted: 9/26/2018 9:23:04 PM

But you apparently were endorsing the hiring of NDSU�s prez solely on basis of athletics. NDSU�s academic ranking is far below ours. You really are a Buckeye, huh?

P.S...we spend 7mm more per year on ICA than your model school.

Last Edited: 9/26/2018 10:05:46 PM by SBH

bobcatsquared
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RE: About those New Year's Six Bowl Aspirations...

Posted: 9/26/2018 10:08:06 PM

Day Tripper wrote:

What major act has been billed at the Convo recently? Even in its hey day, the Convo only hosted major concerts once or twice a year

Fall quarter, 1979, my first quarter at Ohio, had 3 national acts playing the Convo. Someone from that era needs to help me out, but I think it included REO Speedwagon and Neil Young (maybe?). I thought this steady supply of concerts at the Convo would continue for my next 3-plus years in Athens. But the tragedy at a Who convert in Cincy that Dec. changed all that and big-time concerts at the Convo dried up seemingly overnight.

Last Edited: 9/26/2018 10:11:57 PM by bobcatsquared

SBH
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RE: About those New Year's Six Bowl Aspirations...

Posted: 9/26/2018 10:18:10 PM

Neil Young was Feb. �83.

Fall of �79 was Styx, as I recall. Perhaps also MSB.

Last Edited: 9/26/2018 10:41:55 PM by SBH

TWT
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RE: About those New Year's Six Bowl Aspirations...

Posted: 9/26/2018 10:36:51 PM

On the dome there is no proof that it would do anything for the program. Separation in G5 is mostly about getting a quality staff and dominating your recruiting rivals.

Last Edited: 9/26/2018 11:04:42 PM by TWT

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

Buckeye to Bobcat
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RE: About those New Year's Six Bowl Aspirations...

Posted: 9/26/2018 11:32:41 PM

SBH wrote:

And yet they win at the FCS level and have more FBS Power 5 wins than us in the last 10 years.....you tell me who's getting more for the money they spend.....go look it up I dare you and you tell me if we're getting our money's worth.....and oh yeah, they bring over 10K down for a postseason game, we're lucky to sell 1K so you tell me how good they are at supporting their teams.....

And what Uncle Wes said is spot on, get a coach who can recruit locally you're in the ballgame a heckuva lot quicker in the MAC.

Last Edited: 9/26/2018 11:42:56 PM by Buckeye to Bobcat

OhioStunter
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RE: About those New Year's Six Bowl Aspirations...

Posted: 9/27/2018 9:47:58 AM

Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:

OhioStunter wrote:

GoCats105 wrote:

OhioStunter wrote:

Cats2014 wrote:

It has. To varying degrees of success.

Carrier Dome - Syracuse
Kibbie Dome - Idaho
Fargo Dome - North Dakota State

Are any of these schools the dream of mid-major colleges?

North Dakota State is to me.

They are clearly the icon for what an FCS team should be, but in the world of FBS, I'm not sure you could realistically compare the success of North Dakota State with other FBS teams.

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