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Topic:  RE: Extend Tim Albin

Topic:  RE: Extend Tim Albin
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gedunkman
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 12/31/2022 11:17:56 PM 
DC_United47 wrote:
The longer the AD waits, the more this costs OU. Should’ve signed him to an extension when they won the 6th game. Albin made himself some money over the last two months.


Not sure what you mean by costing OU more, but I agree that he deserves an extension.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 12/31/2022 11:43:48 PM 
gedunkman wrote:
DC_United47 wrote:
The longer the AD waits, the more this costs OU. Should’ve signed him to an extension when they won the 6th game. Albin made himself some money over the last two months.


Not sure what you mean by costing OU more, but I agree that he deserves an extension.

I would say that if they do an extension now, they can do it at a reasonable wage, and they can build in some penalties if Tim gets called by a P5 next year. If they wait until next year, and Tim has a good enough season that some want to see before giving him an extension, Tim will have other offers available to consider. Keeping him at Ohio will be much more expensive, if it is even possible.


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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/1/2023 10:06:54 AM 
L.C. wrote:
gedunkman wrote:
DC_United47 wrote:
The longer the AD waits, the more this costs OU. Should’ve signed him to an extension when they won the 6th game. Albin made himself some money over the last two months.


Not sure what you mean by costing OU more, but I agree that he deserves an extension.

I would say that if they do an extension now, they can do it at a reasonable wage, and they can build in some penalties if Tim gets called by a P5 next year. If they wait until next year, and Tim has a good enough season that some want to see before giving him an extension, Tim will have other offers available to consider. Keeping him at Ohio will be much more expensive, if it is even possible.


and no buyout.
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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/1/2023 10:30:28 AM 
Just as there was no reason to fire him earlier in the season after a few losses, there is no reason to sign an extension and pay him more right now. He signed a 4 year deal in 2021. We have time. We should not pay him more. If he gets interest from P5 and wants to go there, we can’t stop him. Someone else will come in and do fine.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/1/2023 12:08:02 PM 
giacomo wrote:
Just as there was no reason to fire him earlier in the season after a few losses, there is no reason to sign an extension and pay him more right now. He signed a 4 year deal in 2021. We have time. We should not pay him more. If he gets interest from P5 and wants to go there, we can’t stop him. Someone else will come in and do fine.

While I respect your opinion, I'll have to disagree, but it does depend on what you would like to see for the future over the longer term. It is normal these days to put coaches on a rollover contract, where they always have 3-4 years remaining. That sets a tone of stability, and sends to message that both the administration and coach are satisfied with the situation, and that it is likely to remain in place for awhile. That, in turn, is a plus for recruiting, and can be self-fulfilling, since the coach is secure and has no reason to be actively looking around (though he still may have a P5 school come looking for him, of course). It also is a very strong positive for assistant coach retention. Assistants like job security, too, and they want to know that their job is not likely to end in only a year or two.

Allowing a contract to get down into the last couple years sets a different tone, and sends a different message. It sends the message that the administration still considers the relationship to be short term, and that it is uncertain to continue beyond the term of the contract. I would expect that if they don't extend Albin, or set up a rollover arrangement, Albin may have an agent actively looking to find him a place with more job security, and his assistant coaches may be looking around, too. Having the head coach and the assistants both thinking about alternatives is not conducive to good results.

How good was 10-4? Solich achieved it once, in 2011, and you have to go clear back to 1968 to find a better season. If tying for the best record in the last fifty years isn't good enough to secure a rollover contract, nothing is. I will not be surprised in the least if assistants like Brian Smith and Spencer Nowinsky get off-season offers to join other staffs, and if they choose to accept an offer where there there is a more stable situation, you can't really blame them.

I was not on the Albin bandwagon at the beginning of the season. I wasn't looking to fire him, either. I was in the wait-and-see camp, with some skepticism because of the 3-9 record last year. I waited, and I've seen, and here is my opinion:

This team was exceptionally well coached, and did more than anyone would have expected. While they didn't win the MAC, I have no doubt that they would have won the MAC easily if not for Kurtis' unfortunate injury, and even after losing Kurtis, they never gave up. They played hard, and played well, holding on against Ball State, crushing BG, battling Toledo and holding them to only 17 points, and then winning a start to finish war against Wyoming. Albin did an outstanding job in all respects. He chose outstanding new assistants, he motivated the players and coaches, and made ever better on the field play calls. He did all that in the face of unending negativity. He definitely deserved the recognition that he got in being named Coach of the Year in the MAC. He deserves the stability of a rollover contract, so that Ohio can focus on continuing to build excellence on the field.


Last Edited: 1/1/2023 12:08:57 PM by L.C.


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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/1/2023 1:27:16 PM 
TA had the advantage of COVID year players with extra eligibility. The 2017-2019 program with one more year left in the tank is a possible way of looking at what was accomplished this year. He wins a bowl next year I say extend him. One thing that hurts him with an extension right now too is a lame duck president and a ladder climbing AD that won't be around long.


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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/1/2023 3:29:12 PM 
I agree with many things you said. As many of you know, I’m not for spending big money on coaches. He is well paid considering we don’t make money on athletics. He had a great year and I’m all for keeping him, but for about the same money. If he jumps to P5 he’ll make a lot more. I wouldn’t pay him 800k or whatever to keep him.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/1/2023 6:55:30 PM 
giacomo wrote:
I agree with many things you said. As many of you know, I’m not for spending big money on coaches. He is well paid considering we don’t make money on athletics. He had a great year and I’m all for keeping him, but for about the same money. If he jumps to P5 he’ll make a lot more. I wouldn’t pay him 800k or whatever to keep him.

For the record, I'm not for paying him an outrageous salary, but rather just to treat him as other similarly situated coaches expect to be treated. I think he ought to have a salary in the upper half of the MAC, and a roll-over contract that adds a year every year so that he always has 3-4 years security. In the long run, it's cheaper to keep someone by treating him fairly, and making him feel appreciated and giving him job security that it is to play brinksmanship, and then having to pony up more to keep him at the last minute.

Last Edited: 1/1/2023 7:05:29 PM by L.C.


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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/2/2023 12:00:37 AM 
L.C. wrote:
giacomo wrote:
Just as there was no reason to fire him earlier in the season after a few losses, there is no reason to sign an extension and pay him more right now. He signed a 4 year deal in 2021. We have time. We should not pay him more. If he gets interest from P5 and wants to go there, we can’t stop him. Someone else will come in and do fine.

While I respect your opinion, I'll have to disagree, but it does depend on what you would like to see for the future over the longer term. It is normal these days to put coaches on a rollover contract, where they always have 3-4 years remaining. That sets a tone of stability, and sends to message that both the administration and coach are satisfied with the situation, and that it is likely to remain in place for awhile. That, in turn, is a plus for recruiting, and can be self-fulfilling, since the coach is secure and has no reason to be actively looking around (though he still may have a P5 school come looking for him, of course). It also is a very strong positive for assistant coach retention. Assistants like job security, too, and they want to know that their job is not likely to end in only a year or two.

Allowing a contract to get down into the last couple years sets a different tone, and sends a different message. It sends the message that the administration still considers the relationship to be short term, and that it is uncertain to continue beyond the term of the contract. I would expect that if they don't extend Albin, or set up a rollover arrangement, Albin may have an agent actively looking to find him a place with more job security, and his assistant coaches may be looking around, too. Having the head coach and the assistants both thinking about alternatives is not conducive to good results.

How good was 10-4? Solich achieved it once, in 2011, and you have to go clear back to 1968 to find a better season. If tying for the best record in the last fifty years isn't good enough to secure a rollover contract, nothing is. I will not be surprised in the least if assistants like Brian Smith and Spencer Nowinsky get off-season offers to join other staffs, and if they choose to accept an offer where there there is a more stable situation, you can't really blame them.

I was not on the Albin bandwagon at the beginning of the season. I wasn't looking to fire him, either. I was in the wait-and-see camp, with some skepticism because of the 3-9 record last year. I waited, and I've seen, and here is my opinion:

This team was exceptionally well coached, and did more than anyone would have expected. While they didn't win the MAC, I have no doubt that they would have won the MAC easily if not for Kurtis' unfortunate injury, and even after losing Kurtis, they never gave up. They played hard, and played well, holding on against Ball State, crushing BG, battling Toledo and holding them to only 17 points, and then winning a start to finish war against Wyoming. Albin did an outstanding job in all respects. He chose outstanding new assistants, he motivated the players and coaches, and made ever better on the field play calls. He did all that in the face of unending negativity. He definitely deserved the recognition that he got in being named Coach of the Year in the MAC. He deserves the stability of a rollover contract, so that Ohio can focus on continuing to build excellence on the field.


Very well put, L.C. I agree wholeheartedly with everything you say in this post.


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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/2/2023 10:08:34 AM 
Campus Flow wrote:
TA had the advantage of COVID year players with extra eligibility. The 2017-2019 program with one more year left in the tank is a possible way of looking at what was accomplished this year. He wins a bowl next year I say extend him. One thing that hurts him with an extension right now too is a lame duck president and a ladder climbing AD that won't be around long.


Every TEAM in America had the advantage of COVID year players with extra eligibility. So what is your point?
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/2/2023 10:09:52 AM 
giacomo wrote:
I agree with many things you said. As many of you know, I’m not for spending big money on coaches. He is well paid considering we don’t make money on athletics. He had a great year and I’m all for keeping him, but for about the same money. If he jumps to P5 he’ll make a lot more. I wouldn’t pay him 800k or whatever to keep him.


As LC stated, you can extend him without ridiculously Rasing salaries, we did it for years with Frank.
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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/2/2023 10:15:31 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Campus Flow wrote:
TA had the advantage of COVID year players with extra eligibility. The 2017-2019 program with one more year left in the tank is a possible way of looking at what was accomplished this year. He wins a bowl next year I say extend him. One thing that hurts him with an extension right now too is a lame duck president and a ladder climbing AD that won't be around long.


Every TEAM in America had the advantage of COVID year players with extra eligibility. So what is your point?


Cupboard was stocked with an extra row of players developed by Frank so its possible to attribute his success from having a little extra leftover from the 2017-2019 era. Enough talent for one more MAC run. How does TA do without the COVID seniors in 2023 is a question.


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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/2/2023 10:25:19 AM 
Quote:
Cupboard was stocked with an extra row of players developed by Frank so its possible to attribute his success from having a little extra leftover from the 2017-2019 era. Enough talent for one more MAC run. How does TA do without the COVID seniors in 2023 is a question.


Again, how is that different from any other coach in America?
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/2/2023 2:35:20 PM 
SBH wrote:
Quote:
Cupboard was stocked with an extra row of players developed by Frank so its possible to attribute his success from having a little extra leftover from the 2017-2019 era. Enough talent for one more MAC run. How does TA do without the COVID seniors in 2023 is a question.


Again, how is that different from any other coach in America?


I think he’s saying that Franks players were “special” compared to every other group in the nation.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/2/2023 8:39:26 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
SBH wrote:
Quote:
Cupboard was stocked with an extra row of players developed by Frank so its possible to attribute his success from having a little extra leftover from the 2017-2019 era. Enough talent for one more MAC run. How does TA do without the COVID seniors in 2023 is a question.


Again, how is that different from any other coach in America?


I think he’s saying that Franks players were “special” compared to every other group in the nation.

Ohio's recruiting class in 2017 was rated 8th best in the MAC.
https://247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/CompositeTeamR...
It included Vonnie Watkins, Caesar, Floyd, Drake, Ross, and Meservy, plus a number of players who have already used their eligibility.

Ohio's recruiting class in 2018 was rated 9th best in the MAC
https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Football/CompositeTeamR...
That included McCrory, Danneker, Houston, Allison, Keye Thompson, and Walton among others.

The 2019 class was rated 5th:
https://247sports.com/Season/2019-Football/CompositeTeamR...
It included Blauser, Daxon, Amburgey, K Rourke, and Ben Johnson, among others.

The 2017 class was definitely under-rated, but the 2018 and 2019 were probably correctly placed in the middle of the MAC. Ohio did not win based on pure ability. They won with a never give up attitude, and teamwork, plus sound schemes.


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DC_United47
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/2/2023 8:47:43 PM 
Campus Flow wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Campus Flow wrote:
TA had the advantage of COVID year players with extra eligibility. The 2017-2019 program with one more year left in the tank is a possible way of looking at what was accomplished this year. He wins a bowl next year I say extend him. One thing that hurts him with an extension right now too is a lame duck president and a ladder climbing AD that won't be around long.


Every TEAM in America had the advantage of COVID year players with extra eligibility. So what is your point?


Cupboard was stocked with an extra row of players developed by Frank so its possible to attribute his success from having a little extra leftover from the 2017-2019 era. Enough talent for one more MAC run. How does TA do without the COVID seniors in 2023 is a question.


Half the players from 2017-2019 were on offense. TA was offensive coordinator. Therefore he was himself responsible for half of his own success LOL. Why can’t we just give the guy the credit he deserves? The TA’s 2022 success doesn’t count because some of the players were also on previously successful teams? Bad faith argument. TA deserves the praise and support. And if we don’t illustrate that support with a market rate reasonable contract extension it won’t matter what he does in 2023, he’ll be gone and every staff member who helped build the 2017-2019 and 2022-2023 teams will be gone too.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/2/2023 8:53:56 PM 
DC_United47 wrote:
Half the players from 2017-2019 were on offense. TA was offensive coordinator. Therefore he was himself responsible for half of his own success LOL. Why can’t we just give the guy the credit he deserves? The TA’s 2022 success doesn’t count because some of the players were also on previously successful teams? Bad faith argument. TA deserves the praise and support. . . .


+1


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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/2/2023 9:51:00 PM 
DC_United47 wrote:
Campus Flow wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Campus Flow wrote:
TA had the advantage of COVID year players with extra eligibility. The 2017-2019 program with one more year left in the tank is a possible way of looking at what was accomplished this year. He wins a bowl next year I say extend him. One thing that hurts him with an extension right now too is a lame duck president and a ladder climbing AD that won't be around long.


Every TEAM in America had the advantage of COVID year players with extra eligibility. So what is your point?


Cupboard was stocked with an extra row of players developed by Frank so its possible to attribute his success from having a little extra leftover from the 2017-2019 era. Enough talent for one more MAC run. How does TA do without the COVID seniors in 2023 is a question.


Half the players from 2017-2019 were on offense. TA was offensive coordinator. Therefore he was himself responsible for half of his own success LOL. Why can’t we just give the guy the credit he deserves? The TA’s 2022 success doesn’t count because some of the players were also on previously successful teams? Bad faith argument. TA deserves the praise and support. And if we don’t illustrate that support with a market rate reasonable contract extension it won’t matter what he does in 2023, he’ll be gone and every staff member who helped build the 2017-2019 and 2022-2023 teams will be gone too.


Let's not get carried away. TA hasn't won the MAC in his 2 seasons and only 13-13 overall. Don't forget he picked up 250,000 of incentives for being MAC coach of the year, winning 10 games and winning the bowl.

Forget about a market rate AAC value contract. This is OU and we are notoriously cheap. It's not our mission to compete.


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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/2/2023 10:05:50 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
SBH wrote:
Quote:
Cupboard was stocked with an extra row of players developed by Frank so its possible to attribute his success from having a little extra leftover from the 2017-2019 era. Enough talent for one more MAC run. How does TA do without the COVID seniors in 2023 is a question.


Again, how is that different from any other coach in America?


I think he’s saying that Franks players were “special” compared to every other group in the nation.


They are special compared to the MAC as Solich players. My point is Ohio may have a relative development edge with its roster with extra players in the system for a slight edge in the MAC.

Its a potential hypothesis along with only a 13-13 record and no MAC title for not backing up a brinks truck to TAs house quite yet. He goes 7-1 in the MAC next year again and gets the program to Detriot that would be the perfect time to preemptively extend and lock up with a buyout before the next coaching opening hit.

As far as trying to extend earlier to pay less now rather than later it doesn't matter because the larger the salary the larger the buyout.

And if you think it's a done deal he's getting it I would ask you where is Jeff Boals contract extension after defeating the defending national champions in the NCAA tournament? He doesn't have an extension but he milked the contract incentives for his big season.


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2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/3/2023 1:16:20 AM 
Put yourself in TA's situation for a moment. Suppose the AD says, "No extension now. We'll see what happens next year". With so many Seniors on defense, a drop to 6-6 is my expectation, and recall, that's exactly what happened in 2007 after the Seniors all left in 2006. With no extension, TA will not have a lot of job security. Suppose someone like Kent offers him a 4 year contract, he'd be a fool not to take it.

Next put yourself in Brian Smith's shoes, or Spencer Nowinsky's shoes. They would also be looking at a not very secure situation, and both have a very marketable resume, and last year boosted it for both of them. I have no doubt they can find a position where the head coach has some job security for at least a few years. IF TA is told "no extension", then for the sake of their families, I would expect that both would look around, and that the only reason they would return next year is if they are unable to find a position that has at least a few years of job security.

Look, I get it. Some people don't care if the assistants leave, or if TA leaves. Obviously, Ohio can hire someone else, and life will go on. If the goal is to pay the minimum necessary, then sure, turn the coaches over and replace them with someone with no experience and no track record. For me, you've got a coaching staff that did an outstanding job, so why not at least make a minimal effort to keep it together for awhile by turning the contract into a rollover situation so the coaches have at least a few years of security? Again, I'm not saying to give huge raises, just to add years to the end of the contract so that they know they have some job security.

Last Edited: 1/3/2023 1:17:37 AM by L.C.


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MonroeClassmate
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/3/2023 9:58:31 AM 
Campus Flow appears to be attempting to get people to think, that there may be more to the story than MAC East Champs and Bowl victors.

Furthering Campus Flow's apparent desire to make you think is that we all should be aware of bias and its impact on thinking without emotions. The bias I include is recency bias. (Investopedia: Recency bias, or availability bias, is a cognitive error identified in behavioral economics whereby people incorrectly believe that recent events will occur again soon. This tendency is irrational, as it obscures the true or objective probabilities of events occurring, leading people to make poor decisions.)

BTC has pointed out that TA took over so late that the first half of the first year shouldn't be a judgement on TA's ability--perhaps the whole first year.

So throw out losing to Duquesne and the quitting loss to then inferior BGSU from year one. Then throw out how the defense gave up miles and miles of passing yardage to several teams before the win streak began and you are left with the top coach in the MAC. But it is all recent and you possibly are letting bias effect your thinking. Don't get sucked into a rather small trend to believe that the recent results can be expected to continue with only minor set backs along the way over an extended contract period.

Are we in a bull or bear market for stocks/bonds? Non professional investors throughout millennium have been whipsawed by their recency bias. Is TA a top level MAC coach who can consistently run a top MAC level program? Looking at games post Kent State is too small a data subset to effectively judge IMO. There was no gun to TA's head to sign a four year deal so TA should be content to wait out another year to see what consensus in results has emerged. And if he is as good as recent exciting results then TA should be compensated accordingly within the University budget.

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DC_United47
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/3/2023 10:43:58 AM 
L.C. wrote:
Put yourself in TA's situation for a moment. Suppose the AD says, "No extension now. We'll see what happens next year". With so many Seniors on defense, a drop to 6-6 is my expectation, and recall, that's exactly what happened in 2007 after the Seniors all left in 2006. With no extension, TA will not have a lot of job security. Suppose someone like Kent offers him a 4 year contract, he'd be a fool not to take it.

Next put yourself in Brian Smith's shoes, or Spencer Nowinsky's shoes. They would also be looking at a not very secure situation, and both have a very marketable resume, and last year boosted it for both of them. I have no doubt they can find a position where the head coach has some job security for at least a few years. IF TA is told "no extension", then for the sake of their families, I would expect that both would look around, and that the only reason they would return next year is if they are unable to find a position that has at least a few years of job security.

Look, I get it. Some people don't care if the assistants leave, or if TA leaves. Obviously, Ohio can hire someone else, and life will go on. If the goal is to pay the minimum necessary, then sure, turn the coaches over and replace them with someone with no experience and no track record. For me, you've got a coaching staff that did an outstanding job, so why not at least make a minimal effort to keep it together for awhile by turning the contract into a rollover situation so the coaches have at least a few years of security? Again, I'm not saying to give huge raises, just to add years to the end of the contract so that they know they have some job security.


Agreed.

And we’re all talking about Albin specifically, but add in all the long-time assistants too. The same ones who helped build Frank’s teams. Isphording, Dixon, Metz, Scott, D. Smith, Covington, and Faanes were all a part of building Frank’s teams alongside Albin. The way things work in college football, if you let the head coach turn over you’re going to most if not all of the assistants.

If ten wins and a MAC championship loss with a back-up quarterback isn’t enough to secure the head coach a reasonable, market-rate extension then I don’t know what is.

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DC_United47
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Member Since: 7/23/2022
Post Count: 34

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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/3/2023 10:47:24 AM 
Campus Flow wrote:
DC_United47 wrote:
Campus Flow wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Campus Flow wrote:
TA had the advantage of COVID year players with extra eligibility. The 2017-2019 program with one more year left in the tank is a possible way of looking at what was accomplished this year. He wins a bowl next year I say extend him. One thing that hurts him with an extension right now too is a lame duck president and a ladder climbing AD that won't be around long.


Every TEAM in America had the advantage of COVID year players with extra eligibility. So what is your point?


Cupboard was stocked with an extra row of players developed by Frank so its possible to attribute his success from having a little extra leftover from the 2017-2019 era. Enough talent for one more MAC run. How does TA do without the COVID seniors in 2023 is a question.


Half the players from 2017-2019 were on offense. TA was offensive coordinator. Therefore he was himself responsible for half of his own success LOL. Why can’t we just give the guy the credit he deserves? The TA’s 2022 success doesn’t count because some of the players were also on previously successful teams? Bad faith argument. TA deserves the praise and support. And if we don’t illustrate that support with a market rate reasonable contract extension it won’t matter what he does in 2023, he’ll be gone and every staff member who helped build the 2017-2019 and 2022-2023 teams will be gone too.


Let's not get carried away. TA hasn't won the MAC in his 2 seasons and only 13-13 overall. Don't forget he picked up 250,000 of incentives for being MAC coach of the year, winning 10 games and winning the bowl.

Forget about a market rate AAC value contract. This is OU and we are notoriously cheap. It's not our mission to compete.


“It’s not our mission to compete.” LOL

Then don’t whine when we lose recruits to other schools, lose assistants to other schools, or lose games to other schools that “we shouldn’t lose to.”

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OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 13,058

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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/3/2023 11:51:18 AM 
DC_United47 wrote:
Campus Flow wrote:
DC_United47 wrote:
Campus Flow wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Campus Flow wrote:
TA had the advantage of COVID year players with extra eligibility. The 2017-2019 program with one more year left in the tank is a possible way of looking at what was accomplished this year. He wins a bowl next year I say extend him. One thing that hurts him with an extension right now too is a lame duck president and a ladder climbing AD that won't be around long.


Every TEAM in America had the advantage of COVID year players with extra eligibility. So what is your point?


Cupboard was stocked with an extra row of players developed by Frank so its possible to attribute his success from having a little extra leftover from the 2017-2019 era. Enough talent for one more MAC run. How does TA do without the COVID seniors in 2023 is a question.


Half the players from 2017-2019 were on offense. TA was offensive coordinator. Therefore he was himself responsible for half of his own success LOL. Why can’t we just give the guy the credit he deserves? The TA’s 2022 success doesn’t count because some of the players were also on previously successful teams? Bad faith argument. TA deserves the praise and support. And if we don’t illustrate that support with a market rate reasonable contract extension it won’t matter what he does in 2023, he’ll be gone and every staff member who helped build the 2017-2019 and 2022-2023 teams will be gone too.


Let's not get carried away. TA hasn't won the MAC in his 2 seasons and only 13-13 overall. Don't forget he picked up 250,000 of incentives for being MAC coach of the year, winning 10 games and winning the bowl.

Forget about a market rate AAC value contract. This is OU and we are notoriously cheap. It's not our mission to compete.


“It’s not our mission to compete.” LOL

Then don’t whine when we lose recruits to other schools, lose assistants to other schools, or lose games to other schools that “we shouldn’t lose to.”



None of what we are saying here matters. The AD will extend TA's contract in some manner or another despite what we say here. You can bank on it!


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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L.C.
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Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 9,680

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/3/2023 1:18:55 PM 
MonroeClassmate wrote:
Campus Flow appears to be attempting to get people to think, that there may be more to the story than MAC East Champs and Bowl victors.

Furthering Campus Flow's apparent desire to make you think is that we all should be aware of bias and its impact on thinking without emotions. The bias I include is recency bias. (Investopedia: Recency bias, or availability bias, is a cognitive error identified in behavioral economics whereby people incorrectly believe that recent events will occur again soon. This tendency is irrational, as it obscures the true or objective probabilities of events occurring, leading people to make poor decisions.)

BTC has pointed out that TA took over so late that the first half of the first year shouldn't be a judgement on TA's ability--perhaps the whole first year.

So throw out losing to Duquesne and the quitting loss to then inferior BGSU from year one. Then throw out how the defense gave up miles and miles of passing yardage to several teams before the win streak began and you are left with the top coach in the MAC. But it is all recent and you possibly are letting bias effect your thinking. Don't get sucked into a rather small trend to believe that the recent results can be expected to continue with only minor set backs along the way over an extended contract period.

Are we in a bull or bear market for stocks/bonds? Non professional investors throughout millennium have been whipsawed by their recency bias. Is TA a top level MAC coach who can consistently run a top MAC level program? Looking at games post Kent State is too small a data subset to effectively judge IMO. There was no gun to TA's head to sign a four year deal so TA should be content to wait out another year to see what consensus in results has emerged. And if he is as good as recent exciting results then TA should be compensated accordingly within the University budget.

In the end, the Ohio AD will make the decision. All I can do is predict the outcome of the various things that may happen. Here goes:
1. If there is no extension, Ohio will lose 1 to 4 assistants, and if Albin is offered a four year deal somewhere else, he may take it.
2. If there is a rollover extension, Ohio will lose no more than 1 assistant
3. Ohio will be about 6-6 next year, not another 10-4, and not another coach of the year
4. If there is no extension, and they go 6-6 next year, there will be a return of the "no reason to renew" argument. If the contract is allowed to go down to it's final year, there will be a wholesale bailing by the bulk of the staff.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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