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Topic: Frank's replacement

Topic: Frank's replacement

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SBH
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
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Frank's replacement

Posted: 6/19/2018 11:48:40 AM

Bumping this from the recruiting page. In the announcement of one of our latest OL recruits, the kid's high school coach is quoted as saying Frank indicated he could name his successor today if necessary to close the deal. That tells me there is an understanding with the AD that one of our two assistant/associate head coaches is already on tap to step in.

I sure hope it's Burrow.

L.C.
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RE: Frank's replacement

Posted: 6/19/2018 1:03:40 PM

SBH wrote:

...I sure hope it's Burrow.

It most likely would be Burrow, since his official title is "Associate Head Coach/Defensive Coordinator/Safeties", while Albin's title is lower, "Assistant Head Coach/Co-Offensive Coordinator/Pass Game Coordinator/ Running Backs". Interestingly, in 2015 and 2016, Isphording was the Co-offensive coordinator and Passing game coordinator, and then in 2017, Dave Johnson became the co-offensive coordinator and run game coordinator. For 2018, there does not appear to be anyone else who is the co-offensive coordinator with Albin, and no run game coordinator. I wonder how the loss of Johnson will impact the running game and overall offense?

Getting back to the main topic, when it comes to succession, one never knows. When Osborne retired, the expectation was that he would be followed by Solich, and that happened. On the other hand, when the prior coach, Devaney, retired, the expectation was that he would be succeeded either by Warren Powers, or by Monte Kiffin. Powers went on to be 57-37-3 (.706) as a head coach at Washington State and Missouri. Kiffin was 16-17 at NC State before deciding that his future lay as a defensive coordinator. Osborne was a surprise pick but turned out to be a pretty good head coach.

When it comes to Frank's successor, I don't hope for a particular person. I just hope whoever is chosen turns out to be a great choice. I do think that Burrow is the obvious choice, but one never knows.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

GoCats105
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RE: Frank's replacement

Posted: 6/19/2018 1:57:20 PM

I usually loathe hiring from within unless the successor is a wanted and sought after commodity. Are Burrow or Albin those guys? Who knows.

Keeping the continuity with the players in the locker room is great until things go South.

ytownbobcat
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RE: Frank's replacement

Posted: 6/19/2018 2:15:12 PM

Our AD usually undergoes a national search when a coaching vacancy occurs. My expectation is that he will do the same for Frank's replacement when Frank retires.
I would be surprised if Frank's successor is someone presently on staff. I concur that we have a great staff and capable coaches.

SBH
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RE: Frank's replacement

Posted: 6/19/2018 2:34:05 PM

ytownbobcat wrote:

If this is true, then Frank is misleading recruits...which I doubt very much.

Buckeye to Bobcat
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RE: Frank's replacement

Posted: 6/19/2018 2:42:32 PM

Ugh.....are you kidding me?

I would like to get an up and comer like Tom Arth at UT Chattanooga. But alas, this will be a keep in neutral/reverse move.

ytownbobcat
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RE: Frank's replacement

Posted: 6/19/2018 8:42:27 PM

I think the elaborate titles for Burrow and Albin are partially to structure competitive salaries. Both have good experience and have had success and probably could do better financially elsewhere.
If neither are considered for our HC position they have solid credentials they can leverage for a future job.
It is hard to fathom that Frank has the power to name his successor. Perhaps a misunderstanding by the Canton Hoover coach?

Kevin Finnegan
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RE: Frank's replacement

Posted: 6/19/2018 9:29:09 PM

I think Arkley should ask. Simple question.

RSBobcat
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Location: Columbus, OH
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RE: Frank's replacement

Posted: 6/19/2018 9:51:36 PM

finnOhio wrote:

I think Arkley should ask. Simple question.

And you would expect a "simple/clear" answer at this point? From Frank? From Schaus?

RS Bobcat

.
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RE: Frank's replacement

Posted: 6/20/2018 5:07:19 PM

Things can change really quickly. A lot of schools have understandings on succession that get changed or are not honored when the time comes to pull the trigger. People in power change positions. Conditions change.

What if Ohio wins the final 28 games of Frank's career and the program can land a big-name coach on the rebound, another Solich type who could take the program to new heights at a discount?

What if Ohio's defense gives up 40 points per game for the next two seasons? Are they really going to give the coordinator the head coaching job at that point?

It could also be a sales trick to recruits to get them to sign on the dotted line. (A college football coach would NEVER do that!)

So many variables.

L.C.
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RE: Frank's replacement

Posted: 6/20/2018 5:32:43 PM

Brian Smith wrote:

Things can change really quickly....
...
What if Ohio wins the final 28 games of Frank's career and the program can land a big-name coach on the rebound, another Solich type who could take the program to new heights at a discount?
...

I agree that things can change. I disagree with one thing in your post, though. If Ohio were to win 28 games in a row, I think it is almost impossible that the AD, any AD, wouldn't try to keep as much of the staff intact as possible. Firing the entire coaching staff at that point would be an extraordinary risk for an AD. If they were to keep the staff intact, and bad things were to happen, they would survive because it would have been an understandable risk, but if an AD were to get rid of a staff that had won 28 in a row, and things went badly, the AD would be the fist one out the door.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Bobcatzblitz
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RE: Frank's replacement

Posted: 6/20/2018 8:34:13 PM

I would keep it in the Solich coaching tree for now why fix it if it aint broke? Burrow would be a continuation of that. These coaches have a DECADE in and if Frank is anything he is LOYAL. Do a National search hoping for pretty hire could set this program back to were it was quicker than it took to build.

Buckeye to Bobcat
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RE: Frank's replacement

Posted: 6/20/2018 9:58:25 PM

Bobcatzblitz wrote:

Or stay in the same family and stare at Brian Knorr 2.0....

L.C.
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RE: Frank's replacement

Posted: 6/21/2018 12:17:21 AM

Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:

Bobcatzblitz wrote:

Or stay in the same family and stare at Brian Knorr 2.0....

There is no guarantee it will work well, but Knorr is not an apt example. The reason is that when Grobe left, only Knorr stayed behind, and he had to build an entirely new staff. The one big advantage to hiring form within is continuity. In the case of Knorr, since the entire staff was replaced, there was no continuity. Thus, the Knorr hire was essentially like hiring someone from outside, rather than hiring for continuity.

I'm sure that if someone wants to dig around, they can find plenty of examples of cases where an assistant coach took over for a retiring coach, and retained the rest of the staff. Probably some turned out well, and some not so well. On average, I'd expect a slight reversion towards the mean.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

WishIWasAtLuckys
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RE: Frank's replacement

Posted: 6/21/2018 10:24:55 AM

I almost got beat up by Coach Burrow's family (over exaggerating) at the pep-rally in the Bahamas for being caught in this very discussion.

I would be all for him IF - we were consistently winning the MACC and operating at a much higher level.

I love Frank. I hope we have him for many more years but I do not think we are at a point in our program where a favorite son should get crowned, especially without a national coaching search.

Last Edited: 6/21/2018 12:36:11 PM by WishIWasAtLuckys

Maddog13
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RE: Frank's replacement

Posted: 6/21/2018 11:14:14 AM

I would argue that there is no replacement for Frank. The Solich hiring, minus the temporary bump in the road associated with the negative drinking publicity, immediately put Ohio Football on the map in terms of credibility and intrigue. Frank was one of those unique underdog type of college players that captured the imagination of many. I also believe that it is generally felt that he got robbed as the Head Coach at Nebraska. I am not sure that Ohio Football would be able to top the kind of notoriety and good vibes that Frank brought to the program and continues to bring to the program.

Sorry, but neither Albin nor Burrow bring much that is "sexy" or nationally exciting to this program. The one exception might be if Joe Burrow leads LSU to a National Championship and wins a Heisman Trophy. This could elevate his father by association; however, I wouldn't hold my breath in that regard. Therefore, I think that Ohio must bring in a similar type of situation as Frank; otherwise, I think this program will sink back into mediocrity. Unfortunately, Ohio continues to be hurt by the fact that it is stuck in the middle of nowhere. We just don't have the media market needed to get National attention without a larger than life coach.

L.C.
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RE: Frank's replacement

Posted: 6/21/2018 12:44:51 PM

Maddog13 wrote:

... Therefore, I think that Ohio must bring in a similar type of situation as Frank; otherwise, I think this program will sink back into mediocrity. Unfortunately, Ohio continues to be hurt by the fact that it is stuck in the middle of nowhere. We just don't have the media market needed to get National attention without a larger than life coach.

More than just not having a large media market, Ohio doesn't have a strong natural recruiting area. I'm convinced that the long term success of a program is generally determined more by it's natural recruiting areas than any other factor. That is why you always see teams like Ohio, Michigan, Penn State, Alabama, Florida, Texas, and USC at the top, and they can change coaches, and still end up near the top, and why other teams are often mired at the bottom.

I believe that teams may have increased success at times because of a specific coach, or increased lack of success because of a coach, but over the long term will drift back to a level of success related to the talent that is produced in their natural recruiting area. In Ohio's case, that means that, in the absence of other factors, the tendency would be for Ohio to drift back to the bottom of the conference, since SE Ohio produces far less talent than SW Ohio, NW Ohio, NE Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, or Illinois. One of the things that frustrated and confused me for a long time was how long it has taken for Ohio's recruiting to improve, but I've grown to understand that issue a bit more over the years.

For Ohio to have success, long term, the ideal would be to build on the idea that their natural recruiting area is the entire state, and not just SE Ohio. That has proven to be difficult, or impossible. When Miami and UC were down, Ohio was able to recruit SW Ohio fairly well, but now that Miami and UC are recruiting better, Ohio is relying a great deal on recruits from around the country. That isn't necessarily bad, but sustaining it is difficult. That, in turn, is a special risk in replacing the entire staff. The existing staff has been building connections to high schools in Western Pennsylvania, Georgia, and Florida. A new staff will have ties to other areas, but will have to start over. If Ohio had a strong natural recruiting area, there would be a lot less risk in replacing the whole staff.

I'm not saying that replacing the whole staff would necessarily take Ohio back to the bottom of the MAC, just that, if Ohio decides to do it, they better be looking for a replacement that is not only a good coach, but who has strong ties of his own to good recruiting areas. They need to be someone who can either continue to improve recruiting in other areas of the state, or who can recruit strongly on a nationwide area. Recruiting is always important, but especially so when a school is in an area that doesn't have a strong natural recruiting base.

Last Edited: 6/21/2018 12:48:14 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

GoCats105
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RE: Frank's replacement

Posted: 6/21/2018 1:20:18 PM

Maddog13 wrote:

But Frank has put Ohio on the map to make it a viable program, so that when he leaves the program will be in 1,000% better shape than we he arrived. A lot of programs at Ohio's level or below would kill to have what we have. Facility wise? Yeah Peden is old and dilapidated, but the IPF and Sook are important. But he's working with what he has and making it a sustainable program.

Really it depends on the priorities of the athletic department. Who do you want to be? We'll never compete at the major P5 level unless significant upgrades are made and a large booster or collection of boosters invests in the program. We're in too big of a disadvantage recruiting wise (Ohio is great but gets poached by every program in the Midwest). It would be nice to be in a big city, but power programs started the same way in small towns.

So what should Ohio strive for? They should strive to be the best team in the MAC, year after year. Frank has laid the groundwork for that. All it takes is a talented coach with a vision to build off what he provided. If he's worth his salt he'll be gone after a few years (Doeren, Fleck, Campbell, etc.), but it's not like it's that far fetched.

TWT
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RE: Frank's replacement

Posted: 6/22/2018 12:54:38 AM

L.C. wrote:

Maddog13 wrote:

The majority of Ohio students don't come from SE Ohio L.C. so why would it be difficult to attract kids from Columbus, Dayton or Cincinnati metros only 2 hours away? These days a direct 4 lane highway going from Athens to these cities. We aren't University of Texas El-Paso distant from the major recruiting centers of Ohio. Its more about facilities and now Ohio is a program that within this decade has a renovated locker room & weight room, new IPF and a new academic center. Athens feels more like a small city than what it did 20 years ago with all the new apartment buildings. It had a sleepy feel to it but now there is a lot more action. I can remember when as soon as you hit the Convo it felt like you were out beyond the city limits.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

Alan Swank
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RE: Frank's replacement

Posted: 6/22/2018 9:52:10 AM

Though 2 years old, page 18 of this document is interesting.

https://www.ohio.edu/instres/factbook.pdf

L.C.
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RE: Frank's replacement

Posted: 6/22/2018 10:19:25 AM

Uncle Wes wrote:

The majority of Ohio students don't come from SE Ohio L.C. so why would it be difficult to attract kids from Columbus, Dayton or Cincinnati metros only 2 hours away? ...

That was my thought originally, but Ohio as a state is heavily recruited. To move up and be the "best of the MAC", or to be "competitive with lower P5 programs" or to be "ranked in the Top 25", Ohio needs to have competitive athletes. Ohio State takes the best of the athletes in the state, and behind them, every other team in the Big Ten recruits Ohio, as well as the AAC, and some of the Big Twelve and ACC.

Ohio can, and does, land some of those kids. The problem is that they don't have a strong local recruiting base to add those kids to. If they had a strong local area from which they have the best chance of getting, say, ten athletes a year that are competitive, they would be in a lot stronger position. They do get some players from SE Ohio, just not as many as other MAC schools are able to draw from their own backyards. Names that come to mind are Pleasants, Edwards, Roback, Marhefka the Luerhman twins,etc. Contrast that with the names that Miami is able to draw from the Cincinnati area, or BG and Toledo pull out of Toledo, or Akron and Kent pull out of the Cleveland area. All those schools recruit areas like Dayton and Columbus. All recruit statewide. The difference is that some have a stronger local area than others, and I have concluded that that, more than anything, affects their long term winning record over the last hundred years.

The one advantage that Ohio has over the other MAC schools is that they, alone, bear the name of the State. With success, in time that could give them an ever-increasing ability to recruit statewide.

Last Edited: 6/22/2018 10:21:28 AM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

.
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RE: Frank's replacement

Posted: 6/22/2018 11:36:36 AM

Alan Swank wrote:

Though 2 years old, page 18 of this document is interesting.

https://www.ohio.edu/instres/factbook.pdf

Really interesting. Also I didn't know the exact breakdown of where students came from (Page 21). Really surprised how few Ohio gets from West Virginia. I assumed that number was higher.

ou79
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RE: Frank's replacement

Posted: 6/22/2018 11:43:54 AM

If you include the Upper Ohio Valley (Valley) in the reference to SE Ohio, then OUr current staff does a terrible job of recruiting. Even if the Valley is not included in the SE Ohio reference, the Valley should be considered as part of Ohio's "backyard", as the Ohio University Eastern Campus (St. Clairsville) sits in the middle of everything. All of the schools in the Valley play in the Ohio Valley Athletic Conference (O.V.A.C.) which features 5 divisions (A, AA, AAA, AAAA, AAAAA) in 2 States (Ohio & WVa) with 51 member schools ranging from Warren Local and Parkersburg South on the southern end to Beaver Local and East Liverpool in the north. The conference represents over 18,000 student athletes and championships are awarded in 18 sports. Included in the member schools are Steubenville, Whelling Park and Morgantown. I point out all of this because in the past few years the only 2 players on the team from OVAC schools were Marhefka (St. Clairsville) and Chukwu (Wheeling Linsly). Both were invited walk-ons. In the same time frame the Valley had kids receive scholarships to Michigan, WVU, Penn State, Pitt and a host of other D-I (FCS & FBS) schools including a number of MAC and AAC schools. I know for a fact that a lot of these kids never got any look from our staff. One in particular is now a starting lineman for WVU at 6'8" and 330 lbs. So the bottom line is the current staff either can not or will not recruit the Ohio Valley. Sorry L.C. but I am not impressed with our current staff's ability to recruit its own "backyard".

Last Edited: 6/22/2018 11:52:32 AM by ou79

Mike Johnson
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RE: Frank's replacement

Posted: 6/22/2018 12:10:46 PM

Brian Smith wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

Though 2 years old, page 18 of this document is interesting.

https://www.ohio.edu/instres/factbook.pdf

Really interesting. Also I didn't know the exact breakdown of where students came from (Page 21). Really surprised how few Ohio gets from West Virginia. I assumed that number was higher.

I wonder to what extent tuition at Ohio (and other Ohio state assisted schools) dissuades non-Ohioans from applying to our Ohio. It's been some years ago, but I remember a 2-page spread in TIME that showed the average tuition for state-assisted schools in all 50 states AND the per capita support from the states.

If I am recalling accurately, Ohio (the state) ranked second highest in average tuition and second lowest in per capita support from the state.

http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author

ExCat21
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RE: Frank's replacement

Posted: 6/22/2018 2:51:13 PM

My thoughts on future head coach:

Burrow 60% chance
Albin 40% chance

Burrow would make a great coach but to me (in my opinion) he is content with running the defense and stiffling opposing offenses. I could see Albin becoming coach and us getting an FCS or Nebraska-related OC. Just my opinion tho.

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