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Topic:  RE: How did the Sunbelt “lap” the MAC

Topic:  RE: How did the Sunbelt “lap” the MAC
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ou79
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  Message Not Read  RE: How did the Sunbelt “lap” the MAC
   Posted: 9/13/2022 2:08:52 PM 
Good post BTC. Not only is the MAC falling behind, if I did the math correctly, overall we truly are the bottom feeder of FBS when it comes to finances. As someone else stated the MAC overall spends less and less while other conferences/leagues spend more. The MAC's product on the field is not good and is getting worse. That directly translates into lost fan bases and hence lost revenue. Not a good thing.
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: How did the Sunbelt “lap” the MAC
   Posted: 9/13/2022 2:44:08 PM 
And yet I guarantee that every Sunbelt team (and all but a few elite Power 5 programs) are losing their shirts on football. So who's doing it "wrong" and who's doing it "right?" Perhaps MAC schools have their priorities a little more in line than these other conferences/schools. I'm okay with watching this level of quality when we play programs of similar caliber. Isn't that really what college sports are supposed to be about?
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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: How did the Sunbelt “lap” the MAC
   Posted: 9/13/2022 4:37:53 PM 
SBH wrote:
And yet I guarantee that every Sunbelt team (and all but a few elite Power 5 programs) are losing their shirts on football. So who's doing it "wrong" and who's doing it "right?" Perhaps MAC schools have their priorities a little more in line than these other conferences/schools. I'm okay with watching this level of quality when we play programs of similar caliber. Isn't that really what college sports are supposed to be about?



I doubt that most P-5 schools are losing money on football. They’re losing money on athletic programs not football.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How did the Sunbelt “lap” the MAC
   Posted: 9/14/2022 8:51:06 AM 
colobobcat66 wrote:
SBH wrote:
And yet I guarantee that every Sunbelt team (and all but a few elite Power 5 programs) are losing their shirts on football. So who's doing it "wrong" and who's doing it "right?" Perhaps MAC schools have their priorities a little more in line than these other conferences/schools. I'm okay with watching this level of quality when we play programs of similar caliber. Isn't that really what college sports are supposed to be about?



I doubt that most P-5 schools are losing money on football. They’re losing money on athletic programs not football.


Exactly!

Interesting, if you look at many of the MAC and G5s, you can see deduct that there is a lot of covering of operating losses with fees and general budget.

Last Edited: 9/14/2022 9:05:52 AM by BillyTheCat
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ohiocatfan1
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  Message Not Read  RE: How did the Sunbelt “lap” the MAC
   Posted: 9/14/2022 10:41:49 AM 
GoCats105 wrote:
Not only have they embraced realignment, but they've asserted their regionality. It's what the MAC wishes it could be with being able to bus to every school in the conference. Texas State is probably the one outlier for most of the Eastern schools.

Also, while they do play weeknight games, their deal with ESPN to put most of their games on ESPN+ so they could play on Saturdays was a huge bonus for them. The MAC playing strictly midweek games in November is killing this conference. The "MACtion" buzz has worn off.


It's the #1 reason I am no longer a season ticket holder. If there ever was a buzz yes it has worn off. I'm not the only one who feels this way. The weeknight games are played in empty stadiums for the most part.
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: How did the Sunbelt “lap” the MAC
   Posted: 9/14/2022 11:57:28 AM 
Thanks for supporting the athletes, OBCF1.

Last Edited: 9/14/2022 11:57:52 AM by SBH
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ou79
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  Message Not Read  RE: How did the Sunbelt “lap” the MAC
   Posted: 9/14/2022 1:27:15 PM 
SBH and others, if it truly is about "saving money" by "doing it right", then why do we not just drop all sports to the D-III level and join the OAC? By doing this we can satisfy the purists who want to play the game for the game's sake and not waste any more money. Seriously, we could save a boat load of money and still have sports teams. Heck, who knows we may even get to compete for that mythical national title while not throwing obscene amounts of money at athletics. Of course what little fan base we still have left will get up and leave but those who whine about college athletics and saving money will surely be happy. BTW, I am NOT an advocate of this approach and would hate to see it.

Last Edited: 9/14/2022 1:31:56 PM by ou79
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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How did the Sunbelt “lap” the MAC
   Posted: 9/14/2022 2:38:14 PM 
ou79 wrote:
SBH and others, if it truly is about "saving money" by "doing it right", then why do we not just drop all sports to the D-III level and join the OAC? By doing this we can satisfy the purists who want to play the game for the game's sake and not waste any more money. Seriously, we could save a boat load of money and still have sports teams. Heck, who knows we may even get to compete for that mythical national title while not throwing obscene amounts of money at athletics. Of course what little fan base we still have left will get up and leave but those who whine about college athletics and saving money will surely be happy. BTW, I am NOT an advocate of this approach and would hate to see it.


I call bullshit.

The $ savings on 20 schollies won't account for the the loss of TV, playoff and buyout game revenue. and believe it or not, as small as it is already, our ticket revenue would take a hit as well.

We'd still rely on student fees to support the full athletic department.




Last Edited: 9/14/2022 2:44:50 PM by Deciduous Forest Cat
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How did the Sunbelt “lap” the MAC
   Posted: 9/14/2022 3:44:34 PM 
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
ou79 wrote:
SBH and others, if it truly is about "saving money" by "doing it right", then why do we not just drop all sports to the D-III level and join the OAC? By doing this we can satisfy the purists who want to play the game for the game's sake and not waste any more money. Seriously, we could save a boat load of money and still have sports teams. Heck, who knows we may even get to compete for that mythical national title while not throwing obscene amounts of money at athletics. Of course what little fan base we still have left will get up and leave but those who whine about college athletics and saving money will surely be happy. BTW, I am NOT an advocate of this approach and would hate to see it.


I call bullshit.

The $ savings on 20 schollies won't account for the the loss of TV, playoff and buyout game revenue. and believe it or not, as small as it is already, our ticket revenue would take a hit as well.

We'd still rely on student fees to support the full athletic department.







In fairness, he said DIII which is NON-Scholarship. He also said he’s not supporting such a move.
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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: How did the Sunbelt “lap” the MAC
   Posted: 9/14/2022 4:33:04 PM 

Interesting topic. When I read the first post, my immediate thought was "because they want to."

I wonder how they are fairing enrollment-wise. I would not be surprised to see they are doing just fine, if not growing.

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: How did the Sunbelt “lap” the MAC
   Posted: 9/14/2022 4:41:18 PM 
A good chunk of the TV money is there because of the dozen or so midweek November football games. It helps ESPN fill up time on a couple of its channels, so Disney is willing to pay for it, at least for now. CBSSN, too.

Probably by 2030, though, that might not be an issue. Cable and satellite companies are bleeding customers, and might not have their current services in another eight years. They're all moving to streaming, so things are likely to be considerably different by then. If everything moves to streaming, there might not be such a need to fill up time on sports channels during the week. It might all be on demand. If the MAC is only on ESPN+ or CBSSN online, it might get no more exposure on a Tuesday or a Wednesday night than it does on a Saturday afternoon. Most, if not all, games would likely be on weekends again.

We will get by.
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We will get by.
We will survive.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How did the Sunbelt “lap” the MAC
   Posted: 9/14/2022 5:17:58 PM 
Pataskala wrote:
A good chunk of the TV money is there because of the dozen or so midweek November football games. It helps ESPN fill up time on a couple of its channels, so Disney is willing to pay for it, at least for now. CBSSN, too.

Probably by 2030, though, that might not be an issue. Cable and satellite companies are bleeding customers, and might not have their current services in another eight years. They're all moving to streaming, so things are likely to be considerably different by then. If everything moves to streaming, there might not be such a need to fill up time on sports channels during the week. It might all be on demand. If the MAC is only on ESPN+ or CBSSN online, it might get no more exposure on a Tuesday or a Wednesday night than it does on a Saturday afternoon. Most, if not all, games would likely be on weekends again.


"live" streaming still relies on "live" viewership. the primo slots will still be saturday afternoon but there will still be a need for weeknight content, andn I think the mid-majors will still see the benefit of exclusive, if inconvenient time slots. the medium will change, but I don't think the need to fill time will change that much.

Edit: subscribing to more than three or four streaming services is starting to get expensive in its own right. cable and satellite companies made their bed in that regard by being dicks and overcharging and !@#$!! the !@#$# of the disneys/espns of the world, forcing people to seek alternative entertainment. I think, or at least hope, this may start to balance back out as cable/sat will be forced to adapt or die, which might mean becoming reasonable (i.e. consistent, fair pricing rather than early promotions followed by unsustainable price hikes).

Last Edited: 9/14/2022 5:25:54 PM by Deciduous Forest Cat
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: How did the Sunbelt “lap” the MAC
   Posted: 9/14/2022 7:22:45 PM 
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
Pataskala wrote:
A good chunk of the TV money is there because of the dozen or so midweek November football games. It helps ESPN fill up time on a couple of its channels, so Disney is willing to pay for it, at least for now. CBSSN, too.

Probably by 2030, though, that might not be an issue. Cable and satellite companies are bleeding customers, and might not have their current services in another eight years. They're all moving to streaming, so things are likely to be considerably different by then. If everything moves to streaming, there might not be such a need to fill up time on sports channels during the week. It might all be on demand. If the MAC is only on ESPN+ or CBSSN online, it might get no more exposure on a Tuesday or a Wednesday night than it does on a Saturday afternoon. Most, if not all, games would likely be on weekends again.


"live" streaming still relies on "live" viewership. the primo slots will still be saturday afternoon but there will still be a need for weeknight content, andn I think the mid-majors will still see the benefit of exclusive, if inconvenient time slots. the medium will change, but I don't think the need to fill time will change that much.

Edit: subscribing to more than three or four streaming services is starting to get expensive in its own right. cable and satellite companies made their bed in that regard by being dicks and overcharging and !@#$!! the !@#$# of the disneys/espns of the world, forcing people to seek alternative entertainment. I think, or at least hope, this may start to balance back out as cable/sat will be forced to adapt or die, which might mean becoming reasonable (i.e. consistent, fair pricing rather than early promotions followed by unsustainable price hikes).


I know this is asking a lot, but the MAC needs to get more creative if they want their product to be recognized. For instance: why doesn't the MAC load up a conference schedule game for everyone in Week 0? The schedule for that week is usually soft as heck outside one marquee matchup usually at a neutral site (Nebraska vs NW in Ireland this year). Dominate Week 0 with the MAC games, on Saturday.

The midweek content will always be needed, but at what point does the TV money outweigh the inconvenience for fans and interest in your program? Basketball is having the same issue with big games that could get 7-10K on a Saturday being moved to Friday night.

Just for comparison sakes, here are some of the midweek games for the Sun Belt:

Appalachian State: 2 total, 1 in November (Thurs against Coastal)
Arkansas St: 0
Coastal Carolina: 1, in November (Thurs against App)
James Madison: 0
GA Southern: 1, in November
GA State: 1, in October
Louisiana: 3, 1 in November
Marshall: 1, in October
Old Dominion: 0
South Alabama: 1, in October
Southern Miss: 1, in October
Texas St: 0
Troy: 1, in October
ULM: 0

Meanwhile: Ohio has 4 midweek November games, depending on how their record is will determine which channel wants which game. Theoretically if Ohio is good enough they could land all 4 on national TV, but what are the odds of that?

The Sun Belt figured out that midweek games work, but only put your best product out there. Nobody wants to see near empty Ball State at EMU.


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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How did the Sunbelt “lap” the MAC
   Posted: 9/15/2022 8:31:56 AM 
GoCats105 wrote:
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
Pataskala wrote:
A good chunk of the TV money is there because of the dozen or so midweek November football games. It helps ESPN fill up time on a couple of its channels, so Disney is willing to pay for it, at least for now. CBSSN, too.

Probably by 2030, though, that might not be an issue. Cable and satellite companies are bleeding customers, and might not have their current services in another eight years. They're all moving to streaming, so things are likely to be considerably different by then. If everything moves to streaming, there might not be such a need to fill up time on sports channels during the week. It might all be on demand. If the MAC is only on ESPN+ or CBSSN online, it might get no more exposure on a Tuesday or a Wednesday night than it does on a Saturday afternoon. Most, if not all, games would likely be on weekends again.


"live" streaming still relies on "live" viewership. the primo slots will still be saturday afternoon but there will still be a need for weeknight content, andn I think the mid-majors will still see the benefit of exclusive, if inconvenient time slots. the medium will change, but I don't think the need to fill time will change that much.

Edit: subscribing to more than three or four streaming services is starting to get expensive in its own right. cable and satellite companies made their bed in that regard by being dicks and overcharging and !@#$!! the !@#$# of the disneys/espns of the world, forcing people to seek alternative entertainment. I think, or at least hope, this may start to balance back out as cable/sat will be forced to adapt or die, which might mean becoming reasonable (i.e. consistent, fair pricing rather than early promotions followed by unsustainable price hikes).


I know this is asking a lot, but the MAC needs to get more creative if they want their product to be recognized. For instance: why doesn't the MAC load up a conference schedule game for everyone in Week 0? The schedule for that week is usually soft as heck outside one marquee matchup usually at a neutral site (Nebraska vs NW in Ireland this year). Dominate Week 0 with the MAC games, on Saturday.

The midweek content will always be needed, but at what point does the TV money outweigh the inconvenience for fans and interest in your program? Basketball is having the same issue with big games that could get 7-10K on a Saturday being moved to Friday night.

Just for comparison sakes, here are some of the midweek games for the Sun Belt:

Appalachian State: 2 total, 1 in November (Thurs against Coastal)
Arkansas St: 0
Coastal Carolina: 1, in November (Thurs against App)
James Madison: 0
GA Southern: 1, in November
GA State: 1, in October
Louisiana: 3, 1 in November
Marshall: 1, in October
Old Dominion: 0
South Alabama: 1, in October
Southern Miss: 1, in October
Texas St: 0
Troy: 1, in October
ULM: 0

Meanwhile: Ohio has 4 midweek November games, depending on how their record is will determine which channel wants which game. Theoretically if Ohio is good enough they could land all 4 on national TV, but what are the odds of that?

The Sun Belt figured out that midweek games work, but only put your best product out there. Nobody wants to see near empty Ball State at EMU.



Most MAC stadiums are empty in November, except maybe us sometimes and Toledo? I think we're already doing it by having our best game get picked for highest viewership.

Also, I think coaches accept, but mostly hate, made for TV early conference matchups. No one wants to play such an important game before they know what they have, or have figured out what all the buttons do.
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ohiocatfan1
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  Message Not Read  RE: How did the Sunbelt “lap” the MAC
   Posted: 9/15/2022 9:23:39 AM 
SBH wrote:
Thanks for supporting the athletes, OBCF1.



I think the ESPN money the University receives for playing the late-season weeknight games makes up for me buying single game tickets vs. season tickets.
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: How did the Sunbelt “lap” the MAC
   Posted: 9/15/2022 10:13:27 AM 
Again, thanks for doing as little as you can.
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ohiocatfan1
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  Message Not Read  RE: How did the Sunbelt “lap” the MAC
   Posted: 9/15/2022 10:22:23 AM 
SBH wrote:
Again, thanks for doing as little as you can.



I appreciate the input but I'll spend my money as I see fit.
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: How did the Sunbelt “lap” the MAC
   Posted: 9/15/2022 11:49:45 AM 
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
Most MAC stadiums are empty in November, except maybe us sometimes and Toledo? I think we're already doing it by having our best game get picked for highest viewership.

Also, I think coaches accept, but mostly hate, made for TV early conference matchups. No one wants to play such an important game before they know what they have, or have figured out what all the buttons do.



DFC, your comment got my curiosity up and since I'm retired and have nothing better to do with my time I checked into the last three full seasons where MAC teams played home games on Saturdays in November (pre-Thanksgiving week). Here's their home attendance for October and November, with a couple late September games. I'll let the statisticians make what they want of this, but with a few exceptions there is drop-off in attendance during November and there's usually little difference in attendance between weekdays and Saturdays in November. Of course, some of these figures are likely to be padded to meet NCAA requirements to stay in D1A.

Akron 2021: Sat Oct 2 vs Ohio – 12,616; Sat Oct 23 vs Buffalo – 8,638; Tues Nov 2 vs BSU – 7,683; Sat Nov 20 vs Kent – 8,879

EMU 2019: Sat Oct 12 vs BSU – 17,852; Sat Oct 19 vs WMU – 20,528; Sat Nov 2 vs Buffalo – 16,017; Fri Nov 29 vs Kent – 13,444

Kent 2019: Sat Sep 21 vs BG – 19,700; Sat Oct 26 vs MOFO – 8,455; Thu Nov 14 vs Buffalo – 8,450; Sat Nov 23 vs BSU – 8,825

BG 2019: Sat Oct 12 vs Toledo – 19,199; Sat Oct 19 vs CMU – 15,100; Sat Nov 2 vs Akron – 12,133; Tue Nov 19 vs Ohio – 9,715

CMU 2019: Sat Oct 5 vs EMU – 15,238; Sat Oct 12 vs NMSU – 15,764; Sat Nov 2 vs NIU – 10,438; Fri Nov 29 vs Toledo – 9,101

BSU 2019: Sat Oct 19 vs Toledo – 15,113; Sat Oct 26 vs Ohio – 5,572; Sat Nov 16 vs CMU – 7,249; Fri Nov 29 vs MOFO – 7,155

EMU 2018: Sat Sep 29 vs NIU – 14,779; Sat Oct 13 vs Toledo – 17,998; Sat Oct 27 vs Army – 22,627; Sat Nov 3 vs CMU – 13,468; Sat Nov 10 vs Akron – 12,403

CMU 2018: Sat Oct 6 vs Buffalo – 14,044; Sat Oct 13 vs BSU – 10,255; Sat Oct 20 vs WMU – 10,097; Sat Nov 10 vs BG – 8,041

Akron 2018: Sat Oct 6 vs MOFO – 22,437; Sat Oct 27 vs CMU – 17,582; Thu Nov 1 vs NIU – 16,401; Sat Nov 17 vs BG – 17,742

Last Edited: 9/15/2022 11:51:43 AM by Pataskala

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.
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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: How did the Sunbelt “lap” the MAC
   Posted: 9/16/2022 9:49:16 PM 

Not a single university loses $ on athletics. It’s an investment in each schools brand. And boards of trustees don’t understand why so many still don’t realize this.







Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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ou79
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  Message Not Read  RE: How did the Sunbelt “lap” the MAC
   Posted: 9/17/2022 10:23:08 AM 
Talk about getting a lot of love, tune in ESPN's GameDay show and see how not only App State but the entire SBC is getting a ton of love and along with that exposure. Something the MAC overall in its current state will not see. Great for the SBC and sad for the MAC. All that "stability" is reaping zero for the MAC.
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: How did the Sunbelt “lap” the MAC
   Posted: 9/17/2022 10:58:03 AM 
The MAC's stability has been pretty much dictated by geographics. The MAC doesn't offer much for lateral moves by G5 schools, and frankly the football teams that are available just don't offer much either (UMass, UConn, Army (which probably doesn't want to move anyway), NMSU (about to help water down CUSA)). That leaves teams wanting to move from the other subdivision. That's what SBC has relied on -- Coastal, App St, GaSt, GaSo, SBama, TexSt all were 1AA just a few years ago. Most of CUSA is the same way. Unfortunately, at the moment all the 1AA teams wanting to shift subdivisions are south of the Ohio River and naturally acclimate to southern leagues. I think the last northern team to switch subdivisions was Buffalo, 20 years ago. We've had southern schools in the MAC -- UCF (which didn't make much sense at all) and T'erd -- but they weren't in it for the long haul. They jumped ship at the first opportunity and we could expect the same thing out of any southern team. So until some northern or midwestern 1AA team is ready to switch, the MAC is pretty much stuck where it is. The new CUSA is likely to replace the MAC as the dregs of D1A for a few years, but it probably won't last long.

We will get by.
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We will get by.
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El Gato Roberto
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  Message Not Read  RE: How did the Sunbelt “lap” the MAC
   Posted: 9/17/2022 5:30:08 PM 
I am moving quickly toward the idea of the MAC and Ohio dropping to FCS in football. Watching MAC teams attempting to compete at the higher level has been frustrating. I don’t think this Ohio team could win an FCS Conference championship, right now. While the Sun Belt has arrived. The MAC just doesn’t belong.

"The name's Ohio University, but everybody calls me Ohio. Any of you guys call me Ohio U, and I'll kill you."
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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How did the Sunbelt “lap” the MAC
   Posted: 9/17/2022 5:46:57 PM 
El Gato Roberto wrote:
I am moving quickly toward the idea of the MAC and Ohio dropping to FCS in football. Watching MAC teams attempting to compete at the higher level has been frustrating. I don’t think this Ohio team could win an FCS Conference championship, right now. While the Sun Belt has arrived. The MAC just doesn’t belong.


bullshit. just because we aren't doing it now doesn't mean we can't. we beat and at least competed with plenty of P5 schools in recent decades. Get the right coach (or this one get better) and good things happen.

Right now, however, we do suck. That was embarrassing today.
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El Gato Roberto
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  Message Not Read  RE: How did the Sunbelt “lap” the MAC
   Posted: 9/17/2022 5:48:36 PM 
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
[QUOTE=El Gato Roberto] I am moving quickly toward the idea of the MAC and Ohio dropping to FCS in football. Watching MAC teams attempting to compete at the higher level has been frustrating. I don’t think this Ohio team could win an FCS Conference championship, right now. While the Sun Belt has arrived. The MAC just doesn’t belong.


bullshit. just because we aren't doing it now doesn't mean we can't. we beat and at least competed with plenty of P5 schools in recent decades. Get the right coach (or this one get better) and good things happen.

Right now, however, we do suck. That was embarrassing today.

I’ll just see myself out.

Last Edited: 9/17/2022 6:21:41 PM by El Gato Roberto

"The name's Ohio University, but everybody calls me Ohio. Any of you guys call me Ohio U, and I'll kill you."
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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: How did the Sunbelt “lap” the MAC
   Posted: 9/17/2022 9:01:02 PM 
And BG just takes down marshall!!
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