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Topic:  Bowl Participation

Topic:  Bowl Participation
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rpbobcat
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Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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  Message Not Read  Bowl Participation
   Posted: 12/30/2017 10:07:21 AM 
There was a lot of discussion on BA about players choosing not play in bowl games.

Last night, the announcers for the Cotton Bowl said Denzel Ward made a "business decision" not play in the bowl game.

I understand that, and the people on here have strong feelings whether its appropriate or not.

Thing is,he was on the sidelines,in his jersey.

Personally,I feel that,when you quit the team,you no longer have the right to act as if you're still a member.
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mf279801
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  Message Not Read  RE: Bowl Participation
   Posted: 12/30/2017 10:09:09 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
There was a lot of discussion on BA about players choosing not play in bowl games.

Last night, the announcers for the Cotton Bowl said Denzel Ward made a "business decision" not play in the bowl game.

I understand that, and the people on here have strong feelings whether its appropriate or not.

Thing is,he was on the sidelines,in his jersey.

Personally,I feel that,when you quit the team,you no longer have the right to act as if you're still a member.



His coaching staff obviously disagreed with you
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Mike Johnson
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Location: North Canton, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Bowl Participation
   Posted: 12/30/2017 10:47:22 AM 
mf279801 wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
There was a lot of discussion on BA about players choosing not play in bowl games.

Last night, the announcers for the Cotton Bowl said Denzel Ward made a "business decision" not play in the bowl game.

I understand that, and the people on here have strong feelings whether its appropriate or not.

Thing is,he was on the sidelines,in his jersey.

Personally,I feel that,when you quit the team,you no longer have the right to act as if you're still a member.



His coaching staff obviously disagreed with you


Could be that the coaching staff's permitting him on the sideline had less to do with warm feelings for Mr. Ward and his decision and more to do with projecting a message to future bluechip recruits. (Shame on me for harboring a measure of cynicism during the holidays.)

http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author

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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Bowl Participation
   Posted: 12/30/2017 10:51:59 AM 
Hmmm business decision some say. I have an idea let's all go to work after the New Year in our street cloths, not do any work and cheer on our fellow employees in the hopes we get a big pay day in another job, even though our fellow employees trained us for this job. Let's see this how that works out. My guess is if we are lucky we would be told to leave, some of us might be dragged out the door (or thrown through it) into the snowy street and told never to bring our pompous selves back again.

There's way too many college athletes applauding their fellow athletes that quit on them who sadly are living under the delusion that they too will make millions in the NFL. Most never even get a try out, or spend years eking out a living on a practice squad getting a beat down that would make Rudy's 1970s practices look like powder puff football. To quote John Lennon; "Strange days indeed!"

Last Edited: 12/30/2017 10:52:31 AM by cbus cat fan
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mf279801
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  Message Not Read  RE: Bowl Participation
   Posted: 12/30/2017 12:14:14 PM 
Mike Johnson wrote:


Could be that the coaching staff's permitting him on the sideline had less to do with warm feelings for Mr. Ward and his decision and more to do with projecting a message to future bluechip recruits. (Shame on me for harboring a measure of cynicism during the holidays.)


That could very well be. Regardless, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have been standing there (as a member of the official travel party and in his jersey no less) without the permission of the coaching staff.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Bowl Participation
   Posted: 12/30/2017 12:57:17 PM 
From what I've read online,he didn't tell the coaching staff he wasn't playing until just before kickoff.

But his Twitter announcement makes it sound like the decision was made a while ago,and that he had "countless" discussions with the coaching staff.

According to sbnation,the staff only knew he would decide on game day.

The Twitter announcement he sent out is,to me,nothing but self serving dribble,especially the parts about wanting to help out younger players and be around his teammates.

I wonder how Meyer would have reacted,if other players in a similar position,on hearing about Ward,said nah I'm not playing either.
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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Bowl Participation
   Posted: 12/30/2017 2:06:54 PM 
As usual, well said rpbobcat!
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Bowl Participation
   Posted: 12/30/2017 3:46:28 PM 
Whether he said he wasn't playing a week ago or before kick off, as a coach I would have told him to buy a ticket for a seat in the stands if he wanted to watch the game from inside the stadium.

As for deciding not to play, unless someone can convince me that there truly is some purpose in these other bowl games, I have a hard time faulting a kid for not wanting to put his economic future in danger.
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Ted Thompson
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Location: MAC Play
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  Message Not Read  RE: Bowl Participation
   Posted: 12/30/2017 8:40:33 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Whether he said he wasn't playing a week ago or before kick off, as a coach I would have told him to buy a ticket for a seat in the stands if he wanted to watch the game from inside the stadium.

As for deciding not to play, unless someone can convince me that there truly is some purpose in these other bowl games, I have a hard time faulting a kid for not wanting to put his economic future in danger.


What I'm waiting for is players to start calling it quits late in the season. Other than the CFP Bowls, are late season games with your team not playing for anything any more meaningful?

Follow Ohio Football recruiting on the BobcatAttack.com football recruiting database.

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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Bowl Participation
   Posted: 12/30/2017 9:11:18 PM 
When that happens the disgust level that has been so visibly demonstrated in falling NFL attendance and viewership will come to college football. This all goes back to my last post. Imagine if we did the same thing where we work? Now I know some will say, but these guys aren't paid. I bet millions of students with significant debt, often in the six figures, would have loved to have the scholarship perks that many of these athletes were given. Saquon Barkley is a class act, he said he couldn't imagine not playing. He certainly has a lot to lose, but thankfully he hasn't lost his ethics in the process.

Last Edited: 12/30/2017 9:12:16 PM by cbus cat fan
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Bowl Participation
   Posted: 12/30/2017 10:21:40 PM 
Just thought of something. Years ago when I played Fantasy Football, the last week of the year (tomorrow) was always a frustrating crap shoot because you never knew which teams that had already clinched playoff spots would rest/not play some of their key players. Was/is that any different than what is happening now at the college level with players sitting out these meaningless bowl games?
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UpSan Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Bowl Participation
   Posted: 12/30/2017 10:56:59 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Just thought of something. Years ago when I played Fantasy Football, the last week of the year (tomorrow) was always a frustrating crap shoot because you never knew which teams that had already clinched playoff spots would rest/not play some of their key players. Was/is that any different than what is happening now at the college level with players sitting out these meaningless bowl games?


It's quite a bit different. College players quit on their teams before the season is over. NFL guys sitting out of games are doing so because their coach decides its best they rest and stay healthy before the next game.
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ExCat21
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  Message Not Read  RE: Bowl Participation
   Posted: 12/31/2017 7:22:25 AM 
This isnt about ethics or comparing jobs to college kids. If someone has the ability to be a first round draft kid (Mel Kiper has him #1) and doesnt want to jeopardize his future....and the team is informed about it.....then there is no problem. Most of yall wont understand that though....because most of you dont come from poverty and have your families putting all their eggs in one basket on "you" to be the family provider. I suggest you read into the lives of these kids before judging them. Makes me sick to hear people say that a kid should play his last game when coaches bounce on kids for new jobs and get paid millions of dollars. Until you are in that situation and have your family depending on you....you have no room to say whether a kid should sit on the sidelines....after everything that kid did to build your program. And from the looks of the game....they didnt even need him. More experience for the next guy up. I guarantee the LB from Notre Dame (drafted in 2015) would change his mind and not play injuring his ACL and dropping from 1st to 3rd round. Do you know how much money he lost??

Last Edited: 12/31/2017 7:26:05 AM by ExCat21
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roger
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  Message Not Read  RE: Bowl Participation
   Posted: 12/31/2017 8:29:53 AM 
ExCat21 wrote:
This isnt about ethics or comparing jobs to college kids. If someone has the ability to be a first round draft kid (Mel Kiper has him #1) and doesnt want to jeopardize his future....and the team is informed about it.....then there is no problem. Most of yall wont understand that though....because most of you dont come from poverty and have your families putting all their eggs in one basket on "you" to be the family provider. I suggest you read into the lives of these kids before judging them. Makes me sick to hear people say that a kid should play his last game when coaches bounce on kids for new jobs and get paid millions of dollars. Until you are in that situation and have your family depending on you....you have no room to say whether a kid should sit on the sidelines....after everything that kid did to build your program. And from the looks of the game....they didnt even need him. More experience for the next guy up. I guarantee the LB from Notre Dame (drafted in 2015) would change his mind and not play injuring his ACL and dropping from 1st to 3rd round. Do you know how much money he lost??


Here’s what I don’t understand: you sign a contract (in this case a scholarship) that says you will play football for that school in return for a free education. If all of a sudden you choose not to play then you shouldn’t be any where near the team and disenrolled from the school. How about teaching them something more important in life, such as your word is your bond or if you violate a contract then there are consequences.
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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Bowl Participation
   Posted: 12/31/2017 8:36:58 AM 
Agree, Roger. Welcome back!
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roger
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  Message Not Read  RE: Bowl Participation
   Posted: 12/31/2017 8:40:37 AM 
Thanks Robert! Never left it’s just if I don’t think I can add anything to the conversation then I just read everyone else’s comments.
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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Bowl Participation
   Posted: 12/31/2017 9:33:01 AM 
ExCat 21 A couple of things: You said it makes you sick when people judge poor kids for not playing so they can make a big payday. First of all that assumes that all of the players come from impoverished backgrounds. Not true at all. Secondly, I would bet I came from less than money than 90% of college athletes today. I never quit on an employer without the customary two week notice in my life, never quit on my team, family, friends etc. I also paid back all of my student loans. I am sure there is a healthy majority of people that can say what I said in the last couple of sentences. It is sad that we are making excuses for those who don't believe that. You quit on your team in that fashion and everything else afterwards is something you can rationalize to quit on as well.

Let repeat what I said about Saquon Barkley, he's the class act that we should emulate. He said he couldn't imagine quitting on his team and not playing. Finally, you said the Notre Dame player who didn't quit on his team probably wishes he would change that decision. At the end of our days on this earth we won't be judged for how much money we accumulated, but the ethics for which we stood.

Last Edited: 12/31/2017 9:40:25 AM by cbus cat fan
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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Bowl Participation
   Posted: 12/31/2017 12:12:00 PM 
Wherever you fall in this argument, can we stop the working class hero bullshit comparisons? It's completely irrelevant. quitting on an employer to take another job is absolutely nothing like skipping a bowl game where you risk serious and permanent injury and could cost yourself millions of dollars. The most dangerous thing about most jobs is that you might slip on the ice on your way into the office. Or get carpal tunnel syndrome. Or eye strain. Or die of a heart attack from sitting on your ass all day. Or go to prison because you went on a three state killing spree because the office coffee sucks so bad.

...

Holy crap, my job is dangerous.
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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Bowl Participation
   Posted: 12/31/2017 1:54:42 PM 
Mr. Hooper

I know you don't like all of this working class hero talk. Things must be a little tense at the Oceanographic Institute since the Iranian protests flared up. Don't worry, I am sure the Iranian caviar will eventually get delivered.

Quint

Last Edited: 12/31/2017 2:02:15 PM by cbus cat fan
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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Bowl Participation
   Posted: 12/31/2017 3:06:27 PM 
We're going to need a bigger boat to hold all of this manure in the form of false analogies.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Bowl Participation
   Posted: 12/31/2017 6:37:37 PM 
Just to be clear.

The purpose of my post wasn't to address the issue of not playing in a bowl game.

That issue was argued in depth,before.

My problem was Denzel Ward,being allowed on the sidelines,and in his jersey.

Last Edited: 12/31/2017 6:38:28 PM by rpbobcat
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BryanHall
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  Message Not Read  RE: Bowl Participation
   Posted: 1/1/2018 8:54:23 AM 
ExCat21 wrote:
This isnt about ethics or comparing jobs to college kids. If someone has the ability to be a first round draft kid (Mel Kiper has him #1) and doesnt want to jeopardize his future....and the team is informed about it.....then there is no problem. Most of yall wont understand that though....because most of you dont come from poverty and have your families putting all their eggs in one basket on "you" to be the family provider. I suggest you read into the lives of these kids before judging them. Makes me sick to hear people say that a kid should play his last game when coaches bounce on kids for new jobs and get paid millions of dollars. Until you are in that situation and have your family depending on you....you have no room to say whether a kid should sit on the sidelines....after everything that kid did to build your program. And from the looks of the game....they didnt even need him. More experience for the next guy up. I guarantee the LB from Notre Dame (drafted in 2015) would change his mind and not play injuring his ACL and dropping from 1st to 3rd round. Do you know how much money he lost??


I think we all have the room to say whether someone you should play his last game. If it is a decision based on team vs. personal finances. Let each of them take grief over it. Each of these players is a public figure who will rely on public support for their income--part of that is the perception of being a team player. They are now making adult decisions--some of that involves taking adult criticism.

Dropping from 1st round to 3rd does not involve losing money--it involves not making as much money. That guy also received a $700K payout on a loss of value insurance policy to help defer the loss and he received a really nice contract anyway. Do I have some pity for him? Yes. Do I respect him more than the others? Yes. Does that matter to him? I don't know.

The poverty example--does this apply to Christian McCaffrey skipping a bowl game last year?

I think my opinion on all of this would have changed if Sam Darnold had decided
to skip the bowl game by saying "I'm not really that good at quarterback and I don't want the Browns to figure this out and draft me"
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ExCat21
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  Message Not Read  RE: Bowl Participation
   Posted: 1/2/2018 10:21:13 AM 
The poverty example doesnt apply to Christian (obviously his dad was a baller) but you get what I mean. Majority of the top picks in the first round come from areas other than gated neighborhoods and great homes. And you are correct, they are making adult decisions that involves protecting their futures. Everyone has their opinion and I respect your beliefs.....just coming from a former athlete that I have no problem with another teammate looking out for their future. And no problem with them being on the sideline to provide valuable pointers for the game, although they are not playing.I respect Barkley for playing but I wouldnt be mad or "have disgrace" for the player if they chose not too. Those players also didnt play because a National Championship was on the line. Pointless bowl games for Power 5 teams will encourage more in the future to sit. Maybe if they expand the playoffs to 8....less popular players will sit. Another reason to expand

Last Edited: 1/2/2018 10:22:35 AM by ExCat21
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Bowl Participation
   Posted: 1/2/2018 11:16:21 AM 
ExCat21 wrote:
The poverty example doesnt apply to Christian (obviously his dad was a baller) but you get what I mean. Majority of the top picks in the first round come from areas other than gated neighborhoods and great homes. And you are correct, they are making adult decisions that involves protecting their futures. Everyone has their opinion and I respect your beliefs.....just coming from a former athlete that I have no problem with another teammate looking out for their future. And no problem with them being on the sideline to provide valuable pointers for the game, although they are not playing.I respect Barkley for playing but I wouldnt be mad or "have disgrace" for the player if they chose not too. Those players also didnt play because a National Championship was on the line. Pointless bowl games for Power 5 teams will encourage more in the future to sit. Maybe if they expand the playoffs to 8....less popular players will sit. Another reason to expand


I find it funny that his attitude would change if the National Championship was one the line. Just get rid of the bowl games then.

Last Edited: 1/2/2018 11:17:26 AM by GoCats105
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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: Bowl Participation
   Posted: 1/2/2018 12:06:39 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:
ExCat21 wrote:
The poverty example doesnt apply to Christian (obviously his dad was a baller) but you get what I mean. Majority of the top picks in the first round come from areas other than gated neighborhoods and great homes. And you are correct, they are making adult decisions that involves protecting their futures. Everyone has their opinion and I respect your beliefs.....just coming from a former athlete that I have no problem with another teammate looking out for their future. And no problem with them being on the sideline to provide valuable pointers for the game, although they are not playing.I respect Barkley for playing but I wouldnt be mad or "have disgrace" for the player if they chose not too. Those players also didnt play because a National Championship was on the line. Pointless bowl games for Power 5 teams will encourage more in the future to sit. Maybe if they expand the playoffs to 8....less popular players will sit. Another reason to expand


I find it funny that his attitude would change if the National Championship was one the line. Just get rid of the bowl games then.


Opting out of anything other than the championship would be ok if I was a teammate of a player who decided not to play. I would just want to know in a reasonable amount of time o that we could get their replacement ready. Denzel Ward is a special case, his dad was a principal that ran marathon's and died suddenly in a spin class, he has a street named after him. Denzel Ward's family was not poor, he grew up in Nordonia. His dad meant a lot to him and I know that he realizes that life is short, so his fight or flight responses may be a lot different than most of ours. The Jake Butt injury will serve as the turning point, more prospects will skip bowl games because it is the sensible thing to do. The average NFL career is 4 years because football life is short. The NCAA should provide insurance for the players with some of the profits that they make from the bowl games and jersey sales.
http://www.wkyc.com/article/news/local/praise-for-bedford...

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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