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Topic: RE: Extend Tim Albin

Topic: RE: Extend Tim Albin

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M.D.W.S.T
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RE: Extend Tim Albin

Posted: 1/3/2023 4:04:11 PM

L.C. wrote:

MonroeClassmate wrote:

Campus Flow appears to be attempting to get people to think, that there may be more to the story than MAC East Champs and Bowl victors.

Furthering Campus Flow's apparent desire to make you think is that we all should be aware of bias and its impact on thinking without emotions. The bias I include is recency bias. (Investopedia: Recency bias, or availability bias, is a cognitive error identified in behavioral economics whereby people incorrectly believe that recent events will occur again soon. This tendency is irrational, as it obscures the true or objective probabilities of events occurring, leading people to make poor decisions.)

BTC has pointed out that TA took over so late that the first half of the first year shouldn't be a judgement on TA's ability--perhaps the whole first year.

So throw out losing to Duquesne and the quitting loss to then inferior BGSU from year one. Then throw out how the defense gave up miles and miles of passing yardage to several teams before the win streak began and you are left with the top coach in the MAC. But it is all recent and you possibly are letting bias effect your thinking. Don't get sucked into a rather small trend to believe that the recent results can be expected to continue with only minor set backs along the way over an extended contract period.

Are we in a bull or bear market for stocks/bonds? Non professional investors throughout millennium have been whipsawed by their recency bias. Is TA a top level MAC coach who can consistently run a top MAC level program? Looking at games post Kent State is too small a data subset to effectively judge IMO. There was no gun to TA's head to sign a four year deal so TA should be content to wait out another year to see what consensus in results has emerged. And if he is as good as recent exciting results then TA should be compensated accordingly within the University budget.

In the end, the Ohio AD will make the decision. All I can do is predict the outcome of the various things that may happen. Here goes:
1. If there is no extension, Ohio will lose 1 to 4 assistants, and if Albin is offered a four year deal somewhere else, he may take it.
2. If there is a rollover extension, Ohio will lose no more than 1 assistant
3. Ohio will be about 6-6 next year, not another 10-4, and not another coach of the year
4. If there is no extension, and they go 6-6 next year, there will be a return of the "no reason to renew" argument. If the contract is allowed to go down to it's final year, there will be a wholesale bailing by the bulk of the staff.

1. You're very concerned about assistant coaches. Unless you are Dwayne Dixon, I can't imagine why? If they receive better offers, they will leave. I expect Brian to leave at the first job offer. He didn't come here to be passing game coordinator. An Albin extension isn't going to make him stay. Why would it?

I'm more than happy to extend Tim next season for maybe two years, but again - mid-majors cannot afford to pay a coach $1M to go away. That's how you screw the entire program.

2. Successful programs lose assistants. Especially young assistants. It's better to lose coaches because your program is looked highly upon than the alternative.

3. OU is returning one of the best rosters in the MAC. Barring any other losses, they will have a shot at 10 wins again. Likely will be the favorite to the win the MAC Championship.

When that happens - OU will lose the entire staff, regardless of an arbitrary extension.

4. You already think OU will be 6-6, so why would you want to extend someone who is going to go 6-6? Because you think the ASSISTANTS are going to leave? Again, what? The assistants of a 6-6 team are threatening to leave? Okay. Bye? Have fun at Nelsonville York.

Last Edited: 1/3/2023 4:06:15 PM by M.D.W.S.T

OhioCatFan
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RE: Extend Tim Albin

Posted: 1/3/2023 7:56:03 PM

M.D.W.S.T wrote:

When [we win 10 games again] . . . - OU will lose the entire staff, regardless of an arbitrary extension

Well, our former Nostradamus has left the board, now we have a new one. I don't think that this new one has any more credibility than the first one. While this might or might not happen if we have a very successful year next year, to state it as an absolute is not exactly intellectually honest.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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M.D.W.S.T
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RE: Extend Tim Albin

Posted: 1/3/2023 8:46:21 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

M.D.W.S.T wrote:

When [we win 10 games again] . . . - OU will lose the entire staff, regardless of an arbitrary extension

You're probably right.

Back-to-back 10 win seasons and nobody is leaving.

There's a reason all your posts are mocked and ridiculed.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Extend Tim Albin

Posted: 1/3/2023 11:02:34 PM

M.D.W.S.T wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

M.D.W.S.T wrote:

When [we win 10 games again] . . . - OU will lose the entire staff, regardless of an arbitrary extension

You're probably right.

Back-to-back 10 win seasons and nobody is leaving.

There's a reason all your posts are mocked and ridiculed.

Did I say nobody was leaving? You said everybody would be leaving. You're speaking in absolutes. I'm just advocating a little more qualified language.

Campus Flow
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RE: Extend Tim Albin

Posted: 1/3/2023 11:38:54 PM

Its a veteran staff not up and comers including TA who might be past the point of desirability.

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2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

L.C.
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RE: Extend Tim Albin

Posted: 1/3/2023 11:46:16 PM

M.D.W.S.T wrote:

I wrote a lengthy reply to this, but decided not to post it. This discussion has gone on long enough, and the AD will do whatever she thinks is best. If Tim is given some job security, I hope he appreciates it, loves Ohio, and stays a long time. If he is not, I hope that he is able to find another school that will give him the job security he deserves.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

giacomo
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RE: Extend Tim Albin

Posted: 1/4/2023 8:42:27 PM

Que sera sera.

Bobcat1996
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RE: Extend Tim Albin

Posted: 1/6/2023 3:11:28 PM

"Don't forget he picked up 250,000 of incentives for being MAC coach of the year, winning 10 games and winning the bowl."

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Steve Berkowitz
@ByBerkowitz
Ohio coach Tim Albin picks up $27,285 bonus, as Bobcats win Arizona Bowl over Wyoming. Albin ends season with $74,570 in bonuses.

Wyoming coach Craig Bohl ends season with just over $79,000 in bonuses
8:37 PM � Dec 30, 2022

So whoever mentioned a few days ago that Coach Albin made 250,000 in incentives for earning MAC Coach of the year, according to Steve Berkowitz that is not accurate.

Last Edited: 1/6/2023 3:15:01 PM by Bobcat1996

BillyTheCat
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RE: Extend Tim Albin

Posted: 1/6/2023 3:39:54 PM

Bobcat1996 wrote:

Facts do not seem to matter to the Never Albin group. They still mad we don't get Scott Frost.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Extend Tim Albin

Posted: 1/6/2023 5:00:39 PM

BillyTheCat wrote:

Bobcat1996 wrote:

Facts do not seem to matter to the Never Albin group. They still mad we don't get Scott Frost.

7 of those wins only occurred because Frank Solich breathed on Albin a few years back, so the University should withhold a big chunk of that bonus.

Campus Flow
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RE: Extend Tim Albin

Posted: 1/6/2023 5:49:19 PM

Bobcat1996 wrote:

I thought the MAC Coach of the Year was 100,000 in of its itself for such a substantial award. Too lazy to look it up but here is the contract per The Post.

https://www.thepostathens.com/article/2021/07/ohio-bobcat...

The number I see on here is $83,500 for TA. Cumulative wins for 8, 9 and 10 wins so if you hit 8, 9, 10 the total is $20,000.

It also says that the AD will meet with TA and discuss the terms of the contract no later than 12/31/2022 so if there was a discussion about extension apparently its already happened. Its possible they'll announce it in the post season.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
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2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
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BillyTheCat
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RE: Extend Tim Albin

Posted: 1/7/2023 8:28:38 AM

Campus Flow wrote:

Bobcat1996 wrote:

It's possible they do not announce anything.

BillyTheCat
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RE: Extend Tim Albin

Posted: 1/7/2023 8:33:56 AM

5% for winning the MAC East = $26,750
%5 for winning the Bowl = $26,750
10k for MAC COY
30k for cumulative wins of 10

This equals = $93,500

Which is a far cry from the earlier claim that was wildly made!

Campus Flow
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RE: Extend Tim Albin

Posted: 1/7/2023 12:39:59 PM

BillyTheCat wrote:

The difference between 93,500 and 250,000 is the difference between 1 bag of peanuts and 3 bags of peanuts in the coaching salary game. Ole Miss had to bump of Lane Kiffin's salary to 9 million to keep him from Auburn even though they play in the same conference. Liberty tried to keep Hugh Freeze paying 5.5 million but wasn't enough to keep him from Auburn. Its a game not worth trying to win and you can't get anywhere trying to play it anymore like it was possible even 8-10 years ago.

Personally I have always thought TA was an excellent coach. I never liked the "Fire TA" threads when he was OC under Frank. Scapegoating TA to hide under Frank's skirt. I mentioned on here that TA would be the successor first. I didn't participate in the predictions of a poor season and counted down the time clock on his regime like almost all here. I was the first to ask how the team would do in the East after the Akron win. I was also the first to say TA might retire out in Athens.

What I disagree with is the tactical use of a contract extension for TA at this moment in time. He goes 9-3 next year and wins the East again that is the time to do it. 22-16 with back-2-back East titles and only 1 more year guaranteed is perfect timing. I'm fine with the AD matching him and the entire staffs salary with the top of the MAC on the extension by then. The only staff investment within reason the AD can make is tied around the extension so I don't recommend throwing it around lightly at the first sign of bowl eligibility as someone suggested on here. The coach at a minimum should have an overall winning record and a big part of the extension is about protecting the university with a buyout should he leave after winning the MAC Championship which can only be done by establishing a new contract.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

Bobcat1996
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RE: Extend Tim Albin

Posted: 1/7/2023 2:45:22 PM

Looking at MAC football salaries in 2022, Candle at Toledo tops the league with over $1 million. Lester WMU, McElwain CMU, Hammock NIU, Linguist Buffalo and Martin at Miami all were scheduled to be paid more than Ohio's head coach in the fall of 2022. Of those coaches above, only Candle at Toledo has the same amount of conference regular season wins the last two seasons as Coach Albin. Both Candle and Albin have 10 MAC regular season wins the past two years.

giacomo
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RE: Extend Tim Albin

Posted: 1/8/2023 8:34:48 AM

He�s making plenty of money and if he wants more he can move on to P5. We can then get an up and comer. We don�t make money on our athletic program.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Extend Tim Albin

Posted: 1/8/2023 10:08:55 AM

giacomo wrote:

He�s making plenty of money and if he wants more he can move on to P5. We can then get an up and comer. We don�t make money on our athletic program.

I believe that there are only about a dozen schools in the country that make money on their athletics programs.

Bobcat1996
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RE: Extend Tim Albin

Posted: 1/8/2023 12:59:54 PM

"He�s making plenty of money and if he wants more he can move on to P5. We can then get an up and comer. We don�t make money on our athletic program."

I was just pointing out that Coach Albin's salary was in the bottom half of the MAC in 2022. His regular season league record indicates otherwise. As someone mentioned above very few athletic programs make $$$.

L.C.
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RE: Extend Tim Albin

Posted: 1/8/2023 1:59:41 PM

giacomo wrote:

He�s making plenty of money and if he wants more he can move on to P5. We can then get an up and comer. We don�t make money on our athletic program.

I have no idea what TA "wants", and I doubt most people who post on here do, either. Suppose money isn't what he wants? Suppose he and his family enjoy Athens, and he wants to stay at Ohio for the rest of his career? In that case, the things that are most important to him may be positive reinforcement from the AD, and job stability.

From the posts on the board, it seems that there are two ways people on here look at TA. In camp 1, he's in it for the money, and will be gone with a P5 offer. In that case, there is no reason to worry about extending as he will be gone soon anyway. In camp 2, there is the possibility that he wants to stay in Athens, in which case it makes sense to extend, so as to give him job security, and a sense of appreciation. I'm in the second camp, but most people here seem to be in camp 1. I suppose there is also a camp 3, who believe that this year was a fluke, and they think there is a significant possibility of a reversion to 3-9 next year, and they want to preserve the option of letting the contract run out in 2024.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

giacomo
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RE: Extend Tim Albin

Posted: 1/8/2023 2:02:18 PM

Maybe some of you get a boost of self esteem if we paid our coaches 1M. Our coaches should be making dean money, unless some alums are paying the difference. We are a non profit and much of the athletic budget is funded by student fees. It would be totally irresponsible to pay him that kind of money. Please tell me how you justify it.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Extend Tim Albin

Posted: 1/8/2023 3:05:41 PM

giacomo wrote:

We are a charter member of the MAC. Other than the State University of New York at Buffalo, we are probably the most academically prestigious institution in the league. Our athletics should be on par with our academics and other MAC schools. You disagree. That's OK. But, I think I express the majority opinion on this board. Your dissenting voice is welcome. Carry on . . .

BryanHall
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RE: Extend Tim Albin

Posted: 1/8/2023 5:52:03 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

giacomo wrote:

I hate to weigh in with this fact...

Sadly, we are not as academically prestigious as Fiami. We may be just as good academically overall, but they have maintained their prestige by being more selective and keeping enrollment down. I don't think it totally addresses your point, but it is necessary to pint out.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Extend Tim Albin

Posted: 1/8/2023 6:31:59 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Other than the State University of New York at Buffalo, we are probably the most academically prestigious institution in the league. Our athletics should be on par with our academics and other MAC schools.

What scale do you use to determine whether academics and athletics are in concert with one another? Are you saying that if we're ranked third in the league academically, our athletic budget should always be in the top 3?

Curious what one has to do with the other?

OhioCatFan
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RE: Extend Tim Albin

Posted: 1/8/2023 6:36:39 PM

BryanHall wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

giacomo wrote:

They don't have medical school. They don't have a nationally ranked journalism school. They don't have an engineering program. They don't have as many doctoral programs as OHIO. They may be ranked better by USNews&WR for UG education, put they are really not in our league when it comes to being a comprehensive university with some very good research programs, particularly in biomedical sciences and engineering. Did you know that another fellow MAC school, that we like to make fun of almost as much as Miami, has the only master degree program in library science accredited by the ALA in Ohio and one of the few in the Midwest? Who you ask? It's Kent State.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Extend Tim Albin

Posted: 1/8/2023 7:01:49 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

. . .Are you saying that if we're ranked third in the league academically, our athletic budget should always be in the top 3?

Curious what one has to do with the other?

No, I'm just saying that I think there should be rough correlation between the two. Nationally, with the exception of the Ivy League, you'll find most, but not all, of the best academic institutions of any size at all also have good athletic budgets. Even Northwestern in the B1G and Vanderbilt in the SEC appear to have competitive budgets, even though as private schools they don't share that information. And, only the top dozen or so actually make money from their athletic programs.

Pat Fitzgerald at Northwest in 2021 was paid $5.7 million, which is about in the middle of the pack in the B1G. Northwestern probably the most prestigious academic institution in the B1G, or least they think they are. They pay accordingly, not inline with their athletic prowess.

Again, I'm not saying that there should be a 1.00 correlation, just something in the general ballpark.

If you remember I was responding to a poster who feels that we should not pay a football or basketball coach more than a dean. He probably meant and Arts & Science dean not an engineering or medical school dean.

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