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Topic:  University of Toledo Announces Contract Extension for Head Coach Jason Candle

Topic:  University of Toledo Announces Contract Extension for Head Coach Jason Candle
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Trevor Stephens
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  Message Not Read  University of Toledo Announces Contract Extension for Head Coach Jason Candle
   Posted: 1/25/2023 5:12:44 PM 
The University of Toledo and Head Football Coach Jason Candle have agreed to a contract extension through the 2026 season, Toledo Vice President and Director of Athletics Bryan B. Blair announced today.

https://utrockets.com/news/2023/1/25/university-of-toledo...

Last Edited: 1/25/2023 5:16:45 PM by Trevor Stephens

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M.D.W.S.T
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  Message Not Read  RE: University of Toledo Announces Contract Extension for Head Coach Jason Candle
   Posted: 1/25/2023 5:27:16 PM 
I still can't believe they pay him $1M per year.

I can't believe they can afford to pay him $1M per year.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: University of Toledo Announces Contract Extension for Head Coach Jason Candle
   Posted: 1/25/2023 6:23:26 PM 
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
I still can't believe they pay him $1M per year.

I can't believe they can afford to pay him $1M per year.


Easy to do in the fourth largest city in Ohio and when you've won 2 MAC championships in the last six years.

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: University of Toledo Announces Contract Extension for Head Coach Jason Candle
   Posted: 1/25/2023 7:33:05 PM 
And yet, when I visited their board before the MACC, they had not one, but seven separate threads talking about why Candle should be fired immediately, and no threads about the MAC Championship game at all until about a day before the game.


ďWe have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.Ē ― Epictetus

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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: University of Toledo Announces Contract Extension for Head Coach Jason Candle
   Posted: 1/25/2023 7:35:13 PM 
Trying to create a rule of thumb, Clemson pays its HC 10 million against a total budget of 108 million. 10% of athletic budget then is about the absolute max a coach will be paid. OU's budget is 21.6 million so the most OU could pay a HC using that rule of thumb would be 2 million. However 2 million is not going to be enough to keep him over a lower level P5/High level G5 that pay around 3-4 million per year.

Dayton is bigger than Toledo if you compare Montgomery County to Lucas County in population and the Toledo MSA is one of the poorest in the country so I totally doubt its size is a factor. Toledo's enrollment is way down also.

Albin is on the lower end of the pay spectrum for the MAC because he was an internal hire and only 2 years as HC. He wasn't given the exact salary he has because OU couldn't afford a penny more. It was what was fair at the moment he was hired.


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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: University of Toledo Announces Contract Extension for Head Coach Jason Candle
   Posted: 1/25/2023 7:39:08 PM 
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
I still can't believe they pay him $1M per year.

I can't believe they can afford to pay him $1M per year.


They have a budget that is 25.2 million, about 4 million more than OU.

The money has to go to something.


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DC_United47
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  Message Not Read  RE: University of Toledo Announces Contract Extension for Head Coach Jason Candle
   Posted: 1/25/2023 9:13:16 PM 
L.C. wrote:
And yet, when I visited their board before the MACC, they had not one, but seven separate threads talking about why Candle should be fired immediately, and no threads about the MAC Championship game at all until about a day before the game.


Maybe the message boards really arenít a reflection of the coachís value after all LOL
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M.D.W.S.T
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  Message Not Read  RE: University of Toledo Announces Contract Extension for Head Coach Jason Candle
   Posted: 1/25/2023 9:13:34 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
I still can't believe they pay him $1M per year.

I can't believe they can afford to pay him $1M per year.


Easy to do in the fourth largest city in Ohio and when you've won 2 MAC championships in the last six years.



OU's endowment is $200M more than Toledo.

OU has 56 wins since 2015. 4 bowl wins.

Toledo/Candle has 54 wins since 2015. 2 bowl wins.

I can imagine the advertising revenue in Toledo is more robust, but an additional $400K per year (ball park $2.5M+ since his 1st extension) to pay for that contract?
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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: University of Toledo Announces Contract Extension for Head Coach Jason Candle
   Posted: 1/26/2023 8:43:33 AM 

A google told me list of nearby "mid-major" head coaching salaries:
Marshall $800K; App State $900K; Western Kentucky $900k; Middle Tennessee State $825K; Old Dominion $750K; Ohio's Beach State (Coastal Carolina) $1.1m....
Couldn't find James Madison.... Anyway nice to see a MAC school slightly ahead of benchmarks....


Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: University of Toledo Announces Contract Extension for Head Coach Jason Candle
   Posted: 1/26/2023 10:12:34 AM 
I canít find recent info but Toledo was receiving over 2 million in donations support for athletics over 5 years ago. Their student fees to support athletics was the lowest in the MAC ( old data 2015). Football attendance is the highest in the MAC. They seem to be okay financially on several counts. Not sure why we canít believe that they pay their coach $1MM, they must be able to justify it to the people who count there.

Last Edited: 1/26/2023 10:28:39 AM by colobobcat66

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: University of Toledo Announces Contract Extension for Head Coach Jason Candle
   Posted: 1/26/2023 11:34:04 AM 
I found this list of all coaching salaries from 2019:
https://www.boydsbets.com/highest-paid-college-football-c... /

A number of schools near the bottom in pay have replaced their coach between 2019 and 2021. Were they able to save further on a new hire?

ULM, Viator to T. Bowden, 390 to 430, +10%
Kent, Lewis to Burns, 440 to 525, +19%
Buffalo, Leipold to Linquist, 456 to 675, +48%
Akron, Arth to Moorhead, 500 to 500, +0%
S. Miss, Hopson to Hall, 500 to 800, +60%
Ohio, Solich to Albin, 580 to 531, -8%
Coastal Carolina, Chadwell to Beck, 350k to $1m, +185%
Average change, +39%

A number of schools, still had the same coaches in 2021 as 2019. What happened to salaries there?
New Mex St, Martin, 419.6 to 437, +4%
Ball St, Neu, 436 to 453, +4%
EMU, Creighton, 460 to 540, +17%
Hawaii, Rolovich, 4836.5 to 600, +23%
BG, Loeffler, 500 to 525, +5%
Nevada, Novell (since moved to CSU) 500 to 619, +24%
Miami, Martin, 525 to 533, +2%
Average Change, +13%

It would seem that coaching changes, rather than being an opportunity to save money, have usually ended up costing more. Only one school was able to actually reduce pay, while another was able to keep it unchanged.

Last Edited: 1/26/2023 11:49:45 AM by L.C.


ďWe have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.Ē ― Epictetus

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: University of Toledo Announces Contract Extension for Head Coach Jason Candle
   Posted: 1/26/2023 1:23:27 PM 
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
I still can't believe they pay him $1M per year.

I can't believe they can afford to pay him $1M per year.


Easy to do in the fourth largest city in Ohio and when you've won 2 MAC championships in the last six years.



OU's endowment is $200M more than Toledo.

OU has 56 wins since 2015. 4 bowl wins.

Toledo/Candle has 54 wins since 2015. 2 bowl wins.

I can imagine the advertising revenue in Toledo is more robust, but an additional $400K per year (ball park $2.5M+ since his 1st extension) to pay for that contract?


Do you really think the average fan remembers bowl wins? They do remember league championships and most on this board weren't alive when we won the last one.

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M.D.W.S.T
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  Message Not Read  RE: University of Toledo Announces Contract Extension for Head Coach Jason Candle
   Posted: 1/26/2023 1:41:27 PM 
colobobcat66 wrote:
I canít find recent info but Toledo was receiving over 2 million in donations support for athletics over 5 years ago. Their student fees to support athletics was the lowest in the MAC ( old data 2015). Football attendance is the highest in the MAC. They seem to be okay financially on several counts. Not sure why we canít believe that they pay their coach $1MM, they must be able to justify it to the people who count there.


Your final sentence seems to be the biggest hurdle every time athletic spending comes up.

Toledo reported making $32.2M in revenue.
Ohio reported making $26.2M in revenue.

Both reported breaking even.

As far as attendance goes, they're in the same wheelhouse.

OU: 17,692
Toledo: 19,557

OU: 5,732
Toledo: 4,533

They go 1-2 in both major sports.

Last Edited: 1/26/2023 1:50:22 PM by M.D.W.S.T

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M.D.W.S.T
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  Message Not Read  RE: University of Toledo Announces Contract Extension for Head Coach Jason Candle
   Posted: 1/26/2023 1:43:32 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
I still can't believe they pay him $1M per year.

I can't believe they can afford to pay him $1M per year.


Easy to do in the fourth largest city in Ohio and when you've won 2 MAC championships in the last six years.



OU's endowment is $200M more than Toledo.

OU has 56 wins since 2015. 4 bowl wins.

Toledo/Candle has 54 wins since 2015. 2 bowl wins.

I can imagine the advertising revenue in Toledo is more robust, but an additional $400K per year (ball park $2.5M+ since his 1st extension) to pay for that contract?


Do you really think the average fan remembers bowl wins? They do remember league championships and most on this board weren't alive when we won the last one.



I believe you believe the average fan is 60 years old and that 60 year old fan thinks they're the only fan. Yes.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: University of Toledo Announces Contract Extension for Head Coach Jason Candle
   Posted: 1/26/2023 3:05:13 PM 
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
I canít find recent info but Toledo was receiving over 2 million in donations support for athletics over 5 years ago. Their student fees to support athletics was the lowest in the MAC ( old data 2015). Football attendance is the highest in the MAC. They seem to be okay financially on several counts. Not sure why we canít believe that they pay their coach $1MM, they must be able to justify it to the people who count there.


Your final sentence seems to be the biggest hurdle every time athletic spending comes up.

Toledo reported making $32.2M in revenue.
Ohio reported making $26.2M in revenue.

Both reported breaking even.

As far as attendance goes, they're in the same wheelhouse.

OU: 17,692
Toledo: 19,557

OU: 5,732
Toledo: 4,533

They go 1-2 in both major sports.


Making revenue? Those figures aren't even close because they include student fees which is not revenue - it's an appropriation.

As for attendance, as Billy and others have pointed out for years, butts in seats and reported attendance aren't close to being the same. I'd be more interested in actual paid attendance - those who actually purchased a ticket whether they showed up or not.

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M.D.W.S.T
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  Message Not Read  RE: University of Toledo Announces Contract Extension for Head Coach Jason Candle
   Posted: 1/26/2023 3:42:44 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
I canít find recent info but Toledo was receiving over 2 million in donations support for athletics over 5 years ago. Their student fees to support athletics was the lowest in the MAC ( old data 2015). Football attendance is the highest in the MAC. They seem to be okay financially on several counts. Not sure why we canít believe that they pay their coach $1MM, they must be able to justify it to the people who count there.


Your final sentence seems to be the biggest hurdle every time athletic spending comes up.

Toledo reported making $32.2M in revenue.
Ohio reported making $26.2M in revenue.

Both reported breaking even.

As far as attendance goes, they're in the same wheelhouse.

OU: 17,692
Toledo: 19,557

OU: 5,732
Toledo: 4,533

They go 1-2 in both major sports.


Making revenue? Those figures aren't even close because they include student fees which is not revenue - it's an appropriation.

As for attendance, as Billy and others have pointed out for years, butts in seats and reported attendance aren't close to being the same. I'd be more interested in actual paid attendance - those who actually purchased a ticket whether they showed up or not.



I can't speak on hypotheticals and nonsensical babbling, that's where you come in.

I can only address the facts.
https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/ohio-university-m... /
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: University of Toledo Announces Contract Extension for Head Coach Jason Candle
   Posted: 1/26/2023 3:56:39 PM 
Quote:


I can't speak on hypotheticals and nonsensical babbling, that's where you come in.

I can only address the facts.
https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/ohio-university-m... /


This quote alone from your esteemed source should raise eyebrows.

"The sports teams at OHIO Athens brought home $26,265,803 in revenue while shelling out $26,265,803 in expenses. Thatís not a profit, but then again, itís not a loss either."

I'd love to see your breakdown by amount where that $26,265,803 came from. The vast majority of it was an appropriation of student fees - hardly revenue. Here, I'll make it easy for you. 66% of "revenue" came from student fees.

https://www.sportico.com/business/commerce/2021/college-s... /

And here is a very interesting chart/set of data that shows how we compare to the rest of the MAC and the FBS median.

https://knightnewhousedata.org/fbs/mac/ohio-university#!q...

Last Edited: 1/26/2023 4:00:26 PM by Alan Swank

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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: University of Toledo Announces Contract Extension for Head Coach Jason Candle
   Posted: 1/26/2023 3:59:20 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
I canít find recent info but Toledo was receiving over 2 million in donations support for athletics over 5 years ago. Their student fees to support athletics was the lowest in the MAC ( old data 2015). Football attendance is the highest in the MAC. They seem to be okay financially on several counts. Not sure why we canít believe that they pay their coach $1MM, they must be able to justify it to the people who count there.


Your final sentence seems to be the biggest hurdle every time athletic spending comes up.

Toledo reported making $32.2M in revenue.
Ohio reported making $26.2M in revenue.

Both reported breaking even.

As far as attendance goes, they're in the same wheelhouse.

OU: 17,692
Toledo: 19,557

OU: 5,732
Toledo: 4,533

They go 1-2 in both major sports.


Making revenue? Those figures aren't even close because they include student fees which is not revenue - it's an appropriation.

As for attendance, as Billy and others have pointed out for years, butts in seats and reported attendance aren't close to being the same. I'd be more interested in actual paid attendance - those who actually purchased a ticket whether they showed up or not.



This reminds me of a time I was getting my grad degree at Xavier. While I was there I was interning for the AD with marketing doing the timeout and halftime promotions and such. I distinctly remember overhearing a radio conversation between the SID, Marketing, Ticketing and the facilities guy who ran the Cintas Center. I can't remember the game, but it definitely wasn't a marquee matchup - some middle of winter game against an A-10 conference opponent.

Anyways, ticket guy comes over the radio with the actual tickets scanned number (people through the door). Marketing guy says something like "eh, lets just round it up to X,XXX" Now, Cintas at the time had a capacity of 10,000. I'd only ever seen it completely full twice - for Cincinnati and Dayton. Other times it was still a pretty packed house as this was in the midst of their A-10 dominance, but it definitely was NOT full by any means. During the timeout promotions I'd walk around the top and there were plenty of empty seats to be had.

There was one time when they rounded it up to sell out just because it was "close enough." I kept thinking to myself, "you just added 700 extra people to this building" and laughing. NCAA attendance is a marketing ploy. Tell people you sold out and it makes it sound like you've got the hottest ticket in town.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: University of Toledo Announces Contract Extension for Head Coach Jason Candle
   Posted: 1/26/2023 4:39:25 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
....
https://knightnewhousedata.org/fbs/mac/ohio-university#!q...

I have no idea how accurate these numbers are, but one number in particular looks odd to me, that being ticket revenue for all sports combined being $50,000. If Ohio sells 16,000 tickets average for 6 games, at an average ticket price of $0.52, and collects no ticket revenue from any other sports, that is $49,920. I'm pretty sure that the average football ticket price is more than 52 cents, and I'm pretty sure that Ohio collects ticket revenue from basketball, as well as other sports, so this number seems suspicious.


ďWe have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.Ē ― Epictetus

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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: University of Toledo Announces Contract Extension for Head Coach Jason Candle
   Posted: 1/26/2023 7:10:15 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
I canít find recent info but Toledo was receiving over 2 million in donations support for athletics over 5 years ago. Their student fees to support athletics was the lowest in the MAC ( old data 2015). Football attendance is the highest in the MAC. They seem to be okay financially on several counts. Not sure why we canít believe that they pay their coach $1MM, they must be able to justify it to the people who count there.


Your final sentence seems to be the biggest hurdle every time athletic spending comes up.

Toledo reported making $32.2M in revenue.
Ohio reported making $26.2M in revenue.

Both reported breaking even.

As far as attendance goes, they're in the same wheelhouse.

OU: 17,692
Toledo: 19,557

OU: 5,732
Toledo: 4,533

They go 1-2 in both major sports.


Making revenue? Those figures aren't even close because they include student fees which is not revenue - it's an appropriation.

As for attendance, as Billy and others have pointed out for years, butts in seats and reported attendance aren't close to being the same. I'd be more interested in actual paid attendance - those who actually purchased a ticket whether they showed up or not.


Alan that I agree those budget numbers are not indicative of revenue and include different components in them. One school will include a band while another will not so the budget numbers aren't even a direct apples to apple comparison. Some will have facility debt included in the numbers to inflate outlay.

But what it speaks to more in a general way is financial commitment of an athletic department. SEC budgets are all 3-4 times MAC budgets. A larger G5 budget shows generally greater commitment, particularly if the difference is more than a few million.


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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: University of Toledo Announces Contract Extension for Head Coach Jason Candle
   Posted: 1/26/2023 7:11:49 PM 
We should follow them into the sea like a lemming.
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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: University of Toledo Announces Contract Extension for Head Coach Jason Candle
   Posted: 1/26/2023 7:20:55 PM 
I know some on here are ANGRY that TA isn't the highest paid coach in the MAC but all that is needed to show a commitment at the conference level is to get him into the Top 3 or 4 pay wise of the conference to be competitive.

There is no point in paying him 2 million a year to be the highest paid and then have Toledo turn around in a year when Candle leaves going ahead to bring in a coach that is paid 2.5 million. All it does is cause a coaching salary arms race in the MAC. Its not going to be enough to prevent him from going to a P5. This is why you've seen a leveling of of G5 salaries in recent years to try to stem off a salary arms race.

Would you rather see Ohio pay TA an extra 900k a year or see Ohio spend 900k on new hydro pools? Which is going to have a greater impact on recruiting?


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2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: University of Toledo Announces Contract Extension for Head Coach Jason Candle
   Posted: 1/26/2023 9:05:03 PM 
giacomo wrote:
We should follow them into the sea like a lemming.


Lol. Itís like 2% of the universityís total budget, the university ainít ramping up spending like many others have, and all the dozens and dozens of presidents and board members and various execs and influential alums over the last 30-40 years consistently decide itís worth the investment. Step away from the ocean. Or dive in. It ainít destroying anything or anyone.




Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: University of Toledo Announces Contract Extension for Head Coach Jason Candle
   Posted: 1/26/2023 10:26:04 PM 
Ohio69 wrote:
giacomo wrote:
We should follow them into the sea like a lemming.


Lol. Itís like 2% of the universityís total budget, the university ainít ramping up spending like many others have, and all the dozens and dozens of presidents and board members and various execs and influential alums over the last 30-40 years consistently decide itís worth the investment. Step away from the ocean. Or dive in. It ainít destroying anything or anyone.


When your two main competitors for students are increasingly OSU and UC you want to invest. JC has said Boal's win over Virginia in the tournament was worth $91 million in marketing value to Ohio. Was it a plea for help aimed at the administration for more support?


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2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: University of Toledo Announces Contract Extension for Head Coach Jason Candle
   Posted: 1/27/2023 12:25:38 AM 
Campus Flow wrote:
I know some on here are ANGRY that TA isn't the highest paid coach in the MAC but all that is needed to show a commitment at the conference level is to get him into the Top 3 or 4 pay wise of the conference to be competitive....

Umm, what??? I haven't seen even one person suggest that he should be the top paid coach in the MAC, much less be angry that he is not. In my poll, the only option for a substantial raise was to move him up to the 3rd highest paid in the MAC, and it was not a popular choice, gathering only 3 votes, making it less than the combined 4 for the two choices at the other extreme, taking his contract to expiration with no extension or raise, and encouraging him to leave. I lump them together, because doing the former would certainly encourage the latter.

BA is pretty much divided between people who think he should get a small extension and a small raise, and those who think we should wait a year. Myself, I'm in the camp to give him job security by extending his contract a year, and giving him a small raise to keep up with inflation. As I showed above, keeping a good choice happy by giving him job security and small raises is usually much less expensive than hiring a new coach to replace him.


ďWe have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.Ē ― Epictetus

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