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Topic:  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it

Topic:  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/12/2022 6:27:24 AM 
L.C. wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Ohio69 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Can you explain why it's justified to pay football coaches more at a school that operates its football program at a loss?


Because it’s not a loss. It’s for student, alum, community, customer etc. engagement and PR. At many schools it’s like 2% -3% of overall budget and school leaders and alums/donors/students/ communities don’t mind dedicating funding to it. Folks have been predicting the end of the NCAA and college sports for years and years now. It’s gonna keep surviving because the universities (leaders, students, alums, donors, community) want it to.



This isn't quite an answer. It's a sentiment, and one I understand and agree with for the most part. But to be more specific about what I'm asking: why is it necessary to spend $600k on a football coach to accomplish all of the above instead of, say, $350k?

Given the level we compete at in the MAC, I'm not sure I see the justification of increasing salaries over the last 10 years.

I'm just curious, but why do you favor the kids being paid what they are "worth", i.e., what the market will pay, but oppose paying coaches what they are "worth"?



With players, people are trying to legislate away their ability to get paid at all. Nowhere am I suggesting legislating coaching pay, or limiting the market in any way. I'm just asking someone to explain where 600k in value comes from at OU. I hire people all the time. Offering them 75k because that's how I value the contribution I'm asking them to make doesn't make me anti-free market because I'm not offering them 150k. It is, in fact, me establishing the demand side of the market.

You're suggesting there's hypocrisy in my stance, and I don't think there is. I think there's far more in pointing to the efficacy of the free market in coaching salaries while complaining about the NIL hurting competitive balance and trying to get rid of it. In one scenario people are trying to completely eliminate a market. I assure you that group are not the ones in favor of a free market here.

Last Edited: 1/12/2022 7:46:41 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/12/2022 6:32:18 AM 
Club Hyatt wrote:


He wants FCS but what he doesn't understand is that Ohio would be one of the biggest programs for that subdivision and still be paying a half a million for a football coach. The only difference is it would be millions less revenue than competing in an FBS conference. The current situation for Ohio is as good as it gets for a mid major program.

The question I think is what to do about keeping Jeff Boals. Groce was offered $750k to stay in Athens back in 2012 so I could see a bigger salary coming for Boals eventually. He's worth the coin when you see where he's taking the program.


I suggested that OU could pay a coach 350k. It was a wild guess. It also happens to be the exact salary JMU paid their coach in the first year of his contract.

Since, he's been paid more, because he's earned it. You're suggesting that OU would, by necessity, need to pay a coach as much or more than anybody else? Why?
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TWT
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/12/2022 4:51:33 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Club Hyatt wrote:


He wants FCS but what he doesn't understand is that Ohio would be one of the biggest programs for that subdivision and still be paying a half a million for a football coach. The only difference is it would be millions less revenue than competing in an FBS conference. The current situation for Ohio is as good as it gets for a mid major program.

The question I think is what to do about keeping Jeff Boals. Groce was offered $750k to stay in Athens back in 2012 so I could see a bigger salary coming for Boals eventually. He's worth the coin when you see where he's taking the program.


I suggested that OU could pay a coach 350k. It was a wild guess. It also happens to be the exact salary JMU paid their coach in the first year of his contract.

Since, he's been paid more, because he's earned it. You're suggesting that OU would, by necessity, need to pay a coach as much or more than anybody else? Why?


I'm saying Albin is market rate for a MAC coach and there is not much to more to skim off his salary. The large FCS programs are paying 400k. There is no move down to recoup revenue argument to be had.

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/12/2022 8:07:54 PM 
Club Hyatt wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Club Hyatt wrote:


He wants FCS but what he doesn't understand is that Ohio would be one of the biggest programs for that subdivision and still be paying a half a million for a football coach. The only difference is it would be millions less revenue than competing in an FBS conference. The current situation for Ohio is as good as it gets for a mid major program.

The question I think is what to do about keeping Jeff Boals. Groce was offered $750k to stay in Athens back in 2012 so I could see a bigger salary coming for Boals eventually. He's worth the coin when you see where he's taking the program.


I suggested that OU could pay a coach 350k. It was a wild guess. It also happens to be the exact salary JMU paid their coach in the first year of his contract.

Since, he's been paid more, because he's earned it. You're suggesting that OU would, by necessity, need to pay a coach as much or more than anybody else? Why?


I'm saying Albin is market rate for a MAC coach and there is not much to more to skim off his salary. The large FCS programs are paying 400k. There is no move down to recoup revenue argument to be had.


Yeah, I'm asking why that's the market rate for a MAC coach. I don't understand it, and the market for MAC coaches seems to be a pretty irrational market.

When you google MAC Football Coaching salaries, the first thing that comes up is a list from -- I think -- 2007. It's interesting to see.

At that point, the two highest comp'd coaches were Solich and Al Golden, making 400k and 575k respectively. Doug Martin and Mike Hayward at Kent and Miami made 170k and 200k as the two lowest paid coaches in the league. The average salary was just 301k.

By 2019, the average salary is 579k. There's a coach making over 2x what Golden made in 2007, and a few making 800k.

Did the economics of MAC football really change that drastically in 12 years? What am I missing that caused the average salary to nearly 2X?

As for whether we're paying "market rate", I guess we are if you define the market as the MAC. But it seems like there are a whole lot of capable football coaches out there who make a whole lot less. When Maine won the CAA a few years ago, their coach was making 153k. I'm not convinced OU would win the CAA. You're telling me we -- and the rest of the MAC -- couldn't recruit away good FCS coaches for 350k? It seems like the conference so until a few years ago. I don't think I understand what we gain by defining the market so narrowly.

Last Edited: 1/12/2022 8:11:51 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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TWT
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/12/2022 8:28:55 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Club Hyatt wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Club Hyatt wrote:


He wants FCS but what he doesn't understand is that Ohio would be one of the biggest programs for that subdivision and still be paying a half a million for a football coach. The only difference is it would be millions less revenue than competing in an FBS conference. The current situation for Ohio is as good as it gets for a mid major program.

The question I think is what to do about keeping Jeff Boals. Groce was offered $750k to stay in Athens back in 2012 so I could see a bigger salary coming for Boals eventually. He's worth the coin when you see where he's taking the program.


I suggested that OU could pay a coach 350k. It was a wild guess. It also happens to be the exact salary JMU paid their coach in the first year of his contract.

Since, he's been paid more, because he's earned it. You're suggesting that OU would, by necessity, need to pay a coach as much or more than anybody else? Why?


I'm saying Albin is market rate for a MAC coach and there is not much to more to skim off his salary. The large FCS programs are paying 400k. There is no move down to recoup revenue argument to be had.


Yeah, I'm asking why that's the market rate for a MAC coach. I don't understand it, and the market for MAC coaches seems to be a pretty irrational market.

When you google MAC Football Coaching salaries, the first thing that comes up is a list from -- I think -- 2007. It's interesting to see.

At that point, the two highest comp'd coaches were Solich and Al Golden, making 400k and 575k respectively. Doug Martin and Mike Hayward at Kent and Miami made 170k and 200k as the two lowest paid coaches in the league. The average salary was just 301k.

By 2019, the average salary is 579k. There's a coach making over 2x what Golden made in 2007, and a few making 800k.

Did the economics of MAC football really change that drastically in 12 years? What am I missing that caused the average salary to nearly 2X?

As for whether we're paying "market rate", I guess we are if you define the market as the MAC. But it seems like there are a whole lot of capable football coaches out there who make a whole lot less. When Maine won the CAA a few years ago, their coach was making 153k. I'm not convinced OU would win the CAA. You're telling me we -- and the rest of the MAC -- couldn't recruit away good FCS coaches for 350k? It seems like the conference so until a few years ago. I don't think I understand what we gain by defining the market so narrowly.


The MAC can do it for 500k. Its an FBS conference and a step up from CAA football. Compare the facilities in the MAC to the CAA. Compare the schedules in the MAC to the CAA. Does Maine have West Virginia coming to town?

If Ohio was in FCS it wouldn't be a Maine, it would be a JMU type program with one of the biggest stadiums in FCS and a Top 5 recruiting state. It would benchmark against the top of the subdivision not the bottom. Idaho moved down to FCS and their coach is making 446k.

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2021/nov/18/report-idah... /

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/12/2022 9:02:44 PM 
Club Hyatt wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Club Hyatt wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Club Hyatt wrote:


He wants FCS but what he doesn't understand is that Ohio would be one of the biggest programs for that subdivision and still be paying a half a million for a football coach. The only difference is it would be millions less revenue than competing in an FBS conference. The current situation for Ohio is as good as it gets for a mid major program.

The question I think is what to do about keeping Jeff Boals. Groce was offered $750k to stay in Athens back in 2012 so I could see a bigger salary coming for Boals eventually. He's worth the coin when you see where he's taking the program.


I suggested that OU could pay a coach 350k. It was a wild guess. It also happens to be the exact salary JMU paid their coach in the first year of his contract.

Since, he's been paid more, because he's earned it. You're suggesting that OU would, by necessity, need to pay a coach as much or more than anybody else? Why?


I'm saying Albin is market rate for a MAC coach and there is not much to more to skim off his salary. The large FCS programs are paying 400k. There is no move down to recoup revenue argument to be had.


Yeah, I'm asking why that's the market rate for a MAC coach. I don't understand it, and the market for MAC coaches seems to be a pretty irrational market.

When you google MAC Football Coaching salaries, the first thing that comes up is a list from -- I think -- 2007. It's interesting to see.

At that point, the two highest comp'd coaches were Solich and Al Golden, making 400k and 575k respectively. Doug Martin and Mike Hayward at Kent and Miami made 170k and 200k as the two lowest paid coaches in the league. The average salary was just 301k.

By 2019, the average salary is 579k. There's a coach making over 2x what Golden made in 2007, and a few making 800k.

Did the economics of MAC football really change that drastically in 12 years? What am I missing that caused the average salary to nearly 2X?

As for whether we're paying "market rate", I guess we are if you define the market as the MAC. But it seems like there are a whole lot of capable football coaches out there who make a whole lot less. When Maine won the CAA a few years ago, their coach was making 153k. I'm not convinced OU would win the CAA. You're telling me we -- and the rest of the MAC -- couldn't recruit away good FCS coaches for 350k? It seems like the conference so until a few years ago. I don't think I understand what we gain by defining the market so narrowly.


The MAC can do it for 500k. Its an FBS conference and a step up from CAA football. Compare the facilities in the MAC to the CAA. Compare the schedules in the MAC to the CAA. Does Maine have West Virginia coming to town?

If Ohio was in FCS it wouldn't be a Maine, it would be a JMU type program with one of the biggest stadiums in FCS and a Top 5 recruiting state. It would benchmark against the top of the subdivision not the bottom. Idaho moved down to FCS and their coach is making 446k.

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2021/nov/18/report-idah... /


I'm not being clear about my point, I think. It's not that Ohio would be Maine were we an FBS school, or about whether or not MAC schools can technically afford to pay an average salary of 500k. I get they can. They're doing it.

The question I'm asking is why we do so, and why the market rate for MAC coaches has 2x'd in a decade and why it's necessary in a world where there are good coaches we could recruit making 150k at a level just below us. I'm struggling to see how 2x'ing football coaching salaries has been a good investment for the league.
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TWT
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/12/2022 9:16:42 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Club Hyatt wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Club Hyatt wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Club Hyatt wrote:


He wants FCS but what he doesn't understand is that Ohio would be one of the biggest programs for that subdivision and still be paying a half a million for a football coach. The only difference is it would be millions less revenue than competing in an FBS conference. The current situation for Ohio is as good as it gets for a mid major program.

The question I think is what to do about keeping Jeff Boals. Groce was offered $750k to stay in Athens back in 2012 so I could see a bigger salary coming for Boals eventually. He's worth the coin when you see where he's taking the program.


I suggested that OU could pay a coach 350k. It was a wild guess. It also happens to be the exact salary JMU paid their coach in the first year of his contract.

Since, he's been paid more, because he's earned it. You're suggesting that OU would, by necessity, need to pay a coach as much or more than anybody else? Why?


I'm saying Albin is market rate for a MAC coach and there is not much to more to skim off his salary. The large FCS programs are paying 400k. There is no move down to recoup revenue argument to be had.


Yeah, I'm asking why that's the market rate for a MAC coach. I don't understand it, and the market for MAC coaches seems to be a pretty irrational market.

When you google MAC Football Coaching salaries, the first thing that comes up is a list from -- I think -- 2007. It's interesting to see.

At that point, the two highest comp'd coaches were Solich and Al Golden, making 400k and 575k respectively. Doug Martin and Mike Hayward at Kent and Miami made 170k and 200k as the two lowest paid coaches in the league. The average salary was just 301k.

By 2019, the average salary is 579k. There's a coach making over 2x what Golden made in 2007, and a few making 800k.

Did the economics of MAC football really change that drastically in 12 years? What am I missing that caused the average salary to nearly 2X?

As for whether we're paying "market rate", I guess we are if you define the market as the MAC. But it seems like there are a whole lot of capable football coaches out there who make a whole lot less. When Maine won the CAA a few years ago, their coach was making 153k. I'm not convinced OU would win the CAA. You're telling me we -- and the rest of the MAC -- couldn't recruit away good FCS coaches for 350k? It seems like the conference so until a few years ago. I don't think I understand what we gain by defining the market so narrowly.


The MAC can do it for 500k. Its an FBS conference and a step up from CAA football. Compare the facilities in the MAC to the CAA. Compare the schedules in the MAC to the CAA. Does Maine have West Virginia coming to town?

If Ohio was in FCS it wouldn't be a Maine, it would be a JMU type program with one of the biggest stadiums in FCS and a Top 5 recruiting state. It would benchmark against the top of the subdivision not the bottom. Idaho moved down to FCS and their coach is making 446k.

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2021/nov/18/report-idah... /


I'm not being clear about my point, I think. It's not that Ohio would be Maine were we an FBS school, or about whether or not MAC schools can technically afford to pay an average salary of 500k. I get they can. They're doing it.

The question I'm asking is why we do so, and why the market rate for MAC coaches has 2x'd in a decade and why it's necessary in a world where there are good coaches we could recruit making 150k at a level just below us. I'm struggling to see how 2x'ing football coaching salaries has been a good investment for the league.


It allows you to bring in a quality FCS coach as EMU did with Creighton.

Something like that would be fine for Ohio post Albin.

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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/12/2022 9:19:42 PM 
Wait for it . . .

. . . "c'mon Club Hyatt, you're not answering my question."
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/12/2022 9:44:52 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
I'm not being clear about my point, I think. It's not that Ohio would be Maine were we an FBS school, or about whether or not MAC schools can technically afford to pay an average salary of 500k. I get they can. They're doing it.

The question I'm asking is why we do so, and why the market rate for MAC coaches has 2x'd in a decade and why it's necessary in a world where there are good coaches we could recruit making 150k at a level just below us. I'm struggling to see how 2x'ing football coaching salaries has been a good investment for the league.

I will give you a direct answer. When I hire someone, I know what the market is, and what I will have to offer to get the quality of person that I need. MAC salaries are no different, and they have doubled because they move in the free market, and the schools have bid up the price that must necessarily be paid to get the quality of coach they want. In case you hadn't noticed, salaries for coaches have gone up at all levels, not just in the MAC.

What is a coach "worth"? How do you determine that? That's for the free market to decide, and I won't even venture a guess. I admit that I'm half tempted to post a poll, though, and ask this: "If some high school coach from near Athens, with no college coaching experience whatsoever, could be hired for $250,000, would the fans support such a hire in order to save money."

Last Edited: 1/12/2022 9:46:22 PM by L.C.

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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/13/2022 9:31:36 AM 
It is unbelievable. I can’t believe any MAC program is making money. Just tune into any MACtion game on ESPN. You can count the attendance on one hand. I think it stems from a belief that “ if we pay our coach more money, we’ll elevate the program”. Nope.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/13/2022 10:51:57 AM 
L.C. wrote:

I will give you a direct answer. When I hire someone, I know what the market is, and what I will have to offer to get the quality of person that I need. MAC salaries are no different, and they have doubled because they move in the free market, and the schools have bid up the price that must necessarily be paid to get the quality of coach they want. In case you hadn't noticed, salaries for coaches have gone up at all levels, not just in the MAC.


It just feels pretty arbitrary to me to define the market so narrowly and base it entirely on pay at the 11 other schools in the conference. That Toledo thinks 45-27 with a single conference championship in 7 seasons is worth 1 million a year doesn't strike me as a particularly good reason to increase our pay.

L.C. wrote:

What is a coach "worth"? How do you determine that? That's for the free market to decide, and I won't even venture a guess.


L.C. wrote:

I admit that I'm half tempted to post a poll, though, and ask this: "If some high school coach from near Athens, with no college coaching experience whatsoever, could be hired for $250,000, would the fans support such a hire in order to save money."


Are you suggesting there are no metrics that can be used to determine the (very often) highest paid (or second highest paid, maybe) employee brings to a University? If so, I'm doubling down on my stance that coaching salaries are a completely irrational market.

In theory, sports are a loss leader at most schools that increase alumni engagement, which leads to alumni donations. That seems like a pretty clear metric one can use to measure a coaches worth, and you should see a pretty clear correlation between wins and losses and alumni giving. I'd be surprised if that's not the case. I don't think it's an impossible task to value the worth of a football coach.

L.C. wrote:

I admit that I'm half tempted to post a poll, though, and ask this: "If some high school coach from near Athens, with no college coaching experience whatsoever, could be hired for $250,000, would the fans support such a hire in order to save money."


At what point did anybody suggest hiring a local high school coach?

The one example I provided is that Maine won a very competitive FCS conference -- one that's had recent national champions in JMU and Richmond -- with a coach making $150k. The point's that there's a whole market of presumably capable coaches outside of the MAC, being paid much less, who are part of the free market for coaches and hirable for less than MAC schools have begun paying. There's a lot of space between Jason Candle's salary and $150k.

Is there anybody here that wants to make the case that MAC schools are getting their money's worth for these coaches and there aren't dozens of hungry, capable coaches who could well out-perform Tim Albin that could be hired for less? That MAC's made their bed and set the market too high. But because they did so doesn't make it smart, and to pretend the only other alternative is to pay a high school coach $150k is pretty disingenuous.

Our record against FCS schools over the last 6 years since 2016 is a whopping 3-2, with a close win over Howard keeping us above .500. And we're not scheduling top 25 teams at that level, for good reason. As Hyatt pointed out, we have greater resources, much better facilities, and substantially larger coaching budgets. And yet on the field our program may not be better than the top FCS schools, and is has lost to mediocre FCS schools over the last few years.

Forgive me if I'm skeptical that our budget helps the league hire the best of the best, and that there's not opportunity to perform just as well spending less.



Last Edited: 1/13/2022 10:58:24 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/13/2022 12:08:18 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


Our record against FCS schools over the last 6 years since 2016 is a whopping 3-2, with a close win over Howard keeping us above .500. And we're not scheduling top 25 teams at that level, for good reason. As Hyatt pointed out, we have greater resources, much better facilities, and substantially larger coaching budgets. And yet on the field our program may not be better than the top FCS schools, and is has lost to mediocre FCS schools over the last few years.







Who did we lose to besides Duquesne? Didn't Solich go unbeaten against the other subdivision? (Although Howard probably should've been a loss. There was a questionable non-call for pass interference on Howard's last possession.)

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/13/2022 12:56:32 PM 
Pataskala wrote:


Who did we lose to besides Duquesne? Didn't Solich go unbeaten against the other subdivision? (Although Howard probably should've been a loss. There was a questionable non-call for pass interference on Howard's last possession.)


Oh, my mistake here. I thought Texas State was still FCS when we played them.

3-1, it turns out.
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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/13/2022 3:55:43 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
L.C. wrote:

I will give you a direct answer. When I hire someone, I know what the market is, and what I will have to offer to get the quality of person that I need. MAC salaries are no different, and they have doubled because they move in the free market, and the schools have bid up the price that must necessarily be paid to get the quality of coach they want. In case you hadn't noticed, salaries for coaches have gone up at all levels, not just in the MAC.


It just feels pretty arbitrary to me to define the market so narrowly and base it entirely on pay at the 11 other schools in the conference. That Toledo thinks 45-27 with a single conference championship in 7 seasons is worth 1 million a year doesn't strike me as a particularly good reason to increase our pay.

L.C. wrote:

What is a coach "worth"? How do you determine that? That's for the free market to decide, and I won't even venture a guess.


L.C. wrote:

I admit that I'm half tempted to post a poll, though, and ask this: "If some high school coach from near Athens, with no college coaching experience whatsoever, could be hired for $250,000, would the fans support such a hire in order to save money."


Are you suggesting there are no metrics that can be used to determine the (very often) highest paid (or second highest paid, maybe) employee brings to a University? If so, I'm doubling down on my stance that coaching salaries are a completely irrational market.

In theory, sports are a loss leader at most schools that increase alumni engagement, which leads to alumni donations. That seems like a pretty clear metric one can use to measure a coaches worth, and you should see a pretty clear correlation between wins and losses and alumni giving. I'd be surprised if that's not the case. I don't think it's an impossible task to value the worth of a football coach.

L.C. wrote:

I admit that I'm half tempted to post a poll, though, and ask this: "If some high school coach from near Athens, with no college coaching experience whatsoever, could be hired for $250,000, would the fans support such a hire in order to save money."


At what point did anybody suggest hiring a local high school coach?

The one example I provided is that Maine won a very competitive FCS conference -- one that's had recent national champions in JMU and Richmond -- with a coach making $150k. The point's that there's a whole market of presumably capable coaches outside of the MAC, being paid much less, who are part of the free market for coaches and hirable for less than MAC schools have begun paying. There's a lot of space between Jason Candle's salary and $150k.

Is there anybody here that wants to make the case that MAC schools are getting their money's worth for these coaches and there aren't dozens of hungry, capable coaches who could well out-perform Tim Albin that could be hired for less? That MAC's made their bed and set the market too high. But because they did so doesn't make it smart, and to pretend the only other alternative is to pay a high school coach $150k is pretty disingenuous.

Our record against FCS schools over the last 6 years since 2016 is a whopping 3-2, with a close win over Howard keeping us above .500. And we're not scheduling top 25 teams at that level, for good reason. As Hyatt pointed out, we have greater resources, much better facilities, and substantially larger coaching budgets. And yet on the field our program may not be better than the top FCS schools, and is has lost to mediocre FCS schools over the last few years.

Forgive me if I'm skeptical that our budget helps the league hire the best of the best, and that there's not opportunity to perform just as well spending less.





I completely agree. Regarding alumns donating to the university because of football wins, I guess it happens, but that wouldn’t motivate me. I can think of a hundred causes more worthy of my donations.
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Mark Lembright '85
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/13/2022 8:39:31 PM 
Ohio participates in a “free” market for coaching salaries, not a “smart” market. Free doesn’t necessarily equate to smart.

Sure, Ohio’s spending a lot of $ on a coach. That being said the MAC is close to if not at the bottom for coaching salaries. Yes, it’s an expensive market. Sure it’s not smart to BLSOS to spend so much $ on a coach at Ohio (and maybe he’s right). Those who are in charge and who are the decision makers are of a different opinion, and whether we like it or not it’s their opinion, along with all the other decision makers participating in that free market, that count.

Free may not to equate smart and maybe at some point Ohio begs out of the college football arms race and says “no mas.” We’ll see. As with all things, time will tell.


P.S. Love this thread-a lot of good discussion here!!

Last Edited: 1/13/2022 8:48:24 PM by Mark Lembright '85
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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/14/2022 11:51:50 AM 
It's a free market except for the players. It's getting closer for them.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/18/2022 5:16:39 PM 
giacomo wrote:
It's a free market except for the players. It's getting closer for them.


And I can’t wait for that to happen. OHIO will finally have a chance in all forms of competition
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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/19/2022 9:34:04 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
giacomo wrote:
It's a free market except for the players. It's getting closer for them.


And I can’t wait for that to happen. OHIO will finally have a chance in all forms of competition


let’s stop pretending like we ever had a chance. players getting paid (in the open) will have little to no impact on the competitive balance. The elite money programs will continue to get the best players and compete for championships. the other 90%+ of programs will not. boosters from alabama and ohio have been providing money and perks to players forever. (just as michael phelps made millions at michigan yet didn’t train there). alabama just pays more and gets much much better players. and they will continue too. elite ohio players have left (been poached) by bigger programs and will continue to be. the finances will just be more evident and we will all finally be able to stop wearing the chip hilton fantasy goggles some still look through when eyeing college sports.
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ozcanroy
  Message Deleted  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 3/22/2022 7:59:02 AM 
This Message was Deleted at 3/22/2022 1:09:45 PM
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 3/22/2022 4:59:24 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
...
Are you suggesting there are no metrics that can be used to determine the (very often) highest paid (or second highest paid, maybe) employee brings to a University? ...

Not at all. I'm sure there are metrics, and I'm sure they are being used. I'm equally sure that the ADs of MAC schools are familiar with what prospects are asking for, while I certainly am not.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
...
At what point did anybody suggest hiring a local high school coach?
...

I just did. I believe they could get a high school coach for $250k. I'm not sure what else they might get at that price. I doubt that they could get the coach from Maine for that. Even if he is, as you claim, earning only $150k, if he is going to step up into a position where he has a chance of failing, he wants to be paid at least the market rate. Let's face it, while he could succeed, he also has a possibility of failing.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
...Is there anybody here that wants to make the case that MAC schools are getting their money's worth for these coaches and there aren't dozens of hungry, capable coaches who could well out-perform Tim Albin that could be hired for less?
...

I wouldn't want to claim that MAC schools are getting their money's worth, but I doubt that there are dozens of coaches who will do a better job for less money. If someone is a good coach, they are going to be insulted if offered a below average salary, so if you are going to offer a below average salary, you should set your sights lower, and try to find someone with potential, but lacking in experience. You might get lucky, and hit the jackpot, and you might not.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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oubobcatjohn
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 3/23/2022 12:42:31 AM 
I miss the old Southwest Conference of the 1980's. They did it right. If one school offered a trans am then the next school offered a Corvette and a double wide for mom. Gotta have a running back with Marcus Dupree's hair.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 3/23/2022 10:53:37 AM 
oubobcatjohn wrote:
I miss the old Southwest Conference of the 1980's. They did it right. If one school offered a trans am then the next school offered a Corvette and a double wide for mom. Gotta have a running back with Marcus Dupree's hair.


Those days are coming back . . . sooner than you might think. NIL has opened the door, and it won't be long before programs with less than perfect integrity are going to be offering other incentives. The whole thing will, IMHO, result in some of the biggest scandals yet in college athletics. The rule of unintended consequences will be coming soon to a stadium or field house near you!

Last Edited: 3/23/2022 10:54:22 AM by OhioCatFan

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 3/23/2022 1:06:15 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
oubobcatjohn wrote:
I miss the old Southwest Conference of the 1980's. They did it right. If one school offered a trans am then the next school offered a Corvette and a double wide for mom. Gotta have a running back with Marcus Dupree's hair.


Those days are coming back . . . sooner than you might think. NIL has opened the door, and it won't be long before programs with less than perfect integrity are going to be offering other incentives. The whole thing will, IMHO, result in some of the biggest scandals yet in college athletics. The rule of unintended consequences will be coming soon to a stadium or field house near you!


Won't be any scandals, it's all legal now! As long as there are no performance bonuses attached to the endorsement, there is not one thing illegal or in violation of any rules. They can give cars, trucks, homes, watches, rings, anything they want and in any amount!
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 3/23/2022 1:38:33 PM 
You both think you're making a pertinent point, but what you're actually illustrating is that where you attempt to restrict markets, black markets pop up.

Players have always received money and gifts, because they've always been valuable to universities. Now they can receive them legally.

That OCF thinks that's a "scandal" just shows how completely the NCAA's propaganda about the sanctity of amateurism and student athletes has infiltrated people's brains.

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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 3/23/2022 3:07:04 PM 
giacomo wrote:
It's a free market except for the players. It's getting closer for them.


It’s always been a free market for athletes. If an athlete doesn’t like the offer from a college, or the NCAA in general, they are free to play their sport elsewhere. Not sure what stops them, or why so many are upset about what the NCAA offers athletes. Nobody is forced to join a college or participate in sports under the NCAA system. Don’t like it? Turn pro and be happy.



Last Edited: 3/23/2022 3:08:30 PM by Ohio69

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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