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Topic: RE: NIL and recruiting

Topic: RE: NIL and recruiting

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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
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RE: NIL and recruiting

Posted: 12/15/2022 4:49:28 PM

spongeBOB CATpants wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

spongeBOB CATpants wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

spongeBOB CATpants wrote:

Interesting stuff coming out of Columbus. Apparently OSU admins are freaking out because the SEC is crushing them in terms of NIL support.

Supposedly the Buckeyes lost a 5 star recruit because their offer of $500k was not even in the same ballpark as Georgia's offer of $800k per year.

Heard on 97.1 the Fan this morning that the top NIL group in Columbus only has $3 million in the bank while Florida has raised over $30 million.

You know its bad when OSU is leaking competing offers to the local media and Gene Smith releasing a public statement essentially shaming fans for not contributing enough.

In the meantime, everybody send your thoughts and prayers to High Street that they'll get through this tough time and that the NCAA makes it more fair for the Buckeyes.

The SEC is crushing everyone in NIL money. OSU, thought their reputation as an NFL factory would be enough, it's not enough. What's funny, is some of these kids will take a pay cut with a 1st year NFL contract. As for the NFL making things "more fair" for the Buckeyes, that's not going to happen. The NCAA has nothing to do with this NIL situation.

So is there literally nothing the NCAA can do, whatsoever, to limit or alter the current state of affairs as it relates to NIL?

NIL is law! Nothing the NCAA can do unless an NIL contract was written as �performance� based. Which no one is dumb enough to do that.

Why not performance based?

Because then, it is no longer a name, image or likeness. That is against NCAA rules and illegal. NIL is codedfied just as it sounds. They can profit from their Name, Image and Likeness

BillyTheCat
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RE: NIL and recruiting

Posted: 12/15/2022 4:52:14 PM

mf279801 wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Universities running outright pro programs would test many legal waters, including the non-profit status of the sponsoring institutions. Some have pointed to the Green Bay Packers, but while a non-profit corporation, they are not chartered as an education institution. Lawyers and courts would have a heyday with all the possible rulings and counter rulings of say, the O$U professional football team, sponsored by the Wexler Foundation.

This keeps getting brought up, but doesn�t really make sense to me, so perhaps you (or someone else on here) could explain: most of the major athletic universities are public, state owned institutions (right?), so how is their non-profit tax status going to be at risk, as a state owned entity? I don�t see the IRS, nor state departments of revenue, rolling up to tax operating revenues from state universities anymore than i see them coming to tax the state highway department. What am i missing? Or is the issue more that people wouldn�t be able to make tax deductible donations?

(Clearly this question excludes private schools, your Notre Dames and Miamis, etc.)

It doesn�t. By law a state agency can�t be taxed.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: NIL and recruiting

Posted: 12/15/2022 7:42:23 PM

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-15/ncaa-v...

Seems relevant.

OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
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RE: NIL and recruiting

Posted: 12/15/2022 10:52:47 PM

mf279801 wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Universities running outright pro programs would test many legal waters, including the non-profit status of the sponsoring institutions. Some have pointed to the Green Bay Packers, but while a non-profit corporation, they are not chartered as an educational institution. Lawyers and courts would have a heyday with all the possible rulings and counter rulings of say, the O$U professional football team, sponsored by the Wexler Foundation.

I think the same problem would ensue if ODNR or ODOT started to run a pro sports franchise, but it's even more germane for an academic institution. I'll admit this is novel ground, but can you cite another time in history when a state-supported university or state agency ran a for-profit business?

The closest thing that I can think of would be the university innovation center, which has spun off for-profit businesses such as Diagnostic Hybrids (now part of Quidel), but as I understand it, there were all kinds of legal safeguards put in place to distance the university from the profit side of these businesses while they were still a part of the innovation center and before they severed the umbilical cord from the university.

For instance, I believe that these incubator businesses, kept their profits and then paid the university for the use of its facilities on a rental basis. In some cases where university professors were also employees of the new developing business it got very complicated. The university claimed some percentage of funds that came in from patents these professors secured, but not from their work at the innovation center but due to their employment as professors. Once the business was spun off, the university continued to receive a percentage of these patent royalty payments, but the university did not receive any further payments directly from the new private company, except the occasional corporate gift, which is a whole different can of worms. This stuff keeps a whole lot of university and contract lawyers very busy.

So, I suppose the university could spin off the Athletic Department, have them pay the university for such things as the rental of the stadium or field house. The AD's office would of course then be responsible for coaches salary and other expenses. The university would no longer be able to us student fees to support athletics. This model would only work at maybe 20 institutions in the U.S., including the Big Farm in Columbus. I don't think that this is a road we want to travel.

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

BillyTheCat
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RE: NIL and recruiting

Posted: 12/16/2022 1:57:15 PM

OCF some Departments are separate corporations. But the fact that they make millions is irrelevant to being a non-profit. Many non-profits make millions. OSU, Bama and all the others reinvest the money back into the program, they do not dole out the revenue, which legally keeps their status.

colobobcat66
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Location: Watching the bobcats run outside my window., CO
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RE: NIL and recruiting

Posted: 12/22/2022 7:14:07 PM

This blows my mind. There is a site out there -ON3TRANSFERPORTAL-that suggests the NIL value of players in the portal. Lots are zero and many are 30-40 K, I saw one at 600+ K. It may be crap, but it�s there for all to see.

Bobcat1996
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Member Since: 1/2/2017
Post Count: 658

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RE: NIL and recruiting

Posted: 12/22/2022 8:17:09 PM

"When state laws and the NCAA made it legal last year for college athletes to profit off their name, image and likeness, a University of Miami supporter fired one of the first attention-getting shots.

Dan Lambert offered $500 a month to any Hurricanes scholarship football player in exchange for promoting the American Top Team mixed martial arts academy he founded, an annual outlay of more than $500,000 if everyone opted in.

Now Texas Tech football players can sign up to make four times that amount.

The Matador Club, a non-profit collective organized by Texas Tech donors, plans this week to sign 100 Red Raiders football players each to one-year, $25,000 contracts."

I think the above is what BTC was talking about.

Last Edited: 12/22/2022 8:17:53 PM by Bobcat1996

Ted Thompson
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RE: NIL and recruiting

Posted: 12/22/2022 9:07:17 PM

The 1804 Sport Collective has launched with a focus on Ohio men's basketball. Blueprint Sports is assisting. Fans can can make tax-deductible contributions.

"The college basketball landscape is changing, and our mindset must change with it." - @JeffBoals https://t.co/u4kNz59TLN pic.twitter.com/07WAW2nZoq
— Pete Nakos (@Pete_Nakos96) December 22, 2022

Follow Ohio Football recruiting on the BobcatAttack.com football recruiting database.

BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
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RE: NIL and recruiting

Posted: 12/22/2022 9:16:19 PM

Ted Thompson wrote:

The 1804 Sport Collective has launched with a focus on Ohio men's basketball. Blueprint Sports is assisting. Fans can can make tax-deductible contributions.

"The college basketball landscape is changing, and our mindset must change with it." - https://twitter.com/JeffBoals?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfwhttps://... https://t.co/07WAW2nZoq&mdash ; Pete Nakos (@Pete_Nakos96) https://twitter.com/Pete_Nakos96/status/16060238854422568...

OCF is about to burn his bobcat gear now that OHIO University is venturing into the world of professional sports.

OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: NIL and recruiting

Posted: 12/22/2022 9:47:28 PM

BillyTheCat wrote:

Ted Thompson wrote:

OCF is about to burn his bobcat gear now that OHIO University is venturing into the world of professional sports.

Nope, I don't like it, but as long as it's still legal and the system we've got, I'll go along and might donate a little, but I not a fan of the whole concept, and I think as I've posted elsewhere it'll eventually go the way of the leather helmet. I don't think it's sustainable in the long run as function of higher education, perhaps hire education! ;-) I guess my view is I want OHIO to do as well as it can in the current landscape, even though I think it is very flawed. Kind of like the congressman who is against pork and votes to lessen the total amount of pork anytime he can, but when the pork is going around he makes sure that his district gets its share!

mf279801
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Location: Atlanta, GA
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RE: NIL and recruiting

Posted: 12/23/2022 8:54:02 AM

OhioCatFan wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

Ted Thompson wrote:

OCF is about to burn his bobcat gear now that OHIO University is venturing into the world of professional sports.

The most questionable thing here, from a regulatory perspective, is the �tax deductible� part. That�s what is and is going to continue to draw scrutiny

Edit to add: https://www.extrapointsmb.com/ncaa-nil-irs-taxes-collecti... /

Last Edited: 12/23/2022 8:57:06 AM by mf279801

BillyTheCat
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RE: NIL and recruiting

Posted: 12/23/2022 9:13:17 AM

mf279801 wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

Ted Thompson wrote:

OCF is about to burn his bobcat gear now that OHIO University is venturing into the world of professional sports.

That onus is on the athlete to report their income. Not the schools:

"I'm at the NCAA Convention, and I'm talking a bunch of SAAC (Student Athlete Advisory Council) athletes, and I ask them if they're disclosing deals. And they're like..., 'No.' And when I ask why not, the answer blew my mind. They said that if we disclose the deals, we'll have to pay taxes on them. If we don't disclose, we don't have to pay taxes on them. And that broke my heart."

mf279801
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Location: Atlanta, GA
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RE: NIL and recruiting

Posted: 12/23/2022 10:44:37 AM

BillyTheCat wrote:

mf279801 wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

Ted Thompson wrote:

OCF is about to burn his bobcat gear now that OHIO University is venturing into the world of professional sports.

I was speaking to the attempt of NIL collectives to structure themselves as charities so that they can market themselves to would-be donors as being a deductible charitable contribution

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: NIL and recruiting

Posted: 12/23/2022 10:53:00 AM

BillyTheCat wrote:

mf279801 wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

Ted Thompson wrote:

OCF is about to burn his bobcat gear now that OHIO University is venturing into the world of professional sports.

Sounds like a lot of college athletes are angling to be GOP nominee for President.

Last Edited: 12/23/2022 10:53:16 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

Campus Flow
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RE: NIL and recruiting

Posted: 12/23/2022 3:00:20 PM

The final results are not in because of the transfer portal is still going but tracking the early returns thus far says its pretty even across the G5 conferences taking the 5th best recruiting class of ever conference. From 24/7 sports.

P5 classes:5th rated
SEC 268.95 (Oklahoma)
Big10 232.64 (Maryland)
ACC 212.83 (Pittsburgh)
PAC12 197.73 (Stanford)
Big12 183.21 (TCU)

G5 classes:5th rated
AAC 160.36 (Tulane)
MWC 149.44 (Nevada)
MAC 146.52 (Northern Ill.)
SBC 141.24 (Louisiana-Monroe)
CUSA 110.23 (Middle Tennessee)

This is considering every conference with its 2025 lineup in place. P5 membership continues to be an important draw as you can see from the numbers. Big 12 is taking a 15 point cut, PAC 12 a 12 point cut and AAC an 11 point cut with their reduced lineups. Big Ten is up 13 points with USC/UCLA but SEC is only up 4 points with UT/OU because they already have such a high average recruiting class.

Big Ten becoming stronger is good for the MAC's ratings since they play each other and its bad for the MWC which also could lose San Diego St to the PAC-12. AAC is going to be hurt long term with the addition of more southern teams but SMU individually has the positioning to compete in the playoff.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

BillyTheCat
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RE: NIL and recruiting

Posted: 12/24/2022 10:55:39 AM

mf279801 wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

mf279801 wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

Ted Thompson wrote:

OCF is about to burn his bobcat gear now that OHIO University is venturing into the world of professional sports.

I was speaking to the attempt of NIL collectives to structure themselves as charities so that they can market themselves to would-be donors as being a deductible charitable contribution

That is allowed, no different than any other non-profit that pays it's people.

crossczech
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RE: NIL and recruiting

Posted: 12/25/2022 4:59:29 AM

It's been a minute since on BA....excuse me if I'm out of my lane.

I think NIL's are overall a good thing but are largely overrated. OU is already in top 30 (above many larger schools such as Auburn) for athletes with NIL's but almost all are with Barstool (coincidence??). My son had a former teammate that was one of the first NIL's, also with Barstool, and it was maybe $100 worth of apparel for mention on his social media....I think this is the usual offer.

My thought is OU should actually have an advantage over most other schools being in a college town. There is much more value to a business in Athens getting an NIL with a Bobcat athlete than, for example, a Buffalo business signing a Bull athlete. In this example, the small market may actually have the advantage.

Going back to Barstool I seen in other threads questioning their sponsored bowl. At least from their perspective, Ohio is probably at the top of their list. We are high on their list of number of athletes with NIL's. Other big reason is addition of sports betting in Ohio......Barstool Sportsbook is available in a few states, currently including the host state Arizona and Wyoming with Ohio being added

BillyTheCat
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RE: NIL and recruiting

Posted: 12/25/2022 11:32:16 AM

OCF, I think you will find this site interesting, especially the links to every schools on NIL fundraising arm.

https://www.on3.com/nil/collectives /

Campus Flow
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RE: NIL and recruiting

Posted: 12/25/2022 12:50:47 PM

The NIL collectives IMO are an abuse of the principal of NIL which is sponsorships. It should be just B2S (Business to Student). Its a real problem because it is redirecting money that would be supporting athletic department operations from individuals is moving directly to the players as the perception as that is more important for competing. Then athletic departments are going to dip increasingly into student fees to fund operations. Also if it was B2S a lot of the players would walk in with deals as a rising HS senior and not have to rely necessarily on what the university deals could pay. Their could be mismatches that way such as popular HS quarterback that isn't P5 athletic material. Expanded playoff money might have to flow to the students.

The trickle down effect to the MAC. The Big Ten as the richest conference going forward might mean nobody is transferring out of it. That means smaller Big Ten recruiting classes and more 3 star players available in its backyard for the MAC which could offset demographic declines. Other regional P5 programs like UC, WVU, Pitt, Syracuse I anticipate hitting Florida hard which will hurt the AAC as having access to Florida and Texas recruits is for them an equalizer. While the MAC NIL opportunities aren't going to be as large as other conferences they won't be as performance sensitive either. Texas A&M boosters might give out 50 million one year and if they don't like the direction of the coaching staff 10 million the next. Then with the donations not flowing directly to the athletic department, the AD doesn't have the money to fire the coach and the program goes into a vicious downward spiral.

Is the future going to be that 10 million dollar head coaches go the way of the dinosaur if the key is a top financial package for the players? Purdue with the advantage of having the Big Ten conference machinery can say they don't contend for conference titles anyway but its 250k minimum for any Big Ten player so they'll just be fine with paying 2 million for the HC. Then since nobody cares about the Purdue football team anyways the 7 corporations that support it give their regular annual donations regardless.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

OhioCatFan
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RE: NIL and recruiting

Posted: 12/26/2022 11:21:41 AM

BillyTheCat wrote:

OCF, I think you will find this site interesting, especially the links to every schools on NIL fundraising arm.

https://www.on3.com/nil/collectives /

Thanks, I'll take a look.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: NIL and recruiting

Posted: 12/26/2022 2:15:06 PM

Campus Flow wrote:

The NIL collectives IMO are an abuse of the principal of NIL which is sponsorships. It should be just B2S (Business to Student).

A couple of quick points:

1) You and a few others have noted the "spirit" of the NIL. I'm not sure I understand what's meant by that. The NIL isn't a single law or policy, it's a collection of many implemented by states. And those are the laws that these collectives are following. From what I can tell, the NIL isn't really a cohesive thing -- I'm not sure how one would define the "spirit" of a policy that results from so many disparate state laws. What's the spirit of the NIL? You seem to think it relates only to sponsorships, but that feels far too narrow

2) The second clause in the Ohio NIL law states that schools "Prevent a student-athlete who resides in this state and participates in intercollegiate athletics from obtaining professional representation in relation to contracts or legal matters regarding opportunities to be compensated for use of the student-athlete�s name, image, or likeness;". How do these collectives differ from professional representation? And the law certainly doesn't suggest that the relationship should be B2S -- in fact, it explicitly carves out the right of students to obtain professional representation.

Campus Flow wrote:

Is the future going to be that 10 million dollar head coaches go the way of the dinosaur if the key is a top financial package for the players?

This would strike me as an equitable and correct outcome. College coaching salaries are as high as they are -- and have grown as fast as they have -- because it's a huge industry without a free market dynamic at play anywhere but coaches salaries. So the money goes to the one place it can go.

BillyTheCat
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RE: NIL and recruiting

Posted: 12/27/2022 9:14:09 AM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Campus Flow wrote:

The NIL collectives IMO are an abuse of the principal of NIL which is sponsorships. It should be just B2S (Business to Student).

Campus Flow wrote:

Is the future going to be that 10 million dollar head coaches go the way of the dinosaur if the key is a top financial package for the players?

Excellent point. As to the point made earlier by someone else, about facilities, well you really don't need these palaces that double as locker rooms. NFL facilities can't compare to college facilities, they don't have to! It's the salary that attracts them, not the size of the indoor facility.

Alan Swank
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RE: NIL and recruiting

Posted: 12/27/2022 11:13:44 AM

I wonder what the kids a local schools would think if they knew that the athletes who come to their schools for "community engagement" are now getting paid for it.

From the BPS website:

BPS Foundation, a Section 501(c)(3) organization, educates, encourages, and assists athletes in their efforts to engage with the local community through charitable causes. BPS Foundation lifts awareness of what it means to perform in a highly competitive environment by mobilizing collegiate athletes to help teach how hard work, discipline, focus, and continued education can make the young athlete�s dreams become a reality. BPS Foundation empowers these athletes to channel their energy for a common goal: to make the community where they live and play a better place.

Campus Flow
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RE: NIL and recruiting

Posted: 12/27/2022 11:17:44 AM

BillyTheCat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Campus Flow wrote:

The NIL collectives IMO are an abuse of the principal of NIL which is sponsorships. It should be just B2S (Business to Student).

Campus Flow wrote:

Is the future going to be that 10 million dollar head coaches go the way of the dinosaur if the key is a top financial package for the players?

Unless its something where the department is operationally deficient. NFL franchises aren't also in the business of competing 16-18 sports and close to 400 student athletes with walk-ons included.

On NIL its IMO it would be better for the industry if it was more restrictively defined as B2S to curtail individuals redirecting donations away from the mission of the athletic department. It wouldn't forbade it but would make it less convenient. The interpretation of the NIL ruling is what it is though.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

BillyTheCat
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RE: NIL and recruiting

Posted: 12/27/2022 11:31:31 AM

Alan Swank wrote:

You really think kids care? Seen Archie Griffin visit many schools for $3k and deliver great talks, and not one HS kid cared.

In regards to others, this entire thing is hilarious in the fact so many of you cheered this on when it was getting ready happened, but ignored people when they said be careful what you wish for.

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