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Topic:  State of the Program

Topic:  State of the Program
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71 BOBCAT
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  Message Not Read  State of the Program
   Posted: 1/10/2024 8:31:36 AM 
We are not a good team; poor shooting consistency, weak defense, and weak rebounding.
Because of all these deficiencies we will be lucky to end the year @ .500.






GO BOBCATS

Last Edited: 1/10/2024 8:34:12 AM by 71 BOBCAT

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shabamon
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  Message Not Read  RE: State of the Program
   Posted: 1/10/2024 10:54:12 AM 
I'm not going to make conclusions on the program overall based on games this season, but I will say I think we are seeing the effects of not going into the season with a full deck.

The AJ Brown injury sucks, but injuries happen to every program in one way or another. They can be season-ending surgery or they can be temporary within the season like with Miles. Just have to weather it and work to build depth at the position.

You want to redshirt a true freshman because they are just not physically ready? Ok, I can accept that. Even in transfer world, doing what's right for the player I think will ultimately solidify your reputation when you go recruiting. Let's limit that to one case a year.

We are currently not using one scholarship. Yes, I know we tried and failed with several portal prospects and we did extend offers to freshmen in the class of 2023, most importantly big men, but once Jaylen Carey signed with JMU two Novembers ago, it sure seemed like we had nothing left. No other prospects, no late bloomers, no JUCOs. zip.

The IJ Ezuma situation is unacceptable. We are not owed an explanation why he's not dressing, but we are staring down two straight seasons of street clothes and so we're told last year was NOT due to injury. That's a problem. He was offered a scholarship in exchange for helping the program win basketball games. We can't be carrying a healthy player (who once started in a rivalry game as a true freshman) for two years and he doesn't even dress.

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M.D.W.S.T
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  Message Not Read  RE: State of the Program
   Posted: 1/10/2024 12:12:50 PM 
I'm not pressing the panic button 3 games into the MAC schedule. This league is still winnable, even if we don't look all that good today.

Win in March and no one remembers you went 17-15.

In basketball, fortunes changes in a hurry. Good and bad. All it takes is one player to change your entire trajectory. In our case AJB's injury is going to be the underline of our entire season. He was on a short list of POY candidates, now we're scrambling to replace him and Elmore hasn't stepped up - again, someone else we hoped could develop into a POY candidate.

In the portal anything can and does happen, but if everyone stays and comes back healthy - add Evans into the line-up... and things are starting to look a lot different.

Flip IJ's scholarship into someone like taking a chance on a Marcus Hill (JUCO walking bucket)...

Last Edited: 1/10/2024 12:15:23 PM by M.D.W.S.T

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FJC31
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  Message Not Read  RE: State of the Program
   Posted: 1/10/2024 1:50:28 PM 
shabamon wrote:


We are currently not using one scholarship. Yes, I know we tried and failed with several portal prospects and we did extend offers to freshmen in the class of 2023, most importantly big men, but once Jaylen Carey signed with JMU two Novembers ago, it sure seemed like we had nothing left. No other prospects, no late bloomers, no JUCOs. zip.



As someone who followed the portal and recruiting sites religiously during that time, I was astonished we couldn't fill the last scholarship. Even if it was just a one year player.

When it became apparent we weren't landing Foster and/or other P5 bigs, I was hoping we'd dive into JUCO, D2, and the lower levels of D1. Just to have some size. There were so many players available.

Two names (both 1 year of eligibility left) we were linked to that caught my eye then and seem to be enough now, were Justin Wilson (South Carolina State->NW State) and TJ Nesmith (D2->Radford).

Neither are DW3's/low ceiling types, but both would be exactly what we need in our rotation. I've included their stat links below. Wilson's stats are lesser than Nesmith, but he did just have 10pts and 7 reb against McNeese.

If the plan is to have our offensive firepower run through guards, why not go after a combo (i.e. Moneyball) of size that comes close to a DW3 like production? Especially, if all other options are choosing elsewhere.

This to me, has more to do with scouting and knowing what you're looking for instead of more money. Can't imagine either of these guys broke the bank.


https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/...
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/...

Last Edited: 1/10/2024 1:51:16 PM by FJC31

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100%Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: State of the Program
   Posted: 1/10/2024 2:12:25 PM 
Maybe this is as good a place to ask as any. Why has the Juco route seemed to have fallen out of favor? It seemed like there was a stretch where we had some really good MAC players that came from Juco ranks (N'Dour here and Evans from Kent St immediately come to mind, pretty sure there were others), but that seems to have gone away to an extent lately. Is there a reason for it? Or is it still happening but there haven't been as many "hits?"

Last Edited: 1/10/2024 2:12:52 PM by 100%Cat

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shabamon
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  Message Not Read  RE: State of the Program
   Posted: 1/10/2024 2:40:10 PM 
100%Cat wrote:
Maybe this is as good a place to ask as any. Why has the Juco route seemed to have fallen out of favor? It seemed like there was a stretch where we had some really good MAC players that came from Juco ranks (N'Dour here and Evans from Kent St immediately come to mind, pretty sure there were others), but that seems to have gone away to an extent lately. Is there a reason for it? Or is it still happening but there haven't been as many "hits?"


The transfer portal has replaced it. You need a plug and play player? The thinking has to be there are more proven commodities (athletically and academically) there.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: State of the Program
   Posted: 1/10/2024 3:02:15 PM 
I don't think the program's in a great spot. It certainly doesn't seem to be where it should be with the league's highest paid coach.

We have a recruiting problem. Bottom line is that we're just not talented enough, there have been too many recruiting misses, and the players we do have don't seem to fit into any sort of coherent system.

My fear is that the transfer portal era is less forgiving of misses, and every program becomes a shark -- if it's not moving forward, it dies. Have a down year? Your current roster's much more ripe for the picking. And right now it doesn't seem like we even have a strong culture. It looks like a bunch of dudes don't want to be here.
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bobcat 2000
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  Message Not Read  RE: State of the Program
   Posted: 1/10/2024 3:11:55 PM 
you are right. this team is looking more like the 97-98 team every game they play.
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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: State of the Program
   Posted: 1/10/2024 3:50:35 PM 
shabamon wrote:
100%Cat wrote:
Maybe this is as good a place to ask as any. Why has the Juco route seemed to have fallen out of favor? It seemed like there was a stretch where we had some really good MAC players that came from Juco ranks (N'Dour here and Evans from Kent St immediately come to mind, pretty sure there were others), but that seems to have gone away to an extent lately. Is there a reason for it? Or is it still happening but there haven't been as many "hits?"


The transfer portal has replaced it. You need a plug and play player? The thinking has to be there are more proven commodities (athletically and academically) there.


Vanderbilt transfers Quentin Millora-Brown and Trey Thomas both have scoring averages in double digits this season at mid-majors. You can bet that neither will have any trouble in the classroom. Maybe it's time to start going after the guys in the portal from the more academic schools. At least you know they won't be sitting on the bench in a wind-suit due to a murky academic situation.
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: State of the Program
   Posted: 1/10/2024 3:54:51 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
And right now it doesn't seem like we even have a strong culture. It looks like a bunch of dudes don't want to be here.


Agree. Something seems terribly off. I can't put my finger on it. Which begs the question. Has Boals lost the team? Three games in a row coming up against directional schools. The next 13 days will be telling.

Last Edited: 1/10/2024 3:55:34 PM by FearLeon


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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shabamon
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  Message Not Read  RE: State of the Program
   Posted: 1/10/2024 4:14:22 PM 
FearLeon wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
And right now it doesn't seem like we even have a strong culture. It looks like a bunch of dudes don't want to be here.


Agree. Something seems terribly off. I can't put my finger on it. Which begs the question. Has Boals lost the team? Three games in a row coming up against directional schools. The next 13 days will be telling.


I would not go that far. We would be getting blown out a lot more if that was the case. We're nowhere close to Bean Willis and Mo Ndour nearly fighting in the Millett Hall locker room.

I just see a team lacking personnel resources and for that reason, we are limited in who we can put on the floor together and what we can try. I don't think we've put Clayton and the Wiz on the floor for more together for more than five minutes all season when there could be situations when it might be beneficial. Not having a capable/available IJ affects that. I can't recall a moment all season when Ike and Hadaway have been on the floor together.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: State of the Program
   Posted: 1/10/2024 4:40:36 PM 
bobcat 2000 wrote:
you are right. this team is looking more like the 97-98 team every game they play.


I don't know, I'll take that team

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/ohio/men/199...
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: State of the Program
   Posted: 1/10/2024 4:41:45 PM 
shabamon wrote:


I just see a team lacking personnel resources and for that reason, we are limited in who we can put on the floor together and what we can try.


Just because I live in Seattle, this is eerily similar to the Mariners situation right now. They're not a bad team, but they also aren't winning a World Series anytime soon because there are obvious holes on the roster and management hasn't done enough to fill those holes and/or won't spend the money to do so. That's what being average is.

I started getting worried when the Ohio Basketball Twitter/X account tweeted the summer program picture. We just did NOT look like a team that was ready. We aren't a team that looks good coming off the bus.

But they play hard! And relatively (?) smart in most cases. They're just not talented enough.

shabamon wrote:


The IJ Ezuma situation is unacceptable. We are not owed an explanation why he's not dressing, but we are staring down two straight seasons of street clothes and so we're told last year was NOT due to injury. That's a problem. He was offered a scholarship in exchange for helping the program win basketball games. We can't be carrying a healthy player (who once started in a rivalry game as a true freshman) for two years and he doesn't even dress.



This more than anything is what kills me. It's a wasted scholly. In football, you get 85 and have a hand full of walk-ons so it's really not that big of a deal. But when you get only 13 in basketball, you gotta make sure they all count. Like you said, maybe redshirting one here and there is OK, but having a guy completely sit it out for 2 years in a row is absolutely ludicrous. It's a bad look.

Last Edited: 1/10/2024 4:42:44 PM by GoCats105

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: State of the Program
   Posted: 1/10/2024 4:56:26 PM 
shabamon wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
And right now it doesn't seem like we even have a strong culture. It looks like a bunch of dudes don't want to be here.


Agree. Something seems terribly off. I can't put my finger on it. Which begs the question. Has Boals lost the team? Three games in a row coming up against directional schools. The next 13 days will be telling.


I would not go that far. We would be getting blown out a lot more if that was the case. We're nowhere close to Bean Willis and Mo Ndour nearly fighting in the Millett Hall locker room.

I just see a team lacking personnel resources and for that reason, we are limited in who we can put on the floor together and what we can try. I don't think we've put Clayton and the Wiz on the floor for more together for more than five minutes all season when there could be situations when it might be beneficial. Not having a capable/available IJ affects that. I can't recall a moment all season when Ike and Hadaway have been on the floor together.


Exactly! Granted, not the results anyone wanted or expected. But hell they are in these games, had chances to win most. Just have to get over the hump. You get team, thatís faced adversity and figuring it out.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: State of the Program
   Posted: 1/10/2024 5:17:04 PM 
greencat wrote:


Vanderbilt transfers Quentin Millora-Brown and Trey Thomas both have scoring averages in double digits this season at mid-majors. You can bet that neither will have any trouble in the classroom. Maybe it's time to start going after the guys in the portal from the more academic schools. At least you know they won't be sitting on the bench in a wind-suit due to a murky academic situation.


I don't know anything about Quentin Millora-Brown and Trey Thomas, but if you think Vanderbilt's basketball team has to meet the same academic standard that the rest of Vanderbilt's student body meets, you haven't been paying attention to college sports for, I dunno, ever.

Here's Zion Williamson's class schedule at Duke: https://twitter.com/BarstoolU/status/1741296133412909428?...

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: State of the Program
   Posted: 1/10/2024 5:32:24 PM 
I'm alone on this one it seems, but the IJ Izuma thing seems like a bit of a scapegoat. Not sure it's fair he's become the punching bag he's become.

We have no big man depth, and IJ is in street clothes. So I get the frustration. But we're not feeling that pain nearly as much if Wiz was serviceable, or Colin Granger and Sam Towns hadn't left, or if Nolan Foster hadn't been a miss.

We've basically hit on one true 5 under Boals (Dwight Wilson) and one 4 in AJC who is now asked to do way too much on D because he's playing up a position in too many rotations.

Sucks that Izuma isn't a useful member of the team. But it's not like he's the only scholarship we've wasted over the years. There's been a lot of swings and misses.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: State of the Program
   Posted: 1/10/2024 6:41:17 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
greencat wrote:


Vanderbilt transfers Quentin Millora-Brown and Trey Thomas both have scoring averages in double digits this season at mid-majors. You can bet that neither will have any trouble in the classroom. Maybe it's time to start going after the guys in the portal from the more academic schools. At least you know they won't be sitting on the bench in a wind-suit due to a murky academic situation.


I don't know anything about Quentin Millora-Brown and Trey Thomas, but if you think Vanderbilt's basketball team has to meet the same academic standard that the rest of Vanderbilt's student body meets, you haven't been paying attention to college sports for, I dunno, ever.

Here's Zion Williamson's class schedule at Duke: https://twitter.com/BarstoolU/status/1741296133412909428?...



I always got a chuckle at this when I was interning at Xavier. People have no idea what goes on behind the scenes to keep some of these guys eligible.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: State of the Program
   Posted: 1/10/2024 8:08:17 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
greencat wrote:


Vanderbilt transfers Quentin Millora-Brown and Trey Thomas both have scoring averages in double digits this season at mid-majors. You can bet that neither will have any trouble in the classroom. Maybe it's time to start going after the guys in the portal from the more academic schools. At least you know they won't be sitting on the bench in a wind-suit due to a murky academic situation.


I don't know anything about Quentin Millora-Brown and Trey Thomas, but if you think Vanderbilt's basketball team has to meet the same academic standard that the rest of Vanderbilt's student body meets, you haven't been paying attention to college sports for, I dunno, ever.

Here's Zion Williamson's class schedule at Duke: https://twitter.com/BarstoolU/status/1741296133412909428?...



I always got a chuckle at this when I was interning at Xavier. People have no idea what goes on behind the scenes to keep some of these guys eligible.


+1
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: State of the Program
   Posted: 1/10/2024 9:01:08 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
shabamon wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
And right now it doesn't seem like we even have a strong culture. It looks like a bunch of dudes don't want to be here.


Agree. Something seems terribly off. I can't put my finger on it. Which begs the question. Has Boals lost the team? Three games in a row coming up against directional schools. The next 13 days will be telling.


I would not go that far. We would be getting blown out a lot more if that was the case. We're nowhere close to Bean Willis and Mo Ndour nearly fighting in the Millett Hall locker room.

I just see a team lacking personnel resources and for that reason, we are limited in who we can put on the floor together and what we can try. I don't think we've put Clayton and the Wiz on the floor for more together for more than five minutes all season when there could be situations when it might be beneficial. Not having a capable/available IJ affects that. I can't recall a moment all season when Ike and Hadaway have been on the floor together.


Exactly! Granted, not the results anyone wanted or expected. But hell they are in these games, had chances to win most. Just have to get over the hump. You get team, thatís faced adversity and figuring it out.


We haven't played anybody. Our strength of schedule is 220. Nobody we've played is in the top 100 on KenPom.

We better be in these games.
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M.D.W.S.T
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  Message Not Read  RE: State of the Program
   Posted: 1/10/2024 10:28:19 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
greencat wrote:


Vanderbilt transfers Quentin Millora-Brown and Trey Thomas both have scoring averages in double digits this season at mid-majors. You can bet that neither will have any trouble in the classroom. Maybe it's time to start going after the guys in the portal from the more academic schools. At least you know they won't be sitting on the bench in a wind-suit due to a murky academic situation.


I don't know anything about Quentin Millora-Brown and Trey Thomas, but if you think Vanderbilt's basketball team has to meet the same academic standard that the rest of Vanderbilt's student body meets, you haven't been paying attention to college sports for, I dunno, ever.

Here's Zion Williamson's class schedule at Duke: https://twitter.com/BarstoolU/status/1741296133412909428?...



I always got a chuckle at this when I was interning at Xavier. People have no idea what goes on behind the scenes to keep some of these guys eligible.


+1

Donít wanna turn this into another IJ thread, but yeah - itís remarkable. Even at OU.

Last Edited: 1/10/2024 10:28:49 PM by M.D.W.S.T

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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: State of the Program
   Posted: 1/11/2024 9:19:46 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
greencat wrote:


Vanderbilt transfers Quentin Millora-Brown and Trey Thomas both have scoring averages in double digits this season at mid-majors. You can bet that neither will have any trouble in the classroom. Maybe it's time to start going after the guys in the portal from the more academic schools. At least you know they won't be sitting on the bench in a wind-suit due to a murky academic situation.


I don't know anything about Quentin Millora-Brown and Trey Thomas, but if you think Vanderbilt's basketball team has to meet the same academic standard that the rest of Vanderbilt's student body meets, you haven't been paying attention to college sports for, I dunno, ever.

Here's Zion Williamson's class schedule at Duke: https://twitter.com/BarstoolU/status/1741296133412909428?...



I don't know a great deal about Trey Thomas academically except he was a sociology major at VU. But Q Millora Brown was a transfer from Rice to VU and was working on a master's in mechanical engineering at VU including working in the Laser Diagnostics of Combustion laboratory.

When Eddie Fogler was coaching VU, the entire team once made the dean's list.

Maybe that's why guys like Zion Williamson don't go there.


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BobcatSports
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  Message Not Read  RE: State of the Program
   Posted: 1/11/2024 5:06:14 PM 
Thereís no mystery here, itís a recruiting issue,both from HS and the portal. Itís a roster comprised of 5-6 smallish below average shooting guards with a SF pressed into a PF role which he is physically not built for. The bench playing behind the said out of position PF, is an individual with bad hands, bad feet and at times seems challenged to walk and chew gum at the same time.Not the least bit surprised by the results to date.This may be one of the weakest overall rosters we have seen in a years. Not implying these kids donít play hard, I think they do. They just donít have the size and talent to match up with their opponents on most nights. This has all the makings of a lean year and Iíll be surprised if we make the ď3 days in ClevelandĒ this go round.
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ohiocatfan1
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  Message Not Read  RE: State of the Program
   Posted: 1/12/2024 2:36:07 PM 
shabamon wrote:
I'm not going to make conclusions on the program overall based on games this season, but I will say I think we are seeing the effects of not going into the season with a full deck.

The AJ Brown injury sucks, but injuries happen to every program in one way or another. They can be season-ending surgery or they can be temporary within the season like with Miles. Just have to weather it and work to build depth at the position.

You want to redshirt a true freshman because they are just not physically ready? Ok, I can accept that. Even in transfer world, doing what's right for the player I think will ultimately solidify your reputation when you go recruiting. Let's limit that to one case a year.

We are currently not using one scholarship. Yes, I know we tried and failed with several portal prospects and we did extend offers to freshmen in the class of 2023, most importantly big men, but once Jaylen Carey signed with JMU two Novembers ago, it sure seemed like we had nothing left. No other prospects, no late bloomers, no JUCOs. zip.

The IJ Ezuma situation is unacceptable. We are not owed an explanation why he's not dressing, but we are staring down two straight seasons of street clothes and so we're told last year was NOT due to injury. That's a problem. He was offered a scholarship in exchange for helping the program win basketball games. We can't be carrying a healthy player (who once started in a rivalry game as a true freshman) for two years and he doesn't even dress.



Ezuma is off limits on this forum. I was all but run out of town for even beginning to question what his situation is.

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: State of the Program
   Posted: 1/12/2024 2:46:30 PM 
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
shabamon wrote:
I'm not going to make conclusions on the program overall based on games this season, but I will say I think we are seeing the effects of not going into the season with a full deck.

The AJ Brown injury sucks, but injuries happen to every program in one way or another. They can be season-ending surgery or they can be temporary within the season like with Miles. Just have to weather it and work to build depth at the position.

You want to redshirt a true freshman because they are just not physically ready? Ok, I can accept that. Even in transfer world, doing what's right for the player I think will ultimately solidify your reputation when you go recruiting. Let's limit that to one case a year.

We are currently not using one scholarship. Yes, I know we tried and failed with several portal prospects and we did extend offers to freshmen in the class of 2023, most importantly big men, but once Jaylen Carey signed with JMU two Novembers ago, it sure seemed like we had nothing left. No other prospects, no late bloomers, no JUCOs. zip.

The IJ Ezuma situation is unacceptable. We are not owed an explanation why he's not dressing, but we are staring down two straight seasons of street clothes and so we're told last year was NOT due to injury. That's a problem. He was offered a scholarship in exchange for helping the program win basketball games. We can't be carrying a healthy player (who once started in a rivalry game as a true freshman) for two years and he doesn't even dress.



Ezuma is off limits on this forum. I was all but run out of town for even beginning to question what his situation is.



It's the single most discussed topic, and one with broad consensus. There's an entire thread dedicated to it and multiple posts in every game thread about it.
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GraffZ06
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  Message Not Read  RE: State of the Program
   Posted: 1/13/2024 3:30:55 PM 
I'll say this, 16 games into the season I didn't expect our leading scorer to be Shereef Mitchell.

He was supposed to be our backup PG.

Goes to show how well this season has gone, and just how much less than expected we've gotten from Hunter, AJ Brown (injuries have derailed), Clayton (dude needs to shoot the ball more - he's by FAR our most efficient scorer) and Miles.

Last Edited: 1/13/2024 3:31:23 PM by GraffZ06

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