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Topic:  RE: Wrestling program?

Topic:  RE: Wrestling program?
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rpbobcat
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Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
Post Count: 3,503

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  Message Not Read  RE: Wrestling program?
   Posted: 8/5/2023 4:36:34 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

The doctor who made the statement calling the behavior excessive was also a college wrestler, as stated by the OUPD. I'm not following how "excessive but not egregious" means there is no "there there", especially when coupled with the fact that it seems the assistant coach in question left the program.

Meanwhile, rpbobcat's stated that he doesn't know what is meant by excessive, posited that this is a conspiracy to get rid of the wrestling program, and determined -- despite his acknowledged lack of information -- that the wrestler's character is questionable solely because he transferred. In fact, rpbobcat also posted rumors here that make this seem much worse -- namely that the wrestler who was injured had gotten in a fight uptown and was paired with a coach in practice as a form of discipline. If that's true, that is bad, right? An employee of the University physically punished a player and it resulted in an injury, and a doctor/former wrestler called it excessive.
.

That's basically all we know -- and some of that's just rumor that rpbobcat heard. I don't see how anybody can interpret that as there being no "there there." There's certainly risk of a lawsuit, given the doctor's statement alone. If it's true this was a punishment, someone should be fired.

I agree with rpbobcat that the University should provide and update and a statement. But it's far from clear to me that there is nothing to this, and that rpbobcat wrestled for OU 50 years ago doesn't magically make him a witness.


I wish you wouldn't take my comments out of context,or just make things up.

What I posted were comments on the InterMat wrestling site.
If you want to classify that as "rumors" so be it.

Also,please show me any post where I said I wrestled for O.U.

I've posted a number of times that I played soccer for O.U.,when they had
D1 men's soccer.
I transferred to FDU and wrestled D1 there.

I also don't understand what difference it makes when I wrestled.
The sport hasn't changed .

Its obvious you and I will never agree on anything concerning this,except that
O.U. should issue a statement on this.

But since they haven't said anything since day 1,I wouldn't hold my breath.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 3,280

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  Message Not Read  RE: Wrestling program?
   Posted: 8/7/2023 10:53:54 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:


I wish you wouldn't take my comments out of context,or just make things up.

What I posted were comments on the InterMat wrestling site.
If you want to classify that as "rumors" so be it.


I'm not trying to take anything out of context and I don't think I've made anything up. I called what them "rumors" based on this statement from you:

rpbobcat wrote:

According to the most recent posts on InterMat Wrestling from last night and this morning , and what I've heard from people in Athens, a member of the team was getting into trouble (fights) in bars uptown the night before a practice.


What's inaccurate about calling posts from a wrestling message board and what you've "heard from people in Athens" rumors?

rpbobcat wrote:

Also,please show me any post where I said I wrestled for O.U.

I've posted a number of times that I played soccer for O.U.,when they had
D1 men's soccer.
I transferred to FDU and wrestled D1 there.

I also don't understand what difference it makes when I wrestled.
The sport hasn't changed .


Apologies -- I don't really know your backstory; didn't know you didn't graduate from OU, and just assumed that when OCF said you wrestled in college it was at OU.

And my point isn't that the sport's changed. It's that you weren't present and don't know what happened at the practice. That you wrestled doesn't make the statement "excessive but not egregious" any more clear, as you yourself pointed out. You don't know what's meant by that and how to interpret excessive, and wrestling at FDU doesn't change that.

rpbobcat wrote:

Its obvious you and I will never agree on anything concerning this,except that
O.U. should issue a statement on this.

But since they haven't said anything since day 1,I wouldn't hold my breath.


All I've said is that I don't understand how you're reaching your conclusion and explained why. You and OCF have decided that somehow that's dishonest and that I should defer to your expertise.

We don't know what happened at the practice, and your frustration here -- which is justified -- is due to lack of information. But it's that very lack of information that makes it hard to draw a conclusion one way or the other.



Last Edited: 8/7/2023 10:56:26 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 9,454

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  Message Not Read  RE: Wrestling program?
   Posted: 8/7/2023 2:02:26 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


I don't think the OUPD statement tells us one way or another, honestly.

What we know from it is that the OUPD interviewed witnesses, gathered medical records, and still felt there was enough there to share their findings with a doctor. His conclusion was "excessive but not egregious" and the OUPD's determination was there wasn't enough evidence to pursue criminal charges.

"Excessive but not egregious" is not an exoneration, and is not a conclusion that strikes me as "no there, there." The conclusion seems to be that the coaching staff was excessive, and people were injured. But that excess didn't rise to criminality.

If you couple that with the rumors you posted above, it sounds an awful lot like a coach physically disciplined a wrestler for getting in a fight uptown, and that the wrestler was injured in the process. "Excessive but not egregious" seems to actually verify that it happened.

Do you think that should be allowed?

rpbobcat wrote:

You reference the Asst. Coach leaving the program.
But apparently the kid (or his parents) who made the accusation also left the program and transferred from O.U.


I'm not following. Why is the fact that the kid who made the report left the program relevant?

I'm just wondering if it was the Assistant Coach whose behavior was excessive, and that he was asked to leave the program.

Edit: I'll also just add -- I went to the wrestling message board you mentioned and saw that the OU Wrestling team's really frustrated on Twitter. Totally get that. But one thing that I don't understand: this all happened in practice, right? Presumably the wrestling team was all there. It seems super strange to me that none of them have said outright "nothing happened." That seems like a pretty weird gap here. They have every right to be frustrated about the length of this, and not having coaches in place -- but it definitely seems strange to me that nobody on the team is saying "I was there, here's what happened, and it wasn't a big deal."




I think the O.U.P.D.'s statement says it all.

The kid and or his parents wanted criminal charges filed.

The fact that they weren't is an indication that there was no there there.

I would also like to know what is meant by "excessive" ?

As I've said,I wrestled D1 in college.

I had an asst. or head coach as a partner a number of times.

Coaches go much harder.

Same thing, when I was getting ready for a tournament the coaches would
have me wrestle a new ,fresh partner every period.

Is that excessive ?

Sorry,but in my opinion ,the kid transferring is an indicator of
"character".

As far as the team making statements,I'm sure it was like the 110 situation.
You are told not to make public comments.

I would presume O.U.P.D interviewed the team.
Otherwise how could the form a conclusion.




When all this went down and mommy and daddy got started, they did NOT know what happened before that practice! They quickly found out when they went to the police, and other aspects of the evening before came out. This is a simple case of parents who thought little Johnny or lil' Timmy could do nothing wrong. Wanted to blame others!
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 3,280

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Wrestling program?
   Posted: 8/7/2023 3:10:06 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:

When all this went down and mommy and daddy got started, they did NOT know what happened before that practice! They quickly found out when they went to the police, and other aspects of the evening before came out. This is a simple case of parents who thought little Johnny or lil' Timmy could do nothing wrong. Wanted to blame others!


Does this mean that what happened at the practice was a punishment?

If an Assistant Coach injured a player at practice and was doing so was deemed "excessive but not egregious" by a medical professional, and the student got injured the University is almost certainly exposed to a lawsuit.
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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 9,454

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Wrestling program?
   Posted: 8/7/2023 4:20:16 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:

When all this went down and mommy and daddy got started, they did NOT know what happened before that practice! They quickly found out when they went to the police, and other aspects of the evening before came out. This is a simple case of parents who thought little Johnny or lil' Timmy could do nothing wrong. Wanted to blame others!


Does this mean that what happened at the practice was a punishment?

If an Assistant Coach injured a player at practice and was doing so was deemed "excessive but not egregious" by a medical professional, and the student got injured the University is almost certainly exposed to a lawsuit.


NOPE
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