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Topic:  Should the MAC add new teams?

Topic:  Should the MAC add new teams?
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ExCat21
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  Message Not Read  Should the MAC add new teams?
   Posted: 7/16/2022 12:14:29 PM 
Jackson State is looking to switch conference. I know region-wise this does not makes sense but I think it would be a good opportunity to add maybe 2 more teams.

Would love to steal North and South Dakota teams personally.

Thoughts on teams you would like to see or should we stay where we are?
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC add new teams?
   Posted: 7/16/2022 1:57:15 PM 
You're talking about teams that want to move out of 1AA into the mess known as FBS? Or teams shifting from another G5 conference? Either way, I'd say it depends on the team(s). We've had teams in the recent past that were either using the MAC as a stepping stone to something "better" (e.g., T'erd, UCF, Temps) or that proved to be barely sustainable (UMass). The last addition that lasted was Buffalo, more than 20 years ago. I wouldn't take any school that didn't make a long-term commitment -- at least ten years -- to the MAC and an all-sports commitment. Anything less is not worth the scheduling hassles or having a smaller slice of the media/bowl money pies.


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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC add new teams?
   Posted: 7/17/2022 12:38:10 PM 
The MAC's best chance to expand was lost when the WKU-MTSU deal fell through.
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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC add new teams?
   Posted: 7/17/2022 6:09:15 PM 
The MAC has been among the most consistent conferences as far as geographic proximity over the years I would say, so I’m not seeing many nearby candidates that add much value to the conference. Are there some teams that could move up to FCS that are nearby? Maybe some Illinois(SIU OR ILL ST) or going out further maybe an Iowa school (Northern Iowa). The Dakota’s seem way too far out of the footprint to me. Others like Youngstown st, e Kentucky, n Kentucky have been mentioned among others, but as I’ve said how much excitement does any of them add?

As Jeff said above, those two schools were probably the best fits available and that train has left the station for now

Last Edited: 7/17/2022 6:28:56 PM by colobobcat66

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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC add new teams?
   Posted: 7/17/2022 7:17:08 PM 
Stability or stasis?
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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC add new teams?
   Posted: 7/17/2022 7:46:09 PM 
SBH wrote:
Stability or stasis?


The MAC is just biding it’s time until it gets dropped to a lower football division. Not going upward for sure.
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Maddog13
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC add new teams?
   Posted: 7/17/2022 9:44:39 PM 
Realignment is a money and recruiting grab. I can't see how adding new teams could possibly benefit the MAC. It's very much of a regional product, which was gaining some National exposure due to its willingness to play games in the middle of the week.Only time will tell, but the MAC can't compete with the Big Boys.
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Bobcat Love
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC add new teams?
   Posted: 7/18/2022 7:09:52 PM 
Networks and Streamers need Live Sports content. Even if it's the artificially inflated feel of D1/FBS for schools that have no shot at a real playoff. There is going to be a place for the MAC's and Sun Belt's of the world, simply because the SEC and Big 10 can only supply a finite amount of content. However, the AD's in these lesser conferences are so unbelievably horrible at their jobs, they will undoubtedly screw up whatever leverage they actually do have in the situation.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC add new teams?
   Posted: 7/19/2022 10:49:57 AM 
Jeff McKinney wrote:
The MAC's best chance to expand was lost when the WKU-MTSU deal fell through.


This. The folks at MTSU were/are short-sighted and pretty much ruined this whole deal for everyone. I know the people over on WKU's board are "OK" with staying where they are, but I think most were looking forward to the change until MTSU decided that adding a bunch of Texas and Southern schools along with the scandalous Liberty was good enough. Especially considering how bad C-USA's TV deal is, I'd be pretty ticked off if I were the Hilltopper faithful.

I do think it's quite hilarious that people would be super excited about NDSU joining this conference not realizing they'd probably kick our collective asses fairly quickly after a brief adjustment period. Also, the MAC has shown they want to keep this league a bus-travel, regional product. Nobody can bus to NDSU. Unless they took a page from the Big Ten or SEC and made sweeping changes grabbing a handful of team to get to 16-20 teams. But we know they won't do that.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC add new teams?
   Posted: 7/19/2022 11:11:58 AM 
Jeff McKinney wrote:
The MAC's best chance to expand was lost when the WKU-MTSU deal fell through.


I don't think this deal is totally dead. If MTSU comes to its senses, I think it might be put back on the table.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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M.D.W.S.T
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC add new teams?
   Posted: 7/20/2022 11:37:39 AM 
colobobcat66 wrote:
The MAC has been among the most consistent conferences as far as geographic proximity over the years I would say, so I’m not seeing many nearby candidates that add much value to the conference. Are there some teams that could move up to FCS that are nearby? Maybe some Illinois(SIU OR ILL ST) or going out further maybe an Iowa school (Northern Iowa). The Dakota’s seem way too far out of the footprint to me. Others like Youngstown st, e Kentucky, n Kentucky have been mentioned among others, but as I’ve said how much excitement does any of them add?

As Jeff said above, those two schools were probably the best fits available and that train has left the station for now


Youngstown would make the most sense, from both a facilities and geography stand point, but they've been pretty beaten down in FCS over the last few years.

FBS isn't a money making venture for most schools, so it's a lot to ask a school like that to pony up (or ask their students to pony up) for additional scholarships, upgrades, coaching salaries, travel, etc etc etc

Perhaps they could see it as a student recruitment tool, but I think if they were ever gonna jump to FBS they would've wanted and probably needed Tressel to lead the charge.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC add new teams?
   Posted: 7/20/2022 2:36:33 PM 
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
The MAC has been among the most consistent conferences as far as geographic proximity over the years I would say, so I’m not seeing many nearby candidates that add much value to the conference. Are there some teams that could move up to FCS that are nearby? Maybe some Illinois(SIU OR ILL ST) or going out further maybe an Iowa school (Northern Iowa). The Dakota’s seem way too far out of the footprint to me. Others like Youngstown st, e Kentucky, n Kentucky have been mentioned among others, but as I’ve said how much excitement does any of them add?

As Jeff said above, those two schools were probably the best fits available and that train has left the station for now


Youngstown would make the most sense, from both a facilities and geography stand point, but they've been pretty beaten down in FCS over the last few years.

FBS isn't a money making venture for most schools, so it's a lot to ask a school like that to pony up (or ask their students to pony up) for additional scholarships, upgrades, coaching salaries, travel, etc etc etc

Perhaps they could see it as a student recruitment tool, but I think if they were ever gonna jump to FBS they would've wanted and probably needed Tressel to lead the charge.


The problem with Youngstown State other than what you mentioned is their proximity. Most of the MAC doesn't want another Ohio school, and I can't imagine Kent or Akron would feel great adding another competitor in their immediate footprint.

Eastern Kentucky has expressed interest in moving up, but I'm not sure about others like SIU or Illinois State.
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M.D.W.S.T
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC add new teams?
   Posted: 7/23/2022 5:01:51 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
The MAC has been among the most consistent conferences as far as geographic proximity over the years I would say, so I’m not seeing many nearby candidates that add much value to the conference. Are there some teams that could move up to FCS that are nearby? Maybe some Illinois(SIU OR ILL ST) or going out further maybe an Iowa school (Northern Iowa). The Dakota’s seem way too far out of the footprint to me. Others like Youngstown st, e Kentucky, n Kentucky have been mentioned among others, but as I’ve said how much excitement does any of them add?

As Jeff said above, those two schools were probably the best fits available and that train has left the station for now


Youngstown would make the most sense, from both a facilities and geography stand point, but they've been pretty beaten down in FCS over the last few years.

FBS isn't a money making venture for most schools, so it's a lot to ask a school like that to pony up (or ask their students to pony up) for additional scholarships, upgrades, coaching salaries, travel, etc etc etc

Perhaps they could see it as a student recruitment tool, but I think if they were ever gonna jump to FBS they would've wanted and probably needed Tressel to lead the charge.


The problem with Youngstown State other than what you mentioned is their proximity. Most of the MAC doesn't want another Ohio school, and I can't imagine Kent or Akron would feel great adding another competitor in their immediate footprint.

Eastern Kentucky has expressed interest in moving up, but I'm not sure about others like SIU or Illinois State.


Unless it's North Dakota State and South Dakota State, I'm not sure any teams make sense.

NDSU has won 9 of the past 11 FCS championships and the two schools have combined for the last eight Summit League men’s basketball championships.

NDSU football consistently produces NFL talent, though I think a lot of that has to do with them being a massive fish in a small pond. Only two MAC schools have produced more NFL draft picks in that time: Toledo, with six, and Western Michigan, with seven.

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BobcatSports
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC add new teams?
   Posted: 7/23/2022 7:55:45 PM 
The MAC always has been and probably ever remain a bus league. In what universe does it make ANY sense to add North and South Dakota State unless your goals is to financially bury the MAC in exorbitant travel expenses. Without the student fee gimmick that is imposed on the largely disinterested student fan bases across the MAC, and yes our beloved alma mater included, adding the Dakota schools won’t make a wit of difference to the students of the MAC. How quickly some forget that enormous swelling of the student sections across the MAC when UCF and UMass pimped the MAC for “temporary” membership. Yea adding North & South Dakota State to our travel itineraries will solve our money woes. I wouldn’t be planning stadium expansion quite yet even IF the Dakotas would sign on for MACTION.
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC add new teams?
   Posted: 7/23/2022 8:22:46 PM 
BobcatSports wrote:
The MAC always has been and probably ever remain a bus league. In what universe does it make ANY sense to add North and South Dakota State unless your goals is to financially bury the MAC in exorbitant travel expenses. Without the student fee gimmick that is imposed on the largely disinterested student fan bases across the MAC, and yes our beloved alma mater included, adding the Dakota schools won’t make a wit of difference to the students of the MAC. How quickly some forget that enormous swelling of the student sections across the MAC when UCF and UMass pimped the MAC for “temporary” membership. Yea adding North & South Dakota State to our travel itineraries will solve our money woes. I wouldn’t be planning stadium expansion quite yet even IF the Dakotas would sign on for MACTION.


Don't forget Temple. Three years after Temps joined the MAC hardly any students knew they were in our conference. Part of it had to do with their being football-only. We didn't see them during b-ball season, so nobody heard about them after November. And everybody who WAS aware Temps was in the league knew that they would be gone at the first opportunity. That's why a long-term, all-sports commitment is needed from ANY school that wants into the MAC.


We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

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M.D.W.S.T
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC add new teams?
   Posted: 7/25/2022 3:54:28 PM 
BobcatSports wrote:
The MAC always has been and probably ever remain a bus league. In what universe does it make ANY sense to add North and South Dakota State unless your goals is to financially bury the MAC in exorbitant travel expenses. Without the student fee gimmick that is imposed on the largely disinterested student fan bases across the MAC, and yes our beloved alma mater included, adding the Dakota schools won’t make a wit of difference to the students of the MAC. How quickly some forget that enormous swelling of the student sections across the MAC when UCF and UMass pimped the MAC for “temporary” membership. Yea adding North & South Dakota State to our travel itineraries will solve our money woes. I wouldn’t be planning stadium expansion quite yet even IF the Dakotas would sign on for MACTION.


I get what you're pretending to be mad about, but I hardly think flying the 1,000 miles to North Dakota rather than the 850 to Iowa is going to lead to financial ruin.

Nevermind your condescending and misguided whining, adding good teams to the conference should be the goal, not sitting on your hands and pouting about student disinterest.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC add new teams?
   Posted: 7/25/2022 7:33:05 PM 
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
BobcatSports wrote:
The MAC always has been and probably ever remain a bus league. In what universe does it make ANY sense to add North and South Dakota State unless your goals is to financially bury the MAC in exorbitant travel expenses. Without the student fee gimmick that is imposed on the largely disinterested student fan bases across the MAC, and yes our beloved alma mater included, adding the Dakota schools won’t make a wit of difference to the students of the MAC. How quickly some forget that enormous swelling of the student sections across the MAC when UCF and UMass pimped the MAC for “temporary” membership. Yea adding North & South Dakota State to our travel itineraries will solve our money woes. I wouldn’t be planning stadium expansion quite yet even IF the Dakotas would sign on for MACTION.


I get what you're pretending to be mad about, but I hardly think flying the 1,000 miles to North Dakota rather than the 850 to Iowa is going to lead to financial ruin.

Nevermind your condescending and misguided whining, adding good teams to the conference should be the goal, not sitting on your hands and pouting about student disinterest.


Should be the goal, but the MAC has proven they're never going to do that. They go with what fits the best geographically. As great as NDSU is, and as awesome as it would be for them to join the MAC, it's just not realistic unless they grab a bunch of other schools up that way to move up and make some sort of super G5 conference. Which the more I think about it, I wouldn't hate it.

But hey lets have some fun with this. We're grabbing North Dakota, North Dakota State, South Dakota State and Northern Iowa and we're doing pods.

POD 1:
North Dakota State
North Dakota
South Dakota State
Northern Iowa

POD 2:
Northern Illinois
Ball State
Bowling Green
Miami

POD 3:
Western Michigan
Eastern Michigan
Central Michigan
Toledo

POD 4:
Buffalo
Akron
Kent State
Ohio

Scheduling wise you could still have protected rivalries for Ohio-Miami and Bowling Green-Toledo. But all in all this would be a great league for football and basketball.




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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC add new teams?
   Posted: 7/25/2022 8:26:13 PM 
I was thinking today that the MAC and the Ivy League have a lot in common. Both have stayed put during all the skake-ups in their respective football subdivisions. Neither will probably ever play for a national championship in their respective subdivision -- Ivy because they don't want to participate in their subdivision's playoff; the MAC because the "P"s make it extremely difficult for G teams to get in.


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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC add new teams?
   Posted: 7/25/2022 10:12:59 PM 
At this point the MAC is a stagnant league. They won't go adding anyone unless they don't upset the apple cart. The league I feel would be more content adding a middling school who is financially decrepit over adding a school that can elevate the league.

Just an observation, but the league resembles a whack-a-mole machine versus a rising tide raises all boats. When one school gets good, they come back to the pack and another school takes its place. Just not a huge fan of the way the MAC has become.

Now, if it were going to add schools, it needs to find a school building new facilities and willing to commit to the athletics budget. That said, in the Post-Covid university economics, you are going to be hard pressed to find schools that are willing to commit and make some jumps unless a booster wins the lotto (believe me, still my goal to build an off-site hoops arena and practice facilities for hoops and wrestling not regulated by campus rec or any other bs bureaucracy in any manner). At this point, the MAC is where it is, and the only logical moves that will happen is the East Coast goes through a massive realignment and Buffalo leaves the league for said circuit. Maybe Toledo gets offered a slot due to its TV Market, but otherwise, there isn't a lot of incentive to go chase Fiami despite its alumni and no reason to chase NIU.

And again, we missed our chance with any combo of JMU, WKU, and MTSU for the last few years. And again, we have tried adding schools who leave for greener pastures. And since we will never forgive the Thundering Turd, who by all accounts makes too much sense but left a bag of turds at the door each time it left, the MAC is in hold together mode and hope that maybe Grand Valley State wants to make the jump or someone like an Illinois State wants to come over. Youngstown will never be included as mentioned, and Indiana State doesn't have the power to have at it.

Last Edited: 7/25/2022 10:15:24 PM by Buckeye to Bobcat

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M.D.W.S.T
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC add new teams?
   Posted: 7/26/2022 9:15:38 AM 
Pataskala wrote:
I was thinking today that the MAC and the Ivy League have a lot in common. Both have stayed put during all the skake-ups in their respective football subdivisions. Neither will probably ever play for a national championship in their respective subdivision -- Ivy because they don't want to participate in their subdivision's playoff; the MAC because the "P"s make it extremely difficult for G teams to get in.


They dont call us Harvard on the Hocking for nothing.
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BobcatSports
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC add new teams?
   Posted: 7/26/2022 1:45:25 PM 
MWDST, Mount Union has some NFL’ers to crow about, Pierre Garçon and Cecil Shorts III immediately come to mind. They too have won multiple National Championships so why not just add them to MACTION. Trust me it will accomplish the same thing and will greatly reduce the travel costs. But dream on all you want about adding the Dakota’s. Not trying to be Debbie Downer on the MAC, but college football has now become the OSU vs BAMA conferences and they are now like the “exclusive” Prom that going forward will only consider the prettiest of the prettiest! I now live in the heart of the ACC and believe me lots of far bigger names than OHIO and Miami’s are -hitting their pants worried about which insignificant ugly step-sister conference they will land in when the final dance partners are picked. But I guess yearning for a football game on a cold Tuesday/Wednesday November evening in North/South Dakota is just what has always been the missing link to propel the MAC to greatness! It will make the November weeknight games in Athens seem downright balmy though compared to the Dakotas. BTW will there be direct flights from
Athens to Bismarck?
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC add new teams?
   Posted: 7/28/2022 10:00:49 AM 
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
BobcatSports wrote:
The MAC always has been and probably ever remain a bus league. In what universe does it make ANY sense to add North and South Dakota State unless your goals is to financially bury the MAC in exorbitant travel expenses. Without the student fee gimmick that is imposed on the largely disinterested student fan bases across the MAC, and yes our beloved alma mater included, adding the Dakota schools won’t make a wit of difference to the students of the MAC. How quickly some forget that enormous swelling of the student sections across the MAC when UCF and UMass pimped the MAC for “temporary” membership. Yea adding North & South Dakota State to our travel itineraries will solve our money woes. I wouldn’t be planning stadium expansion quite yet even IF the Dakotas would sign on for MACTION.


I get what you're pretending to be mad about, but I hardly think flying the 1,000 miles to North Dakota rather than the 850 to Iowa is going to lead to financial ruin.

Nevermind your condescending and misguided whining, adding good teams to the conference should be the goal, not sitting on your hands and pouting about student disinterest.


Agreed! OHIO fly's more than ANY other school in the conference, we fly to Northern, Western, Buffalo, Central. Fans have actually beat the team back from Buffalo games before with their charter flights. So, what is flying to ND or Iowa going to ruin us?
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC add new teams? (NT)
   Posted: 7/28/2022 10:02:59 AM 

Last Edited: 7/28/2022 10:03:46 AM by BillyTheCat

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC add new teams?
   Posted: 7/28/2022 10:04:32 AM 
BobcatSports wrote:
MWDST, Mount Union has some NFL’ers to crow about, Pierre Garçon and Cecil Shorts III immediately come to mind. They too have won multiple National Championships so why not just add them to MACTION. Trust me it will accomplish the same thing and will greatly reduce the travel costs. But dream on all you want about adding the Dakota’s. Not trying to be Debbie Downer on the MAC, but college football has now become the OSU vs BAMA conferences and they are now like the “exclusive” Prom that going forward will only consider the prettiest of the prettiest! I now live in the heart of the ACC and believe me lots of far bigger names than OHIO and Miami’s are -hitting their pants worried about which insignificant ugly step-sister conference they will land in when the final dance partners are picked. But I guess yearning for a football game on a cold Tuesday/Wednesday November evening in North/South Dakota is just what has always been the missing link to propel the MAC to greatness! It will make the November weeknight games in Athens seem downright balmy though compared to the Dakotas. BTW will there be direct flights from
Athens to Bismarck?


Mount Union would have to reduce the number of scholarships they give if they joined the MAC.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Should the MAC add new teams?
   Posted: 7/28/2022 10:38:56 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
BobcatSports wrote:
MWDST, Mount Union has some NFL’ers to crow about, Pierre Garçon and Cecil Shorts III immediately come to mind. They too have won multiple National Championships so why not just add them to MACTION. Trust me it will accomplish the same thing and will greatly reduce the travel costs. But dream on all you want about adding the Dakota’s. Not trying to be Debbie Downer on the MAC, but college football has now become the OSU vs BAMA conferences and they are now like the “exclusive” Prom that going forward will only consider the prettiest of the prettiest! I now live in the heart of the ACC and believe me lots of far bigger names than OHIO and Miami’s are -hitting their pants worried about which insignificant ugly step-sister conference they will land in when the final dance partners are picked. But I guess yearning for a football game on a cold Tuesday/Wednesday November evening in North/South Dakota is just what has always been the missing link to propel the MAC to greatness! It will make the November weeknight games in Athens seem downright balmy though compared to the Dakotas. BTW will there be direct flights from
Athens to Bismarck?


Mount Union would have to reduce the number of scholarships they give if they joined the MAC.


Yep, those academic and need-based scholarships that so many D3 players qualify for. And, I've heard that just possibly, every now and then, that a football player's need and/or academic assessment might be based on different criteria than that used for the general student population. Now, that's just a rumor, mind you! ;-)


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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