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Topic:  RE: Extend Tim Albin

Topic:  RE: Extend Tim Albin
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/11/2023 11:14:19 PM 
L.C. wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Have you taken into account none of them should make as much as the President of the University.

Really, that's totally irrelevant, and has nothing to do with the proper ways to determine the pay of either the Football Coach or the President. For both, the proper pricing depends on two things. The first is the competitive salaries. How much do you need to pay in order to get the quality you expect? The second is, how much do they contribute directly to the financial and academic success of the University?

For the football coach, it seems that most MAC schools seem to think that in today's market, a starting pay in the $540-625k range is appropriate, and the starting pay for established coaches is not much different. What about looking at the value? A good coach can contribute value in a couple of ways. First, can he put butts in the seats? The second one is harder to determine, and involves the question of how does he affect contributions to the University? Is he a good face of the University, that inspires donations, not just for athletics, but for the general fund as well?

Looking at attendance first, Solich, for a long time, had Ohio's attendance consistently averaging over 21k a game, but that slumped the last few years as attendance slumped nationwide for all teams. How has TA done? Here are numbers for the last few years:
2016 21,190 per home game
2017 19,388
2018 about 16,500 (no attendance numbers available for Howard)
2019 16,566
2021 17,626
2022 17,692

2021 was helped by a big attendance for Syracuse. If we look just at MAC games, in 2021 the average was 15,609, while the 2022 average was 16,781, an increase of 7.5%. If we guess that the average ticket price is $20, then for 6 games Ohio takes in about $2.1 million. A 7.5% increase is about $160k. What if that trend holds, and Ohio can get back to the 21,000 numbers prior to 2018? That would be a difference of over $400k. So, a bad coach can keep the program going, but a good coach that fills the seats is definitely worth more. How is Albin doing? So far, not bad. Attendance in 2022 was the highest since 2017, but it as a ways to go.

What about the argument that the whole program loses money? That's an argument with no basis. In proper cost accounting, you have to look at marginal costs, not average costs. If Coach A costs $400k and keeps things going, while Coach B costs $550k but contributes an extra $200k to revenue, which is the best choice? As for the argument "but the whole program loses money", that's an argument towards the question "should their be a football program at all", not towards the question of how much to pay the coach.

As for the question of how the coach affects giving, that's a question I can't answer. Is TA a good face for the University? Does he stimulate giving in general, not just to athletics? That I can't answer. I do know that traditionally, after a good football or basketball year, general giving rises for a year or two. Will it rise after last year's 10-4 record and bowl win? If things go as they usually do, probably, but I can't say for certain.

Thus, I can't answer the overall question of "how much should TA be paid". All I can do is provide a proper framework. The decision should be made with regard to valid questions, like, how much is he contributing to attendance and giving.


Sorry LC, that was total sarcasm on my part
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/11/2023 11:18:00 PM 
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
L.C. wrote:


This is what I found on MAC coaches pay, compiles from a variety of sources, so it may not be accurate:

1. Candle, Toledo $1.1
2. Taylor, WMU $850k
3. McElwain, CMU $840k
4. Linguist, Buffalo $675k
5. Hammock, NIU $631k
6. Creighton, EMU $540k
7. Burns, Kent $540k
8. Martin, Miami $533k
9. Albin, Ohio $531k
10. Loeffler, BG $525k
11. Moorhead, Akron $500k
12. Neu, Ball State $453k


Based on this, I see no reason not to bump Albin to $580k, which would keep him up with inflation, but also move him into the top half of the MAC salaries.


Honestly, this list has convinced me more than any argument on this website, perhaps ever.

9th of 12? Is that the hometown discount? Yuck.

What does basketball look like?




Don't know the whole list, but Boals is second, Groce first: https://www.crainscleveland.com/kevin-kleps-blog/akrons-g...

Funny that a year ago people here insisted that our AD got "snookered" and "bamboozled" in her negotiations with Albin.


I’ve never really spent any time looking into it, but I’m pretty surprised Boals is the 123rd paid coach.

That explains a lot.

https://theresourcenexus.com/coaches-salary /



So Boals is in the TOP 1/3rd of basketball coaches. Where is Tim? Bottom 50%


I have another data point to add here...

Albin is a first time head coach following a hall of famer, and is being paid nearly the same.

$589K for the winningest coach in MAC history.

$531K for a guy in his first job.

I also didn't realize how vastly underpaid Solich was at the time... OU should be the #1 destination for coaches and recruits. Always. All programs. (except maybe Soccer... and Hockey)

https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/ou-coach-solich-s-...


$589K also gets you the 2nd losingest coach in MAC History, and cancelling the games we did during COVID kept him from owning the #1 spot in both catagories. So what is the value of $589K? It's not like we are talking the SEC record winningest coach with their percentage. And where does Frank rank in MAC winning %? Just curious.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/12/2023 11:22:04 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Sorry LC, that was total sarcasm on my part

No worries, I understood that. I just quoted it as a convenient segue into the topic of how the wages of a University President and the wages of a football coach are totally unrelated to each other, and factors that go into determining what each salary might be. Depending on what the real facts are, one might be higher, or the other might be, but there is no set magic that says one should be higher than the other.

The same is true in business, by the way. If you search, it's common to find cases where the President of a business is the highest paid employee, but there certainly have been cases where the head of R&D is the highest paid, or even more commonly, where the head of Sales is the highest paid. And, that's perfectly appropriate, depending on the factors that drive the profits of the company. In my own small business, for example, I'm not the highest paid employee. That belongs to the person that runs the day-to-day affairs, and that is as it should be. These days, she has more impact on profits than I do.

BillyTheCat wrote:
... And where does Frank rank in MAC winning %? Just curious.

Perhaps a better question would be, where does he rank relative to the "normal" win percentage over the last 50 years at his school? It seems clear that some schools have won a much higher percentage of games over the last fifty years than Ohio. For example, if you were offered a head coaching job at either Toledo or Akron these days, where do you think you would have a higher chance of winning 70% of your games? Where would you have a better chance of moving up to a P5 job? Are the chances equal?

Last Edited: 1/12/2023 11:27:44 AM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Bobcat1996
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/12/2023 1:08:54 PM 
Quote:
Seems like an apples-to-oranges comparison to me.

Boals on the other hand was already a head coach and it took more to get him here. Our basketball program's also just better than our football program. You can make the case we're in the top third of basketball programs nationally, while football's almost certainly in the bottom half despite our string of bowl appearances.



If you count league tournament championships more so than the regular season, then Ohio's basketball program has had success. Some people may argue that the basketball program has not been any better than the football program since Coach Solich arrived in 2005. Since the Larry Hunter coached team in 1994, not one regular season outright title has been won. The 2013 team coached by Jim Christian ended up second seed to Akron. Basketball is top priority in Athens. Although since Coach Solich and Coach Albin arrived in 2005, the Bobcats have won five MAC East titles and ended up this past regular season as the only team to win seven conference games in the MAC. No other league school had more than five conference regular season wins in 2022. In 2006, Ohio and Central Michigan tied for the league most seven regular season conference wins. The basketball team has zero MAC East titles, but has won four league tournaments since Larry Hunter was dismissed. Football isn't given a second opportunity if it is the nine seed during the regular season. The regular season is extremely important in football. Not certain that can be said about basketball.

Last Edited: 1/12/2023 1:17:21 PM by Bobcat1996
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/12/2023 1:29:34 PM 
Agree completely. BBall program is an underperformer given our program resources vis a vis other MAC schools. The hiring of Christian following Groce was a huge mistake in retrospect.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/12/2023 1:39:20 PM 
Bobcat1996 wrote:


If you count league tournament championships more so than the regular season, then Ohio's basketball program has had success.


I mean, I do. I think everybody else does, too. Any Bobcat fans you know that were ho-hum about our wins over Georgetown, Michigan, Virginia, etc. because of that elusive regular season championship?



Bobcat1996 wrote:

Some people may argue that the basketball program has not been any better than the football program since Coach Solich arrived in 2005.


They might. But I suspect not many actually will. A couple of years ago, somebody here created a poll about this, if I recall. The poll wasn't worded exactly like this, but was asking about the most important wins in program history. Options were several NCAA tournament games, MAC championship games, and I think the Pitt game in Solich's first season and the Penn State win. I'm sure there were other football options, but those were regarded as the best two.

I think that says a lot.

Bobcat1996 wrote:

Since the Larry Hunter coached team in 1994, not one regular season outright title has been won. The 2013 team coached by Jim Christian ended up second seed to Akron.


We shared the regular season championship under Christian. That nobody cares is a good indicator that success in basketball is measured by conference and NCAA tournament wins.

Christian's generally considered a failure here, fair or not. Groce isn't. That tells you a lot about how regular season performance is valued.



Bobcat1996 wrote:
Football isn't given a second opportunity if it is the nine seed during the regular season. The regular season is extremely important in football. Not certain that can be said about basketball.


Yep, the sports are different. But I don't think that changes that we've had demonstrable, measurable success in basketball that outstrips what we've done in football.

Last Edited: 1/12/2023 1:41:49 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/12/2023 5:10:39 PM 
L.C. wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Sorry LC, that was total sarcasm on my part

No worries, I understood that. I just quoted it as a convenient segue into the topic of how the wages of a University President and the wages of a football coach are totally unrelated to each other, and factors that go into determining what each salary might be. Depending on what the real facts are, one might be higher, or the other might be, but there is no set magic that says one should be higher than the other.

The same is true in business, by the way. If you search, it's common to find cases where the President of a business is the highest paid employee, but there certainly have been cases where the head of R&D is the highest paid, or even more commonly, where the head of Sales is the highest paid. And, that's perfectly appropriate, depending on the factors that drive the profits of the company. In my own small business, for example, I'm not the highest paid employee. That belongs to the person that runs the day-to-day affairs, and that is as it should be. These days, she has more impact on profits than I do.

BillyTheCat wrote:
... And where does Frank rank in MAC winning %? Just curious.

Perhaps a better question would be, where does he rank relative to the "normal" win percentage over the last 50 years at his school? It seems clear that some schools have won a much higher percentage of games over the last fifty years than Ohio. For example, if you were offered a head coaching job at either Toledo or Akron these days, where do you think you would have a higher chance of winning 70% of your games? Where would you have a better chance of moving up to a P5 job? Are the chances equal?


The key word is "profit". We have none. So make any comparisons you wish, it doesn't add up. Unless you and some others want to get out your checkbooks.
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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/12/2023 7:38:05 PM 

Giacamo, St Jude, and Don Quixote walk into a bar …..

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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TWT
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/12/2023 10:15:38 PM 
Bobcat1996 wrote:
"Seems like an apples-to-oranges comparison to me.

Boals on the other hand was already a head coach and it took more to get him here. Our basketball program's also just better than our football program. You can make the case we're in the top third of basketball programs nationally, while football's almost certainly in the bottom half despite our string of bowl appearances."


If you count league tournament championships more so than the regular season, then Ohio's basketball program has had success. Some people may argue that the basketball program has not been any better than the football program since Coach Solich arrived in 2005. Since the Larry Hunter coached team in 1994, not one regular season outright title has been won. The 2013 team coached by Jim Christian ended up second seed to Akron. Basketball is top priority in Athens. Although since Coach Solich and Coach Albin arrived in 2005, the Bobcats have won five MAC East titles and ended up this past regular season as the only team to win seven conference games in the MAC. No other league school had more than five conference regular season wins in 2022. In 2006, Ohio and Central Michigan tied for the league most seven regular season conference wins. The basketball team has zero MAC East titles, but has won four league tournaments since Larry Hunter was dismissed. Football isn't given a second opportunity if it is the nine seed during the regular season. The regular season is extremely important in football. Not certain that can be said about basketball.


Neither sport is at the forefront of the MAC like Toledo football or Kent State basketball which is odd because Ohio has a better program in both sports. Toledo football accepts non-qualifiers and Kent State basketball plays in a tiny gym. Both lack the fall and spring time weather of Athens and Athens is closer to the southeast for recruiting.

I would say both football and basketball are up a couple of levels from the Knorr/TOS days. Convo remodeled and success in the tournament for basketball. Football in bowl games and a bigger atmosphere in Peden. Both are on TV a ton more than 20 years ago. BPF with 4 hydro pools and a 20,000 square foot weight lifting out facility would go along way to becoming a Top 20 contender. Memphis and Boise State have superior training facilities and why I think they are consistently among the top recruiting programs of the G5.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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Bobcat1996
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/13/2023 7:22:27 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Bobcat1996 wrote:


If you count league tournament championships more so than the regular season, then Ohio's basketball program has had success.


I mean, I do. I think everybody else does, too. Any Bobcat fans you know that were ho-hum about our wins over Georgetown, Michigan, Virginia, etc. because of that elusive regular season championship?



Bobcat1996 wrote:

Some people may argue that the basketball program has not been any better than the football program since Coach Solich arrived in 2005.


They might. But I suspect not many actually will. A couple of years ago, somebody here created a poll about this, if I recall. The poll wasn't worded exactly like this, but was asking about the most important wins in program history. Options were several NCAA tournament games, MAC championship games, and I think the Pitt game in Solich's first season and the Penn State win. I'm sure there were other football options, but those were regarded as the best two.

I think that says a lot.

Bobcat1996 wrote:

Since the Larry Hunter coached team in 1994, not one regular season outright title has been won. The 2013 team coached by Jim Christian ended up second seed to Akron.


We shared the regular season championship under Christian. That nobody cares is a good indicator that success in basketball is measured by conference and NCAA tournament wins.

Christian's generally considered a failure here, fair or not. Groce isn't. That tells you a lot about how regular season performance is valued.



Bobcat1996 wrote:
Football isn't given a second opportunity if it is the nine seed during the regular season. The regular season is extremely important in football. Not certain that can be said about basketball.


Yep, the sports are different. But I don't think that changes that we've had demonstrable, measurable success in basketball that outstrips what we've done in football.


So maybe Bobcat fans who purchase season tickets for basketball need to back off until the conference tournament, since the regular season doesn't matter in basketball.
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Bobcat1996
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/13/2023 7:39:50 AM 
I would suggest Ohio's most consistent basketball team in recent memory was the 1994 Larry Hunter coached team. The Bobcats not only won the regular season, but they also won the conference tourney. They were consistent the entire season. Some others may suggest that "getting hot" and winning the MAC tourney, then winning a game in the NCAA tourney would be a better season. In the sport of basketball, consistency throughout the entire season is not that important. Not many MAC football schools are advancing in the post season if they end up ninth place in the regular season.
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CatsUp
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/13/2023 8:40:28 AM 
Bobcat1996 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Bobcat1996 wrote:


If you count league tournament championships more so than the regular season, then Ohio's basketball program has had success.


I mean, I do. I think everybody else does, too. Any Bobcat fans you know that were ho-hum about our wins over Georgetown, Michigan, Virginia, etc. because of that elusive regular season championship?



Bobcat1996 wrote:

Some people may argue that the basketball program has not been any better than the football program since Coach Solich arrived in 2005.


They might. But I suspect not many actually will. A couple of years ago, somebody here created a poll about this, if I recall. The poll wasn't worded exactly like this, but was asking about the most important wins in program history. Options were several NCAA tournament games, MAC championship games, and I think the Pitt game in Solich's first season and the Penn State win. I'm sure there were other football options, but those were regarded as the best two.

I think that says a lot.

Bobcat1996 wrote:

Since the Larry Hunter coached team in 1994, not one regular season outright title has been won. The 2013 team coached by Jim Christian ended up second seed to Akron.


We shared the regular season championship under Christian. That nobody cares is a good indicator that success in basketball is measured by conference and NCAA tournament wins.

Christian's generally considered a failure here, fair or not. Groce isn't. That tells you a lot about how regular season performance is valued.



Bobcat1996 wrote:
Football isn't given a second opportunity if it is the nine seed during the regular season. The regular season is extremely important in football. Not certain that can be said about basketball.


Yep, the sports are different. But I don't think that changes that we've had demonstrable, measurable success in basketball that outstrips what we've done in football.


So maybe Bobcat fans who purchase season tickets for basketball need to back off until the conference tournament, since the regular season doesn't matter in basketball.


Yeah. Might have to rethink what I do. Don’t keep getting basketball season tickets because the regular season games don’t mean anything. Keep getting football because they at least mean a little bit. Plus, I won’t have to get upset about no popcorn in the Rohr Room. (“Tiger fist pump”) Thanks folks!
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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/13/2023 8:49:14 AM 


I think I understand what some in this board want. They want more, just like Johnny Rocco in Key Largo

https://youtu.be/ITs-YX1yQ7o
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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/13/2023 9:02:47 AM 
giacomo wrote:
I think I understand what some in this board want. They want more, just like Johnny Rocco in Key Largo

https://youtu.be/ITs-YX1yQ7o


Gordan Gecco disagrees..... (insert sarcasm emoji...)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bbzwJ0Sx48

Not only will it save Ohio University Football, it will save America!!!!

Anyway, OU hanging with or slightly leading the lowly MAC in athletic spending should be praised. The university hasn't been cranking up its investment like many other mid-majorish schools across the country. It will be interesting to see what the next OU president and leadership group is up for....

Last Edited: 1/13/2023 9:06:16 AM by Ohio69

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/13/2023 9:34:41 AM 
giacomo wrote:
The key word is "profit". We have none. So make any comparisons you wish, it doesn't add up. Unless you and some others want to get out your checkbooks.

So, you are saying that, if the program is losing money as a whole, then choices that reduce costs should always be taken, even if they reduce revenue even more than they reduce costs?

The question of overall profit is appropriate in the context of a decision as to whether there is a football program at all. It is not relevant at all in the question of marginal decisions, which should be decided on the basis of marginal cost changes and marginal revenue changes. That is a fundamental principle of cost accounting.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Bobcat1996
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/13/2023 11:00:40 AM 
SBH wrote:
Agree completely. BBall program is an underperformer given our program resources vis a vis other MAC schools. The hiring of Christian following Groce was a huge mistake in retrospect.


Agree 100% SBH. Many fans seem to disregard the fact that the basketball program has not won an East Championship, let alone a regular season outright since the Hunter days. The Convo is the best and largest basketball facility in the conference. The same can not be said about Peden Stadium. Maybe the expectations are different for some folks? It could be that some don't care what happens in the span of 30 plus regular season games.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/13/2023 12:23:02 PM 
Bobcat1996 wrote:

So maybe Bobcat fans who purchase season tickets for basketball need to back off until the conference tournament, since the regular season doesn't matter in basketball.


I'm lost. Can you restate your point here? You think the football programs MAC East first place finishes are an indicator of more success than MAC basketball tourny wins and NCAA tournament wins?

And that because of that Larry Hunter is the most successful basketball coach we've had? I'm not sure I get the point.
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Bobcat1996
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/13/2023 1:22:43 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Bobcat1996 wrote:

So maybe Bobcat fans who purchase season tickets for basketball need to back off until the conference tournament, since the regular season doesn't matter in basketball.


I'm lost. Can you restate your point here? You think the football programs MAC East first place finishes are an indicator of more success than MAC basketball tourny wins and NCAA tournament wins?

And that because of that Larry Hunter is the most successful basketball coach we've had? I'm not sure I get the point.


My comments are facts about the basketball program. They have not won an outright regular season championship since the Larry Hunter days. I also did not say that Hunter was the most successful coach in Ohio history. I suggested that the 1994 team was the most consistent in recent memory. The Bobcats won the regular season and conference tourney titles in 1994. That team was consistent throughout the entire season, unlike some of the MAC tourney title teams of recent years. How many of those recent Ohio MAC tourney title teams ended up first place in the East? In football, a school has to win the division to be able to play for a championship. In football, a school can't end up fifth or ninth place overall and be given a second opportunity. The Ohio football program has earned five East titles since 2005. It could be that you and some other fans only consider the conference tournament and post season when evaluating the basketball program. Maybe you disregard the regular season? That is your prerogative. In my opinion, that is the why the regular season is especially more important in football.

Last Edited: 1/13/2023 1:37:36 PM by Bobcat1996
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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/13/2023 4:03:48 PM 
Ohio69 wrote:
giacomo wrote:
I think I understand what some in this board want. They want more, just like Johnny Rocco in Key Largo

https://youtu.be/ITs-YX1yQ7o


Gordan Gecco disagrees..... (insert sarcasm emoji...)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bbzwJ0Sx48

Not only will it save Ohio University Football, it will save America!!!!

Anyway, OU hanging with or slightly leading the lowly MAC in athletic spending should be praised. The university hasn't been cranking up its investment like many other mid-majorish schools across the country. It will be interesting to see what the next OU president and leadership group is up for....



I guess you're like the average American who spends more than they make. Praised for spending more than you bring in? I'm certain our president and AD won't go for that. Keep dreaming about Ohio University utopia where we are in the big time and you can wear your gear proudly to happy hour at Hooters.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/13/2023 6:06:31 PM 
Bobcat1996 wrote:

My comments are facts about the basketball program. They have not won an outright regular season championship since the Larry Hunter days. I also did not say that Hunter was the most successful coach in Ohio history. I suggested that the 1994 team was the most consistent in recent memory. The Bobcats won the regular season and conference tourney titles in 1994. That team was consistent throughout the entire season, unlike some of the MAC tourney title teams of recent years. How many of those recent Ohio MAC tourney title teams ended up first place in the East?


Yes, I know they're facts. But what we're doing here is making cross sport comparisons of facts and trying to interpret them. I'm just trying to better understand your interpretation.

The reason I suggested that you might think Hunter's OU's most successful coach is because you seem to very heavily value regular season success. I'm curious how many people who consider Hunter a more successful coach than Groce?

If you consider how folks compare Christian and Groce here, I think it says a lot about how people think about college basketball. It's not that the regular season doesn't matter, it's more that basketball's a sport where teams play more games and it's a sport where teams regularly go through ebbs and flows. Groce was great at getting the most out of his teams when it mattered most.

But you raise an interesting point. Do people consider success to be a high baseline, but fewer big wins? Or a varied baseline with higher peaks?

Personally, I think the basketball program's accomplished far more of note than the football program.

Bobcat1996 wrote:

In football, a school has to win the division to be able to play for a championship. In football, a school can't end up fifth or ninth place overall and be given a second opportunity. The Ohio football program has earned five East titles since 2005.


It's hard for me to care, truthfully. I get why others do. But it seems like such a meaningless distinction to gauge success based solely on how we compare to 5 other teams. How many people here do you think would consider a week 10 MAC East clinching win vs. Buffalo bigger than Leon Williams' tip in?



Bobcat1996 wrote:

It could be that you and some other fans only consider the conference tournament and post season when evaluating the basketball program. Maybe you disregard the regular season?


I don't disregard it altogether. We've had some very good regular seasons, as well in basketball. We've also had some mediocre ones. But the basketball team is regularly a dangerous team and plays P5 teams tough.

This year we won the East in football and couldn't stay within 30 of either P5 team we played. A MAC East championship was nice. But only one other team in the East had a winning record, and they were 7-6. To consider that success, but say ding a Sweet 16 team for only being the 3 seed in the conference tournament seems off to me.


Bobcat1996 wrote:

In my opinion, that is the why the regular season is especially more important in football.


For what it's worth, this is my point, too. The regular season is more important in football than it is in basketball. I just don't think it's so important that regular season success in football eclipses post season success in basketball.

But if you want to compare how many posts there were on this board about our NCAA tournament wins to how much celebrating there was about out MAC East wins, be my guest.

Last Edited: 1/13/2023 10:13:12 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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TWT
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/13/2023 11:15:04 PM 
If OU is the only G5 program to win a game in the last 3 NCAA Tournaments no doubt that is notable success.

Likewise OU has won 6 bowls since 2011 which is more than any other MAC school in that time period including 4-0 against the Mountain West in bowls the most regarded G5 conference.

The problem in football and basketball is not success but a problem of perception since the program hasn't gone full throttle on facilities as a Memphis or Boise State to give themselves separation within the conference.

If Toledo (Spain) has more well known and so is Kent (England) perhaps OU should change its name to Lyon and then everyone would know who we are. There are so many schools in Ohio that when you say the word "Ohio" they often think a place within Ohio rather than Ohio University proper.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/14/2023 10:46:00 AM 
Campus Flow wrote:
If OU is the only G5 program to win a game in the last 3 NCAA Tournaments no doubt that is notable success.

Likewise OU has won 6 bowls since 2011 which is more than any other MAC school in that time period including 4-0 against the Mountain West in bowls the most regarded G5 conference.

The problem in football and basketball is not success but a problem of perception since the program hasn't gone full throttle on facilities as a Memphis or Boise State to give themselves separation within the conference.

If Toledo (Spain) has more well known and so is Kent (England) perhaps OU should change its name to Lyon and then everyone would know who we are. There are so many schools in Ohio that when you say the word "Ohio" they often think a place within Ohio rather than Ohio University proper.


Then why do we only draw 4700 for a Friday night game with the first place team in the MAC? It has nothing to do with facilities and going in on the arms race as you suggest. Athens is a small metro market and if the surrounding townspeople and students don't attend, this is where we are. They obviously don't really care and it shows in attendance. If we sold out the games maybe we could justify the spending on facilities and coaches,

Scheduling basketball games that compete with local high schools and football games during the week don't help. The stands are empty on the MACtion weeknight games everywhere, not just in Athens. Read the writing on the wall. We are who we are.
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TWT
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/14/2023 2:03:05 PM 
giacomo wrote:
Campus Flow wrote:
If OU is the only G5 program to win a game in the last 3 NCAA Tournaments no doubt that is notable success.

Likewise OU has won 6 bowls since 2011 which is more than any other MAC school in that time period including 4-0 against the Mountain West in bowls the most regarded G5 conference.

The problem in football and basketball is not success but a problem of perception since the program hasn't gone full throttle on facilities as a Memphis or Boise State to give themselves separation within the conference.

If Toledo (Spain) has more well known and so is Kent (England) perhaps OU should change its name to Lyon and then everyone would know who we are. There are so many schools in Ohio that when you say the word "Ohio" they often think a place within Ohio rather than Ohio University proper.


Then why do we only draw 4700 for a Friday night game with the first place team in the MAC? It has nothing to do with facilities and going in on the arms race as you suggest. Athens is a small metro market and if the surrounding townspeople and students don't attend, this is where we are. They obviously don't really care and it shows in attendance. If we sold out the games maybe we could justify the spending on facilities and coaches,

Scheduling basketball games that compete with local high schools and football games during the week don't help. The stands are empty on the MACtion weeknight games everywhere, not just in Athens. Read the writing on the wall. We are who we are.


I said it was a perception issue and not a success issue. To take the athletic program to further heights the perception has to change. Facilities can do that as well as paying a boat load for the HC to make it a "bigger" job.

Appalachian State is in a small metro market but they've invested in facilities so its assumed they are a bigger G5 job though they don't pay the HC a lot.

With the size of the Convo and the setting of Peden its possible to have facilities in Athens that trump anything else the MAC can produce. Give the recruits a big time vibe.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/14/2023 4:27:46 PM 
giacomo wrote:
Ohio69 wrote:
giacomo wrote:
I think I understand what some in this board want. They want more, just like Johnny Rocco in Key Largo

https://youtu.be/ITs-YX1yQ7o


Gordan Gecco disagrees..... (insert sarcasm emoji...)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bbzwJ0Sx48

Not only will it save Ohio University Football, it will save America!!!!

Anyway, OU hanging with or slightly leading the lowly MAC in athletic spending should be praised. The university hasn't been cranking up its investment like many other mid-majorish schools across the country. It will be interesting to see what the next OU president and leadership group is up for....



I guess you're like the average American who spends more than they make. Praised for spending more than you bring in? I'm certain our president and AD won't go for that. Keep dreaming about Ohio University utopia where we are in the big time and you can wear your gear proudly to happy hour at Hooters.


I'm the opposite actually. You're certain? What? How? OU is going to stay div 1 and football/basketball as long as the NCAA lets them. And spend right around where it is spending now compared to benchmarks. And when benchmark spending rises so will OU. As will Miami, Kent, BG, and Akron. None of them are losing money. They are deciding to spend it there. They sky is not falling. Enjoy the games and program. If its not to your liking, Marrietta College and Capital University are fairly close and you may like their model may be more to your liking. Or just start hitting high school sports.

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,074

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  Message Not Read  RE: Extend Tim Albin
   Posted: 1/14/2023 8:58:56 PM 
Campus Flow wrote:
giacomo wrote:
Campus Flow wrote:
If OU is the only G5 program to win a game in the last 3 NCAA Tournaments no doubt that is notable success.

Likewise OU has won 6 bowls since 2011 which is more than any other MAC school in that time period including 4-0 against the Mountain West in bowls the most regarded G5 conference.

The problem in football and basketball is not success but a problem of perception since the program hasn't gone full throttle on facilities as a Memphis or Boise State to give themselves separation within the conference.

If Toledo (Spain) has more well known and so is Kent (England) perhaps OU should change its name to Lyon and then everyone would know who we are. There are so many schools in Ohio that when you say the word "Ohio" they often think a place within Ohio rather than Ohio University proper.


Then why do we only draw 4700 for a Friday night game with the first place team in the MAC? It has nothing to do with facilities and going in on the arms race as you suggest. Athens is a small metro market and if the surrounding townspeople and students don't attend, this is where we are. They obviously don't really care and it shows in attendance. If we sold out the games maybe we could justify the spending on facilities and coaches,

Scheduling basketball games that compete with local high schools and football games during the week don't help. The stands are empty on the MACtion weeknight games everywhere, not just in Athens. Read the writing on the wall. We are who we are.



Appalachian State is in a small metro market but they've invested in facilities so its assumed they are a bigger G5 job though they don't pay the HC a lot.



Have you been to Boone lately? Comparing Boone to Athens is like comparing apples and oranges not to mention the fact that ASU doesn't sit in the shadow of a Big 10 team. Wake Forest is no competition and UT and VT are in different states.
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